superbatprime

@DeathpooltheT1000: It's not that people hate Moore per se, I mean he didn't ever really go off the rails like Miller and start writing really poor stuff, I'm hard pressed to think of a Moore story I don't like... I think it's more a case of everybody being sick of Alan moaning all the time whenever anything happens with characters he created.

V for Vendetta for example, I think they did a great job with that movie and Moore's constant bitching just made me start to dislike him.

Whenever a movie gets made or a new book is announced with characters or stories he created the first thing you always see is the headline "Moore condemns new *insert title here* movie/book" ...it just starts to get annoying after a while, particularly because he usually gets invited to participate in production and just refuses on some bullcrap principle.

He's become a miserable old fart while Morrison is still a very upbeat positive guy with loads of enthusiasm for the genre.

I can appreciate that he never wants to become a bitter cranky old man.

Who doesn't respect her?

Any DC reader I talk to is always very fond of her.

What I always liked about her in JLA books is she always seemed (unlike most) to have a life outside the whole superhero scene, but to me it was a mysterious life, I've never read her in anything except the League so I could only imagine what strange adventures she was having and what her life was like.

I respected her because the other characters respected her, she was part of the league but independent of the league... like I said, a mysterious figure which is fitting for a magician.

I like the way she is kinda like a goto specialist on magic matters, Batman's got a problem with an occult serial killer vanishing without a trace?

He dials Z.

I really should find some Zatanna trades one of these days.

Can you provide some examples of your work?

@ReVamp said:

People trying to justify this. Funny.

Not trying to "justify" anything.

Just saying "bad writing!" or "PIS!" (same thing) gets old.

Nothing wrong with attempting to examine potential reasons how he could do this if it provides a somewhat decent opposition position for the thread (which I would hope I am at least coming close to and I hope is what OP would want for his thread).

@CitizenBane: @CitizenBane said:

@superbatprime: During the Three Ghosts of Batman arc, he collapsed after getting literally stomped by Bat-Bane.

Ah yes.

Sorry to take so long to respond but obviously I started reading it once I pulled it out lol.

I don't consider that moment "less severe", in fact it's a totally different set of circumstances and trauma, but fair enough...

High velocity stomp to the spine from a 300lb+ dude juiced up not only on venom but Hugo Strange monster serum too.

That's after being hurled through a glass window with enough force to fly across the alley and impact the opposite wall with enough force to dislodge bricks (head first by the looks of it).

Injuries at or below the thoracic spinal levels result in paraplegic symptoms, the loss of muscle control in the torso and/or legs for example, collapse is a physiological reaction in this case.

Yet he lost consciousness (probably the head trauma from the wall) for only a few moments, (less time than he was seemingly unable to prevent Talon from dragging his ass around) came around in the back of Roxy's car, got back to the penthouse and called Alfred.

Obviously in the current predicament with the Owls he doesn't have the luxury of calling Alfred for a few painkillers and a couple of hours sleep (which is all it took in 3 Ghosts for him to be fully functional and able to defeat the Bat-Bane)... AND HE KNOWS IT.

A "normal" human would not be able to do the above, I think we can agree on that.

I think your example only serves to prove that he could come back from nowhere and kick Talons ass. :/

And again I'll point to the precedent set in RIP, I would consider what the Black Glove did to be more severe than what the Owls are doing to him ( of course that's on my personal scale of "severity" so it may differ from yours).

Finally... If a "normal" human can do something like Aron Ralston then what somebody like Batman is capable of under extreme physiological and psychological crisis must be far beyond anything you or I could conceive.

Let's try to find some common definitions.

If Aron Ralston's actions earn him a score of 1 on an imaginary scale of human potential and the scale has no upper limit then what number does Batman rate in your opinion?

@CitizenBane: give an example so we can compare, my memory fails me.

Well since OP forgot to say why it wouldn't work... despite the thread title claiming otherwise, I'll tell you why it wouldn't work.

It has to do with something comic book fans forget, ie: John Q Public is who makes millions for movies, not the relatively tiny community of actual fans.

Ok bear with me as I ramble on for a while...

Iron Man, Thor... You want to know the truth?

The mass public didn't have a clue who these characters were before the movies.

Captain America was just a name, the Hulk was just a concept (big green angry guy right? Sure I know who the Hulk is).

Hawkeye? Black Widow? Nick Fury?

Forget it, the masses didn't have a clue.

Thor would have flopped btw, if not for the fact that the public had been shown that something bigger was going on.

But now even the non comic book reader is hyped for the Avengers, Marvel have carefully and patiently joined the dots for the public, gently introduced the characters and established their connections to the big picture, they had a level playing field for each character, no one character overshadowed any other... So in the Avengers, all will be equal in the public eye.

Good job Marvel eh?

DC on the other hand own the two names that everyone knows... Batman and Superman, the public knows them as well as they know Mickey Mouse or Jesus.

They are the great shadows that fall over and obscure any other character DC have (to the public).

Green Lantern was a brave but ultimately doomed attempt to bring another JLA member into the public eye... It failed, no don't argue, it failed... Green Lantern did not become equal to Bats or Supes in the public mind... Fail.

Then there was the Wonder Woman 2011 pilot... Enough said.

DC are both privileged and cursed by their ownership of Batman and Superman, it's the existence of these two that cripple any chance of a JLA movie from working, that dooms any chance of a movie featuring the Flash or Aquaman from being a hit and consequently preventing DC from raising other characters to the same status in the mass media.

Which in turn means that to the public a JLA movie will always be a Superman/Batman movie... with a bunch of other guys.

Sooo... what DC need to do is forget about a JLA movie, forget about trying to beat Marvel at a game Marvel has already won (Avengers about to release, anticipation high and positive, job done) and work towards a Worlds Finest movie instead.

So join me now and purge all thoughts of a JLA movie, join me now and raise your voices so Warner Bros can hear WORLDS FINEST!

Ok I'm done rambling... Jeez I wonder if that all made any sense, hell with it, I'll just hit 'post' and run.

:P

By her own admission she is not a superhero.

But that doesn't mean she couldn't stop Superman dead in his tracks with a single sentence.

The fact that she is cute is just a bonus, Zee is not to be messed with, she is one of the most dangerous people on Earth.

Well hang on, how do we know he couldn't do this?

He is decribed as being the paragon of human potential in terms both physical and mental.

He is the true Übermensch in the originally intended definition of the word(because aliens with superpowers don't count, see?) surpassing normal human limits and exceeding normal human ability.

So how do we know what such a man is capable of?

What are we comparing him to?

Surely not ourselves, surely not any RL example lol.

We have no precedent, we have no comparison to such a man, we cannot define his limits because we have no benchmark.

Actually, I am incorrect, we have a precedent... Himself.

He came back from being starved, drugged, brutally beaten and buried alive in RIP (and Joker said he would, obviously it takes an insane person to grasp the potential of the human being who has reached the level of Batman.)

To call him "just a man", to say he is "a normal human" is epic fail.

There is nothing remotely "normal" about him.

Well a quick glance over the thread has Dick Grayson garnering the most votes so far I think.

That's cool.