Ultimate Joker's forum posts

#1 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

This would be a great fight to watch. Be like Neo vs. Agent Smith, only possibly more epic. Strictly hand-to-hand, the favor is grossly in Madrox's favor. Both men are superb fighters based solely on the fact Madrox had clones of himself learn different fighting styles before he re-absorbed them to gain that knowledge. Just for argument's sake, I will say that Batman is the superior fighter because he's practiced since he was young, while Madrox has practiced in a much shorter amount of time (to my understanding of the character). However, fighting skill is nothing when your opponent can create a hundred, two hundred, or even HIGHER numbers JUST from stomping his foot over and over and over. 
 
Batman is smart enough to catch on that kinetic force of some kind is all that is required. Each punch, each kick, everything is creating duplicates. Batman will no doubt switch tactics. Switch to using tear gas, flash bangs, whatever he may have that can cause a great amount of confusion and disorientation to the dupe mob. This, however, does not guarantee victory for Batman. He may even retreat -- the smart move -- but this would mean Multiple Man indeed wins the fight. I can very easily see Batman coming equipped with knockout gas, flashbangs, and much more to take Madrox down in a rematch or if he has prep-time. A flashbang, some smoke pellets, and some knockout gas. Jamie may just lose the match then. However, this would be handing Batman a victory. If Jamie has equal prep-time, he'll bring weapons and such all his own. Before going into the fight, he may even make a dozen clones just to be on the safe side. 
 
Either way one slices it, this would not be an easy battle unless Batman has plot convenience. I don't see Jamie winning quickly either, but I wouldn't be surprised if he won after a long and drawn out battle. Given the way I assume this fight starts, I'll say Batman eventually retreats and thus I declare Jamie the winner. Round 2 may be a lot different, but not if Jamie is careful and on his toes..... all of himselves... =p

#2 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio
@Full_Spectrum said:

" alex's flesh can stop artillery rounds. i'm doubting the terminator can put a dent in him. blades and bullets are all but useless against him. on the other hand, mercer could just club the terminator until he started glitching. "

Sorry, but "club him until he starts glitching" is a HUGE assumption. Being frozen in liquid nitrogen vs. getting slammed and smashed a bunch are two totally different things. I'm going to copy/paste parts of a message I posted on a different site in hopes that I can at least keep these baseless assumptions to a minimum, but also state who I feel has the upperhand.

Notice: Please read the following with full knowledge that it's responding to a totally different site and comments. (I'm just too lazy to re-word it is all.) =p


Let's start with simple factors here, and those would be each character's basic abilities and traits.


{Strength}: I recall someone in here stating that the T-1000 was as strong or close to Alex Mercer's strength. Hell no. If that were the case, would the T-1000 not have just lifted up the cop car John Connor, Sarah, and the T-800 were in and spiked it into the pavement? Would the T-1000 not have crushed the T-800 like a pancake? The T-800s do not weigh more than or even close to equal a car, because if they did then they'd crush the very vehicles (motorcycles/cars/trucks) they sit in/on. Because the fact the T-1000 and T-800 had close to equal strength, but neither weighed /that/ much, it was a fairly even hand-to-hand encounter each time. The T-1000 was only ever able to slam the lesser machine into walls and stuff, and only by a combination of a spike, heavy crane, and moving gears does it inflict any true damage to it. 

The T-1000 was just as equally tossed around the place by the early series of Terminator, getting punched and slammed into -- and /through/ -- walls. The T-800, while impossibly strong by human standards, is also not strong enough to lift up a car, let alone run with it in it's arms and scale buildings, but the two machines struggled with one another regardless. There is a _HUGE_ strength gap in this battle here. A much better comparison in strength for Mercer would be the Grey Hulk or perhaps Carnage (a Spider-Man villain). Mercer was able to pound buildings into the ground, punch holes in Abrams tanks, and much more. The T-1000 never managed a feat even REMOTELY close to this, and had it been on such a level, John Connor would have been dead in minutes even with the T-800 protecting him.



{Speed}: This one isn't /quite/ as mismatched as strength, but again, Mercer takes the win in this department hands down. The T-1000 (or rather Robert Patrick) always had a wonderful sprint in T2, and I loved watching that killing machine chase after it's target because even when I knew the outcome, it still looked like it WOULD catch up. The problem here is when we compare not only the vehicles and circumstances each character was in, but the agility that was entered into the mix as well. I am no expert on vehicles by any stretch of the imagination, but when a cop car going backwards can keep the T-1000 just out of reach, while cars of various kinds driving /forwards/ can't outpace Mercer, then I think I can easily assume who is faster just from that example. Granted, the T-1000 was also being impeded by gunfire from both Sarah and the T-800 (Uncle Bob if you want to be silly). This, however, is a weak excuse for making the argument that the T-1000 under more normal circumstances would have caught up to, say, Mercer if it were a situation like that.

The fact is Mercer is far more agile and has the unique ability of being very hard to stop from moving, even when entire BUILDINGS are in his way. The 'man' can scale the building in a matter of seconds, running up the side like he was running on the ground. He can also stay in the air for ridiculous amounts of time, allowing even more options for travelling while the T-1000 never displayed such abilities. If it had such capabilities, it would have continued chasing after our heroes in T2 regardless. Instead, it slows down to a walk, recovers the chunk of itself that was blown off by the 10 gauge shotgun, then turns in the opposite direction to gather any intel and transportation it can manage so that it can reacquire it's target at a later time. If it had been Mercer that was chasing after them, they would have all been terminated back inside the mental institute in the hallway. Even granting that they still somehow manage to escape to outside in the cop car, Mercer would have gotten ahold of their vehicle one way or the other and smashed it into the ground.


{Endurance}: This is where things actually get interesting. For starters, Mercer cannot harm or absorb the T-1000. At best, he can rip it to shreds and try to keep the pieces away from each other, else it will merely reform and resume it's attack. Going from what we've seen thus far, it takes a helluva lot of stuff to hurt Mercer, and only a few very specific things to truly damage or stop the T-1000. Molten steel and liquid nitrogen were the only two things that did ANYTHING of any note against the mimetic polyalloy Terminator. Even then, at most the freezing only caused it to glitch to a degree, which at most made it slower, weaker at disguising itself, and cause minor glitches of no real note in other departments. (It's top half was the police officer outfit from the start, while the lower half was the biker cop look. Fun little factoid there for anyone that didn't notice.) Aside from these things, everything else did not actually damage it.

However, we must look at it from a diffent angle. It is true that only a small number of things can damage/kill the T-1000, while a greater number of things can damage/kill Mercer. The problem is that the things that don't kill/hurt the T-1000 still slow it down or even stun it. It's multiple encounters with the T-800 are evidence of this. Sufficiently sustained gunfire can even KO it for a few moments. Not counting the final battle when it was glitched, the T-1000 was KO'ed at least twice by the lesser Terminator. Once during their first encounter (via the 1887 Winchester) and a second time during the tanker chase (via a full magazine from a CAR-15 assault rifle straight to the chest and face). These instances were extremely rare and I'd even be willing to accept the argument that it was for plot reasons, but I'd have to hear a good explanation to truly buy it. Everything else made it flinch or stagger for a brief moment.

Mercer, on the other hand, has tanked shells from Abrams, missiles fired from combat choppers, grenades, rockets, heavy machine gun fire, and continued to run at nearly top speed. At most, he's been tossed around a bit and injured, but any of these things would splatter the T-1000 and force it to reform. Case in point, one grenade round blew it to pieces, and one shotgun blast straight to the head split it in two and caused it to fall down for a moment. Alex does not suffer from these weaknesses. He's pretty stout.


The best way to temporarily win this battle is to simply grab the T-1000 -- just like the T-800 did numerous times in the movie -- and throw the liquid metal assassin far away with all his strength. Thus we have a BFR (Battlefield removal) and a temporary victory, though the T-1000 will sooner or later return. The T-1000 has a better chance of inflicting actual damage on Mercer, however. Stabbing him, hitting him with plenty force. It _can_ hurt Mercer, but Mercer is rarely a sitting duck and has access to numerous different methods of attack, as well as various mutations. Mercer can naturally heal to a point, and he can play keep-away far better than the liquid death machine. Thus we MUST assume that the T-1000 would have gained access to some forms of weapons. If this is purely a melee battle, then we're going to be waiting for someone to win for a long, looong time.

Short of Mercer (magically) whipping out liquid nitrogen or lava (LOL) he has no real means of terminating or even HURTING the T-1000. Despite all of the advantages he has over the machine, he just can't kill it unless he somehow gets his hands on a very few specific weapons - *sigh* or pushes him into the volcano. *rolls eyes* He could try experimenting against it, but then again so would the T-1000. I avoided talking about the two characters' stealth/infiltration capabilities because the two of them wouldn't need them in straight-up combat with no other bystanders around, but I think a better scenario would be a cat and mouse chase. Have Mercer hiding from it in a limited location, and arm the T-1000 with some weaponry that can be effective against his target. Give him some electrical weapons (I read the Alex vs. Cole battle and saw the outcome of that one; very interesting debate) and access to plenty of vehicles/weapons. Force Mercer to have to use his other abilities and give the T-1000 an advantage in weapons and equipment. Handicap Alex so this can become a much more even battle. Now THAT would be an epic battle rather than this melee fight in a volcano nonsense.   
   
There. That's my two cents.
#3 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

What weapons does the T-1000 have at it's disposal? Are vehicles such as helicopters or trucks available for either character to use? Is it purely hand-to-hand? What's the location? Is it a cat and mouse hunt with either one or both attempting to hide from the other, and infiltrate some building?

#4 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio
@eldestrisk said:
" @Ultimate Joker: Not many has been shown. Aside from the spell that he casted twice using the soul from fallen partners to bring forth demons. He had a magical battle with Illyana Rasputin AKA Magik, where he was able to control his abilities in a magical realm. He also was able to enter an state much similar to the astral plane, but with magic instead of psychic abilities. He also combined his magic with technology to escape from an alternate reality he was trapped with Storm. There are more examples but I can't seem to remember. Hope this was helpful. "
Hey, thanks man. Every little bit counts. =)
#5 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

I love Hulk. Easily one of my favorite heroes from Marvel, but the horrendous overhyping makes it almost shameful to be fan of his. Not Hulk's fault. I love Wolverine a lot too, but he gets overused to the point of embarrassment much like a few of my other favorite heroes and villains. A shame. 
 
Anyhow, there are PLENTY of people who can beat Hulk, and I'm really not in the mood to list a huge amount but I'll say that out of some of my other favorite Marvel villains, Magneto, Dr. Doom, and even Juggernaut to a lesser degree can beat Hulk. The trick for Juggernaut is to go for the KO in the very beginning or else it's just going to be a stalemate like almost ALL their other encounters. Magneto and Doom I don't even have to defend - they speak for themselves. 
 
(and I just know someone is going to try and make a poor case against them, but I just don't care to argue)

#6 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to say that Zatanna has a shot in the first encounter, although not a perfect shot in the slightest stretch of the imagination, and has even more reduced chances heavily in Doom's favor on the second match. 
 
Still, it'd be an interesting battle.... unless it ended within seconds by either combatant. <.<

#7 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

Awww man. Come now! Surely somebody has the information and is willing to share it. =(

#8 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

Anybody got some scans? I'd love to see some visual examples. =)

#9 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio

Bumpity bump for my pal, here. Anyone with a better understanding of their feats that can give a good answer?

#10 Posted by Ultimate Joker (802 posts) - - Show Bio
@Icarusflies said:
" @Ultimate Joker: Did they make a comic adaptation of the Dark Knight? I know they did for Batman Begins. "
That's basically what I'm asking. Don't know where this is from or anything, but that scene IS clearly from The Dark Knight.