The Devil Tiger

@xerox_kitty: I second this motion. X-23 is too serious of a character to have a cuties anime smile.

@atom895 said:

i think that everyone's forgetting that logan has one of the highest if not the highest body count in the x-men. he understands how killing changes a person forever, how it shapes and molds your life from then on. he is only acting this way because he doesn't want any of the kids to turn out to be cold, merciless killers. being a soldier is not for everyone. it is just some people who should not have to be exposed to things like that. look at what killing turned frank castle into, what it changed logan into. if cyclops was thinking like a officer should be he would never have underestimated the hellfire club. being a soldier is something that not everyone can be. wolverine was right, but so was cyclops. circumstance gives way to morals.

Cyclops was right, and Wolverine is naive (ironic). In an ideal world children wouldn't have to kill. But we don't live in an ideal world, and neither do the X-men.

Israel was established as a country after world war 2, and from that moment on all of its citizens were trained to fight; men, women, and children. They did this because the Jewish people had nearly been wiped off the face of the Earth, and they wanted to make sure that no one could finish the job.

Since its creation, the state of Israel has been in six wars where they were severely out-numbered and usually out-gunned. And they won every single time. Not because the people of Israel are heartless killing machines, but because they have the ability to be that when the situation calls for it.

You don't become Frank Castle from killing one person, you become Frank Castle from suffering trauma and having mental conditions (He really needs to stop going off the meds). You don't become Wolverine from shooting a terrorist, you become Wolverine from corrupt government systems and an increasingly convoluted back story (seriously, it changes every year).

Cyclops isn't training children to be ruthless killers, he's training children to be ruthless as necessary; he's training them to survive.

@Lvenger said:

The Hiroshoma Bomb was one example and using scared children as soldiers, regardless of whether they have superpowers or not is another. There are some moral codes that should not be broken.

Dude if their had been an invasion of the mainland the Japanese were prepared to die for their emperor which they believed was a God. I remember reading that they were to arm women and children with sharp or blunt objects and to have them fight off the invading forces. Now imagine a full grown American soldier killing children in self-defense. I'm not saying dropping the bomb or not dropping it was right, they were in a situation where regardless of the outcome life was going to be lost, there is no escape from that.

 Cyclops is correct. Wolverine has been turned into an idealist by a bad writer in Jason Aaron. For what was once such a good character it's a shame to see him be written so poorly. 

Wrong question. babs : 
The real one is this : Is it possible to do interesting comics without political ?  
 
It's surely possible, but not easy. Especially in the case of Captain America, Superman and the X-men. Even in the most optimistic and goody-goody approache, it will have a political undertone and someone will end offended or alienated.
 

Wolverine's comment that they are children and not soldiers is ridiculous. The idea of the X-Men has always taken children and put them in harm's way in order to fight evil and protect the innocent. The original X-Men were in their mid-teens when they first put on their costumes and fought Magneto, a mutant terrorist. Teenagers but still not adults. Professor X may have had dreams of a peaceful co-existence but he also trained them to be soldiers.

 
 Aw c'mon ! Prof X was an idealist, but he always trying to teach that X-men must not kill people. 
 
Cyclops is an hypocrite because his argument his that with 186 mutants left, the mutant must do whatever they can to stay existing as a specis. This is one the most stupid and heinous argument I have ever heard. 
 
Why ? Theses points : 
 
1) If they don't engage in a mass orgy or genetic cloning or reproduction, 186 people is not enough to bring back any species at all. Period. Mutants as a species are doomed. It's sad, but Get over it.
 
2) Cyclops's argument mean that they can kill whoever they want to stay alive. Human aren't the only one to feel fear, mutants too : how do you think it will last before mutant people will be killing out of fear instead of self-defense ? My guess ? Not very long. 
 
3) Lastly, his arguments is the same that some WWII dictators ave done with some other people. He's doin' the same errors than Magneto : he became what he fear the most. 
 
4) Sure? Wolverine will not be the best of teacher, but at least he's trying. He was drinking in a bar ? Good. What happen to the tactical and analatycal genius of Mr. Scott Summers ? Could he not prevent an attack on the Museum ? After more than ten years of working with Wolverine, he could not have a hints of his personnality and drinking habits ? 
 
Sure being a leader isn't easy, but there's something even harder, admit when you're wrong and we know that Cyke isn't good at that these times.