velle37's forum posts

#1 Edited by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@rootsunderdog:

Nightwing strength:

Nightwing swings around a refrigerator, which can range from 300-400 pounds

Nightwing slams KGBeast, a 300 pound metahuman, into a concrete wall smashing it, then throws him into the trigger twins

Catches punch from scientist who's taken the megaflex serum and is ripping and smashing lab equipment like nothing

Nightwing speed:

Dodges sniper

Gets Mary out of the way of sniper

Moves Batman out of line of fire

Catwoman states he is faster than Batman

Nightrunner says he is faster than Bruce

Stalemates Cassandra Cain in a race

Dodges Catwoman effortlessly, she runs away, and he gets ahead of her anyway appearing in front of her

Moves faster than Nemesis can see, maybe faster than the "real" Batman

Dodges point blank shot

Nightwing Agility

Dodges bullets from entire swat team

Dodges cyborg assassin Killshot

Dodges machine-gun fire

Dodging 200 rounds a minute from flying gunman

Dodging plasma blasts from Raptor

Deadman, who was a world class acrobat when he was alive along with the Flying Graysons, compliments Grayson on his agility

Batman tells Grayson as a child that there are some thing he could teach him

Dodges blast from Black Beetle

Dodges point blank shot from Dr. Light, then punches him so hard he breaks the circuitry in his suit

Dodges gunfire, while counting shots taken, making it "look easy"

Jumps out of helicopter, free himself from the binds on his hands midair then flips back into the helicopter to kick Tusk out of it

Gets from apartment roof to ground with ease

Uses agility on tightrope to see if murderer was able to break in this way, determining it impossible unless he did it since no one else would be able to pull of these acrobatics

Since his parents are dead, he is the only one in the world who can do a quadruple somersault

Dodging gunfire from all around

Takes down two thugs on speeding trains, dodging bullets, and flipping through city framework

Flips through the city to beat a criminal to his home before he gets there

Batman 1 million, from the future, says Grayson is a legend in his time and tests his skills with intelligent Datarangs which follow their targets honing in on them at the molecular level, Grayson still evades them with speed and acrobatics

Nightwing Skill:

Nightwing's senses are attuned enough to ride on the back of trains blindfolded, and still know exactly where he is in the city at all times, more at this link-http://nightwingfeats.blogspot.com/p/martial-arts.html nightwing # 25

(equipment) Bruce's gauntlets can deflect machine gunfire

Catches blade on escrima

Deflects blades with escrima

Deflects 3 pool balls with one escrima

Detects Deathstroke sneaking up on him

Gets the upper hand on Owlman and makes him bleed

Detects Midnighter, and has a good showing despite his opponents precognition abilities

Drop kicks Batman who is amped with Superman's powers, throws an escrima which strikes Batman even though he dodges with super speed, dodges heat vision with his agility, punches Batman in the jaw, wraps cape around his head

Saves Kara from kryptonite bullet with escrima precision

Strikes and kicks Deathstroke several times, then escapes before Slade can retaliate

Beats Ra's al Ghul in a sword fight

Stalemates Azrael in a sword fight

Gets upperhand on Slade due to superior agility

Detects League of Assassins ninja hiding in the dark, takes him out with an escrima, then takes out the rest that were hiding with him

Disarms and stalemates Deathstroke before Slade distracts him with bystanders

IMO

First round: Stalemate due to comparable skill and attributes. Nightwing has superior martial training, but this is countered by Daredevil's super senses.

Second round: Nightwing due to intelligence and resources advantage.

Third round: Daredevil, due to superhuman equilibrium.

Fourth round: Nightwing due to superior resources at disposal.

#2 Edited by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus:

My point was that Korra got out of Amon's bloodbending grip with her force of will, not that she definitively defeated him.

@lunacyde said:

Moonless Bloodbending is just too powerful.

I agree with just about everything Arcus has put forth.

Also, Katara swore to never use bloodbending again, and she helped to outlaw it so coupled with the fact that there is no evidence suggesting Katara taught her anything about it and it's pretty evident Kya will not be a factor.

I already mentioned Katara's averse reaction to bloodbending, thus the ambiguity of Kya's exposure to it, but also that even though she doesn't like it, she still used it to get revenge on her mother's killer. Also decisions made when young may change when one gets older, gains experience in the world, and has children. Kya is pretty strong willed to have been able to handle Zaheer so effectively, for a short time in their encounter, but again that doesn't mean she could resist these powerful benders. I simply noted that it has been done by strong willed characters, multiple times.

#3 Posted by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus: Amon was finished with the lieutenant and walked directly toward Mako standing inches in front of him. Amon was also staring right at Korra when she airbent at him, her catching him off-guard isn't the issue, she broke his grip on her body.

Mako beat Ming-Hua before she even got to the pool by evaporating her water arms with his fire. He shot lightning after she got to the pool to finish her, but she should have been able to avoid his attacks since she took on multiple White Lotus master firebenders when she broke out of prison.

Aang and Toph were helpless against Yakone, Tenzin and Lin were helpless against Tarlokk, you're asking me why would anyone else have luck against them when the story has actual characters resisting them point blank? Of course it's the plot construction factor for the heroes, because Korra couldn't beat Amon with the 3 elements she's actually been trained in, but beats Amon with the one she hasn't even learned? Mako is strong willed and got lucky. Bolin is strong willed and got lucky enough to bend earth into lava on his first try, and was somehow good enough to contend with Ghazan evenly until Mako arrived to make Ghazan desperate and suicidal.

There is a lot of luck when it comes to those on team avatar. Korra has actually resisted Amon before and has the avatar state, and given the display of skill seen by Tonraq and his Spiritual powers, I don't see it as very farfetched for him to resist. Of course this is debatable, I'm just stating my opinion. The full moon empowers all of them so resisting would still be a willpower factor. Katara has resisted Hama, I don't know if Kya, Tonraq or Pakku could since they have no apparent attributes that signify they could. but I don't see Kya an Katara losing to Ming-Hua, and I see the blood-bending brothers having their hands full with two spiritual avatars.

#4 Posted by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus:

Amon was standing right in front of him, staring at him, how was he not focused on him? Mako is a pretty talented bender, and somehow beat Ming-Hua, who took out several White Lotus masters upon her release from prison.

Also, Korra's waterbending was taken away at that point, and she still resisted.

Amon VS Tonraq and Korra, Tarrlok VS Unalaq and Pakku, Ming-Hua VS Katara and Kya

Do you think this is a fair setup?

Korra still has the avatar state, but Amon still is an incredible h2h fighter, and knows chi-blocking techniques as well, so AS is not an automatic win if Amon is faster on the draw.

Unalaq has spiritual powers, and despite that Tonraq took down Zaheer before he got his bending, and then Zaheer wasn't able to put down Tonraq in their rematch with his airbending until P'li intervened, he made his brother look like a novice in their fight:

Pakku was the greatest Waterbender in the world during his time, I think they'd give a good fight.

The brother's don't usually go immediately for bloodbending anyway. And for all of the rarity that skill represents, other aspects of their bending aren't much more than other waterbending masters. Compare Tarrlok's skills to Unalaq's techniques:

Fight starts at 1:00.

Kya probably hasn't necessarily been trained to be a warrior her whole life, and may be more of a healer, while it is amazing that Ming can bend with no arms, meaning her bending ability is very good. Kya had a pretty good showing against Zaheer and was the first to dominate him briefly:

Ming-Hua, Ghazan, and P'li were able to overwhelm Kya and Bumi, but if Mako defeated Ming-Hua, then Kya and Katara should be able to take Ming-Hua with no sniper around to offset the fight.

I don't think it's as one-sided as other viners believe, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. Assessing the actual feats, skillsets, showings, and potential applications/interactions is how a "logical" conclusion can be made.

#5 Posted by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@mortein said:

@jacthripper said:

Didn't you see Tenzin kick Zaheers @ss?

I saw Tenzin outclassing him in airbending, however Zaheer was just until recently purley hand to hand fighter, and he was still a leader of a very fearsome group of fighters with bending powers. This leads me to a conclusion that Zaheer used to be one of the strongest non benders in the world.

I think that if Zaheer manages to close the distance between him and Tenzin, he will knock him out or snap his neck or something. I do not think Zaheer would even try to defeat him with his air bending powers, but rather use them just to evade attacks and close the distance.

Actually, we saw no proof whatsoever that Zaheer was a talented h2h fighter other than his bending, and it's not in character, he would want to show Tenzin that he was a better bender, not that he could snap his neck. It wouldn't happen because he has no h2h feats unassisted by air bending.

Based on the way Zaheer was presented as a huge threat, a leader of a powerful terrorist group, the reason why everyone was so overprotective over Korra, and based on the way his teammates with bending powers expected from him to save them from prison, and based on the way he was imprisoned on the top of the mountain so he couldn't escape, I was under impression that he was extremely powerful individual even before he got his bending powers.

When his fight with Tenzin started, I expected that Tenzin will outclass him with his airbending skills, and toss him around a bit, but that eventually Zaheer will manage to close the distance and physically overpower him. Unfortunately the fight was interrupted so I can't know if was right.

Of course there is no proof that he was very strong even before he got his bending, since the first time we saw him he already had airbending powers, and we never saw him fight without powers, but simply based on the way he was portrayed, I think that it is far more likely that he indeed was an extraordinarily good h2h fighter.

Zaheer tried to kidnap Korra when it was discovered that she was the avatar as a child. Her father Tonraq took him down and he was imprisoned.

Tonraq contended with him again while Zaheer had Airbending powers, when they went to break out P'Li,, and was only defeated when P"li joined the fight:

:50-1:05, 2:35-2:45

Tonraq fought Zaheer again on top of the mountain with Korra while she was chained:

#6 Posted by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@storm_calling:

I agree. I also don't undertand how Aang didn't harp on getting Tenzin to be able to meditate properly. Aang could do it at 12, but I suppose he needed this ability more since he's the Avatar, so his teachers made sure he could do it. It's still something Tenzin should have in his arsenal. Though it isn't necessarily an offensive boost, and Firbenders/Waterbenders/Earthbenders don't need to enter the spirit world to be masters. Aang has done some pretty impressive Airbending, and if he taught Tenzin extensively, then it should show more often:

At :25 we even see Monk Gyatso improvise and surf on his glider while training with Roku. Theoretical airbending knowledge Zaheer has read about shouldn't trump actual training Aang has had from Gyatso, and that Tenzin has recieved from his father since childhood.

#7 Edited by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaheer's prowess makes little sense given the short amount of time he's been bending, but he more than likely has been studying airbending culture and history for some time, as well as meditation and practicing air nomad combat forms. Unless he predicted the coming of the harmonic convergence, I don't see why he already is able to so naturally and effectively airbend, allowing him to contend with masters with only months of bending (if that) after years of prison. Such as when he fought Kya and the White Lotus on Air Temple Island, or when he first got free and faced 4 White Lotus prison guards:

Even though Zaheer took on multiple White Lotus masters simultaneously, breaking out himself and Ghazan, he somehow wasn't able to touch Tenzin. When they fought, Zaheer did not do a single technique on Tenzin that was not evaded or countered, even at point blank range, while Tenzin struck Zaheer several times in the fight. Tenzin had Zaheer on the run their entire battle, and Zaheer was not able to put down Tenzin until 3 other powerful benders joined in. Zaheer didn't land anything on Tenzin until backup arrived.

Zaheer does techniques that Tenzin's sense of responsibility prevent him from replicating. He has a family to raise and an entire civilization to uphold, so he can't "sever earthly tethers" and fly. His morals also will prevent him from restricting someone's air supply like Zaheer did to the Earth Queen and Korra, but Tenzin's mastery would allow him to get out of it if used on him.

Tenzin has also improved on techniques Aang used to do like turning the Air Ball:

Into and Air Cycle:

I doubt we've seen everything Tenzin can do, since he's been trained from birth by Aang to revive the entirety of Airbending culture and heritage, and Aang was trained for 12 years by the most powerful Airbender of his time, Monk Gyatso, who impressively managed to kill several comet-enhanced firebenders solo. But honestly, the show really could do a better job of making Tenzin look good.

Zaheer's flight ability makes most think he would now be able to defeat Tenzin due to speed and mobility. I think Tenzin would put up a good fight, but I would like to see something in season 4 to put more confidence in the stance that he could win. Tenzin still has his glider, and can make huge bursts of air to propel himself as he has done before. Tenzin has also displayed much larger/more powerful bursts of air than we've seen Zaheer produce when in combat mode:

:50-1:15, 2:55-3:30 VS Equalists and Mecha Tanks,

but Zaheer unlocked an ability only one other ancient master in history shares with him, aside from any avatar state bender. The flight ability is a huge edge. I'm on the fence, leaning toward Tenzin due to superior expertise given Zaheer's short time bending. He wasn't attacking Korra much when he flew, just using air pressure change to throw her around, all of which Tenzin could counter since he isn't poisoned. Zaheer would need to be more straightforward in a fight with Tenzin, which Tenzin has handled before.

#8 Edited by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@full123 said:

10 Shaolin Monks would be too much for Cap, let alone SIX HUNDRED.

#9 Posted by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by velle37 (6059 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde:

At 3:20 Mako resists Amon and he's not even a waterbender, just strong willed. At 4:40 Korra resists bloodbending as well and overpowers Amon with airbending alone.

At :15 Katara resists being bloodbent by master waterbender Hama. At 2:20 she bloodbends Hama who is not able to break free in the same way.

Amon would have trouble bloodbending multiple masters of this caliber. Due to Katara's emotional reaction to Hama forcing bloodbending upon her it's debatable the extent that she may have taught Kya. Though we have seen Katara vengeful, such as when she tracked down her mother's killer.

Tonraq has spiritual powers that critically factor into this battle, and Korra also has the Avatar state. I think it's feasible that multiple characters could resist Amon and Tarrlok.