terry2012's forum posts

#1 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

#2 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

godzilla.

#3 Edited by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

@randomsid: Ok, we are going to have to stop talking right now, you are NOT going to tell me who I was and who I wasn't talking about when I never even mentioned Trunks at all. You were wrong, get over it. If you can't debate with respect then you can just not tag me again.

I never said you said Trunks again. I said you said Gohan only once and never mention him again. It is not my fault you cause the confusion and was not specific enough because you venture off some else where. No I was not wrong, and it is you who is wrong. You was the one who was not debating respectfully and I never tag you first you tag me first. Because I am debating respectfully. What am I supposed say? That I'm sorry that I thought you said trunks. Is that it? Well I'm sorry then. My point still stand whether you are talking about Future Gohan or not because he never manage to hurt them. For one, Future Gohan only fought one who he clearly stood no chance against. And two, he only got a hit in after sneak attacking Future Cyborg 17 and you count that as hurting him when Future Cyborg 17 said Future Gohan only ruined his clothes. I posted the scans of the fight and not once does Future Gohan manage to hurt one of them. So please chili.

#7 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome list. When is part 2 coming out?

#8 Edited by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:

@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:

@randomsid said:

@terry2012: The thread should not have been made anyway. It's a FACT that the future androids were weaker than the ones that the Z fighters faces. It's a FACT that after fusing with Kami Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with 17. It's also a FACT that Trunks was completely surprised by the amount of power the androids had in this timeline implying that they weren't just stronger than their future counterparts but hugely stronger. Piccolo after fusing with Kami would have no trouble whatsoever with the future androids. It's really a mismatch.

I know it is a FACT The cyborgs are weak than ones the Z fighter faced. But how much weak are they really are is all I'm saying? Nobody have answer the question. It is a FACT you are not telling me something that I don't already know.

Well, Gohan was weaker than Goku and he was facing them fairly evenly even with both at the same time. Even if they were only using half of their power(which all you have is a statement made by one of them), that would still place them much weaker than the androids from the current timeline. Why? Because at that point Goku and Vegeta were roughly the same power level and android 18 put him down with a single hit when she stopped playing with him. None of the Z fighters could even come close to fighting both of them evenly. You will never get an exact power difference because it doesn't exist, but you can estimate it and by all estimations a character that can stand up and go toe to toe evenly with one of the androids from the current timeline can wipe the floor with both androids from the future timeline.

That statement is more than enough evidence because of the facial expression on Future Gohan face, and then he died. I can easily say all you have is a statement made by Trunks. Because Future Cell was almost stronger than them. And he was from another parallel universe

Cell is a completely different thing. Trunks didn't even know about Cell at all and he was ALWAYS made to be stronger than the androids. And just because Gohan has surprise on his face doesn't mean anything. If I was fighting someone and they told me they were holding back I might be surprised, doesn't mean they were telling the truth. I'm not saying they weren't stronger than he believed, but regardless he was fighting them and managed to hurt them. None of the Z fighters managed to hurt either of the Androids from the current timeline at all until after the training in the ROST. And Vegeta, for instance, was stronger than the Gohan from the future.

No he is not a completely different thing. He did the same thing Trunks did and he was much stronger than main universe Cyborgs that Piccolo fought said by Kame in chapter 358 page 13. But then Cyborg 16 tell Cyborg 17 that one of them are strong enough to fight on equal terms with Cyborg 17. And yet Piccolo fought Imperfect Cell and was winning even though Kame said Imperfect Cell is much stronger than the cyborgs they were fighting until Imperfect Cell used Kamehameha wave and caught Piccolo and absorb some of his energy from Piccolo arm. They were equal despite what Kame said. That mean Imperfect Cell is also equal to the Cyborg 17. However the Cyborgs in his universe got destroyed and it never said by whom. It is assumed Trunks did it. Then Piccolo said that he is stronger than Imperfect Cell despite the energy he absorb from his arm. Then Imperfect Cell said when he become stronger than Cyborg 17 and18 he will absorb them. What character statement am I supposed to believe?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, it's very hard to read through. Cell was ALWAYS more powerful than the androids from the future. When he first came back to the past though he was weaker than them. He had to absorb people's energy to get to the power lever to be able to face them. That alone should tell you how much more powerful the androids from the current timeline were than the androids from the future.

When Future Gohan was surprised it meant something. It meant that he thought they were going all out against him when they were not. It also meant they were stronger than what they lead on and what future Gohan originally thought. Because it lead to his death. It also meant they could have done the same thing to Trunks. Cyborg 17 was telling the truth he had no reason to lie. And if you would be surprised by someone that would lie to you by saying they were holding back then you are unaware what is going on in the fight.

Yes, he was surprised because he thought they were going all out. It does NOT mean that 17 was telling the truth about only using half his power. They could have been using 75% of their power and when they ramped it up to 100% killed him fairly easily as well. When the power levels are that high even a 10% boost is a huge jump in power. I won't even dignify the last statement because it shows you know nothing about actual combat.

Future trunks did not manage to hurt the Cyborgs in his universe. He got stomp. His mother warned him not to go off and fight the Cyborgs however he did not heed the warning. She told him Future Gohan was around Future Trunks power and he did not fair well against them. Future Trunks ended up in a hospital and woke up and said to his mother that she was right that he stood no chance against them. And if you talking about current universe timeline Cyborgs then he did not hurt there either. He got floored by one punch from Cyborg 17 and never fought them again until he fought the ones from his universe timeline.

I never said future Trunks hurt the ANDROIDS(they are not cyborgs) in his timeline. I said Gohan did, and that is easily shown in both the Manga and the Anime.

I am saying you cannot trust their statement all the time. I am not TALKING about the Cyborgs from the future. I am talking about Cyborgs in the main universe is what Kame said. I even gave you the chapter and page number to where exactly what Kame said. Kame clearly said Imperfect Cell from the future is stronger than the Cyborgs in the current universe timeline. He did not say from Imperfect Cell future because his Cyborgs were destroyed in his universe timeline. However it turns out he was weaker than the current universe timeline Cyborgs but not by much. The rest is no concern because I already know that. And that alone wont tell me how much stronger they were than the Cyborgs from the future because it don't tell exactly how much like a definitive answer will. You said it yourself you wont get an estimation on how exactly much stronger they were than the future cyborgs. Since we don't know the gap they had anything about that is pure speculation because the manga is not being specific about that.

So you are basing your entire argument about cell based off of the simple line "There's a lifeform much stronger than those cyborgs"? Of course Cell was stronger, but that doesn't mean that he meant his power level was higher at that exact point. Especially when the very next page he is talking about it not being a danger that they can defeat and that it is a danger that will destroy everything. Seems to me that Kami was seeing what Cell would become and judging by that when he said that Cell was stronger than them. The fact still remains that Piccolo was able to fight evenly with Android 17 from the current timeline, who is stronger than Android 18, who is stronger than both Android 17 and 18 from the future timeline. Even if that only put Piccolo at 10% stronger than the future androids they would not be able to overcome it and defeat him. They had no way of getting stronger unlike the Z fighters.

Yes it does mean Cyborg 17 was telling the truth because they don't lie about their power. You are reaching. Because he had no reason to lie because he was clearly stronger than Future Gohan. They had been toying with them and future Gohan got trash when all this time he thought he had a chance when he stood no chance against them. You are arguing against the facts that is clearly stated to be otherwise. I can easily say Future Trunks is lying about his universe timeline Cyborgs being much weaker than the current universe timeline. Because at one point he said he could fight his cyborgs from his universe timeline for awhile. And then he said he was no match for them to his mother. If you are no match for someone you do not fight them for awhile. Because he ended up in a hospital and woke up 5 days later and still was in the hospital after that. That means they toyed with Future Trunks. They lead him on to believed that he could fight them for awhile just like they did to Future Gohan, though he lost an arm and we have no way of knowing how that happened.

It doesn't really prove that he was telling the truth, but either way it doesn't matter. The fact still remains that the androids from the current timeline were much stronger than the androids from the future timeline and Piccolo was fighting evenly with 17. Being able to fight evenly with one that was much stronger than his counterpart shows that he would have no problems with ones that are much weaker. And being able to fight them for a while doesn't mean he was a match for them. The Z fighters were able to fight Nappa for a while when he and Vegeta showed up on earth but none of them were actually a match for him.

Then cyborg 17 revealed that he was not using even half his strength that last time he fought Future Gohan which was a year and then Future Gohan had that facial expression that he was surprised which ought to tell you that he had no clue how powerful they really were. You would not be surprised at a lie like that especially if you been fighting them for so long since you know how powerful they really are. That is common sense that don't leave you astray. You would be amaze at the lie and not surprised by it. I will not dignify the last statement because it shows you are the one that know nothing about actual combat. Everyone that have had actual combat can tell if a person is holding back or not if they are not mislead, misguided, or blind because they will recognize it and is being aware of what is going on.

Yes, 17 was toying with Gohan, and I have no doubt he held back his power. But I do doubt that he was only using half of his power. Maybe its a personaly doubt but regardless, I just do not believe that he was only using 50% of his power. And you mention that he had no reason to lie, he had no reason to tell the truth either. He was about to kill Gohan regardless so what did it matter if he told the truth or a lie. And yes, if you were fighting someone and they stopped midfight and told you that they were holding back you would have no way of knowing if it was the truth or not in most situations. If you say otherwise you are either psychic or a liar. Just because you fight someone does NOT give you intimate knowledge of their true skill if they choose to hold back. This isn't the comic book world.

To be honest and truthful, they are Cyborgs. I have posted scans that said they are cyborg in the manga. Even Imperfect Cell said he is a cyborg. The only reason why you called them Androids is because of America called them that and never really read the manga to know what they really were call. The evidence clearly said they are cyborgs because they are made of human and robot parts. The definition also point to this:

Actually, this is the reason I called them androids: Chapter 335: Page 2

Search Results

cy·borgˈsīˌbôrɡ/nounnoun: cyborg; plural noun: cyborgs

  1. a fictional or hypothetical person whose physical abilities are extended beyond normal human limitations by mechanical elements built into the body.

Origin1960s: blend of cyber- and organism.

an·droidˈanˌdroid/nounnoun: android; plural noun: androids; noun: Android

  1. 1. (in science fiction) a robot with a human appearance.
    synonyms:robot, automaton, cyborg, droid, bot "a space station run by androids"
  2. 2. trademarkan open-source operating system used for smartphones and tablet computers."I have an Android phone and I like it a lot"

Cyborg 17 and 18 were once human and not a robot with a human appearance. They never was a cyborg until Dr. Gero (Cyborg 20) turn them into a cyborg. The only ones that are a Android are Android 16 and Android 19 or just Android 16. Since the two of them or one of them was made from nothing. I fully understand why you would say Androids or anyone for that matter. Because what sound better Cyborg 17 and 18 or Android 17 and 18? android 17 and 18 right? Now about you saying you never said Trunks hurt the Androids in his timeline universe. My fault for saying his universe I meant the current, however, he never manage to hurt any of the Cyborgs from any universe timeline until after the Room Of Spirit And Time. Your exact words are" I'm not saying they weren't stronger than he believed, but regardless he was fighting them and managed to hurt them. None of the Z fighters managed to hurt either of the Androids from the current timeline at all until after the training in the ROST. Which is wrong. None of the Z fighters fought either of the current universe timeline Cyborgs after Room Of Spirit And Time because they were absorb by Cell unless you are including him. Because they never fought them again and that is shown in both the anime and the manga.

Edit: So I'm gonna have to agree to disagree.

And again you misquoted or just misread. You only quoted part of what I said when if you had just gone back a single sentence you would see I was talking about Gohan, not Trunks. Future Gohan DID manage to hurt future 17 despite the androids being stronger than him.

All of that being said, it's a simple fact that because the future androids were much weaker than their counterparts in the current timeline and Piccolo after fusing with Kami was fighting 17 from the current timeline evenly and from everything shown would more than likely have beaten him if not for Cell showing up, there is literally no way in hell the future androids would be able to beat Piccolo fused with Kami.

He was telling the truth you cannot dent that.

I did not misquoted anything. You were talking about future Trunks and not future Gohan. The only time you were talking about Future Gohan was when you were talking about the surprised face Future Gohan made. And even if you were talking about Future Gohan you still is wrong because he never managed to hurt them at all. He was the one that got hurt and lost an arm for a whole year. And then he died. I don't see how he manage to hurt them.

The only simple fact we have is that they are weaker than their counterparts and not a definitive answer as to how much, we already established that will you get past that. And no Piccolo was not going to beat Cyborgs 17 even if he is equal to him. Because Cyborg 17 have infinite energy while Piccolo was getting tired. He tried his most powerful attack and it did not work because of Cyborg 17 shield.

And just because Gohan has surprise on his face doesn't mean anything. If I was fighting someone and they told me they were holding back I might be surprised, doesn't mean they were telling the truth. I'm not saying they weren't stronger than he believed, but regardless he was fighting them and managed to hurt them.

Perhaps you should read it better before you make false claims. Nowhere in there did I mention Trunks at all, I said CLEARLY Gohan. I'll have to find the scan but Future Gohan DID hurt Future 17 at one point in their fight.

Perhaps you should take your own advice. You said Gohan one time and then you go off talking about yourself. Which you were no longer talking about Gohan. And then you went off talking about Cyborg 17. You never said Gohan AGAIN. So again even if you were talking about Gohan (Which you were NO LONGER was) you still is wrong. Future Gohan never hurt Future Cyborg 17 at one point in the their battle because he did a sneak attack and that is it.

This is what you are talking about. He did a sneak attack on him because he was unaware of Future Gohan present.

The only thing he was hurt about was his clothes because they are only so many. He was not hurt. He mention Future Gohan got beaten badly the last time they fought. Which was a year ago.

Then he revealed that the last time they fought which was a year ago that he was not using even half of his strength. Future Gohan took a beaten from future Cyborg 17 and at the cost of his right arm when Future Cyborg 17 was not using half of his strength. That is why Future Gohan had that Surprised look on his face. Because he did not have a clue how strong they really were and he knew his demise was at hand.

And then he died.

#9 Edited by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

Godzilla wins

Is there anyone on MCU team that doesn't get one-shotted?

This.

@ratava said:

they simply wait till godzilla dies by going meltdown

easy win :)

Nah. No easy win. He survive that too and he still one shot them.

#10 Posted by terry2012 (6825 posts) - - Show Bio

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:
@randomsid said:

@terry2012 said:

@randomsid said:

@terry2012: The thread should not have been made anyway. It's a FACT that the future androids were weaker than the ones that the Z fighters faces. It's a FACT that after fusing with Kami Piccolo was able to go toe to toe with 17. It's also a FACT that Trunks was completely surprised by the amount of power the androids had in this timeline implying that they weren't just stronger than their future counterparts but hugely stronger. Piccolo after fusing with Kami would have no trouble whatsoever with the future androids. It's really a mismatch.

I know it is a FACT The cyborgs are weak than ones the Z fighter faced. But how much weak are they really are is all I'm saying? Nobody have answer the question. It is a FACT you are not telling me something that I don't already know.

Well, Gohan was weaker than Goku and he was facing them fairly evenly even with both at the same time. Even if they were only using half of their power(which all you have is a statement made by one of them), that would still place them much weaker than the androids from the current timeline. Why? Because at that point Goku and Vegeta were roughly the same power level and android 18 put him down with a single hit when she stopped playing with him. None of the Z fighters could even come close to fighting both of them evenly. You will never get an exact power difference because it doesn't exist, but you can estimate it and by all estimations a character that can stand up and go toe to toe evenly with one of the androids from the current timeline can wipe the floor with both androids from the future timeline.

That statement is more than enough evidence because of the facial expression on Future Gohan face, and then he died. I can easily say all you have is a statement made by Trunks. Because Future Cell was almost stronger than them. And he was from another parallel universe

Cell is a completely different thing. Trunks didn't even know about Cell at all and he was ALWAYS made to be stronger than the androids. And just because Gohan has surprise on his face doesn't mean anything. If I was fighting someone and they told me they were holding back I might be surprised, doesn't mean they were telling the truth. I'm not saying they weren't stronger than he believed, but regardless he was fighting them and managed to hurt them. None of the Z fighters managed to hurt either of the Androids from the current timeline at all until after the training in the ROST. And Vegeta, for instance, was stronger than the Gohan from the future.

No he is not a completely different thing. He did the same thing Trunks did and he was much stronger than main universe Cyborgs that Piccolo fought said by Kame in chapter 358 page 13. But then Cyborg 16 tell Cyborg 17 that one of them are strong enough to fight on equal terms with Cyborg 17. And yet Piccolo fought Imperfect Cell and was winning even though Kame said Imperfect Cell is much stronger than the cyborgs they were fighting until Imperfect Cell used Kamehameha wave and caught Piccolo and absorb some of his energy from Piccolo arm. They were equal despite what Kame said. That mean Imperfect Cell is also equal to the Cyborg 17. However the Cyborgs in his universe got destroyed and it never said by whom. It is assumed Trunks did it. Then Piccolo said that he is stronger than Imperfect Cell despite the energy he absorb from his arm. Then Imperfect Cell said when he become stronger than Cyborg 17 and18 he will absorb them. What character statement am I supposed to believe?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, it's very hard to read through. Cell was ALWAYS more powerful than the androids from the future. When he first came back to the past though he was weaker than them. He had to absorb people's energy to get to the power lever to be able to face them. That alone should tell you how much more powerful the androids from the current timeline were than the androids from the future.

When Future Gohan was surprised it meant something. It meant that he thought they were going all out against him when they were not. It also meant they were stronger than what they lead on and what future Gohan originally thought. Because it lead to his death. It also meant they could have done the same thing to Trunks. Cyborg 17 was telling the truth he had no reason to lie. And if you would be surprised by someone that would lie to you by saying they were holding back then you are unaware what is going on in the fight.

Yes, he was surprised because he thought they were going all out. It does NOT mean that 17 was telling the truth about only using half his power. They could have been using 75% of their power and when they ramped it up to 100% killed him fairly easily as well. When the power levels are that high even a 10% boost is a huge jump in power. I won't even dignify the last statement because it shows you know nothing about actual combat.

Future trunks did not manage to hurt the Cyborgs in his universe. He got stomp. His mother warned him not to go off and fight the Cyborgs however he did not heed the warning. She told him Future Gohan was around Future Trunks power and he did not fair well against them. Future Trunks ended up in a hospital and woke up and said to his mother that she was right that he stood no chance against them. And if you talking about current universe timeline Cyborgs then he did not hurt there either. He got floored by one punch from Cyborg 17 and never fought them again until he fought the ones from his universe timeline.

I never said future Trunks hurt the ANDROIDS(they are not cyborgs) in his timeline. I said Gohan did, and that is easily shown in both the Manga and the Anime.

I am saying you cannot trust their statement all the time. I am not TALKING about the Cyborgs from the future. I am talking about Cyborgs in the main universe is what Kame said. I even gave you the chapter and page number to where exactly what Kame said. Kame clearly said Imperfect Cell from the future is stronger than the Cyborgs in the current universe timeline. He did not say from Imperfect Cell future because his Cyborgs were destroyed in his universe timeline. However it turns out he was weaker than the current universe timeline Cyborgs but not by much. The rest is no concern because I already know that. And that alone wont tell me how much stronger they were than the Cyborgs from the future because it don't tell exactly how much like a definitive answer will. You said it yourself you wont get an estimation on how exactly much stronger they were than the future cyborgs. Since we don't know the gap they had anything about that is pure speculation because the manga is not being specific about that.

So you are basing your entire argument about cell based off of the simple line "There's a lifeform much stronger than those cyborgs"? Of course Cell was stronger, but that doesn't mean that he meant his power level was higher at that exact point. Especially when the very next page he is talking about it not being a danger that they can defeat and that it is a danger that will destroy everything. Seems to me that Kami was seeing what Cell would become and judging by that when he said that Cell was stronger than them. The fact still remains that Piccolo was able to fight evenly with Android 17 from the current timeline, who is stronger than Android 18, who is stronger than both Android 17 and 18 from the future timeline. Even if that only put Piccolo at 10% stronger than the future androids they would not be able to overcome it and defeat him. They had no way of getting stronger unlike the Z fighters.

Yes it does mean Cyborg 17 was telling the truth because they don't lie about their power. You are reaching. Because he had no reason to lie because he was clearly stronger than Future Gohan. They had been toying with them and future Gohan got trash when all this time he thought he had a chance when he stood no chance against them. You are arguing against the facts that is clearly stated to be otherwise. I can easily say Future Trunks is lying about his universe timeline Cyborgs being much weaker than the current universe timeline. Because at one point he said he could fight his cyborgs from his universe timeline for awhile. And then he said he was no match for them to his mother. If you are no match for someone you do not fight them for awhile. Because he ended up in a hospital and woke up 5 days later and still was in the hospital after that. That means they toyed with Future Trunks. They lead him on to believed that he could fight them for awhile just like they did to Future Gohan, though he lost an arm and we have no way of knowing how that happened.

It doesn't really prove that he was telling the truth, but either way it doesn't matter. The fact still remains that the androids from the current timeline were much stronger than the androids from the future timeline and Piccolo was fighting evenly with 17. Being able to fight evenly with one that was much stronger than his counterpart shows that he would have no problems with ones that are much weaker. And being able to fight them for a while doesn't mean he was a match for them. The Z fighters were able to fight Nappa for a while when he and Vegeta showed up on earth but none of them were actually a match for him.

Then cyborg 17 revealed that he was not using even half his strength that last time he fought Future Gohan which was a year and then Future Gohan had that facial expression that he was surprised which ought to tell you that he had no clue how powerful they really were. You would not be surprised at a lie like that especially if you been fighting them for so long since you know how powerful they really are. That is common sense that don't leave you astray. You would be amaze at the lie and not surprised by it. I will not dignify the last statement because it shows you are the one that know nothing about actual combat. Everyone that have had actual combat can tell if a person is holding back or not if they are not mislead, misguided, or blind because they will recognize it and is being aware of what is going on.

Yes, 17 was toying with Gohan, and I have no doubt he held back his power. But I do doubt that he was only using half of his power. Maybe its a personaly doubt but regardless, I just do not believe that he was only using 50% of his power. And you mention that he had no reason to lie, he had no reason to tell the truth either. He was about to kill Gohan regardless so what did it matter if he told the truth or a lie. And yes, if you were fighting someone and they stopped midfight and told you that they were holding back you would have no way of knowing if it was the truth or not in most situations. If you say otherwise you are either psychic or a liar. Just because you fight someone does NOT give you intimate knowledge of their true skill if they choose to hold back. This isn't the comic book world.

To be honest and truthful, they are Cyborgs. I have posted scans that said they are cyborg in the manga. Even Imperfect Cell said he is a cyborg. The only reason why you called them Androids is because of America called them that and never really read the manga to know what they really were call. The evidence clearly said they are cyborgs because they are made of human and robot parts. The definition also point to this:

Actually, this is the reason I called them androids: Chapter 335: Page 2

Search Results

cy·borgˈsīˌbôrɡ/nounnoun: cyborg; plural noun: cyborgs

  1. a fictional or hypothetical person whose physical abilities are extended beyond normal human limitations by mechanical elements built into the body.

Origin1960s: blend of cyber- and organism.

an·droidˈanˌdroid/nounnoun: android; plural noun: androids; noun: Android

  1. 1. (in science fiction) a robot with a human appearance.
    synonyms:robot, automaton, cyborg, droid, bot "a space station run by androids"
  2. 2. trademarkan open-source operating system used for smartphones and tablet computers."I have an Android phone and I like it a lot"

Cyborg 17 and 18 were once human and not a robot with a human appearance. They never was a cyborg until Dr. Gero (Cyborg 20) turn them into a cyborg. The only ones that are a Android are Android 16 and Android 19 or just Android 16. Since the two of them or one of them was made from nothing. I fully understand why you would say Androids or anyone for that matter. Because what sound better Cyborg 17 and 18 or Android 17 and 18? android 17 and 18 right? Now about you saying you never said Trunks hurt the Androids in his timeline universe. My fault for saying his universe I meant the current, however, he never manage to hurt any of the Cyborgs from any universe timeline until after the Room Of Spirit And Time. Your exact words are" I'm not saying they weren't stronger than he believed, but regardless he was fighting them and managed to hurt them. None of the Z fighters managed to hurt either of the Androids from the current timeline at all until after the training in the ROST. Which is wrong. None of the Z fighters fought either of the current universe timeline Cyborgs after Room Of Spirit And Time because they were absorb by Cell unless you are including him. Because they never fought them again and that is shown in both the anime and the manga.

Edit: So I'm gonna have to agree to disagree.

And again you misquoted or just misread. You only quoted part of what I said when if you had just gone back a single sentence you would see I was talking about Gohan, not Trunks. Future Gohan DID manage to hurt future 17 despite the androids being stronger than him.

All of that being said, it's a simple fact that because the future androids were much weaker than their counterparts in the current timeline and Piccolo after fusing with Kami was fighting 17 from the current timeline evenly and from everything shown would more than likely have beaten him if not for Cell showing up, there is literally no way in hell the future androids would be able to beat Piccolo fused with Kami.

He was telling the truth you cannot dent that.

I did not misquoted anything. You were talking about future Trunks and not future Gohan. The only time you were talking about Future Gohan was when you were talking about the surprised face Future Gohan made. And even if you were talking about Future Gohan you still is wrong because he never managed to hurt them at all. He was the one that got hurt and lost an arm for a whole year. And then he died. I don't see how he manage to hurt them.

The only simple fact we have is that they are weaker than their counterparts and not a definitive answer as to how much, we already established that will you get past that. And no Piccolo was not going to beat Cyborgs 17 even if he is equal to him. Because Cyborg 17 have infinite energy while Piccolo was getting tired. He tried his most powerful attack and it did not work because of Cyborg 17 shield.