Wyldsong

Frank is an awesome marksman, and Wolvie has the speed and skill to give Spidey a hell of a battle. If they play it smart, I could see them pulling some wins.

Who takes the majority? Don't know, but it could be close. Web spam, spider-sense, spider-fu and so on make this a difficult fight for the team.

@thenaughtytitan:

Lol...about what I expected from you bud. No worries, just move on from here=)

On this, we may have to disagree brother=)

Though I think even at base, unless someone provides something mind blowing for Vamp, that it would be a good fight. Adding levels of Other, I believe would tip the scales.

@thenaughtytitan said:

@wyldsong: Redundant = unneccesary, we both agree he would win so why are you talking to me?

Here is the sword that apparently "dropped" him:

He pulls it out and snaps it, this did not slow deathstroke down, frank is outclassed in every single and you making up that a sword "dropped" slade does not change that.

Man this crop of young bucks that has appeared while I was away is just full of piss and vinegar, aren't they=P

No offense bud, but back off on the tone and attitude. I said, if memory serves. So yes, DS was not dropped, but thanks for finally brining the scan that proves the armor is not invulnerable. Redundancy, seems to be a necessary fact of life when discussing with you, since you are still telling me Frank is outclassed, and I already told you Frank would lose to DS. I don't mean to be passive-aggressive with that, but you aren't making it easy my friend.

So, I will reiterate this one tiny point you seem to be ignoring. Let's review a few unedited statements of mine:

Personally, I'd back DS

Again, I still think DS takes it

I already stated DS would win

And again, just to clarify, since there seems to be some bit of confusion on your part, I have already stated 2 times over in posts to you that I'd back DS and DS takes it. This post adds time number 3 that I have stated it (see bullet point number one), and I'll add time number four for good measure, I think DS still takes it.

What is Frank going to do? Probably lose, since I already stated that I would back DS for this. You want questions answered in regards to Frank, and his chances in this fight, ask his supporters. I am supplying information in regards to his armor and the fact that he was temporarily dropped, to keep things in perspective, regardless of who I choose to back.

So, in regards to this statement of yours:

frank is outclassed in every single and you making up that a sword "dropped" slade does not change that.

I don't care what you perceive my statements as changing or not. I already stated DS takes this. I never stated otherwise, and your obsession with trying to peg me as a Frank supporter or even trying to state he isn't outclassed is something that is truly baffling.

The armor has weak points, and DS can in fact be damaged, sub feat or no. Anyone coming into this thread and reading this, needs to be able to make an informed decision, and just showing the feat of the sub, leaves the wrong impression. If you had shown the sword feat to begin with, that would have been a fair, and unbiased thing to do. I simply added to the discussion, to offer the broader point of view on the capabilities of the armor, which is the fair, and unbiased thing to do, regardless of who I back for the fight.

Was I wrong on the sword dropping Slade in that scene? Sure, I am big boy, and I can admit where my memory failed me. I wasn't making things up, that was pure memory failure which I stated was feasible right off the bat (I did say, "if memory serves" and you did not bother to correct me, you the Slade "expert" who took a post or two arguing with me instead of providing that right off the bat...and would rather spend time complaining about redundancy...sigh...)

So, can you open your eyes, and just simply see that I am backing Slade, and not Punisher, and that the sword feat was strangely forgotten in your assessment on the capabilities of his armor? You know, there are ways to have these conversations without the animosity=)

Does Slade win? Yes he does, on that we agree. The armor has proven weaknesses, on that we don't have to agree, but you showed the proof of it, so why would we disagree? My memory of the sword instance is faulty, on that I freely admit, but it did pierce the armor and was not in a spot that would equate to a one hit kill.

So, why am I taking so much time with you here if I don't fully care how you perceive my statements and such? Because, I am generally known as a peaceful type, and am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, what with the growing pains and such of getting involved in the community and so on. What I will tell you is, that the whole business of the pseudo-insulting tone, what with the "redundancy" talk is really a little silly and uncalled for. Did I come at you with such when I first started posting? Reviewing those first posts, it would seem I didn't. You aren't going to win many people over with such a thing. So what, people aren't always agree with you. Drop your information, any proof you have, and then move on if they don't agree. The thing to bear in mind in this instance is though, we don't disagree on the outcome, which makes this even a bit sillier than it needs to be.

Take it or leave it bud. There is no reason for the un-pleasantries.

@44orhsaj said:

@wyldsong: OK I just read the issues. I think its possible it has something to do with the inheritors. After Kaine killed him the first time this was his reaction:

The other issue I have is this form doesn't have a lot of showings so I am not sure how much faster and stronger he gets in this state. He clearly wasn't at the level he was at when he fought Morlun and Daemos. Yea he held his own with an inheritor but this inheritor is featless I believe, and the later caption even says Jennix isn't as strong as his brothers. Kaine killed him yea, but even when he wasn't transformed at all he was able to hurt him due to the other (where as Ben broke his knuckles). So I don't think this is the same as going full were-spider or that it makes a huge difference personally if he transforms to this state or not. If he goes to the state where he fought morlun, Daemos, and Solus or even the state he was in when he fought lobos he stomps but I don't think he will go that far. Its even stated Kaine was afraid of cutting loose. I think he was doing it here because he had to. All though either way I don't think it makes a huge difference.

I can see what you are saying, but I think it is being painted as less to do with the Inheritors per se, and more about being more willing to cut loose, and giving in more fully to the Other thanks to how current events have affected him. Prior to this series, Kaine was more restrained with it, but in recent times, his stance is such that he is more apt and prone to cut loose, and while that is mainly to do with what has happened to him, going with the idea of the most current version, that is the mindset he is in.

@44orhsaj said:

@wyldsong said:

@44orhsaj said:

@wyldsong: I am behind on the scarlet spiders series but the only reason he went full other mode was because Ben Reily died. He did shoot spikes out (which seems to be a result of his other powers improving? I was confused when that happened...) at Daemos but he never turned into a were-spider to my knowledge.

Basically Spider-Verse seems to have been reverting Kaine to pre-Scarlet Spider run levels of anger and self doubt. During the fight with the smart Inheritor (was it Daemos? -- sorry, their names are blurring together currently and I do not have my books here to look at to refresh my memory), I need to review exactly what was said, but there is talk about the Other coming out, as it is discovered that Kaine is housing the Other, even though he does not go for the full morph (like a partial morph). This was before the blacked out incident you are discussing.

Are you talking about this moment or something that happend in scarlet spiders?

Gallery

If your talking about scarlet spiders than give me a few minutes to catch up on that. All though I don't think he will go all were-spider and start rag dolling vamp like he did morlun. All though his new stinger (there stingers right?) could be used as a defence in melee I suppose. He could turn himself into a porcupine basically...Basically force vamp to keep his distance and toss his knives.

There is another moment (it was the fight with Jennix, he was the smart one, Daemos being the brutish one -- memory kicking in). I'll get you scans tomorrow if I can. It was the battle right before your blacked out instance happened. What that basically seems to be is different levels of accessing the Other. Like I said, with his character portrayal and basic decline in morals throughout, I tend to think he would go Other. Not right off the bat mind you, but if the foe seems superior (which I am not entirely convinced Vamp is).

@thenaughtytitan:

At this point your comments are just redundant, how does the punisher take him out? Deathstroke survived an exploding sub marine that was thrown on him, frank will not put him down. His healing factor does not need to be wolvie level, he still outclasses the punisher easily. I never said the armor was impervious, you thought that it would matter if his armor got breached when it does not, he heals. He will not need to heal because frank will not breach his armor. This fight is a mismatch....

Okay there bucko, that comment is starting off a bit rude, and there is no need, since we are having a civil conversation. Would you like a review of where we are?

1. I already stated DS would win.
2. You presented DS getting hit with a sub and mentioned his healing factor to show off durability, and I cited an instance where the armor has been pierced, has a weakness, and DS was temporarily dropped, just to keep the audience informed.
3. Healing factor is not the end all be all. The sword strike dropped him (if only for a bit), and without proven Wolvie levels of healing, there is nothing stopping him from getting dropped by someone with sufficient ability and knowledge. The sub feat is great, but the sword feat shows that the armor is not the end all, be all in a fight.
4. And again, just to clarify, since there seems to be some bit of confusion on your part, I have already stated 2 times over in posts to you that I'd back DS and DS takes it. This post adds time number 3 that I have stated it (see bullet point number one), and I'll add time number four for good measure, I think DS still takes it.

If I am being redundant, it is because points are being ignored or overlooked for the idea of, "OMG, a sub was dropped on him, what is Frank going to do?"

What is Frank going to do? Probably lose, since I already stated that I would back DS for this. You want questions answered in regards to Frank, and his chances in this fight, ask his supporters. I am supplying information in regards to his armor and the fact that he was temporarily dropped, to keep things in perspective, regardless of who I choose to back.

Basically Spider-Verse seems to have been reverting Kaine to pre-Scarlet Spider run levels of anger and self doubt. During the fight with the smart Inheritor (was it Daemos? -- sorry, their names are blurring together currently and I do not have my books here to look at to refresh my memory), I need to review exactly what was said, but there is talk about the Other coming out, as it is discovered that Kaine is housing the Other, even though he does not go for the full morph (like a partial morph). This was before the blacked out incident you are discussing.

Last time we shall Kaine, he was in a rage, and was shown steadily getting enraged far easier throughout the Spider-Verse story. I find it very easy to believe that he would go Other at this point. If we wind back the clock to his series, then maybe I could back him not going Other very easily, but as of Spider-Verse...

@thenaughtytitan said:

@wyldsong said:

@thenaughtytitan said:

Deathstroke survives having an exploding submarine dropped on him. I do not think frank could put him down. I am however going to provide a few more durability feats to support my stance.

Is able to tank and explosion and a building collapsing on him, him lifting up the rubble shows strength also.

All of these feats IMO show that slade is too durable to be put down by frank, castle will not have the firepower to put someone of such insane durability down.

This shows what Deathstroke can do with prep, in the scan above he gets a decoy "robot" to distract shade and he then cuts shades hand off. Deathstroke can use this in a fight against frank, frank will show his position thinking the decoy is slade and after that it will be night night for frank castle. Deathstroke has shown to be very intelligent in the new 52, he has been described as a tactical genius(on panel) and multiple times used his wits to deduce powers of people. He is a legitimate bullet timer and is too durable to be put down by castle. Once deathstroke find castle there is nothing stopping him from killing him.

@senglord

Personally, I'd back DS, but that armor has been pierced by a sword before. It seems to have weak points that can be breached.

It has been breached but he heals, deathstroke has a healing factor, it does not matter if frank pierces it.....

It could matter quite a bit. That sword strike actually dropped him for a short bit if memory serves. Anyone aware of a healing factor could make use of that. Again, I still think DS takes it, but his healing factor is not Wolvie level, and that armor isn't impervious.