Superdork's forum posts

#1 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

Well said--

I don't think this was done on purpose, but this ****ing bothers me:

That juxtaposition totally goes against everything the "Black is Beautiful" movement was about.

This movement began in an effort to counteract the prevailing idea in American culture that features typical of "Blacks" were less attractive or desirable than those of "Whites". Research indicates that the idea of "blackness" being ugly is highly damaging to the psyche of African Americans, manifesting itself as internalized racism.

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It would be different if everyone else on the team looked deformed or strange, but they don't.

http://www.comicvine.com/articles/vote-for-the-next-character-of-the-month-2-15/1100-151108/

Also:

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#2 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@zeeguy91 said:
@superdork said:

Why I Dislike Cyborg:

About Cyborg. I don't wish that character or his fans ill, really. But to be totally honest, there are definitely things involving him that bother me. Ultimately, I feel he's on the League more for the sake of White people than he is for Black people. I think he's there so White people can meet a quota without having to sacrifice any precious White heroes.

I've seen some Black people speak out against this and the exchange usually goes like this:

Black person: I would rather have John Stewart on the Justice League. Because I'm Black and I want an idealized Black role model on the team.

Non-Black person: You have Cyborg.

Black person: He's got no penis, only half a face, and he's a robot. He's far from idealized.

Non-Black person: I think you're the only person who worries about that.

Black person: I'm not. I think it's a legitimate grievance in this setting. I'd rather have John Stewart.

Non-Black: Cyborg is his own hero. At least he's not an alternate version of an already White character.

Black person: Okay, but I'd rather have John Stewart because I think he's way cooler.

Non-Black person: At least people can relate to Cyborg because of x reason(s).

Black person: I relate to John Stewart. He's a role model for me. I don't think I relate to a robot with no penis.

Non-Black person: Well, John Stewart doesn't have a motivation, a supporting cast (other stuff).

Black person: Yes he does. Just as much and even more so than Cyborg.

Non -Black person: But Cyborg... (and on it goes).

---

So, what I'm getting at is I see people who are not Black (and usually probably not any minority) and who are not faced with the issues I mentioned in the above post, trying to impress Cyborg upon peoplewho are Black and implying that they should like him better than John Stewart, even when they don't (and I feel this is what DC has tried to do). And honestly, I don't think a lot of people who fervently support Cyborg do so because they like the character, but rather so he can fulfill the role of 'Black guy' and they can have the White Green Lantern. That is the ultimate tokenism, if you ask me, because then that character isn't even there to appeal to actual Black people, but rather to ultimately serve an agenda for White people. This isn't to say that there aren't genuine Cyborg fans and genuine fans of his who are Black. But, I do think this is what is going on.

I just see so much wrong with Cyborg in the Justice League. It's not even so much about the character in and of himself, but rather what he's being used for, and what his being there brings out in certain fans I've seen. If DC/WB puts John Stewart is put in the Justice League, with or without Cyborg, all of this will go away.

A few counterpoints:

Firstly, Nobody is trying to impose Cyborg on you. If you don't like him, fine, but don't invent conspiracy theories about how Cyborg is a tool to keep African Americans down or that it is somehow "wrong" for DC to put Cyborg on the Justice League. Neither of those arguments hold much weight.

Secondly, DC has a right to whatever they please with their characters. They can place whoever the hell they want on the Justice League and no person or group has the right to tell them different. If you don't like it, then just don't read it.

Thirdly, there are a significant amount of people who just think Cyborg is cool and wanted him on the JL. He was actually on there for a short stint before the New 52 and was always the most mature of the Titans. The character grew to the point where having him on the Titans for much longer would feel forced. Geoff Johns has long stated that Cyborg is one of his favorite characters, so when he wanted to replace Martian Manhunter, which I don't necessarily think was even a good idea (why not just have MM and Cyborg on the team), he chose Cyborg. I personally love Cyborg. Have you ever read some of the old Teen Titans comics? He's a bad ass character whose character development exhibits a lot of pathos.

Fourthly, John Stewart is not the end all, be all of black characters in comics. For me (and I'm speaking as a minority reader here since that apparently matters to you), John Stewart is the worst. He's boring, judgmental of others (even when he fucks up just as badly, if not worse), and is kind of a stereotype.

And finally, yeah, it is kind of important that Cyborg built his own identity without any white predecessors coming before him. Simply replacing Hal with John sends the message that black characters are only good as replacements for white characters and that, to accomplish anything, a black character needs a white character to lead the way. I feel the same way about what Marvel is now doing with Falcon (essentially stripping him of an identity that made him unique and making him Steve Rogers' stand-in).

I'm not gonna even talk about how stupid that penis argument is...

Yeah... No.

I don't know if you've got a complex or something, since plenty of white legacy characters like Barry Allen and Scott are getting lots of love despite not being the first to hold the mantle.

What I do know is that, intentional or not, having the ONLY founding person of color on the Justice League be both HORRIFICALLY DEFORMED and EUTHANIZED is an ugly parallel of racist images used to hurt the psychologies of African Americans in the past.

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This is made worse by the fact that DC is currently using Cyborg as their poster boy for the Black community. It would be different if he were on a team of monstrous looking people like the Teen Titans, but that is not the case. This reminds me of when Denny O'Neil de-powered Wonder Woman, the only woman on the team. Continue to ignore it if you want because you don't give a damn about how these images can affect the way African Americans see themselves in the DCU or the way others see African Americans from the outside, but I won't ignore it. I want equality, and I won't get that until the African American poster boy looks as good as the heroes he stands next to. Oh, and let's not forget 2 things:

  • John Stewart can carry a solo title while Cyborg cannot
  • I voted for Storm, meaning I don't think John is the "be all and end all" of Black heroes.

I would be happy to see any of the choices on the list win, but I would be sorely disappointed in this community if Victor "1-Step-Forward-50-Steps-Back" Stone won this poll just because he serves an agenda for people who have a problem with John Stewart being on the Justice League and who are willing to push their agenda despite it's ugly implications.

#3 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

@serrure said:

looks like T'challa has this locked down but if you ask me Luke Cage would have provided more interesting battles

John Stewart is gaining on him, and Miles is holding steady.

#4 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait!

#5 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not like Singer has a history of keeping the Black characters on screen--Storm, Bishop, or Darwyn. He does ove to co-opt Black culture though.

#6 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio
@captain13 said:
Green Lantern aka John Stewart

In Brief

Formerly an architect, social activist, and U.S. Marine sniper, John Stewart was selected by the Guardians of the Universe to be the Green Lantern of Sector 2814. Proving time and again to be an exceptional champion in missions that have taken him across the cosmos, John is a force to be reckoned with; an emerald beacon shining in darkest night.

Publication History

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Recommended Reading

Who else loves that Neal Adams clip? For the memories:

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#7 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

Why I Dislike Cyborg:

About Cyborg. I don't wish that character or his fans ill, really. But to be totally honest, there are definitely things involving him that bother me. Ultimately, I feel he's on the League more for the sake of White people than he is for Black people. I think he's there so White people can meet a quota without having to sacrifice any precious White heroes.

I've seen some Black people speak out against this and the exchange usually goes like this:

Black person: I would rather have John Stewart on the Justice League. Because I'm Black and I want an idealized Black role model on the team.

Non-Black person: You have Cyborg.

Black person: He's got no penis, only half a face, and he's a robot. He's far from idealized.

Non-Black person: I think you're the only person who worries about that.

Black person: I'm not. I think it's a legitimate grievance in this setting. I'd rather have John Stewart.

Non-Black: Cyborg is his own hero. At least he's not an alternate version of an already White character.

Black person: Okay, but I'd rather have John Stewart because I think he's way cooler.

Non-Black person: At least people can relate to Cyborg because of x reason(s).

Black person: I relate to John Stewart. He's a role model for me. I don't think I relate to a robot with no penis.

Non-Black person: Well, John Stewart doesn't have a motivation, a supporting cast (other stuff).

Black person: Yes he does. Just as much and even more so than Cyborg.

Non -Black person: But Cyborg... (and on it goes).

---

So, what I'm getting at is I see people who are not Black (and usually probably not any minority) and who are not faced with the issues I mentioned in the above post, trying to impress Cyborg upon peoplewho are Black and implying that they should like him better than John Stewart, even when they don't (and I feel this is what DC has tried to do). And honestly, I don't think a lot of people who fervently support Cyborg do so because they like the character, but rather so he can fulfill the role of 'Black guy' and they can have the White Green Lantern. That is the ultimate tokenism, if you ask me, because then that character isn't even there to appeal to actual Black people, but rather to ultimately serve an agenda for White people. This isn't to say that there aren't genuine Cyborg fans and genuine fans of his who are Black. But, I do think this is what is going on.

I just see so much wrong with Cyborg in the Justice League. It's not even so much about the character in and of himself, but rather what he's being used for, and what his being there brings out in certain fans I've seen. If DC/WB puts John Stewart is put in the Justice League, with or without Cyborg, all of this will go away.

http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?1107-Green-Lantern-John-Stewart-Appreciation-Thread/page21

I don't think this was done on purpose, but this ****ing bothers me:

That juxtaposition totally goes against everything the "Black is Beautiful" movement was about.

This movement began in an effort to counteract the prevailing idea in American culture that features typical of "Blacks" were less attractive or desirable than those of "Whites". Research indicates that the idea of "blackness" being ugly is highly damaging to the psyche of African Americans, manifesting itself as internalized racism.

Loading Video...

It would be different if everyone else on the team looked deformed or strange, but they don't.

I voted Storm because she's a great character who isn't done justice on film and is one of the few heroes girls of color can look up to.

Black Panther, Blade, John Stewart, Luke Cage, and Miles Morales are top notch choices too.

#8 Posted by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

About Cyborg. I don't wish that character or his fans ill, really. But to be totally honest, there are definitely things involving him that bother me. Ultimately, I feel he's on the League more for the sake of White people than he is for Black people. I think he's there so White people can meet a quota without having to sacrifice any precious White heroes.

I've seen some Black people speak out against this and the exchange usually goes like this:

Black person: I would rather have John Stewart on the Justice League. Because I'm Black and I want an idealized Black role model on the team.

Non-Black person: You have Cyborg.

Black person: He's got no penis, only half a face, and he's a robot. He's far from idealized.

Non-Black person: I think you're the only person who worries about that.

Black person: I'm not. I think it's a legitimate grievance in this setting. I'd rather have John Stewart.

Non-Black: Cyborg is his own hero. At least he's not an alternate version of an already White character.

Black person: Okay, but I'd rather have John Stewart because I think he's way cooler.

Non-Black person: At least people can relate to Cyborg because of x reason(s).

Black person: I relate to John Stewart. He's a role model for me. I don't think I relate to a robot with no penis.

Non-Black person: Well, John Stewart doesn't have a motivation, a supporting cast (other stuff).

Black person: Yes he does. Just as much and even more so than Cyborg.

Non -Black person: But Cyborg... (and on it goes).

---

So, what I'm getting at is I see people who are not Black (and usually probably not any minority) and who are not faced with the issues I mentioned in the above post, trying to impress Cyborg upon people who are Black and implying that they should like him better than John Stewart, even when they don't (and I feel this is what DC has tried to do). And honestly, I don't think a lot of people who fervently support Cyborg do so because they like the character, but rather so he can fulfill the role of 'Black guy' and they can have the White Green Lantern. That is the ultimate tokenism, if you ask me, because then that character isn't even there to appeal to actual Black people, but rather to ultimately serve an agenda for White people. This isn't to say that there aren't genuine Cyborg fans and genuine fans of his who are Black. But, I do think this is what is going on.

I just see so much wrong with Cyborg in the Justice League. It's not even so much about the character in and of himself, but rather what he's being used for, and what his being there brings out in certain fans I've seen. If DC/WB puts John Stewart is put in the Justice League, with or without Cyborg, all of this will go away.

http://community.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?1107-Green-Lantern-John-Stewart-Appreciation-Thread/page21

Discuss

#9 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man (Standard Versions)

VS

Cyborg, Green Lantern, and Superman (New 52)

#10 Edited by Superdork (1035 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd support this since he looks hella awesome. The circuitry pumping through his arm veins is a cool way to show that he's plugged in.

For some reason I keep forgetting that the Red Room is part of ARGUS. That should be a cool way to get him involved in different stories--in the same way that Barry has his crime lab and Clark has the Daily Planet. I think Wonder Woman also has ties to ARGUS--not sure if she's an "agent" though.