Was Avengers truly a great movie?

I’m about to become one of the least popular people on ComicVine.

As much as I enjoyed The Avengers – I don’t consider it one of the best or greatest movies of all time. In fact I think it’s pretty poor in that regard.

There – I said it!

Now, if you’ll indulge me, I’ll explain exactly what I mean. Just bare with me for a few minutes and remain open minded and maybe we can get through this without everyone hating me.

Have you ever seen a movie where you watched it, you loved it and thought it was great, but then the more you watched it and thought about it – the more you realised it actually wasn’t all that special? Well, The Avengers was one of those movies for me. When I first watched it – I laughed and got excited and fist pumped certain moments in the film. I adored the film and it was easily one of the best films (at the time) I had seen for the year. I loved it. I love Joss Whedon’s work usually and was not let down by The Avengers and any Joss Whedon fan could see his hallmarks all over it.

But time went on and I saw it a few more times (both at the cinema and at home) and with each viewing – I was left feeling a little flatter. Inevitably comparisons are made between it and other popular and successful CBM films such as The Dark Knight, Man of Steel and The Amazing Spider-man. Here at CV it happens A LOT. In reading these threads it allowed me to get some perspective on why I didn’t have the same love for it after several viewings as I did on the first (in contrast a film like The Dark Knight or the original Superman movie fills me with joy or excitement or some other positive feeling each time I see it or think about it – I might come back to that point later).

This shot alone shows how ridiculous this film was...

You see in considering other films comparatively, I realised that The Avengers lacked substance (for want of a better word). This does not make it a “bad movie”. I want to be clear about that. Not every film I see has to be some deep and meaningful experience. Sometimes I just want to see stuff get blown up. Sometimes I want mindless fighting and shooting and explosions. Sometimes I don’t even care if the dialogue is all that entertaining, as long as the action is great, or the special effects are good, or it makes me laugh despite it having a terrible story line (Dumb & Dumber anyone?). However the films that cater to these desires are generally not considered any type of cinematic masterpiece. Take The Expendables 2 for example. It was a ludicrous movie full of cheesy one-liners, bad puns, bad dialogue, worse acting, but LOTS OF EXPLOSIONS!!!!!! It accomplished (what I hope was) its goal of being a cheesy action flick to parody and pay homage to the big action movies of the 80’s and early 90’s. While the film as a cinematic experience was terrible – it was enjoyable and fun. The Fast & Furious movies are another example of this in my mind. Stupid, ridiculous films that stretch the realm of disbelief to its limits – but they’re fun and entertaining still. I rarely hear anyone however saying how Fast & Furious 6 was one of the best movies they’ve ever seen, or rating it among their favourite films. It made a stack of money – meaning it was popular and people liked it enough – but it’s not going down in the annals of cinematic history as a great film.

This is where I find the Avengers however. It made an absolute ton of money – pointing to its popularity. There are endless debates about it being the best CBM of all time, and I’m sure many people on here have it in their top 5 films of all time (CBM or not). But for me – I can’t justify this.

Once I take away the humour and the special effects action sequences – I find there’s nothing left to the film. The dialogue itself isn’t special in any way. The acting isn’t brilliant, Oscar worthy stuff (not that I expect such from a CBM mind you). Chris Evans, RDJ, Chris Hemsworth, Jeremy Renner, Samuel L. Jackson… all good enough actors but none of them did anything that plenty of other actors couldn’t have achieved as well. The plot and story were – well, not really there. It’s a simple alien invasion story basically at its core. I don’t find any underlying themes, or commentary of anything. There are plot holes left, right, and centre. The visual effects while good aren’t overly stellar or ground breaking in any way. This film hasn’t defined or created a genre or style (if anything it just lends from all various films that came before it, with typical Joss Whedon tropes that can be seen in Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse, and Firefly to name a few). I’ve seen several people complain on here that the humour is injected far too frequently, basically as a way to pad the dialogue or to hide the films failings.

Now, none of this stops it being an enjoyable experience – but as I said, I also find the Fast & Furious films (well, except for Tokyo Drift) enjoyable as well – but they’re nothing to rant and rave about and I certainly don’t consider them among my favourite films – they’re just a bit of mindless entertainment.

On the other side of the coin are films like Man of Steel and The Dark Knight. Nolan, Goyer and Snyder did something with their respective films that few (if any) CBM’s have approached – being serious, proper movies. These aren’t just mindless entertainment. These are serious movies that happen to be about comic book characters. They could just as easily be about a real life person or event or topic in their approach (obviously not their story). They explore themes and ideas and issues that are present in the real world. They reflect society, present concepts such as fear, choice, what it means to be a leader, how we as species act and interact with each other and our world and our place in it. A concept like free will and what that can mean and look like is portrayed in Man of Steel. How a man can over-come fear and become a driving force behind change in the world is reflected in the Nolan Batman films.

How is he hanging out the back window?

Heath Ledger, in my opinion, portrayed the Joker in such a way it was completely worthy of an Oscar – even if it wasn’t true to some people’s perception of the source material. Within the context of the film and the cinematic experience itself, he was true evil, he represented everything that is dark and chaotic and twisted in us. He tapped into something that each of us has within us and brought it out in full, making that his entire character. The part of us that hates others, and wants to see them falter. The part of us that doesn't trust anyone. The part of us that makes us laugh at someone else’s failures and misfortunes. Nolan’s Joker was that in a pure, homicidal, totally chaotic form. He reflected the darkest parts of humanity and what we are capable of – for no rhyme or reason than simply because we can.

And Ledger nailed the performance in such a way that to watch him, to listen to him, to hear that laugh can give people chills up their spine. Comparatively, Loki was just a punch-line. A means to an end for a plot. He’s charming and cool and hip – but he really is (as someone described Zod and Faora in another thread), that moustache twirling villain that ties someone to train tracks and laughs because he’s the bad guy. This is only scratching the surface of reasons why I personally consider this an amazing and brilliant movie (I will point out a lot of this doesn’t follow into its sequel Dark Knight Rises – this was a major let down for me).

Superman The Movie, despite its age and faults (especially when compared to current films), for me is an integral part of cinematic history. It attempted something that had never been done before. It created the CBM genre and laid the foundation of pretty much every CBM to come after it. Kevin Smith talked about this on his podcast once and stated it perfectly. The construction or layout of Superman The Movie was the blueprint for every CBM that came after it (with the exception of Nolan/Snyder that is). At the time it was a bold and risky move to create this movie. It had massive expenses and production costs. They literally created new special effects methods for the flying scenes to make them look better and more realistic than anything that had been done before it. Christopher Reeve’s portrayal became the image of the character for a large majority of people (not just comic book fans) for decades and is still the measuring stick today for how the character is portrayed for many people. Hell, he was the poster-boy for “how to be a super-hero” – about how to try and encapsulate the character in the comics on the big screen. He held the throne of being the “true Superman” for almost 4 decades, and only now is their considered to be possible genuine contender. On a personal level the feelings of nostalgia and boyish pleasure it brings out in me isn’t replicated by any other film and never will be. I watched many movies and have loved many – but nothing compares to Superman The Movie (and Superman II as a close second) in that sense for me. I realise not everyone has this same emotional attachment, and they probably have that with other films, but this is a genuine part of a truly great cinematic experience. Man of Steel however brought all that back for me, which is one of many reasons why I love that film.

Stare at his eyes.... just stare at them....

When I think of truly great and amazing films throughout history, films like Superman The Movie and The Dark Knight for me, rank up there with others like some of the (now) classics such as Silence of the Lambs, Scarface, the original Matrix film, or even more recent films like Gladiator or Blood Diamond, 300, The Kings Speech, or Argo. Each of these films brought something to the table that others tried and failed at, or had never thought to bring before, or was just so brilliantly done it really did become iconic. Silence of the Lambs has one of the most iconic and chilling performances by a truly amazing actor in the history of cinema. The Matrix introduced revolutionary special effects techniques and an intricate and mind-bending story that people talked about for days, weeks and months after seeing the film. Scarface is one of the cinematic worlds masterpieces, thanks in no small part to Al Pacino’s amazing acting. Others might consider films like The Godfather, the original Star Wars (usually specifically Return of the Jedi), Jaws and a massive list of others to up here as well.

I just can’t consider The Avengers in the same league of cinematic history as these types of movies. I enjoyed The Avengers. I thought that within the CBM genre it was great work and is thoroughly entertaining – but at the end of the day for me it will fade into memory as just one of a million other movies that I saw, enjoyed, and then largely forgot about, and it doesn't stand out as any better than a vast majority of CBM's - it's just like the majority of them.

I realise I may be mostly alone in this view, that many of you will disagree with me in every possible thing I’ve said here. And that’s fine – each person has their own perceptions and opinions. While I may not have gleamed anything from The Avengers, some of you may have, and I would honestly be keen to hear those things - perhaps it will open my mind up to once again enjoy The Avengers in a similar way to my first viewing of it. Maybe it won’t.

152 Comments
152 Comments
Posted by Wolverine08

This is not an unpopular opinion, and no CBM is really a truly great movie when you think about it. Most of the best CBMs are just that, great CBMs.

Edited by MonsterStomp
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Posted by Wolverine08
Edited by cameron83

@wishiwassuperman: Honestly,I think Avengers was a great movie....was it the best movie of all time that ever existed in the history of human civilization (as many critics like to say,like,every other month)? No. I think it was great. Was it the best? No. In fact,some parts were corny and boring to me and others were really great. Even better with deleted footage.

But this is my opinion and your opinion is yours. To each his/her own.

I don't consider Man of Steel that great (at all),and I really liked the Nolan franchise,but it wasn't as amazing as many people put it....although I did like the Joker of that movie.

@wolverine08 said:

This is not an unpopular opinion, and no CBM is really a truly great movie when you think about it. Most of the best CBMs are just that, great CBMs.

this

Posted by MonsterStomp
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Edited by Wolverine08
Posted by kgb725

Yea

Edited by Tyrus

People on this site make The Avengers seem worse than Green Lantern or Ghost Rider.

Others make Man of Steel look like CBM's Titanic or The Godfather. It's not.

Posted by Wolverine08

But incredible blog @wishiwassuperman. One of the best pieces I've ever read on Comic Vine.

Edited by Fallschirmjager

@wishiwassuperman: This is another terrific blog, man. Its not the first I've read or thought was fantastic either.

Its well-thought out and well-defined. I happen to agree with most / all of it.

I too...liked the Avengers. A lot. Especially in the theaters the first time. I was laughing, with everyone else in the audience. But when you view it multiple times (as you said)...you just find a lack of substance to the whole thing.

I mean - even the solo movies before the Avengers, like Ironman, Thor or Captain America all had substance. Ironman dealt with weapons in the world - Thor was a classic telling of two brother's competing for their Father's approval (you find that story as far back as the bible) and Captain America is the epitome of what many Americans today still consider the greatest generation of our country's history.

I know this always turns into a Marvel VS DC flame thread (always...) so I don't want to go there...but I can't help but feel the same way about Avengers vs The Dark Knight. The latter was not just a great CBM...but a great movie. That story could have been told with new names to the familiar faces...and would STILL be an amazing movie. TDKR was not as good as you also said...although I was expecting it not to be as good as TDK...so I wasn't at let down.

The best thing about Avengers IMO is that its shows bringing together characters who've never met before for some grand-team up is possible...and can be great. And the Avengers is a damn good CBM movie and a good time when you shut your mind off. But that doesn't make it the single greatest anything unfortunately.

(Props again man. Terrific blog)

Posted by JetiiMitra

@tyrus said:

People on this site make The Avengers seem worse than Green Lantern or Ghost Rider.

The more hype something gets, the worse it seems when it gets criticized. And The Avengers is the king of hype.

Edited by MonsterStomp

@wolverine08: Fast skimmer.

Anyway now that I'm done. I agree soul-heartedly.

The Avengers is a good one night stand, if you will. You can watch it once, but I guarantee that the second time isn't so fun, but still maintains its perks. I feel like its too humorous. The world is at stake here and Thor is making jokes like Loki is adopted, Iron Man keeps zapping Hulk and bringing down Steve, etc.

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Posted by Wolverine08

I think @cameron83 said it best. Was Avengers, the greatest, most well acted, revolutionary, view changing movie that has ever graced human history? Definitely not, but it is a pretty good movie IMO.

Edited by hart7668

Very well written. But I have to wonder...you gave a pass (sort of) to Expendables because it reached its "goal" of being a cheesy action filled movie. But then you proceeded to state that if you take away the special effects and the humor, there isn't much left to the Avengers.

But being a CBM, how do you know that the goal for the Avengers wasn't to be a humorous, slightly dramatic, special effect palooza? It's not like they were filming nonfiction or anything - it's a medium often aimed at the 15-25 yo range, or "young adults" if you will. What if the special effects and the humor were all that was meant to be in it? It's not like Spielberg directed it or anything. It's not meant to be heavy or anything. Particularly with the casting it certainly didn't seem like they were going for A grade dramatic Oscar or SAG award type stuff anyways.

I pretty much agree with you, but I do like to play the devil's advocate from time to time....

Edited by fil123

Avengers is good but to compare it to TDK is ridiculous. TDK wasnt just a comic book movie, it was a crime drama and an oscar nom for best picture.

Posted by Tyrus

The Avengers was truly a great movie if people are still talking about it to this day. It's already marked a particular place in cinema history (or it will, if, like I said, we continue to talk about it).

Posted by XImpossibruX

@fil123 said:

Avengers is good but to compare it to TDK is ridiculous. TDK wasnt just a comic book movie, it was a crime drama and an oscar nom for best picture.

Pretty much this.

Posted by Tyrus

@fil123 said:

Avengers is good but to compare it to TDK is ridiculous. TDK wasnt just a comic book movie, it was a crime drama and an oscar nom for best picture.

Comments (about The Avengers) like this makes it hard to believe that people don't feel the same way about comparing other CBM's like Man of Steel or X2 to TDK...

Edited by WIshIWasSuperman

Wow - lots of responses all ready.... although surprisingly positive - thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I'll do some pointed responses in a moment.

Posted by Tyrus

Wow - lots of responses all ready.... although surprisingly positive - thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I'll do some pointed responses in a moment.

Don't get your hopes up - I'm already hinting in my comments that I'm ready to burst if I have back-up, lol :P

Posted by AllStarSuperman

I completely agree with your points on the Christopher Reeve superman movies, im not old but I grew up on those movies. he is my definitive Superman. Also Man of Steel is in my top 2 favorite movies.

Avengers was good, not even great IMO, but its entertaining.

TDK is a masterpiece, it my not be my favorite. I like Begins a lot more, but TDK is a better crafted movie all around.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

@hart7668 said:

Very well written. But I have to wonder...you gave a pass (sort of) to Expendables because it reached its "goal" of being a cheesy action filled movie. But then you proceeded to state that if you take away the special effects and the humor, there isn't much left to the Avengers.

But being a CBM, how do you know that the goal for the Avengers wasn't to be a humorous, slightly dramatic, special effect palooza? It's not like they were filming nonfiction or anything - it's a medium often aimed at the 15-25 yo range, or "young adults" if you will. What if the special effects and the humor were all that was meant to be in it? It's not like Spielberg directed it or anything. It's not meant to be heavy or anything. Particularly with the casting it certainly didn't seem like they were going for A grade dramatic Oscar or SAG award type stuff anyways.

I pretty much agree with you, but I do like to play the devil's advocate from time to time....

Yes, you're right I did give the Expendables 2 a pass - on being an otherwise terrible movie. Like I said, the goal I pointed out is what I HOPED was it's goal. If that wasn't it's goal then it's just a poor movie. But I digress...

You may be right about The Avengers itself in terms of its own "goal". The blog is more looking at how the movie is considered by fans and critics alike. I can't think of anyone talking about The Expendables and saying how amazing it is and how it's one of their favourite movies etc... I'm sure it was in some peoples eyes, but the vast majority just seem to view it the way I do when it has come up as a discussion point. And yes - amazingly it HAS come up as a discussion point. The Avengers on the other hand has become "the best movie EEEVVVAAAAARRRRR" as far as some people are concerned - and while they can definitely have that view (hey - whatever makes you happy, right?) - it does make me question exactly what criteria a person has when they make a statement like that.

And no problems with someone being devil's advocate (also a very good film) - it's a role I often take on myself.

Posted by Wolverine08

X2 is a great example of a comic book movie that is also a great movie with it's social relevance and themes of tolerance IMO.

Posted by MonsterStomp

Nolan's films weren't exactly comic-bookie, they were a very good action/crime/thriller though.

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Posted by Wolverine08

I really don't see many people calling Avengers the greatest overall movie ever to be honest. Do a lot of people call it the greatest comic book movie of all time? Yes, but I frankly don't see that many people calling it the greatest overall movie of all time. *Shrugs* Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places.

Posted by MonsterStomp

@wolverine08: Should have been around last year then. Avengers fans left and right.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@monsterstomp: Not that different then Dark Knight fans constantly screaming that it's the greatest movie of all time after its release. All popular movies get massive hype the short while after their releases. Great movies tend to keep that hype in the long run.

Edited by DareHulk

Avengers was pretty good, it just lacked any kind of substance, meaning or story. It's just like all the Transformers and X-Men: Last Stand, sure they look real cool and have great action but that's all. Story, character development, heart, etc. are all thrown out the window in those movies and Avengers too. That doesn't make it bad, it just makes them passable popcorn flicks. I like them, just don't love them.

Posted by DareHulk
Posted by MonsterStomp

@monsterstomp: Not that different then Dark Knight fans constantly screaming that it's the greatest movie of all time after its release. All popular movies get massive hype the short while after their releases. Great movies tend to keep that hype in the long run.

Except Man of Steel. No hype there. No blog flood. All we get is him in the battle forums. Vastly underrated film.

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Posted by Wolverine08

@monsterstomp: True. I don't think Man of Steel was an INCREDIBLE film, but it got an 8/10 from me and I enjoyed it a lot. I'm surprised critics bashed it so much. They really went overboard with the criticism.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

@tyrus said:

The Avengers was truly a great movie if people are still talking about it to this day. It's already marked a particular place in cinema history (or it will, if, like I said, we continue to talk about it).

@tyrus said:

@fil123 said:

Avengers is good but to compare it to TDK is ridiculous. TDK wasnt just a comic book movie, it was a crime drama and an oscar nom for best picture.

Comments (about The Avengers) like this makes it hard to believe that people don't feel the same way about comparing other CBM's like Man of Steel or X2 to TDK...

@tyrus said:

@wishiwassuperman said:

Wow - lots of responses all ready.... although surprisingly positive - thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I'll do some pointed responses in a moment.

Don't get your hopes up - I'm already hinting in my comments that I'm ready to burst if I have back-up, lol :P

People talking about a movie ad nauseam does not mean it is a great movie. We still talk about Green Lantern - I don't think anyone on here considered it a great movie. People may choose to talk about it because of some controversy, because they can't understand how such a steaming pile of excrement can be made to begin with (*coughGhostRiderSpiritOfVengeance*cough*) or simply because something keeps coming up that it pertains to.

For example - the blog was inspired by a comment I heard yesterday stated by one of the guys on AMC on YouTube. As a throw-away comment he said "The Avengers is the best CBM ever made" (or all time.. can't remember the specific wording there). The context of the discussion was about CBM's and Avengers 2 and a few other things as they do frequently on that channel. Similar sentiments pop up on CV all the time. Rotten Tomatoes reviews treat it like it seriously seems to be up there with the like of the Godfather Trilogy as far as movies go. So I wrote the blog as a way to express my point of view. Personally if you're going to label a movie "the best" it should be more than The Avengers was/is when other films are exactly that - more. If you're someone who "loved" TDK for example (as this same commentator/reviewer says he is) then for me personally, it doesn't make sense to also say in the same conversation that The Avengers was the best CBM, considering TDK was a much deeper, more expressive and, again IMO, better cinematic experience and venture.

For me - MoS is a much "better" film is this regard than the Avengers as well. But I realise that is not a view that everyone shares. Would I say MoS is more "entertaining" than Avengers? - debatable, but as far as an entire movie and everything a brilliant or great or "best" film should be (IMO anyway) - yes, MoS is "better" - again IMO. As I said in my blog though - perhaps I missed some things in Avengers that others got out of it (similar to how I seem to have taken things away from MoS that others didn't).

Posted by Wolverine08

@darehulk: Damn straight! I love X2 and never get tired of it. One of my favorites CBMs.

Edited by Fallschirmjager

@wishiwassuperman: John Campea from AMC Movie Talk? He's awesome. And he does reiterate almost every episode that film is subjective and everyone has a different opinion - so there's that.

And AMC Movie Talk is an amazing channel. Everyone should go sub - right now - if you don't have one all ready.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

@tyrus said:

People on this site make The Avengers seem worse than Green Lantern or Ghost Rider.

Others make Man of Steel look like CBM's Titanic or The Godfather. It's not.

Just spotted this one (this thread is getting comments faster than I can notice) - Titanic? Really? I mean I understand The Godfather reference but... Titanic.... Anyway. Avengers certainly isn't worse than Green Lantern of Ghost Rider - I think as far as CBM's go however it's far form the best - but again - that's just me.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

@wishiwassuperman: John Campea from AMC Movie Talk? He's awesome. And he does reiterate almost every episode that film is subjective and everyone has a different opinion - so there's that.

And AMC Movie Talk is an amazing channel. Everyone should go sub - right now - if you don't have one all ready.

Yep - that's the guy (couldn't think of his name) I like the guy a lot and agree with a lot of what he says - but that one statement (after having earlier in the day read threads saying how awesometastic Avengers was) just got me inspired for this blog. Generally though I find him very eloquent, mature, reasonable and fair in his statements and opinions. He's one of only handfuls of people I see who is really able to express himself really well and just present well thought arguments and responses to questions. And I agree - everyone should go and sub if they haven't.

Posted by Fallschirmjager

@wishiwassuperman: Yup. The whole crew is really awesome.

Even better because a few of them (Campea and Schnepp for sure) all read comics - so when it comes to discussing CBMs (which happens a lot) they tend to actually know what they're talking about - most of the time.

Just today they had a pretty good discussion concerning Green Lantern in fact.

Posted by Wolverine08

I disagree with you on your statement that the acting in Avengers could have been done by anyone else. No can play Iron Man like Robert Downey Jr. :D

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

I disagree with you on your statement that the acting in Avengers could have been done by anyone else. No can play Iron Man like Robert Downey Jr. :D

Point taken, but I didn't say "anyone else" technically - I said "plenty of other actors could have achieved" - I'm sure if they needed to they could find an ex-junkie former star and reinvigorate his career when RDJ finally taps out. :-P

Edited by Dabee

Looks like we've got a film snob! I'm just kidding, that's just what I say to people who rant about how much it sucked. You actually made a well-reasoned argument, and I get what your saying. It doesn't change anything for me, though, I still love it! x-D

Posted by Wolverine08

@wishiwassuperman: There will never be another former junkie who can play Iron Man like RDJ!

Posted by Tyrus
Posted by WIshIWasSuperman
Edited by WIshIWasSuperman

@dabee said:

Looks like we've got a film snob! I'm just kidding, that's just what I say to people who rant about how much it sucked. You actually made a well-reasoned argument, and I get what your saying. It doesn't change anything for me, though, I still love it! x-D

lol... Maybe I am.

I don't think the movie sucked, not at all though - I don't think it was a bad movie and to be honest I did really enjoy it. Not sure if I said it before but the blog isn't so much about the movie itself - it's more the way it seems to be revered by oh so many as such an amazing movie, even CBM - personally I think MoS, TDK, X-Men and X2, and Iron Man were all better CBM's over-all.

Edited by Blackdog2009

It's a fun movie. Definitely not great. The Scooby Doo ending was fcukd up. "Take him away officers".

Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse

I thought it was good...but not really great.

Posted by Pokeysteve

OP is way too long for me to read and it'd probably just piss me off anyways.

Avengers was FUN and that makes it great. If you're analyzing performance, cinematography, pacing, and crap like that, than you can't enjoy any thing and the whole point of going to the movies is pointless.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

It's a fun movie. Definitely not great. The Scooby Doo ending was fcukd up. "Take him away officers".

Lol.. "Scooby Doo ending" good call... good call.

Posted by WIshIWasSuperman

OP is way too long for me to read and it'd probably just piss me off anyways.

Avengers was FUN and that makes it great. If you're analyzing performance, cinematography, pacing, and crap like that, than you can't enjoy any thing and the whole point of going to the movies is pointless.

I admit it was fun, you're right about that - I said it was enjoyable and never said it was a bad movie. I only spend a minor part "analyzing" the film from those perspectives - since it pertains to the actual point of the post - it's not a review of the film, rather a thought and opinion blog (emphasis that it's a blog entry BTW) in terms of the film and how it is regarded as some masterful movie, either within the CBM genre, or in cinema in general. It's not a critique of the film itself - rather questioning how it achieves this status as "the best CBM ever" or "one of the bets movies in history" (such comments can easily be found) when as a film, cinematically it's nothing special, while TDK, or Superman The Movie for example (as referenced int he blog) are both great CBM's and cinematic experiences for multiple reasons. However - you're welcome to disagree.

Posted by Fallschirmjager

@pokeysteve: Just because you don't find substance, acting pacing and cinematography fun - doesn't mean other people don't.

There is more than one way to enjoy a movie that just to take everything at face value.