ViperKing's forum posts

#1 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

@senglord: I think you're underestimating Prometheus. Prometheus has an intellect greater than Batman, prep better than Deathstroke, and accuracy on par with Green Arrow, not to mention a gigantic variety of weapons ranging from mini-rockets to molecular darts. To top it all off, his physical stats are already on par with Batman and he created a helmet that can download information, including all the fighting styles and moves of the thirty best martial artists in the universe. For every plan he makes, he goes over every possible scenario, thousands, making sure his plans succeed. He's incredible at prep, taking on groups of Justice Leaguers, even better than Deathstroke taking on groups of Titans. You know how they defeated Prometheus? They downloaded Stephen Hawking's disease (can't remember what it's called) into his helmet and Martian Manhunter did something with his mind (can't remember details) because they knew he could easily escape from prison and try to defeat them all again. Seriously, not many people can face Lady Shiva and live to tell about it. This guy mopped the floor with Shiva in three seconds. With prep, he could take the entirety of team 1 by himself. He could probably hold his own against everyone on team 2 combined with prep excluding Black Manta. He even murdered the other guy that took his costume, claiming he used his equipment badly. I think he would survive longer than Deathstroke, especially since he's impressive at analyzing people. I honestly think that it depends on how many assassins and if they're notable or just normal.

I absolutely agree with you about Black Manta. Someone said he was a street leveler. -_- Please, he trades blows with Aquaman, who can lift 100 tons easily. I think Batwing's the weakest of the three though. The only possible factor that I haven't accounted for is that the Bat family's teamwork and coordination is better than everyone else's but I don't think it will make up for the difference of firepower. I think Prometheus could survive until it is Black Manta and Blade left because I'm almost positive he can defeat any individual on each team excluding Batwing, Black Manta, and Blade. Seriously, he's got some serious firepower with mini-rockets, wrist gauntlets, and microscopic nanobots.

#2 Edited by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: @veshark: You heard wrong about these assertions. One writer wasn't reliable and now suddenly all of David Cain's feats are assertions. -_-.

David Cain (if he's in his prime) would definitely beat Winter Soldier. He was stalemating with Batman when sober (in No Man's Land) before Cassandra Cain jumped in. Even a drunk David Cain marks Batman's face up. He's technically only lost twice to Batman with one stalemate, one loss while drunk, the other one was really close, if I'm not mistaken. If David Cain isn't in his prime, I think Winter Soldier could probably take the majority. Plus, David Cain's standard gear includes guns, explosives, etc. I'm not sure why anyone would think he wants to go hand-to-hand. He uses guns, explosives, and all types of non-melee weapons. Also, I'm not sure why he would announce himself. That's really uncharacteristic of him. Of course, one smoke grenade would definitely help him disappear.

These are some of his feats. He broke into the Batcave (a feat Nightwing states he couldn't have done), cuts through all of Bruce's security like a ghost, even the security on his computer, to mess with his computer, leaving no traces to how he frames Bruce for murder with evidence so compelling even his allies (the Bat family, including Oracle) start to doubt Bruce, simply because everything points to him having done it. Only a (plot-induced) stroke of luck unravels his plans, and even when they figure out someone must have broken into the Batcave it takes Oracle, Nightwing, and Tim's best efforts to even get an inkling of how he might have done it (with acrobatics so difficult Nightwing has problems replicating them, and technology along the lines of 'hard-light projectors' among other science-fiction gadgetry).

He shot three armed guards with broken arms, strapped to a hospital bed, and didn't miss. He nearly killed Deadshot without having eaten in two weeks and wanting to die himself. The fight even starts off with his hands cuffed behind his back. While under 24/7 surveillance in cameras (direct feed from his cell to the guards dedicated to watching him), and supposedly with no equipment (he's in Blackgate Prison), Cain breaks out of his cell with nobody the wiser, runs off to Gotham, delivers a present for Cass, then arrives back at Blackgate prison just as they figure out that he's gone, walking in the front gate as they open it up to go looking for him. He once set up a mock terrorist situation involving himself and a nuclear power plant on one end of Gotham with sufficiently perfect videos that it fools not only the army but Batman and Oracle (with all her superb electronics and top-notch skill) into believing he's over there while he carries out his business undisturbed on the other side of town.

I mean, this is the guy that escaped from the hospital and killed every (national) agent in his home after multiple broken bones, partially being restrained, and roughed up by Batman. Also note that he was more drunk than an Irish man but still managed to do all this and hurt Batman. Seriously, he's snuck up on his own daughter, while Batman had trouble doing so. He's not only a Deadshot-level sniper, he walks into places full of armed people, shoots them all, and kills them all, walking away happy.

Specifically to the Deadshot instance, so David Cain is in prison with a 10 million dollar bounty on his head. He has stopped eating, hasn't had anything in three days - he wants to die, because it's easier to die than to face his daughter. Deadshot comes to kill him as he's being transfered, while Batman intervenes. What follows are two comics of utter madness as Deadshot tries to kill Cain, Cain tries to die, and Batman tries to keep Cain alive. Cain, cuffed and starved, falls multiple stories, smashes through a bathroom wall headfirst (right through the porcelain tiles), gets caught in explosions (mostly out of them), gets beat up more, etc. Batman gets cut off from him, and Cain ends up face to eyepiece with Deadshot (who he once taught). Deadshot tosses Cain a gun. Cain refuses to pick it up. Deadshot shoots Cain in the shoulder. Cain still refuses. Deadshot then makes a really, really dumb mistake, reminding Cain he might have something worth living for. Exhausted, beaten, battered, cuffed, and shot, Cain still completely overwhelms him, shifting past his gunfire with a headbutt, crushing him in hand to hand, dodging his shots, then shooting both of Deadshot's arms and putting a bullet right next to his heart, later revealed to have been perfectly placed to lay Deadshot up for a long, long time but not kill him.

#3 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude, Deathstroke has taken on teams of Titans by himself, with more than half of them (including Kid Flash, Superboy, Wonder Girl, Cyborg) able to solo the entire Bat family. David Cain stalemated Deathstroke in his prime. He's still capable enough to individually defeat at least five members of the Bat family. Also, which assassins are they for the League of Assassins? Plus, how many? It'd be great if you could name them. Is it notable ones like Bronze Tiger, Merlyn, Mad Dog and possibly the Sensei? Entropy is correct about everybody there being great at prep except for Talon. Deathstroke and Prometheus have both incredible prep feats, being able to take on the Justice League. Plus, Black Manta holds his own against Aquaman, who is easily a 100-tonner. Team 1 doesn't have much of a chance. Team 2 has a great chance. I don't know enough about Team 3 but I'm pretty sure nobody is going to solo.

#4 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman has stated Deadshot pulls his shots when he is around and would have killed him. Tim is no Batman.

#5 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

I know Hawkgirl's mace or any weapon of Nth metal can harm Grundy and I watched the episode several times

To the bolded, you fooled me. You're honestly grasping at straws. If you admit Hawkgirl's mace can harm Solomon Grundy, then if Amazo can duplicate or use the mace, what's stopping him from doing the exact same thing as Hawkgirl did. Amazo's normal abilities (such as teleporting him) did not affect him because he was risen from Chaos magic. Duplicating or using another person's weapons has nothing to do with Solomon Grundy. Dr. Fate didn't mention anything about Hawkgirl's pre-existing relationship. He talked about her mace (Nth metal) being able to harm Grundy. You're talking to me about adding stipulations when you're saying "With all the geniuses in the DCU, they'll definitely figure out something." That's basically saying Batman could beat Superman because "He's so tactical." Writers do what they want. You can choose not to believe that writers needed to send Amazo away (because logically, he would have beaten every enemy they had) but it's true. I can say the world is flat all I want. It's still going to be round. Plus, what's going to "distract" Amazo? He threatened to wipe away the existence of the universe! Plus, he, minimally, has J'onn's mental abilities, able to read minds easily. He could easily read the characters' minds and find out what they were doing.

First off, you're lying - The title was asking about the best hand-to-hand combatants, not the best 1v1ers. Did you even read the OP? Have you even read No Man's Land? Batman faced over eleven villains non-stop (due to Bane's genius) because Bane knew a direct assault on Batman would be foolish. Bane had to wear Bruce down for an entire week with a gauntlet, then amp himself with Venom to defeat Batman. He's never beaten Batman physically since that, especially after quitting Venom. Give me two people Bane has beaten in hand-to-hand, that are actually impressive. You obviously haven't read anything about Cassandra Cain, Ben Turner, or Conner Hawke, all of which would easily defeat Bane in hand-to-hand. Deathstroke, Black Canary, and Constantine Drakon are better than Bane in hand-to-hand. Plus, everyone I just mentioned could beat Bane. Seriously, I can name fifty DC characters who can beat Bane off the top of my head in a random encounter. Bane's an awesome villain but he's definitely not in the top five hand-to-hand combatants in DC. I mean seriously, the guy barely has a better hand-to-hand record than Two-Face.

You can laugh all you want but the fact is you can't back up a word you say.

You're obviously not good at reading titles or OPs and don't know much about hand-to-hand combatants.

No, the difference is that one fight is of completely fictional characters where one all-powerful being is placed against a bunch of beings that threw everything they had at him and still got pushed aside, to a real-life guy getting jumped by a bunch of other real-life guys in a dark alley somewhere.

#6 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: I know but he could just take it if he wanted to. I miss JLU. The last season could have been done so much better.

#7 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

@clarkkent12: You need to rewatch the JLU episode because Dr. Fate says that her mace is the only thing in the universe that can harm him. Then, John Stewart offers to kill Solomon Grundy for Hawkgirl. It's outright clear that the mace is what is harming Grundy. It isn't some ridiculous theory about pre-existing conditions. She says she can do it alone. When Hawkgirl was pounding Solomon Grundy, he didn't calm down. He was enraged and tried to kill her. Since you won't stop repeating yourself over and over again, I'm going to go ahead and throw out the teleportation argument. All Amazo has to do is grab Hawkgirl's mace after he kills her, then he would just kill Solomon Grundy in the same way. May I remind you that Amazo was so powerful, he was basically unstoppable? Amazo didn't return in the episode

because the writers felt the need to leave him or he would have destroyed the Ultimen in the Cadmus crisis in less than a second.

You obviously don't have a decent memory if you think Hawkgirl was able to kill him because she calmed him down. Also, comic fights are completely different from fights in real life. If I wanted to talk about something completely irrelevant, I would talk about your knowledge of comics since you think Bane is one of the top five fighters in the DCU. If I wanted to talk about something completely irrelevant, I would talk about how you are probably new to comics and haven't read anything before the New 52.

#9 Edited by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley Quinn's overrated. She doesn't deserve her own series. I never saw her appeal. Seeing that she can lift 140 pounds with a finger, she wins but how is she doing that? Last time I checked, she was human and second to the Joker.. She could probably beat Batman easily if she can lift 1,400 pounds with ease.

#10 Posted by ViperKing (422 posts) - - Show Bio

@clarkkent12: This isn't the battle forums so battlefield removal isn't necessarily a no-no. I've already agreed to disagree about teleporting a planet. Teleporting a planet and destroying a planet aren't the same thing. I've already given you two different choices that you're not countering. One is destroying the planet, which you've flip-flopped on. At one point, you said Solomon Grundy would absorb enough energy to withstand such an attack. When I showed you that he cannot, you randomly switched to saying it's not winning. If you don't like this point, then go to my next point. Again, you seem to be ignoring my other argument including the fact that Amazo could just defeat a Thanagarian and kill Solomon Grundy. Since it's the entire DCU, Thanagarians will be attacking Amazo. He could just grab one of their shovels and beat him down, much less an actual weapon, i.e. mace, spear. Hawkgirl did it just fine so Amazo probably could if he took one of their weapons. Teleporting a planet =/= destroying a planet.