A World Without Batman - New Elseworlds Idea

I figured that I will probably get hired by DC Comics eventually since my career choice is comic book writing and I'm confident enough of my skills to say that. Who knows if it will anything major but one thing I know I definitely want to write is a Batman story that doesn't exist in the actual universe. It's an Elseworlds story, if they ever return to allowing those stories to happen.

Basically, it's an alternate version of Justice League of America: The Nail (What if Superman never came to Earth?) but instead about Batman. The concept is that Bruce Wayne never became Batman. There have been plenty of stories where Bruce's parents live and he just grows up to be a lame rich guy like the male version of Paris Hilton. In Flashpoint, instead just Bruce died and Thomas Wayne became a vicious Batman without the no kill rule and Martha Wayne became the Joker. Instead, in this story, Joe Chill kills Bruce and his parents together. Nobody to get angry, nobody to get revenge. Alfred just decides to mourn their deaths and go back to England.

The idea is to show how the Justice League forms without their powerless human member to keep them grounded and how Gotham City operates without Batman fighting evil. I want to show how some of the Batman villains don't exist because Batman never accidentally created them. Also the lives of the Robins and Batgirls without Batman to guide them. I do want to create a random new hero that is just some new guy who hates crime.

Here is where I decided to let you guys in on the development of the comic. I pretty much want to write the story itself by myself but I want to see what you guys have in mind for suggestions on developments of certain characters like Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, and others.

What do you guys think? Do you have any ideas?

Current characters with set developments: Thomas Wayne, Martha Wayne, Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth, Joe Chill, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Jim Gordon, Harvey Dent, Cassandra Cain, Ra's al Ghul, Thomas Elliot, Selina Kyle, Superman, Supergirl, Superboy, Lex Luthor, Wonder Woman, Donna Troy, Cassie Sandsmark, Barry Allen, Wally West, Bart Allen, Hal Jordan, Kyle Rayner, Aquaman, Tempest, Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Oliver Queen, Roy Harper, Mia Dearden, Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, Raven, Ted Kord, and Plastic Man.

Characters who will not exist in this universe: Joker, Damian Wayne and Jaime Reyes.

Characters who do not have set developments: Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, Talia al Ghul, and Helena Bertinelli.

Jessie S. Galindo aka "Mr. Messy Face" is an amateur/semi-professional comic book writer and all-around lover of the comic book genre. Follow him on Twitter: @MrMessyFace

29 Comments
29 Comments
Posted by coolguyr99

Sounds like a very good idea to me.

Posted by RedOwl_1

Very good idea :D let me see what I can guess

Dick becomes "Gotham's Greatest assassin" (you know Court Of Owls thingy)

Jason grows up becoming a thief

Tim has a pretty normal life

Cassandra..... I don't want even think about that

Babs lives nicely with his father (No Batman = No Joker & No Batgirl = No shoot :D)

So mostly everybody lives better without him.... except poor Dickie and Cassie :(

Posted by RoboShark

Yes and let's also have sex without vaginas. Ha I kid, that could be a cool book to let the other Bat Family shine.

Posted by TheMess1428

@RedOwl_1 said:

Dick becomes "Gotham's Greatest assassin" (you know Court Of Owls thingy)

I want to stay away from the whole Court of Owls thing. Especially because that is just too easy for a Dick Grayson development.

Posted by RedOwl_1

@TheMess1428: Oh.... then probably (in my mind) he takes Bruce's path in his own way (ya know trying to avenge his parent's death with his acrobatic skills and other things he can learn while traveling around the world with the circus)

Posted by TheMess1428

@RedOwl_1: Actually I am working on something similar. Like a poor man's Batman but without it being about bats.

Posted by Jodez

Pretty cool idea, wish they'd make more elseworlds soon...
 
Anyways, you could have Grayson becoming Gotham's protector
 
Jason should grow up to be a criminal (like Bruce always thought he would), he could be Grayson's main villain
 
Tim should still use his detective skills to figure out about Dick and become his 'robin'...

Posted by Shotgun

Actually, Jason would have become a priest without Batman's influence.

Posted by Jodez

^ Oh yeah, forgot about that

Posted by TheMess1428

@Shotgun said:

Actually, Jason would have become a priest without Batman's influence.

What comic was that? And in that one, Jason still died. Jason doesn't die in this one because there was no Joker.

Posted by batshrine

I don't know if I would agree with you that the Joker exists because of Batman. We don't know Jokers past, and I think it be silly to tie it with Batman's. On that same note, Joker is an overused character so he still shouldn't appear in your book. But think of another result for Babs.

Posted by TheMess1428

@batshrine said:

I don't know if I would agree with you that the Joker exists because of Batman. We don't know Jokers past, and I think it be silly to tie it with Batman's. On that same note, Joker is an overused character so he still shouldn't appear in your book. But think of another result for Babs.

I like to think that the origin where he was the Red Hood and fell into the chemicals because of Batman, turning him into the Joker, is the origin in my view of continuity. It may be different for others but that is how I feel about it. As for Barbara, I always thought of her as a sort of hero worshiper. She became Batgirl because she thought Batman was cool. So if there is another hero in Batman's place, she might do something to honor him instead. Or she might become a cop in honor of her father.

Posted by Shotgun

@TheMess1428 Jason died in that universe because of Brother Blood. It didn't say that he died because of the Joker. Also, in the main DCU, Joker only killed Jason because he was Robin and it would be the ultimate slap to Batman's face. If Jason wasn't Robin, then the Joker doesn't have any particular reason to go after him.

Posted by TheMess1428

@Shotgun said:

@TheMess1428 Jason died in that universe because of Brother Blood. It didn't say that he died because of the Joker. Also, in the main DCU, Joker only killed Jason because he was Robin and it would be the ultimate slap to Batman's face. If Jason wasn't Robin, then the Joker doesn't have any particular reason to go after him.

And if the Joker didn't exist, he would have no reason to go after anyone...

Edited by soduh2

Interesting.

I agree with the posts saying Dick would step into the Batman-esque position. He might be called The Robin, maybe focusing on the more Robin hood aspect of his character? Considering that was a name his parents gave him. Maybe he could be a League of Assassins recrute like in Batman Begins, his vengence and acrobatic skills might show some merit.

EDIT: Maybe you could use Thomas Elliot too, Bruce is no longer alive for him to imitate.

Posted by TheMess1428

I currently have plans for Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, Ra's al Ghul, Thomas Elliot, Harvey Dent, Catwoman, Jim Gordon, and the Justice League members. The ones I do not have set plans for are Barbara Gordon, Stephanie Brown, Helena Bertinelli, and Talia al Ghul.

Posted by azza04

How the hell does Batman keep the Justice League grounded?

Posted by TheMess1428

@azza04 said:

How the hell does Batman keep the Justice League grounded?

In general, a non-powered human member of a superhero team usually keeps the team from getting a sort of godlike sort of authority similar to the Crime Syndicate in the JUSTICE LEAGUE: CRISIS ON TWO EARTHS animated movie. Even though Owlman was a non-powered human...

The point is that if the Justice League contained the original 7, with Martian Manhunter instead of Cyborg, and Batman just wasn't a member, then chances are Superman will not have his best friend who is constantly reminding him of the his human side, Green Lantern won't have Batman insulting him all the time so that he can start to feel superior about the fact that he is the Earth's Green Lantern like how Sinestro was on his planet, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter will feel superior to non-powered humans because they don't have one to call their equal. As for the Flash, he kinda just falls in with the crowd. He has no particular reason why.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@TheMess1428: This sounds like a great idea!!! You better get with DC so I can read this!! Also, just throwing this out there, for random angry vigilante guy make it Harvey Dent. He would have become Two-Face with or without Batman being there, so play Two-Face as a vigilante. Not a great idea I know, but I'm just a part time fan fic writer on fanfiction.net.

Posted by TheMess1428

@Smart_Dork_Dude said:

@TheMess1428: This sounds like a great idea!!! You better get with DC so I can read this!! Also, just throwing this out there, for random angry vigilante guy make it Harvey Dent. He would have become Two-Face with or without Batman being there, so play Two-Face as a vigilante. Not a great idea I know, but I'm just a part time fan fic writer on fanfiction.net.

I have a personal belief that Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face was somewhat caused by Batman in a way. So yes, in this story, Harvey Dent never changed into Two-Face but I do have a good development for the story.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@TheMess1428 said:

@Smart_Dork_Dude said:

@TheMess1428: This sounds like a great idea!!! You better get with DC so I can read this!! Also, just throwing this out there, for random angry vigilante guy make it Harvey Dent. He would have become Two-Face with or without Batman being there, so play Two-Face as a vigilante. Not a great idea I know, but I'm just a part time fan fic writer on fanfiction.net.

I have a personal belief that Harvey Dent becoming Two-Face was somewhat caused by Batman in a way. So yes, in this story, Harvey Dent never changed into Two-Face but I do have a good development for the story.

That's fine, like I said the only writing it do is fan fics, though I might do the vigilante Two Face idea in one of my stories.

Posted by azza04

@TheMess1428 said:

@azza04 said:

How the hell does Batman keep the Justice League grounded?

In general, a non-powered human member of a superhero team usually keeps the team from getting a sort of godlike sort of authority similar to the Crime Syndicate in the JUSTICE LEAGUE: CRISIS ON TWO EARTHS animated movie. Even though Owlman was a non-powered human...

The point is that if the Justice League contained the original 7, with Martian Manhunter instead of Cyborg, and Batman just wasn't a member, then chances are Superman will not have his best friend who is constantly reminding him of the his human side, Green Lantern won't have Batman insulting him all the time so that he can start to feel superior about the fact that he is the Earth's Green Lantern like how Sinestro was on his planet, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter will feel superior to non-powered humans because they don't have one to call their equal. As for the Flash, he kinda just falls in with the crowd. He has no particular reason why.

Superman doesn't need Batman to remind him of his human side :S I think he does pretty well of all by himself. And Bats is hardly Supes best friend, Batman doesn't trust Superman and never has despite all his talk.

Posted by TheMess1428

@azza04 said:

@TheMess1428 said:

@azza04 said:

How the hell does Batman keep the Justice League grounded?

In general, a non-powered human member of a superhero team usually keeps the team from getting a sort of godlike sort of authority similar to the Crime Syndicate in the JUSTICE LEAGUE: CRISIS ON TWO EARTHS animated movie. Even though Owlman was a non-powered human...

The point is that if the Justice League contained the original 7, with Martian Manhunter instead of Cyborg, and Batman just wasn't a member, then chances are Superman will not have his best friend who is constantly reminding him of the his human side, Green Lantern won't have Batman insulting him all the time so that he can start to feel superior about the fact that he is the Earth's Green Lantern like how Sinestro was on his planet, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Martian Manhunter will feel superior to non-powered humans because they don't have one to call their equal. As for the Flash, he kinda just falls in with the crowd. He has no particular reason why.

Superman doesn't need Batman to remind him of his human side :S I think he does pretty well of all by himself. And Bats is hardly Supes best friend, Batman doesn't trust Superman and never has despite all his talk.

Have you ever read Superman/Batman or any of their team up stories? They are obviously best friends. They don't call each other S and B for nothing.

Posted by bbraich

@TheMess1428: Yeppers, I dunno about best friends, but very close friends for sure.

I like this idea, I think you've got all the main bases covered (Bat family, Justice League) but it'd be cool to briefly touch on other lives that were perhaps less important in the DC universe yet Batman had a profound positive impact on. Like Harold or that teen, can't remember her name (Batman sees her when he gets out of the water after the helpicopter crash in RIP), who he meets on the street and gets her a job with Wayne Enterprises.

I've always liked that about Batman, yeah he's on the frontline during alien invasions, but he's also always sticking up for the little guy.

Posted by TheMess1428

@bbraich said:

@TheMess1428: Yeppers, I dunno about best friends, but very close friends for sure.

I like this idea, I think you've got all the main bases covered (Bat family, Justice League) but it'd be cool to briefly touch on other lives that were perhaps less important in the DC universe yet Batman had a profound positive impact on. Like Harold or that teen, can't remember her name (Batman sees her when he gets out of the water after the helpicopter crash in RIP), who he meets on the street and gets her a job with Wayne Enterprises.

I've always liked that about Batman, yeah he's on the frontline during alien invasions, but he's also always sticking up for the little guy.

Yeah well the plan is for a 12 issue miniseries with maybe a possible sequel if I can come up with a good enough story. I plan to have three main stories happening throughout the series but exploring small little things like how the Teen Titans exist without a Robin or Nightwing ever being around. I plan on having one of the biggest DC villains in existence being dead early on in the history of this world. And a current dead character becomes an awesome hero reaching potential we couldn't have dreamed of.

Posted by YMCMB

Well in broad terms Ra's probably would have killed several billion people to "fix the ecosystem" or whatever it is he wants to do and Darkseid would have destroyed reality in Final Crisis

Posted by TheMess1428

@YMCMB said:

Well in broad terms Ra's probably would have killed several billion people to "fix the ecosystem" or whatever it is he wants to do and Darkseid would have destroyed reality in Final Crisis

The events that caused Infinite Crisis would not have happened because of the absence of Batman, therefore Final Crisis would not have happened either. And if it did, it wouldn't matter because it was Superman who saved reality without Batman's help. All Batman did was wound Darkseid so that he couldn't return so quickly. Any other hero could have done the same. Green Arrow in particular would have gladly have done it.

As for Ra's, I have something similar in store for him that does not cause so many deaths. He had quite an obsession with Batman and without him to obsess on, he finds another who is more than enough to keep him from killing billions of people.

Posted by RainEffect

@TheMess1428: I'd like to think I'm pretty knowledgeable about Tim Drake. With that in mind, I still think he would go down the pursuit of vigilance. His father was killed by Captain Boomerang, who has no relation to Batman other than being just another Gotham Criminal. We might see Tim become his own sort of Batman, but, obviously - without the bat part. He's a brilliant child, so all that talent surely wouldn't go to waste, would it?

Posted by TheMess1428

@RainEffect: But would Captain Boomerang have been hired to kill Jack Drake if it wasn't for the fact that he was the father of Robin? If Bruce never became Batman, Tim never becomes Robin. Jack Drake is never murdered. But yes, Tim does have a taste for vigilance and will pursue being some kind of hero with whatever he can use.