thveej's forum posts
No use to arguing with you here since you clearly have no clue about how an actual fight takes place. You do not understand the fundemental's of distance footwork and reach. And no I am definitely not one the people who thinks you need to be a fighter to analysis a fight, if you have watch any amount of actual fighting; from boxing, to Karate tournament, to TKD tourny, K-1 fights, MT fights, wrestling, Grappling, or MMA you would actually understand my concerns about the reach and size advantage Lesner has. The same way you suggest that I go read up on Bruce style; which I will because I know the basic and ahve not dwell in it in depth, you should actually take time to watch some actual fights to know what I am talking about. Because it is very hard to argue with someone who think Bruce Lee leg is long enough to stand on the outside and leg kick Lesner; that would require Lee to be something in the range of 6'4 and not 5'9.
Second the thread started said "clean street fight" so by his account there is no eye gouging or any dirty move, it is essentially an MMA fight on the streets.
If this was't a clean street fight Lee would bust out nunchakus and totallly rape lesner, but in an essence we are talking about a street fight with mma rules
Third if you think MMA fighters are jokes you have no Idea, as I stated before many many MMA fighters are street fighting legend Such as Lighting Lee Muarry, and Bass Rutten. I can bring instance for example the notorious ufc 37 (or 38 i am not sure) where a pack of UFC fighters in England were engage in an all out brawl. Witness say at one point Chuk Liddell knocked out 10 people in a row. Recently the overeem brothers took on 7 bouncers and beat the crap out of them. during UFC 1- 40 the sport was very different, and notorious street fighters were MMA fighters. Look no further than Tank Abbot who's style was Street Fighting, and who was had hundreds of street fights in californa in the 90s. MMA is not a style, it is called mixed Martial Arts. there is a fighter named Ben Saundres who himself said that he is Jeet Kuan Doe practioner, but he needed to round up his game so he went to ATT (American top team) to learn more BJJ,boxing,wrestling....... people like Anderson Silva also utilise a lot of Jeet Kuan Doe teqniques in their fighting style. MMA is not a style it is a concept mixed martial arts; you take different martail arts and you mix them; it can be anything really. Just people have realized that you need a stand up techniques, ground techniques, what style you get those is your call.
Here is Bass Rutten very famous instructional on how to effectively street fight: Bass Rutten is one of the baddest man on the planet, Former UFC Heavy weight champion, King of Pancrese, and a kickboxing legend and street fighting legend. He then became a MMA trainer and broacaster.
He is also the person who I mentioned before about having the liver kick on the dummy on Fight science. (and this is an old Rutten not prime)
I will mention again later one, while rutten is a very good kicker, his kicks don't even come close to some of the forces generated by other heayweight stand up fighters like Overeem, Crocop, and Semmy Schilt, and sorry for not embeding too lazy lol.
And forth please stop taking what i said out of context...... I don't think I would beat Bruce Lee at all, I said so that I would 99% get beat up and KTFO standing up. I would never even fight bruce based on principles, and i even said the thought of taking a side kick from Bruce is enough for me to soil myself like batman. But it is a matter of fact that on the ground with today's wrestling BJJ skills, a normal practioner of that style would give Lee fits on the ground... not because Lee sucks, because he simply would not know what is happening because it is after his time. And Again if Lee was training now days it would be a different story. All I was talking about is a hypothetical situation where a moderate gr'5appler IF and IF somehow were to able to drag lee on the ground would have an obvious advantage, because ground fighting has changed significntly since 50s and 60s. (Lee was fighting Judo practioners on the ground and they were notirous in stalemating him, and Judo pracitoners mostly do not focus on ground work. My friend who is going for national championship in Canada and who is 300+ 6 '5 and whos dad just got a silver medal in Masters division at last years open; is very good Judoka, but he is mostly a throw guy, on the ground even though im still a white belt and he outweighs me by 140 pounds I can hold him off and have submitted him on some instances, and have gotten absolutely crush on others; if he throw me he would literally kill me but straight grappling I can hold my own) My whole point was ground fighting has changed since Lee time, and it is not fair to Lee to put him up against someone like Lesner.
So plz this is a fight, point to tangible thing that can help, Lee was not the Flash.... he was a peak human condition, and his speed was that of a peak human... he did not have supernatural speed. Lesner is one of the best athlestes in theworld, if you believe that Lee is fast enough to get inside lesner reach and do whatever he wants without lesner doing anything; you are assuming that Lee had supernatural speed which is untrue...
Lesner trains in the heavy weight division, and the fighters he has to face, hit a lot harder than Lee would ever hit; look at guys like Overeem and fedor, cro cop their kicks are considerbly stronger than Lee because of physics it self. These guys train as hard as Lee has and mb not as high technical as Lee are, but are god damn technical themselves; plus having 100+ pounds of inertia and pure force under their kicks and punches. Overeem can easily chop down a stack of Bamboo trees with his kicks, (a traditional MT feat that many many people can acombplish) Lesnar is conditioning himself to fights guys with that kind of firepower.... so atleast I don't think he would get one shotted.
I don't have much more to say to you; if you want to break down the fight realisticly. and look at it as an actual fight of a 145-135 pound stand up master who is was in peeek physical shape 5'8 - 5'9 vs a 300 pound 6'2-6'3 fighter who just happens to be one of the best athletes on the planet right now (and who everyone from his training partners to people he has fought to trainers say has freakish speed and agility that is more common with a man of a 185-200 pound range) who is also a master takedown artist and who has proven to be one of the most durable heay weights on the planet. Then we can talk.
Untill you feioursly claim that Jeet Kuan Doe is the best thing since penicilin, and that somehow bruce lee was the flash, and that somehow his legs are as tall as that of a 6'4 frameand that he litterally kicks harder than a k-1 heavyweight.... well you are living in the fantasy world my friend..
Try to look up some fighters; and not tag anyone in MMA as somehow inferior to that of Bruce Lee, this is "clean street fight" so plz stop trollin
Again I am sure that Lee is technical enough to whoop lesner standing up, but here size is way too much for lee and I don't think he can close down the distance to land atleast enough strikes to finish lesner (who now we know is very durable) without getting taken down (or god forbid counterd, kneed, elbowed, or punched). Most people here think that Lesner needs to close the distance, but its the other way around, and thats why this is a loss for lee i think. Also in a clean street fight lesnar has one punch knockout and while he might not be able to land it, I doubt Lee could one punch or kick lesner that big white Gabriella is kind of a freak of nature
also GSP is the man... Pride of canada
For example I like stand up, but I work on my boxing, I work on my MT clinch and knees and elbows., I work on Traditional karate kicks like side kicks and what not..... even though real Kyokushin had boxing, kicking, and knees, but they were no way as in depth as their specific styles are today, if that makes sense.
For example a guy like GSP a black belt in Kyokushin, while not informed in more detailed moves of his style (specailly the lost arts); he has made up by going around the world and training his boxing, MT, Wrestling and BJJ. Because of his dedication to learn all the different styles of today he is a complete fighter and complete MArtial arts master if he just stuck to "old school" Kyokushin with ground fighting and all he would be no where near as good as he is today. And that is all I wanted to say about the whole Bruce LEE thing, I am sure if Bruce was around he would train everything and be a very good and complete martial artist who would probably chalange for betls around his weight class.........
So then the question would be could someone like Jose Aldo or BJ penn (world best fighters at 145-155) beat Lesner?.......... I don't think so too much weight difference even though both are vastly superior technically gifted fighters. (although I hihgly highly doubt it , who knows mb BJ or Aldo submits Lesner... LOL they are that fing good.... but Bruce Lee from 1950s 60s is sure not gonna submit lesner from the bottom cmon)
Friday I was practicing my sliding hook kick, which is one of Bruce Lee best kicks in my opinion.
Yes I don't nuthug Bruce Lee for no reason, I am far more scared of Bruce Lee side kick..... a practical technique than any crazy one inch punch or "death move" he might have......
And as far as me vs Bruce Lee goes, I said that I would probably get KTFO but if and IF i got a hold of him it would be done.... again this thread said no eye gouging and fish hooking. And again i would neve even fight bruce lee based on prinicple it was just to make a point that fighting has evolved past what Bruce Lee was doing in 1950-60s
I dont even freaking like lesnar but you guys are ridiculous
UK greates street fighter Lee "lighting" Muarry was a MMA fighter. look him up he was both ape shit, and also stole 90 million pounds in the world largest bank heist. he has stories about bar fights where he has done some messed up shit. Also he fought in the ufc.....
First its not speculation......... guys like Jacre and specially Marcelo Garcia have made their own moves and style and have defeated many Gracie. Of curse Roger Gracie (gracie) is still amazing, but my point wise that the sport evolves. As did BJJ todays is a vastlly vastly different sport that that of 1980s and 1990s....
Klitchko would get double legged on his ass and get beaten to a bloody mess... stand up yah he will make lesner cry like a girl
boxing is a different story, it lacks depth in heavyweight division now; but looking at it as a whole guys like Floyd and Pac man are doing stuff never seen before in boxing. Techincally they are much much more sound that older generation boxers.
again lesner has by far more reach than bruce, so it has to be bruce closing down the distance..... think about it for a second.
the reason I said today's martial artist are better, is because they are complete fighters. Old school Karate Master, although obviously masters of their style, did not know about ground fighting and wrestling in depth as fighter do today. MB fighters today are not good at individual styles, or position as older martial artis but they are by far more complete.... case and point GSP
@fallenangel5991:wow way to take what I have out of context.... completely neglecting the last 3 sentence beforehand .. I never said bruce was a fake martial artist and I have a deep respect for him. And I have never ever in my life even been in a street fight, because I never resort to violence at all. I'v been humbled enough time against better fighters to know that there is always someone better than you... all I was trying to prove was that even though Bruce Lee was amazing practitioner of martial arts in 1950-60 s; fighting has changed that is all.
And I'm not even fan of ground fighting. I'm a karate practitioner firsthand, and a kickboxer second; the only reason I practice wrestling and BJJ is so I don't get ridiculed. As a Martial artist you want to be complete, and that is my goal; I don't even plan to have a fighting Currier, I'v done Karate my whole life and I want to be a good martial artist.
@Xavier St. Cloud:
I'm sorry that you completely missed my point. All I was trying to say was that fighting and martial arts have changed since Bruce Lee time; I never disrespected any of Bruce Lee accomplishment. I'm sorry that your brother got angry, I never meant to entice anger or resentment with my post. I apologies. And my hate for Chuck Norris comes from my best Friend's dad, my Master, my head instructors, and everyone who I have met face to face; and whom I consider better martial artist than me. They have all pointed to fights, events, and other aspects to show that Chuck Norris, although good as what he did, was not a true fighter( a huge contrast to Bruce Lee). My best friend dad who I respect emenously and who has a Black Belt in TKD and Karate; and whom spent 5 years fighting in MT tournements; and who is by far the biggest Bruce Lee fan I know, repeatdly has tried to teach me that compare to Lee and benny the jet , great fighters of that era are by far superior martial artist than Chuck Norris. Most the hates comes from the fact that they see Norris as the man who popularized Mac Dojos, a concept that they hate with a passion. And to put it in perspective, I weigh in as a solid 190 pound, and for the life of me I can not hold a heavy bag while my friend dad Side kicks it..... atleast without falling on my ass. He could easily brake my shoulder with a hook kick also.... and I'm no slouch as a stand up fighter. So I hope that make you understand why I would say such a statement about Norris.....
and I never said he only knew one style, I was referring to the dumbass before hand who proclaimed Bruce Lee style to be the end of all style.... because million of people were learning it and so it must be the best....
stil people have not mentioned any "real" reason on how on earth Bruce Lee would be able to stop Lesnar Takedown..... if you're brother trains and fights MMA you should know better.
Feats like what Lee did against that National Karate Champ is great, but gets us no where in the discussion about this fight. It shows nothing that Bruce would be able to avoid lesnar takedown...
Yes Bruce lee was fast, yes his punches were fast and deadly, (his kicks even more), but I'm sorry even for lee to be able to land anything he would have to get into range. Lesner reach is ridiculous his wing span is 81 inch I think (don't quote me on that). I just don't think Bruce has chance in hell engaging lesnar in any sort of close range quarter combat because of his wrestling. We already know he can take absurd amount of punishment from the Carwin fight, so even if bruce lands his best punch (or kick) or even multiplicity of kicks and punches I find hard to believe that punches and kicks would be harder than a falling down elbow from standing position to the ground that lesnar just ate from carwin.... its just physic man. And even if bruce was a master wrestler.... what do u think happens if lesnar fights Joe warren, probably the best wreslter in the world at 145 pounds.... he is gonna take him down. As much as I hate to say, there is WAYYYYYYYY too much size discrepancy here, although like any sane person I would agree that Lee is vastly superior technical striker.
Now for the last time, I dont even like lesnar, I think guys like Fedor, Velasquez, Werdum, and even mb Overeem if he doesn't choke would beat him. (a testament to the fact that size is not everything, as I still think fedor or Velasquez vastly smaller fighters than lesner are gonna be the best heavy weights the sports have seen; because of their superior technique) But I think you are doing a great diss service to martial artist in 2010, and specially to Brock Lesner. Bruce Lee is a legend... but he is product of an era gone; as you said Bruce would have fights here and there with Xingyiqun, Northern Shaolin, Thi Chi Quan, Karate champs who are no where near the fighting level of top fighters today......... again I have no doubt that Bruce Lee would be one of the best 145ers in the world if he was training in today's world and fighting the best fighters consistently. But 1950-60s Bruce Lee does not stand a chance against most of top fighters today regardless of weight class..... and its not his fault; fighting has evolved past his time.
Again sorry if I have angered you or you're brother.... my apologies.