TheOptimist

@pikahyper: Well, thusfar we've seen Al Pratt (also notably deceased pre-universe) and Jay Garrick, who are both younger... for me, alive and young is better than dead and old...

Also, my interpretation is less that the characters are "de-aged" (as has happened to the JSA about 10 times before) and more "restarted"... I know it seems unlikely, and I've certainly proved that I have quite a biased voice... but I approached Earth-2 with a similar hesitancy regarding the age element... particularly with Jay Garrick... and I know its only been one issue, but I immediately felt comfortable with young Jay. It actually ended up being totally fine. I really didn't expect that to be the case. I know I'm unlikely to sway people on the subject, but I'd say its worth it to give it a chance.

@danhimself said:

the only problem I have with it is that it seems like they're changing everything about every DC character in the hopes of bringing in new readers but they're completely ignoring those of us who have loved and been reading these character for years and decades...for me it's not just Alan Scott being gay...it's Superboy not being the Superboy that I loved, Wally West and Donna Troy no longer existing, Dick Grayson was never a member of the team that he helped found, and tons of other things....sure there have been some amazing stories that came out of the reboot but I can't help but feel angry that they had to get rid of so much that I loved just so Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and Aquaman could succeed and Scott Snyder could write an awesome Batman story despite the fact that all of the great stories from the reboot could have been just as easily told in the old timeline without changing a single thing about the story....sorry I got off topic but whenever the subject comes up I can't help but rant...even though I brought it up

I get that. I'm a longtime fan as well, and even though I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum in that I am completely embraced in the loving warmth of the New 52... I still share some of those thoughts and concerns... I echo @Redberry's patience, while simultaneously realizing the frustration a fan can do so in experiencing it... even if there is a plan in place, and even if things will work out eventually... right now it might suck... unfortunately, there isn't really anything more to be done about that... I also loved prelaunch Sboy (and admit that current Kon is one of those places where I think post is worst than pre)... my favorite character (Cylcone) and many others have yet to appear (and honestly Wally and Donna will return long before my D-list love, sadly)... I do want to note that its suggested that Dick Grayson actually was a member of an early incarnation of the TT... just without the name... (or maybe even with, we just don't know enough about it... all our info is really culled from online interviews, which are not really canon, after all). I think the thing that distinguishes us is that for me, the Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Aquaman, Snyder Batman have all been worth it for me, and feel like some of their success was due to the 52 opportunity... there are many more pros in my column as well... but basically what I mean to say is that I understand. I may support the New 52, and basically anti-rant about it... but that doesn't mean that I disagree with your points about it. I'm hopeful that with time, those issues will be resolved.

@CircularLogic said:

@TheOptimist: Appealing to old comers got them in trouble, changing things has been shown to be very successful. Now if you want to argue that some characters were done a disservice with their changes, thats fine, but until I've read earth 2 #2 I'm withholding judgement, but I'm optimistic

I'm optimistic too! Yay! Yeah, I have to agree completely that the "old fan service" method was really problematic... sales didn't really build, fans still managed to get upset about every which thing... honestly, many old fans (and new fans who will soon become old fans) will complain just to complain... but I'm hoping that there are those of us out there who hold on to that optimistic viewpoint... yay positive fans!

Put in Cyclone and I'll read the book.

Who I'm I kidding, I'll read it anyways.

I think the real thing that would make such a book thrive, while also addressing the concerns of certain fans, would be the rationale for the group's formation and the mission that distinguishes them... thats the real hook, and at this point I think that is why it probably hasn't happened... just because we haven't found the right hook. Clearly there are enough people that would tentatively buy it... but the hook needs to be there for it to have a lasting chance.

@pikahyper: Well... it was literally like 5 minutes before Flashpoint started... so everybody everywhere knew that it was Comic Book Death at its finest... it took place in the final issues of the old Justice Society book... honestly, we might as well ignore that he died, I was mostly being "dumb cute".

Also, I don't know where you got that Alan Scott is in Stormwatch. As far as I know that isn't accurate. Do you recall where you heard that? I've read every issue of every New 52 book and am pretty sure that is not correct. For one thing, Alan Scott has thusfar only appeared on Earth-2... while there might be a Stormwatch on that universe, it is at this point not connected to the Stormwatch title.

@Uno_Oscuro said:

@Redberry said:

@CircularLogic said:

@Uno_Oscuro said:

I'm okay with homos in comics, its cool with me. But when they just throw a gay character in or just make an established character gay for no real justification, it ticks me off.

Word of it advice, you just reek of insincerity when you use the word "homos".

Just saying racial slurs kinda detract from whatever point you were going to make

I agree with your statement, but homosexuality is not a race, so it's more along the line of offensive language.

Actually, you're both wrong. "Homo" is not a derogatory when used in the proper context, in fact, calling a gay guy "gay" or "homo" is generally accepted, it when you use it in an obviously hostile way, for example. Calling a jewish person a "jew" is not rude, or mean, unless, I was obviously doing it with intention of harm. Which, by my statement, it was obvious that I meant no ill will towards anyone.

Well, by definition in a "proper context" it would be definition be "proper"... but having a slight hunch (as well as prior knowledge) I decided to test your premise that calling a gay guy a "gay" or "homo" is generally accepted... I used my handy-dandy gay friend and pushed the question to him. While certainly not reflective of the entire community, I thought I'd pass along the response, just out of interest's sake. Again, simply one account, but I thought it worth sharing. Again, his words, not mine:

Being called "homo" is offensive. I can't think of any time where I would think it is okay. That might just be me. No 'homo community', no 'a homo', nothing. That just doesn't work for me. Now, being called "gay" is really a lot more about the context. For instance "he's a gay" I don't respond to that well. There is just some subtly to me that is off putting there. But being described as gay? Yes, I am a gay man. Really no other way to say it. But to be described as a 'homo man', that would sound offensive to me, which is probably why I don't really hear that. Just my quick thoughts.

So, there's his thoughts. Take it with however many grains of salt you'd enjoy, but I thought having a 'community rep' speak would provide something.

OP: I find your statement somewhat uninformed (and at points offensive). Yes, comics sometimes push elements of social agenda.

SEE: Green Lantern/Green Arrow. Snowbirds don't cry? The indignation of continuing racial injustice and the failure of superhumans to confront those issues? The consistent abuse of specific communities and land-ownership rights? These were issues raised in comics. Comic books are a fantastic medium for helping to develop consciousness of social issues.

As to the younger fans, I'm hoping that they will grow up with an open mind, a fair heart that can appreciate the people of their community, regardless of their sexual orientation, and will understand that homosexuality is not a "private lifestyle" that can be shoved away into a closet of shame.

@pikahyper said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@pikahyper said:

They made Alan Scott gay? that sucks, he has always been an awesome underused character :( His son was gay in the old universe, they should have just stuck with that.

How does making him gay make him less awesome? He's still the same guy, still has all the same powers, still has done all the same things that made you think he was awesome before.

Is he still the Earth's first Green Lantern? does he have his Starheart powers? is he still married to his old nemesis the Harelquin? He still the father of Jade and Obsidian? Still the White King of Checkmate? his past is what made him awesome and just looking at that picture of him he looks like a completely different character bein all young with the trenchcoat and modern hair, being gay is inconsequential really, how has he done all the same things as before if he looks even younger now and looks to have a different personality?

You forgot "Is he still dead?" because remember, he was dead. That was certainly part of his past. A pretty important part.

@Katie24 said:

Bigots Suck!

QFT. I've decided you and I are friends.

Oh, there are so many wonderful ones to choose from...

My personal favorite is Cyclone, of course...

But the list is pretty long: Damian, Batwoman, Jaime Reyes, Miss Martian, The Talons, Saint Walker, Scandal Savage, Kate Spencer (Manhunter), Secret Six's Jeanette, the leaders and some of the lanterns from the other colored corps... I don't know, there are a whole heck of a lot! Really most of mine are culled there even from the past 5 years... if I really thought about the full decade... I'm sure there would be many more. Mia Dearden was a little bit more than a decade ago I guess... but even shortly after characters like Onomatopeia and Constantine Drakon... there are a ton in between, but unfortunately my memory fogs as to who qualifies... I guess Kid Devil would've been new... Osiris was a great creation (as was Sobek, disastrous though he eventually was)...

Some have started strong, but their super-greatness is still pending... Starling, Element Woman, William Arcane, Bunker and the like...

A well articulated piece. I'm not saying I agree with all of it (though I do admit that I agree with most of it), but at the very least you've done a fantastic job of articulating your thoughts clearly and respectfully (well, that one c-word aside :-p). So nice work in that respect. In fact, I have very little to which I feel I need to respond, even on those points where I might disagree...

The one piece I will respond to is the presence of communities according to their proportionality in the real world... I would argue that much of the reason why there is not a proportional representation of various racial communities, (as there has been an increased proportional representation of homosexuals) is mostly due to the lens over which the sphere of the comic world applies, namely North America. I'd like to imagine that their actually is a pretty wide superhero community beyond the reader's viewpoint, and that there are a host of heroes worldwide that more appropriately represent the global community. I'm one of those readers that would actively read further documentation of those heroes; sales statistics suggest that I am, however, one of very few. DC made a very admirable attempt to bring a representation of Asians in the superhero community (although your mileage may vary on those interpretations) but the fact is that they did put some steam behind some new Asian creations that unfortunately fell rather flat in a very quick run. They actually took a huge investment risk by naming The Great Ten as a ten-issue miniseries; unfortunately the readership was so minimal that they had to admit a moment of embarrassment and abbreviate their plan. Similarly, while somewhat of a parody (and at the same time providing an incredibly realistic an accurate cultural commentary) the Super Young Team met some really abominable sales statistics... and both of these were groups that got central exposure in the company's big front and center events of the time period, namely 52 and Final Crisis. August General in Iron, unfortunately, has jumped into the now disbanding Justice League International, which again has attempted to provide at least some semblance of a larger global community of superheroes. While I'm all for it (again, see above that I would buy it), it seems that the current readership is not actually interested in such a global roster, at least actively holding down titles.

Similarly, it may yet come to pass that the "exodus" of readers may reflect that readers are authentically not interested in reading about gay superheroes. By this, I'm referring of course to the seemingly endless number of "I hate DC, I'm quitting" posts that are arising... what I'll note is that we've seen these posts before, but the general sales statistics indicate that any alleged exodus either does not occur, is met by an equal number of new readers, or provides only the routine attrition of readership which naturally returns over time. Of course, if there is truly an uproar, we'll see it, the company will acknowledge it and attempt to redirect. (I only say this so that perhaps some of those readers might minimize their melodrama). If there is truly no market for gay characters in comics, then we will see a reduction of their presence in comics... an element I would be a touch saddened by, but at the same time it would do little damage to my overall interpretation of the scene, in that I would simply assume that such characters were no longer in the 'publication lens' rather than the global presence beyond the page.

Best Writing

1st Justice League Dark#9 (Jeff Lemire)

2nd Batman #9 (Scott Snyder)

3rd Earth 2 #1 (James Robinson)

Best Interior Artwork

1st Earth 2 #1 (Nicola Scott)

2nd Justice League Dark #9 (Mikel Janin)

3rd Aquaman #9 (Ivan Reis)

Best Cover Artwork

1st Ryan Sook (Justice League Dark #9)

2nd Ivan Reis (Earth 2 #1)

3rd Jason Fabok (Batman Annual #1)

Favorite Marvel Comic

1st Wolverine & The X-Men #12

2nd Uncanny X-Force #25

3rd X-Factor #236

Favorite DC Comic

1st Justice League Dark #9

2nd Batman#9

3rd Earth 2 #1

Favorite Non-Marvel or DC Comic

1st Saga #3

2nd American Vampire #27

3rd Morning Glories #18

Most Underrated Comic

1st Justice League Dark#9

2nd Dial H #1

3rd I, Vampire #9

Favorite Male Hero

1st Bruce Wayne, Batman (Batman#9)

2nd John Constantine (Justice League Dark#9)

3rd Alec Holland, Swamp Thing (Swamp Thing #9)

Favorite Female Hero

1st Wonder Woman (Wonder Woman #9)

2nd Abigail Arcane (Swamp Thing #9)

3rd Black Orchid (Justice League Dark #9)

Favorite Male Villain

1st William Cobb, Talon (Nightwing #9)

2nd David Graves (Justice League #9)

3rd Felix Faust (Justice League Dark #9)

Favorite Female Villain

1st Talon (Batgirl #9)

2nd Mary, Queen of Blood (I, Vampire #9)

3rd Talia al Ghul (Batman, Inc. #1)