@DangerousLoki: ok now just because you dont find what batman has done impressive in your standards doesnt take anything from it. you said i cant give ozy credit when you cant even give batman credit in that right. but hey i wont stress it the proof is in the pudding anyway. you said i cant tell you when ozy has lost to another genius you know why i cant because he simply hasnt even fought one. matter fact he hasnt fought anybody on a high level. while batman has fought many rather it was a battle of intellect or fists he has done it. ozy hasnt plain and simple. rather you want to admit it or not is totally up to you. until ozy faces a real threat like batman has many times then i can rate him higher but to this date he has not and there is nothing you can show that will proove otherwise.
tjizz350's forum posts
@Xanni15: That's pretty awesome. I need to pick up that series.
@tjizz350: Whether Batman is more intelligent than Ozy remains to be seen. Ozy managed to block and avoid a man who can see the future. He managed to hold the entirety of his plan in check until it was too late to stop him. Etc. Ozy is implied at being somewhere above Sherlock Level of intelligence. Bats is implied as being just below. He's intelligent but most of that lies purely in combat startegies and not overall planning. He's been manipulated, misled, deceived, controlled, and other wise fooled by people of his intellect level such as Joker, Ra's, Riddler, Lex Luthor, and others. Whether you believe Ozy is smarter or not is debatable at the best of times, but I would personally give a battle of wits to Ozy 7 out of 10 times over Bats.
@DangerousLoki: you said it was implied that batman was below sherlock holmes and ozy was on sherlock holmes level of intelligence. you also said most of his intelligence lies in combat strategies and not overall planning. you also gave a battle of wits 7 to 10 ozy favor. because batman has been fooled by others who rival his own intelligence he is suppose to be less than ozy? i dont understand that logic because first of all even with that happening he still manages to come out on top. second as i keep stating ozy has not faced any of these opponents before. so how is he above him when people like these dont even exist in his world? you already know my stance on the dr manhattan situation no need to repeat that. so basically you want to say batman is not smarter than ozy but ozy is smarter than batman.
@DangerousLoki: no i did not put them on equal footing. please do tell when i did this. your argument first was that he was smarter than batman which he hasnt shown enough to proove that. then you said batman would take the majority. then you said it would be a draw so now you say batman takes a majority again. my point is and always was that batman wins. this is nothing he has never faced before. you still didnt answer my question either. you keep avoiding it. when has ozy ever faced anyone like batman? what superhumans has he ever defeated? i mean actually defeated the feat you gave me wasnt a true victory. in order to be placed equal with batman these are things he needs to show. do you get what im saying? now in terms of people being equal to batman i would consider people like black panther or captain america you look across the board at everything and they all balance out pretty much.
@DangerousLoki: first of all it was a combination of quantity and quality not only did i speak on the the number i made sure to speak on the quality of the feat as well. and yes batman was very clever for coming up with a way to stop the justice league it still took brains to do it ozy hasnt done anything like that before which was my point. it really doesnt matter to me if you can do it or not. second i still did not put ozy on batmans level i did give him respect but i didnt go as far as to put him on equal footing with batman i also recall saying that on the same comment. you seem to take my words and either you are not fully reading what i am saying or you just interpreting them in your own way. the point of this thread is to find out who would win between these two. which even you broke down and said yourself batman wins 6.7/7 times out of 10 basically giving bats the majority. then you went back and called it a draw you argument has really been all over the place. whenever you cant find a way to counter what i am referring to you choose not to speak on it. you still have yet to give me a feat of ozy actually defeating a superhuman opponent or even anoither person who rivals his own intelligence. what happened to that? batman has done this many times. you even said batman has struggled with people like ozy before but like i said the point is he still won. the only thing you spoke on was the feat i used for batman making a plan against the justice league and you tried to downplay it by saying you can do it. i used that as an example of how dangerous batman was you should be making an argument for ozy not yourself. once again i ask has ozy done this. still who does he have in his world that he can compare to lex luthor, darksied, or deathstroke all of which batman has faced. ozy only claim to fame was thinking he defeated manhattan.
@DangerousLoki: look if its that easy for you to go look at my earlier comments and see that. which yes i do believe because i also stated that batman has more competition. but if you will go back and look at my last 2 replies to you. you will see where i actually said myself that ozy has done impressive things. its right there just go look as you did when you looked up my other comment and you can even post it. just because i dont ooo and ahh like you do at his feats dont mean i have no respect for them. so i am not dismissing or ignoring anything when i gave him credit. yes i said he is the smartest in the watchmen universe while batman is one of the smartest minds in the entire dc universe. which is more the watchmen universe which consists of a handful of street level heros and one other intelligent person being dr manhattan while the universe batman exists in has too many heros to count some street levelers the rest superhumans which include many intelligent minds. you still counting what he did to dr manhattan as something you can compare to what batman did with darksied and superman thats 2 vs one and thats only 2 feats and batman has many more to add to that. first you say he only uses battle strategy now you say he exploits weaknesses. that really doesnt matter anyway he beat 2 people who outclass him in physical stats by miles. once again i state ozy didnt even beat manhattan he simply reginerated can you give me a feat of him doing something to another person who actually has superhuman abilities. or do you have him fighting with someone who rivals him in intellect, fighting skills, speed, etc. thats my point he doesnt really have that. batman has tons of these feats. you cant take one feat and compare it to another character who has many of similar feats and put them on equal footing. the only way that works is if the only way that works is if that feat was just so far out of reach for that character to match. as when you tried to use my blue marvel vs superman example against me. in which that didnt even work because you mentioned things blue marvel never has really done. yes ozy has caught a bullet and has done things that indicate that he may have superhuman speed. but for one he is listed as peak human unless there were some changes made. even with that this is the same case with cassandra cain who batman has fought before. another point i keep making is batman has fought people similar to ozy before but ozy hasnt fought anyone like batman before you keep ignoring that because you have no argument for it. if you really look at my original point which started this you will see that i pretty much said the same thing just in shorter words. all you are looking at is the fact that i said he isnt smarter than batman. so you taking it as me discrediting him. the reason why i say that is simply because he hasnt faced the type of situations batman has its as simple as that. he is in a world where he outclass everyone in intelligence. hes not competing against people like lex luthor, deathstroke, brainiac, darksied, etc. even superman has said himself that batman is the most dangerous man in the universe. an enemy even stole his plans to stop the justice league (as i mentioned earlier) and it was successful until batman stepped in to stop it something which enemies have tried for decades and failed batmans plan worked and it took him to comeup with a counter stategy. he used superman and martian manhunters weaknesses but the setup was what really made it that much more impressive by placing them in situations they would react to. but he affected green lantern emotionally by setting it up to make it appear that he failed to save a woman leaving him distraught and feeling like he wasnt worthy of his ring anymore. he used flash greatest strength against him his speed since he doesnt really have any real weaknesses. he made him run non while having to maintain a specific speed if he stops or if he breaks stride hes done for. everyone knows wonder woman is weak against sharp objects but instead of using that he used her greatest strength as well which is her will to not give up. she was placed in a situation where she would continue to fight believing she was fighting the enemy when it was actually allies. these situations he not only exploited weaknesses he used one persons emotions. the other 2 strengths against them. it took not only knowing what would affect them and their personality traits. but he used specific situations, times,and places because of course it couldnt look obvious as they would know its a trick. this is an example of how dangerous batman is. once again ozy is impressive but he has never done anything to this level. he only has one feat of him vs a superhuman level opponent in his whole career. when batman has 5 in one comic. so yes he is great but you really cant compare that. he has enough skill to give batman a fight but in the end batman will pull out a win he has beat too many people who outclass him drastically not to. this is also nothing different from anything he as already faced. it will all be new to ozy which will make it more difficult for him to adjust.
@DangerousLoki: ok so your trying to go with the whole a, b, c logic thing. my argument is not flawed the way at which you are looking at it is flawed. how can i even go by a logic like that when they havent even fought the same people? you are comparing a universe with one great fighter and one superhuman to a universe that has many great fighters and who knows how many superhumans. i will bring nightwing in this he has fought a few thugs in his time. he struggled here and there. so comparing him to say night owl. so would you say night owl is better? i never even said batman wins easily either i just said he will win. regardless of how you look at the situation with manhattan all he did was slow him down really. he thought he won and manhattan reginerated how does that even count as a win? last time i checked a win was when a person was knocked out or dead. the differnece between batman vs superman and ozy vs manhattan is batman actually defeated superman manhattan just reginerated himself as if nothing happened. the fact that he can see the past,present , and the future actually negates that feat rather than making it an accomplishment. he already saw that ozy was gonna use it on him and he knew he would reginerate so he allowed it to happen. if he knew it would end in a bad result he would have just avoided the situation hence its not a true victory. he even said he learned how to reginerate a long time ago not his exact words but it was along those lines. he did neither. the main argument im making is that batman has more difficult opponents and more dangerous threats. thats why i place him above ozy all the extra things i added is just me backing up my claim. while you mention batman exploiting weaknesses which is pretty much what you do with prep and he does it when he faces superhuman opponents pretty much the same thing ozy did when he made a device to destry dr manattan is that not exploiting a weakness? like i also said batman has only truely struggled against skilled opponents he has handled thugs easily. when he has struggled against people like ozy he still won thats the point i never said how he would win rather it would be easy or hard i just said he wins you just assumed i was saying it would be easy. also to add to that has ozy ever faced anyone like batman before? how can you make a reference like that and say batman has struggled against people similar to ozy when you cant even supply an example of ozy facing someone like batman. the fact is he hasnt so how do you know how he will perform? you are pretty much using the same logic that you claim i am using by saying he beat rorshach and night owl easily he should be able to beat bats. and sat there and made a case for ozy all this time and still basically said batman wins the majority which makes this a wasted argument because that was what i been saying all along. so now i close this case.
@DangerousLoki: first off blue marvel has never even done any of that so trying to make it a point isnt really working anyway. i even commented on ozy skill myself and gave him respect i recall saying myself that he has done impressive things did i not. yes doctor manhattan reassembled himself which is actually something he should have been prepared for sice he was smart enough to know how his powers worked. next issues batman has struggle with people who actually have skills so for him to struggle is not a knock against him. not to mention that the people he has strgguled with have actually been great fighters themselves. also they tend to have powers to add to thier skill. i know very well about how he beat two seasoned crime fighters with ease. neither of those guys are near batmans level either. werent they like pass their prime come on. who have they fought that makes them so great? batman would likely do the same to them. i doubt either of them are above nightwing. yes it is fair to compare them based on feats because you are speaking on ozy feats trying to compare him to batman so why cant i speak on batmans feats to counter it. so no its not bias its just being realistic if batman out weighs him in feats so badly why even make a case. the point is simple batman has faced people like ozy before intelligent with great fighting skill ok. on the other hand ozy just has never been in that situation no matter how you try to turn it nothing will change that. once again i repeat even if i give him the nod and say he is faster and stronger than batman how many times have we seen batman face someone with those same odds and still come out on top. what about his tools and weapons the guy has everything from a can opener to an explosive equipped to put down a person with high durability. has ozy ever defeated a superhuman opponent? i think not. has he even faced someone who is as skilled or intelliegent as himself? i think not. you even tried to go as far as try to say batman doesnt really plan things out he mainly uses battle stradegy. when batman biggest asset is how he preps. he has even faced a guy just like himself (owl man) and came out on top. he is even able to get to his opponents by talking to them and finding out what makes them tick causing them to loose focus. i say that batman is more impressive not just because he has done more but because he has also done it at a higher level of difficulty. his opponents simply out class any opponents ozy has faced. its like playing a game on easy and playing it on hard one person does it without a challenge while the other works for it. but the person who beats it on easy doesnt get the same respect as the if they beat it on hard. it doesnt matter if you got all perfects yea its cool and all makes you look good but it wasnt even a challenge because you were on such a higher level than your opponents. now if you beat it on hard yes its tougher and you have to work harder you barely get wins but the fact that you beat it on a higher level places you above them its just that simple. matter fact if the person who plays on easy all of a sudden goes to hard its a big adjustment the moves that easily worked dont work anymore, flaws that you never saw in yourself get exposed. you may catch it you may not either way its a big adjustment and something you have never encountered before, which makes things more difficult to you. while the person who has been doing it on hard is like hmm i have seen this challenge before so im ready for it. now once again ozy is a cool character i have the watchmen movie in my collection. i just cant put him on equal footing with batman. those characters are basically in their own world if they came to batmans universe and saw people flying around, running at ridiculous speeds, and lifting skyscrapers. they would all be in a state of shock.
@DangerousLoki: ok ozy is intelligent he is the most intelligent man in his world his best competition is doctor manhattan. he didnt really outsmart manhattan either doctor m just aggreed with his tactics. batman on the other hand is in a world where he is competing against others who have intelligence that rivals his own. we talking about a human that beats superhuman opponents on a regular basis. he even made a plan of his own to stop the justice league in case they went rogue. something nobody has successfully been able to do by the way. guess who they called to stop it thats right batman. ozy has never even been really battle tested he just looks so great because he is so high above his opponents. yes batman looses some battles in his universe because he faces more skilled opponents. matter fact ozy has never even faced no where near the kind of threats batman has faced. ozy blew up a city because he felt like it was no other solution he has balls to do that. batman rerouted darksieds explosives(very high tech i might add) and threatened to blow up the entire planet just to convince darksied to let supergirl go i say it takes bigger balls to do that even darksied had respect for that. rather its battle stradegy or not ozy still has not done anything on this level. has ozy ever faced joker, riddler, lex luthor or anybody of that nature, no he hasnt so to assume he will easily win is just being bias he has never been in a situation like that. on top of that what kind of villians has he faced? how skilled were they? these are the kind of questions i ask with someone like him all i have seen are street thugs. besides batman is a detective so he is more than just a battle strategist anyway my friend. a good example of some one who only uses battle stradegy is captain america batman pretty much always plans ahead. batman is regarded as one of the best h2h combatants in the dc universe. yes there are people that are better but it takes great skill to even be considered on batmans level. ozy is never put in this category why because he is only in his world where there isnt any real competition. so people can posts scans all day but his handful of feats still dont scratch the surface of batmans many feats. catching a bullet does not equal being able to beat batman. he has defeated people faster and stronger than him many times before. its still debatable if ozy even surpasses him in these category because he is still listed as peak human. so at the end of the day batman wins end of story. i am not hating on ozy at all he has done some great things but to really put him on equal footing with bats he will have to be place with th rest of the dc universe. you wouldnt compare superman to someone who has limited battles would you. people will quickly say he hasnt shown enough pretty much like the blue marvel vs superman thread. blue marvel is great has some awesome feats hasnt really shown any limits but its still not enough to really say he can beat superman.
Batman. He lives in a world where he actually has competition. Ozy's never fought anyone even near his own level.
thank you very much this is what i have been trying to tell all these watchmen fans. if ozy fought anybody on batmans level then i would reconsider. people please stop saying he is smarter because he is not we talking about one of the most clever minds in the dcu not just a guy that is the smartest in his world.