thewidowsbite

This user has not updated recently.

152 286 30 15
Forum Posts Wiki Points Following Followers

thewidowsbite's forum posts

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#1  Edited By thewidowsbite

@PhoenixoftheTides said:

No. Because honestly, most of these heroes have been controlled or manipulated before. The only reason their collateral damage wasn't worse was because their friends and colleagues were able to defeat them before they did collateral damage. Storm almost destroyed the atmosphere because her anger pushed her back caring about the side effects of her powers, Invisible Woman almost killed her family because of her issues coming to terms with her life, The Shadow King has controlled the X-Men on multiple occasions and they weren't blaming each other for trying to kill each other, Hank Pym created Ultron who is ultimately responsible for genocide, Magneto was guilty of trying to incite genocide as well as massive deaths and destruction yet people tolerate him just fine now, Thor's warriors madness has inflicted mass damage, Hulk habitually destroys entire sections of cities killing thousands when he loses control. Heck, the typical superhero fight usually destroys so many buildings and involves so many bullets, that civilians are probably killed or injured in pretty large levels. Thanks for pointing out how hypocritical Vision is being btw. As you can tell, I completely agree with the articles' point that other heroes have lost control or been possessed before, and think that undermines how they treat her. That's the problem with having all of this continuity - it makes the "heroes" look like hypocrites and ironically, this was the issue that lead to Scarlet Witch's breakdown; the Avengers no longer knew how to look after each other and started to look for "quick fixes" rather than taking care of each others' emotional health.

I agree with you completely! Just look at how Agatha Harkness dealt with Wanda's pain upon losing her children: she simply erased her memories of them entirely and the rest of the Avengers kept their existence and demise a secret from her... until Disassembled. How did the X-Men want to deal with the threat of her sanity and growing powers? Kill her. I think the Avengers may have ended up siding with the X-Men had Wanda not warped reality into the House of M. The "heroes" barely tried to understand what she was going through in the first place and that's why this happened.

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#2  Edited By thewidowsbite

@TheGreyOutcastX said:

I think X-fans have had this discussion the most. Avengers fans usually jump to say yes forgive her and welcome her back to the team. That is the worst thing you could ever do. The Avengers have the notorious past of welcoming back fallen member so long as they look like they want to repent. It gets swept under the rug, and they will act like it never happened.

I said this in another thread about Wanda. You can't let her actions whether they were out of insanity or not go unanswered. That would be a slap on the wrist which is an insult to the readers. It makes it seems like heroes can get away with acts that rival what villains do. That heroes don't bother to reign in their own. That they face no consequences. Look at Illyana. She tricked the X-Men into aiding her in her vengeance against the Elder Gods. She nearly got what was left of mutantkind killed. Scott did what had to be done, and locked her away, and later put restrictions on her actions to insure it wouldn't happen again. Wanda should not get special treatment. She needs to repent, she needs to see and experience what she did to mutants and through that rediscover her own mutant identity. One act alone is not enough.

If she wants to redeem herself, if she wants to fix her mistake, if she truly wants to repent, she must come face to face with those that she harmed and little by little fix and aid mutantkind. Time she put being an Avenger on the back burner and clean up the mess she helped create. Earn forgiveness, don't waste your time asking for it.

I actually agree with this completely but also feel that if Wanda were more of a fan favorite like Wolverine that fans would much quicker to forgive and forget, and thus the writers would tailor the storyline to follow suit (heroes forgiving and forgetting, well maybe not Cyclops). She is definitely partially to blame for the events she caused but has everyone forgotten two of the main other people responsible as well?

Perhaps having the biggest hand in this entire situation was Quicksilver. He warned Wanda that the Avengers/X-Men were coming for her and were likely going to kill her but she was going to let whatever happened happen. She was actually willing to die for what she had done in Disassembled, a product of psychologically suppressed trauma; she LOST her children that she could NEVER had (having children was impossible with her android husband at the time, thus when she used her abilities to get pregnant it was an opportunity no woman in a similar situation wouldn't consider a sheer miracle) and her memories were stolen from her. I'm not a mother, but I've been around enough to know that a bond between a mother and her children is one of the most powerful things in fiction and the real world. To lose her children, and by having them be absorbed by a demonic entity? That's some serious damage that was only put at bay when Agatha Harkness decided to erase the poor woman's memories of ever having had children. She killed her husband and her friend Scott Lang and was remorseful enough to welcome death at the hands of her friends and family. She had lost her family at the point... other than her father... and Pietro. In desperation to save his sister, he convinced her to change reality to create a world where all of the arriving heroes got what they wanted so that they wouldn't come after her. Her mind was fragile and the idea of bringing peace to the people she helped seriously hurt was too appealing to her, plus her most trusted relative encouraged and conceived the idea. So she did it. It obviously didn't work out and Pietro was killed, yet another of Wanda's dwindling family killed... by her father. Can you imagine the type of trauma having your own brother whom had been a part of your life all your lives be brutally killed by the man you barely even like, a man whose supposed to be your father? Magneto was willing to kill his own child out of embarrassment and pride, a pride that has reinforced his crusade against humans and towards the advancement of mutant kind in society (thus HIS part in the House of M, mutants being elevated in society as the primary race... and the entire story being called the House of M as in MAGNUS?) The fact that she erased the vast majority of the mutant race instead of... I don't know... destroying the world (which she could probably at least achieve 99% considering the success rate of the depowering spell) is a miracle conisdering the fact that her ENTIRE family was taken from her, except the tyrant she was supposed to call her father.

I'm not saying she's not completely justified in her actions. Not even close. But try to look at it from her side, try to imagine going through all that and, what? Still being a super hero and having everything all honky dory? I don't think so. Half the things these characters go through would've lead to the same kind of breakdown Wanda had if not worse, the writers are just good at making them all seem to get over them so easily or not be realistically affected by them. With Wanda, they managed to make her character much more human than it ever was and make her one of the most flawed, and consequently human, characters in Marvel comics. So I'm saying she's to blame, but she's not the only one and cut her some slack. She's been through things that most people couldn't hope to survive in the first place.

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#3  Edited By thewidowsbite

No. More. Animosity...

The woman has gone through hell and lost her mind. Everyone should try to see it in her point of view, maybe they would at least give her another chance if they did.

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#5  Edited By thewidowsbite

@BOPFAN#3: Couldn't have said it myself, even the bit about Emma, lol.

I personally don't see the realism in Jean being with Logan... ever. Yeah, he's been pining after her from day one and she seems to have some feelings for him too, but if anything between them was going to happen (their sporadic kisses don't count IMO, only a real relationship or at least a full sexual encounter), it would have happened before she married Scott or DEFINITELY after he cheated on her.

Honestly other than Spider-Man and Mary Jane (whom Marvel NEVER should have split up), not many superhero couples are necessary in Marvel, they just want to help make the characters seem more realistic.

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#6  Edited By thewidowsbite

The point is we (or at least I) want the real Jean Grey back and can do without all these copycats that are obviously replacements/substitutes of the real deal. Whatever constitutes as a "rip-off" is irrelavent, these other characters are clearly used to try and confuse and/or intrigue fans as to why they look like and have similar powers to such an iconic character.

Personally I like Rachel (though she's sometimes annoying) and could tolerate Madelyne before the Sisterhood storyline, but Hope is just pushing the envelope. They keep telling the same story in different ways: Jean Grey dies, some other female appears with an uncanny resemblance and similar (or practically identical) powers appears out of nowhere who has an important role within the world of the X-Men.

This story's played-out like a worn record and I think it's time Marvel brought back the one and only Jean and stop killing her off.

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#7  Edited By thewidowsbite

@AgeofHurricane said:



                    I mainly fell in love with her because of X-Men TAS, words cannot even comprehend.............

                   

               


Same here! I loved her the most out of everybody: her southern drawl, fiesty personality, powers, and emotional depth. She always seemed the most realistic and relatable out of all the characters.       


 

Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#8  Edited By thewidowsbite

It's not Magik. Colossus referred to her as "little Illyana", so she is still clearly his younger sister and much too young (Colossus was a teen, maybe still is in his late teens, at the time he said it) to be shacking up with Wolverine. Kinda wish she were the mom though, I've been dying to see the Ultimate version of her.
Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#9  Edited By thewidowsbite
@Nightstar1 said:


                    @thewidowsbite:   

Like the other guy said, I didn't grow up with the New Teen Titans and Dick and Kory's relationship and for me his relationship with Babs isn't really a retcon, 

Whether or not you read Titans or "consider" it retcon, Dick and Babs relationship was retconned. In fact, I can't find an issue of any comic that shows him being interested in her (that isn't taken by her as being 'not serious") before 1998 when the conning began.   And what is even more disheartening is that a character so perfect as Barbara - being flawed, vulnerable but with strength and a wonderful mind is being retconned into someone perfect. Now, she's younger and stronger and Perfect - a genius, even! With some supposed inner struggles or some such BS. I mean, Barbara Gordon is becoming her own Mary Sue. How sad is that? They're taking a good character - a positive role model for people with disabilities. She had a great crime fighting career, had a tragedy and managed to work out an even greater crime fighting career, and now they're making her into a Steprford super heroine.  Thanks DC. 

                   

               

Yeah... that's why I said for ME it didn't feel like a retcon. And I never denied it was one, I just said that like any other retcon it should (and has) be considered as fact like any other retcon there ever has been in DC. The way I see it, DC is turning into a giant retcon as a whole; look at Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, and now the upcoming reboot. These writers are constanty changing any and everything about every aspect of the comics in order to pull in more readers. Half the things that are changed are either welcomed or overlooked by fans. So if you're against Dick and Barbara's relationship because it happened via retcon, you might as well be against everything pertaining to DC comics at all.
Avatar image for thewidowsbite
thewidowsbite

152

Forum Posts

286

Wiki Points

15

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#10  Edited By thewidowsbite

I'm personally a huge fan of Dick and Babs, but Nightstar1 does bring up a compelling argument. However in adressing the retcons in developing Dick and Babs love story, how many times have retcon's happened in DC or comics in general that we've grown to accept as canon? Power Girl's name has come up quite a bit and she's a prime example: she went from being Kara Zor-L from Krypton, to Kara of Atlantis, back to Kara Zor-L from Krypton again... Retcons are cheap and usually very annoying, but in this instance I like the relationship between Dick and Babs no matter how it began. Like the other guy said, I didn't grow up with the New Teen Titans and Dick and Kory's relationship and for me his relationship with Babs isn't really a retcon, so forgive me if I might be a little biased. I love Kory and her relationship with Dick. I loved it in the comics (I read the graphic novels of the 80's New Teen Titans) and in the animated show. However I also loved Dick's relationship with Babs in Batman the animated series (the show I grew up with).

It's late where I am, so I'm kind of talking in circles... but I feel that Dick and Babs have a lot of chemistry and a great deal of longing for one another. They obviously love each other very much and have a relationship that was never really given a chance. It seems he and Kory have hooked up a lot since the last time they really had a relationship. I feel that because of this and their never really getting back together (aside from random sexual encounters) that trying to get back together for them is like beating a dead horse. Yes, they're still very attracted to one another which is only natural since they are both incredibly attractive people, but they just can't seem to find a way back together as a real couple. I think for Dick, hooking up with Kory was convenient and though he no doubt still cares for her and may still have some feelings for her, he doesn't really lobe her anymore the way he loved her in his college years. They've grown up, they're more mature adults now, if they can't seem to get it right now, it seems they understand that their relationship will never have that hopeless love it once had. I feel this is a good thing because it's realistic: people fall in love, people break up, people still have moments of lapsing back into love and/or sex, people realize that sometimes love between two people just doesn't last. 
 
Babs and Dick have rarely had much of a relationship in recent times aside from the proposal, and I feel that because of the flashbacks and extreme longing between one another on a more emotional level demonstrates that the love they share is beyond simply sexual which, like it or not, Dick and Kory's relationship had been reduced two (i.e. Outsiders and Titans). Not all great relationships and love stories have to be personified with sex, you can love someone from afar more than someone you're with physically.
 
I just think that Babs helps keep Dick grounded and that he helps bring some more of the fun-loving side of her. I feel like they deserve at least a chance. Even if historically they had little more between each other than a mildy significant age difference before, you can't deny that they look really good together and seem to be very happy when they're together (NOT counting the above image from Batgirl #3, which is most likely misleading to the actual storyline that takes place within). 
 
I'm not saying they deserve to be together anymore than Dick and Kory do, but they deserve a chance, and us Dick/Babs fans deserve a chance to see their love for each other explored and not yanked around.