Super_SoldierXII

That's not what I said. I said that they are certainly factors that need to be included and considered when determining whether one is street or mid tier. You don't think durability is a factor in determining power levels? Is that what you're telling me? And then you're going to straight faced say that I don't know what I'm talking about? Address what someone is actually saying if you're going to try and ridicule them for it. You'll come off better that way.

In order to not be a street leveler you have to be a heavy hitter, so immense strength or high-end energy projection/manipulation.

So just to be clear, according to you, the only two criteria to not be a "street leveler" are immense super strength and / or high-end energy projection ... you sure about that? Is your source your own imagination by any chance?

Wolverine being able to take a beat down from Hulk doesn't mean he is above street level especially not when street levelers can beat him down just the same

That's not what was being said either. That's you trying to be facetious. But for giggles, list off street levelers who take a majority over Wolverine. There are some (as styles make fights), but the list sure as shit ain't a long one.

@guccibrick:

spidey has lifted much more than 40 tons before.

Consensus of both Marvel creators (official handbook power grid) and fans based off feats is Spidey's strength levels hover in the 25 ton range.

you don't know much about spiderman.

I haven't kept up on my Spidey books over the years, no. So, compared to a few of the experts on the Vine, and you are not proving yourself to be one (all due respect), I guess I don't. But I certainly know enough to get a bit of a chuckle herein.

telling me about logan being a martial artist with super strength, reflexes and combat speed is utterly pointless.

Lol. It's utterly pointless is it? Do tell.

spidermans much stronger,

Already addressed this. Spider-Man's strength is not at a level to overly threaten the likes of Wolverine. It'll score him some wins, but without the webbing, he'll get nailed before ultimately dropping Logan;

much faster, and has some of the best reflexes out of any marvel hero.

Whoa good sir (or madam), that's a bold statement. Better reflexes than ANY Marvel hero you say? Nice little false blanket comment there. Listen, he definitely has better avoidance feats than Wolverine, simply because Wolverine doesn't have to avoid and doesn't have the ultimate super power (spider-sense) to aid in avoidance. But listen, I'll be polite and grant two and a half reasons why Wolverine's combat reflexes keep up just fine;

no logan doesn't have claws for hands he has claws coming out of his hands.

Wow ... I mean ... we learn something new everyday!

spiderman doesn't need any skill for this, he will evade all of logans claw strikes, walk up to him, and pummel him or hold him down. There isn't going to be any "grapple contest", because people don't have grapple contests with someone 20 times stronger than them or 1/20 as strong as they are. sebastian shaw doesnt have reflexes or strength anything like spiderman. wolverine has done well against super strong people like hulk or the thing because they are very slow. spiderman isn't, hes much faster, yet he still has a very big strength gap over logan. If he wishes to do so he can in fact just pin logan down and logan wouldn't be able to touch him with the claws. his claws are the only thing that allows him to hurt people like spiderman my friend.

Assuming you're a very young individual at this point, either that or you're trolling me, so I will simply respectfully tell you, that yours was among the silliest and most ill thought out arguments as to how and why Spider-Man beats Wolverine in a brawl I have, in my 10 years frequenting the Vine, seen. All the best.

What is a "standard" Amazon in your mind? They were clearly not standard because ... you say so? I would agree that not all are equal, but that's like saying not all Seals on Seal Team Six are equal. Some are 155 pounds and can do 25 pull-ups, some are 220 pounds and can do 25 pull-ups. Obviously the bigger blokes are stronger overall, but they're all in wicked shape and they're all elite soldiers ...

The two elected to hold up the stone were probably elected because they were physically stronger than the average Amazonian. Even if we want to posit they were twice as strong, for giggles, the run of the mill Amazonian warrior should still prove stronger than Steve based off that feat ...

he can literally grab and toss him. thor and hulk have done it before... spidey can grab and toss him no trouble. spidey is much stronger and faster.

How does tossing Logan into water = drowning him? He'd obviously have to hold him down, and this is where he'd have to gain superior positioning on Wolverine in an in close grapple contest first. Not going to happen. Spider-Man has better avoidance than Wolverine (by power-set and by necessity) but his combat reflexes, if faster, are only very, very minimally so. Wolverine can hang, and has, with Parker's combat reflex speed without problem. And Parker's strength levels are in no way overly problematic for Wolverine as with the adamantium and healing factor, he can relatively easily cope with that level of blunt force trauma.

i think he would in fact be able to dodge all claw strikes. wolverine aint tagging him if spidey dont want him to.

But you see, what you "think" does not reflect what actually happens in the comics. So your opinion is pure fanboy fiction here. Which is fine in and of itself, it just means you're objectively wrong.

he can also literally just hold wolverines arms in place and just stand there holding his arms down. wolverine wouldnt be able to break free from someone 50+ times stronger than him.

You don't know much about Wolverine. Spider-Man cannot just walk up to Logan, engage in a grapple contest (to pin his arms) with a master martial artist who also has enhanced reflexes and combat speed - to what extent you are clearly unaware. And once again, who has claws for hands! Far more likely Parker will get skewered trying. Sebastian Shaw, with his strength levels amped up to over class 100 levels, was not able to just "hold Wolverine down" and he had him pinned from behind (less kinky than it sounds).

Finally, Parker is not 50 times stronger than Logan. Wolverine's strength levels are in the 2 ton range. Parker is not class 100 (unless he got a recent upgrade I am unaware of). Strength is not a deciding factor in this contest.

Sparring with Diana on a daily and giving her a proper challenge (even after she clearly surpassed them in power) is not to be overlooked.

@guccibrick:

spiderman can knock him out with repeated strikes (albeit temporarily)

Yes, after many repeated strikes, but by far not the more likely outcome.

he can also drown him, or put something really heavy on top of him (with his arms positioned in a way he cant move them or cut out of the object)

He would need a few things for this; a body of water nearby and more importantly, he'd need to get in close and grapple a master martial artist with claws for hands. Really, really would not work to Parker's advantage.

spidey without the webbing can still take logan out since he would dodge and evade all claw strikes using spidey sense

Spider-Man would not be able to dodge "all" claw strikes against a serious minded Wolverine. Not even close. Feats do not back this theory at all. Logan's tagged him many times. Once without even meaning to (while holding back). I think Spidey could win a few. But not a majority in a brawl with the Wolverine. Not without incapacitating him through tech (i.e. webbing).

Hey, look at me, back only a few days and already debating Spider-Man vs. Wolverine once again, for the thousandth time. Lol.

I gotcha. You just made it seem as though the question was not even debatable. I feel it is debatable, just based off Logan's durability factor being completely off the charts when compared to standard street levelers. Also his damage output being able to hurt, even outright kill, higher level supers.

Ironic that you don't appear to either. Damage output is not the only "qualification". He can survive a fist that can level a building along with lightning blasts from fingertips. Can Punisher, Cap, Bruce or DD? More than that, he stays in the fight. Not all about offense. Defense / durability (avoidance / spider-sense / speed etc.) mean something in gauging power levels.

It is a qualification, as it means Spider-Man wins via incapacitation only. That's all we're saying. If Parker brawls with Wolverine, he takes a dirt-nap. His only real surefire way to win is webbing Logan up.

Amazons don't have a whole lot of feats behind them. But their physicals outweigh Steve's (at least in theory) and they spend their days training in hand to hand.

Comparing a hand to hand fight against Steve with numbers, to them fighting against what essentially boils down to machine gun fire (they are not bullet proof but Steve is not bringing guns to this fight), is an unfair comparison. Styles make fights. We know this. Need to avoid the ABC logic here peeps. On the beachfront fight, they were in an open terrain fight against semi automatic weapons with little to no knowledge of said weaponry and even less defense (mostly offensive hand to hand weaponry), and still took out a battleship full of German soldiers.

Put one amazon in an elevator full of soldiers cramped together, and I wouldn't bet against that single Amazonian warrior taking them out ...

I'd take Steve against 3 - 5 Amazonian warriors, but not much more than that ... Folks thinking he'll take out 50+ in hand to hand are being a little "rambunctious".

You're right. He's probably a bit above ...