VeganDiet

@deranged_midget: i read up to the issue after his mom died and he was working in that diner. Got to there and didn't feel the tug to keep reading futher. Perhaps previous gripes i have with the concept/character are influcing me still /shrugs. However the art is awesome.

For me, the best written Spider-Man versus Wolverine fight remains, by far, the graveyard fight. Aside from most accurately depicting what would go down between the two in a brawl (I emphasize brawl, because one has to scratch ones head and wonder why Parker didn't use his webbing) it was an absolutely incredibly well written fight (aside from the absence of webbing). It highlighted Parker, little more than a teen with superpowers, fighting a natural born superhuman killer. Parker picked up on the aura of death Wolverine exudes, and knew he was going up against one of the deadliest on the planet, and the writing on this point was spectacular and enriched both characters as a result. His fear was as palpable as his bravery. It's those types of scenes, of fights, that have endeared me to both Parker and Logan over the years.

Unfortunately, they are a diamond in the rough.

So, to turn around and say Spider-Man has Wolverine outclassed is just incorrect on so many levels. I feel Wolverine loses via incapacitation. But would beat Parker for a majority (not all, but majority) in a flat out brawl.

EDIT: And F__K me if this hasn't turned into another Spider-Man versus Wolverine thread. Damn.

@vegandiet:

So despite no damage being shown, despite the Green Goblin not looking hurt or even knocked back, despite him being able to fight just fine afterwards, and Peter talking as if the attack amped him, you're sticking with that attack doing the most damage?

Going nova on people that can't just absorb his attack doesn't really do anything. Especially considering Johnny was unconscious right before this?

Do you have any feats of him surviving such attacks when his fire was off or was drained? Legitimately asking. Do you really think Johnny is meant to be in the same league of durability as GG?

I'm not saying it actually healed him, as that's never been stated, but going by how his powers were constantly growing, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I'd never try to pass it off as hard evidence; it's just something interesting to speculate on.

I'll agree he was written lower than before, but there is simply no evidence that HT's attack did much, or any damage, to Green Goblin the second time.

After how he KOed Goblin the first Nova around, I will say it should still added damage the second. The first attack did Goblin the most damage IMO. Second added to it. Simple as that to me.

Say what?

He feat against GG is near the same against Namor. He was Flamed up, explosion happen, and was Unflammed.Same thing I just posted with Namor. Flame Up, Hit Ship with force, flame down. As for HT Durability feats, he has very little feats to begin with. He has some good one however in Blunt Damage. Including being hit and slammed around by Iron Man suits, Namor, whole trees, ect....

I agree. It could be something there I never considered.

OK. Im convinced then. I still like to think the purpose of HT attacking Goblin first with all he had twice was to give a reason how he would been weak enough for Spidey to supposedly kill him.

@vegandiet:

You said earlier that HT's attack did the lion's share of the damage in that fight. Have you changed your mind now?

No, Human Torch has insane feats when going all out.

.

Gallery

Burns out Dr. Doom's Insects.

Turns Glass into Gas with his heat.

Gallery

Scan 1-2: Going Nova on Namor.

Scan 3-4: Going Nova on Hyperion.

That attack he did to Osborn was single handily the most brutal attack 10 fold! Followed up by a second one would have had affect Goblin in some way.

So explosive force that didn't significantly harm a human teenager or even knock him that far away did significant damage to the Green Goblin?

Torch also has insane Durability feats!

.

Smashed through a a freaking Cruiser size Ship! Still alive and well!

So yes, that would not damage that Teenage boy :)

I'd like to add that before HT's attack Green Goblin was missing a horn and had a broken jaw. Afterwards, his horn had regrown and his jaw was fine. Looks more like the fire attack healed him than harmed him, honestly.

..... Your right. That is something I never noticed before nor anyone ever pointed it out..... It could be Artist forgetting what he had drawn in details, his bio makes no mention of Healing via Fire. However he does have a very active Healing Factor. Maybe it regrew in that time.

I have no hard counter to that.

Peter draws blood with one blow before the Human Torch's assault. Norman is on his knees and unable to follow for a few panels after this. This is in reply to you asking for evidence of him being hurt before HT's attack.

You haven't laid out a single fact. You've posted baseless speculation and nothing more.

Again, show me proof that the explosive force did any damage to GG at all.

Hey, how about waiting for me to reply instead of being an ass about it and putting words in my mouth?

I think any damage is damage added. You get punched in the face by someone half your sized, it may not hurt then, but next day good chance you have a bruise showing where the damage was done regardless you felt it.

This is real world knowledge. GG is taking damage and took major damage from Torch first. This may have taxed his healing. Taking a second would not be any better regardless absorbing the fire aspect for added fire power.

Jashro said it best then. GG was written pretty low in Death of Spider Man. If he stays dead, that was his lowest showings over all. I rationalize it with Human Torch causing way to much damage from the get gos and thus doing the Leg Work. I still stand by that considering Human Torches attacks >>>>> Spider Man with a truck.

@vegandiet: Show me evidence any attack hurts him.

He was never harmed or dropped by any other attack. The first scans of HT he burned Goblin and used Explosive force that Temporary KOed GG.

Then he does the same again with the same Explosive Force of his Fire Plasma to GG. We know he used Explosive force because we seen for a fact Human Torch being blown away at a angle instead of a dead drop.

Did it superbly harm GG? Maybe not, it was damage added regardless along with the first major Torch attack. With Mary Jane hitting him. With Spidey truck slams. With the truck explosion.

To say the explosive blast of Torch did nothing is foolish and very showing of your inability to see the facts that I layed out 3 times now.

Im sure you will simply reply with a simple "Nah Uh" post in reply, so I guess we will agree to disagree on how wrong you are.

He absorb the fire, we see this, were does Absorbing the Explosive force come in? If he work that way the Exploding Truck would not have KOed him.

Your clearly wrong here.....