Does anybody have any suggestions on how I could've played it differently and edged out the TP issue? Seems that was the nail in my coffin and attempted to counter the only way I could think of....open to any ways to improve
This will be spoiler blocked, as I am not stating the following to try and change the outcome of the votes of the CaV. I am simply showing different angles that could have been attacked/used.
Couple of things, for one, with the chi projection, Danny doesn't have to actively hit targets directly with chi. He can destroy the ground, create shockwaves, so forth and so on. He wouldn't have to do a direct attack, so there is no spiritual blocking if he used the chi to create a pure shockwave of force, which he has done...the shockwave isn't chi, and it isn't all that uncommon for him to do. Not to mention he can push chi through objects, so if the chi is running through say the ground and cracking and breaking it up, there really is no blocking that either.
As for the skill angle...it was brought up that since Bloodshot was trained in all Earthly martial arts, he could counter most of Danny's moves...but while Bloodshot may have known earthly martial arts, Danny learned all of the martial arts of K'un-Lun (which is another dimension entirely and not on Earth), and most of the Earth's martial arts, so honestly, there really is no chance that the Bloodshot side will not know the moves the Danny side is using, since most of his training and style is in the martial arts of a dimension that Bloodshot does have the training in.
Now, countering the TP...let's think of who Danny has faced. Danny has faced the likes of Spidey and Mr X. Danny actually has good showings against Spidey, so foes that know his moves and seem to be able to predict them (yes, Spidey can use spider-sense to predict a foes moves, that has been established)...that's not new to him. With his past experience, it wouldn't be all that hard for him to figure out someone is using a little something extra in a fight against him, not to mention he has the speed, skill, and experience to keep up with and tag the likes of Spidey. Him knowing a style to directly counter telepathy shows that he has experience with such. If the other side is constantly countering moves and reacts to everything he throws...he has the knowledge and experience to spot such.
Countering the stealth angle...Danny is proficient in fighting blind, and his senses are so acute, he could hear a girl sweat. Not to mention War Machine tried the invisibility thing on Danny, and it failed miserably.
The scan where Danny's perceptions were distorted...yeah Luke pointed out that it affected Danny to begin with, but Danny still fought through it, and won that fight. He took one hit that didn't drop him, and he won it while his perceptions were distorted, he was holding back, and Coleen was bloodlusted. Not to mention, if the effect is a telepathic effect (I cannot remember exactly at this point what it was), Danny has used his chi to free himself from telepathic powers before.
So, those are my thoughts from the Danny side, angles that could have been covered differently or touched upon, which may have provided a different outcome for the CaV itself. I think you put up a good fight bro, I just don't think you were looking at it creatively enough this particular instance. There were a few angles that if you could have hit them more thoroughly and earlier on, you might have had this one on lockdown. You are a still a hell of a debater, and are a class act, and are one of the upper crust of debaters on this site. This is just a very rare instance that you fell short, and I hate, hate, hate telling you that bro.
Oh yeah...one more minor thing...
You had a scan credited to Shang Chi...that was the Cat he was fighting, not Shang...if you got the scan from a certain respect thread, they have it labeled wrong...
So now, @lukehero, one of these days after I knock out a few CaVs I have promised others, you'll get your one on one rematch. Some thoughts to give to you...formatting of your responses for one. You did way too much responding in the quote boxes, and I saw way too many of his scans and such being re-posted. In some CaVs, that could be the difference between winning and losing if it is a tight race. Clean up your responses, and use as little of his actual post as you can. We read his post once, we don't want to read it all over again brother man.
You did good in finding weak spots in his defense, and you went after them. That being said, be careful in using some of your opponents scans against them. A very glaring example is in the "Mindstorm" scan, you used that as proof that Danny could be messed with mentally, but that was a fight Danny won, even though his perceptions were distorted...so it's less proof that he can be mind f#ck3d, and more proof that he can fight through such an effect. Had that been responded to and really broken down, it could have been detrimental to your debate, and might have cost you the CaV. Watch the angles you are choosing to attack, and consider the tactics you are choosing to use carefully.
That being said, you have really grown as a debater since way back when we went head to head with Aspen versus Ms Marvel. To be able to go head to head with cosmic, and pull what looks like will be an overwhelming majority of votes is no small feat.
I don't think I have ever voted against cosmic in a CaV, as he is definitely a dominant force on the CaV scene (and most likely will be in the next HoF, he will have my nom and vote for it). And while I don't agree with some of luke's points, overall in this instance he made the stronger case. Sorry to say it cosmic, but this time luke get's the nod. You are still my bro cosmic, and I hate picking between the two of you (luke is my boy as well), and while you put up a good defense, I have to give credit where it is due.
Alright, let's break this down. Danny had to train in the mystic city of K'un-Lun before facing the immortal dragon, Shou-Lao. Doing so, he learned all of the Kun Lun martial arts, and mastered the ability to use his chi. With chi, Danny can do things like this:
Note, there is no glow around his hands, he smashed a steel girder with a punch, which of course is attributed to his personal chi. This is how he and martial artists like Shang Chi, pull off their superhuman feats and amping of stats, through chi usage. After sufficient training and martial arts mastery (which includes chi), Danny earned the right the face Shou-Lao:
Defeating Shou-Lao, he dipped his hands into the "heart of the dragon", and gained powers from an external source. So when you see the large area attacks, and tell tale golden glow, that is the power or of Shou-Lao:
Note that there is a very specific mention of the chi of Shou-Lao. The Shou-Lao chi is what allows him to do things like one shot trains, helicarriers, apache helicopters, or even the likes of Hercules. The Shou-Lao chi is what he uses to do large area attacks, chi projections attacks, so forth and so on.
So, personal chi is what he has gained through training, and the Shou-Lao chi is what gave him the title of the Iron Fist and was earned by defeating the immortal dragon.
@jashro44: Actually a good fight there. Bat's using his tech and the environment, and his tactical mind, and he kept it from being a straight up, face to face fight. She did seem to dance around him a bit in those few face to face moments where tech and environment weren't involved. Looks pretty legit.
@jashro44: I'm just wondering, just mainly due to scenes I have seen where she seems pretty much above Bats when she has access to all of her abilities and isn't holding back, where she appears to be fairly dominant as opposed to the scene being discussed. Unfortunately, I don't know all of the nuances of the characters and the hows and whys of their battles overall, so I am just trying to get a better picture of it all.
@nerdchore: Just one more suggestion, find some of the people that have had the biggest discussions on this thread, and you might want to tag them in a post that you changed up the thread, and wanted to see what they thought. That way you get more discussion on it, but it looks good. You might want to specify the armor in the no vibranium list as well, to avoid any chance of misunderstanding.