Storm Calling's forum posts

#1 Edited by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@storm_calling said:
@darkraiden said:

@storm_calling: Johnny has used Supernova on Doom. He was unaffected and used no forcefield.

Really? That's a bit surprising to me. Do you have the issue # this happened in?

The one where he killed his old girlfriend....Unthinkable I think.

He was being amped up by netherdemons' magic and given special armor(the flesh of Valeria). A feat that required him to sacrifice the one person who loved him. He was far more durable than normal in this scenario, and could tank even having Sue put her force field though his eye sockets and Ben snapping his head all the way around. This was eventually turned against him and he lost that power and the armor, and it's unlikely that he'd be able to regain this power back, considering Valeria is still dead and the netherdemons no longer trust him...

Johnny rarely hits with an attack like that, let alone at Doom under normal circumstances. If he had access to the Beyonder, Silver Surfer, or the Netherdemons' powers in this matchup, then I could see how this would be a clear stomp. But I have yet to see anything that would suggest he could come up with something to deal with what the Head Captain could dish in under three hours. He could easily wipe out Latveria and torch him before he could even react.

#2 Posted by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@storm_calling I actually lost my interest in bleach after Yamaji died, that was hard to watch, he was the strongest and always portrayed that way when he was fighting, but in that instant when Yhwach cut him down, he looked so pitiful being an old man likely added to that effect but still it was wrenching for me to see it, I know he wasn't the most popular character in the series but he was my favorite, I'm only reading the manga now to see how troll Kubos ending will be.

Good to hear, he was actually my favorite as well. I stopped reading around that period because of the same reasons. My brother still reads it, so I keep tabs on whats going on every now and then. I definitely miss the show though. Nice to meet another Yamaji/Marvel fan around these parts. :)

#3 Edited by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

@storm_calling: Johnny has used Supernova on Doom. He was unaffected and used no forcefield.

Really? That's a bit surprising to me. Do you have the issue # this happened in?

#4 Posted by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver: Fair enough, and I enjoyed our debate as well. Maybe more posters will come by and spread a bit more insight for this battle.

And LOL! Very nice song choice!

#5 Edited by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver:

Johnny's "nova" flame has been widely considered to be hyperbole at best and I don't see how the movie Doom is relevant here when the origins of his powers are completely different. We're talking about his physical body being turned into living armor that can absorb and shoot electricity vs his comic counterpart wearing armor that can repel attacks and can use sorcery to cast lightning. It's just not the same thing and isn't relevant to this debate. Also, the barriers they setup for fake Kurakura town didn't take much time at all. It was Urahara's invention, Tenkai Kecchu, and is just four pillars that swap out an area on Earth with another in the Soul Society.

I think we have reached an impasse. I could go on and on about why I disagree and provide evidence, but I don't think we will convince each other either way. So I will just agree to disagree on how this battle will turn out and call it a day.

#6 Edited by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@viperians said:

@storm_calling: According to you Storm is coping with the darkness and small spaces. Well, I say she hasn't. Here are some proof.

She looks like she almost die. Thanks to Wolverine's spirit who saved her from her insanity. She will always be afraid of small spaces and darkness and it will always be her weaknesses. Storm never cope from claustrophobia and Magneto can easily win her.

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself. I've already read the book and her claustrophobia has nothing to do with why she can't escape or is in this situation. lol. She wrestled an unnatural supercell into a massive sink hole and was trapped under a ton of rumble deep underground. Furthermore, Wolverine's spirit saved her? Get real. We both know she was hallucinating(which she stated on panel) and it helped her cope with the situation. She did not succumb to her claustrophobia in this scenario either, and even without the hallucination she is still coping underground as we speak in the latest issue.

Also, like I pointed out before. Nothing about this indicated that the darkness was the issue. She is NOT afraid of the dark, she "almost" panicked because she was entombed under mountains of Earth. Not a single one of your scans has indicated that the darkness was an issue.

And Magneto being a team buster is irrelevant. Mister Sinister is a team buster and Storm easily soloed and defeated him with no problem whatsoever very recently.

she can easily part the geomagnetic fields and the ozone layer of the Earth to bring in deadly sun rays to disperse a massive tsunami wave instantly.

and can easily generate solar winds across the entire planet to create a global aurora borealis for four hours, and controlling it to such a degree that it wouldn't cause damage to the Earth.

#7 Posted by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

Umm, that little gif is only the start of the attack... Aizen had Wonderwiess absorb the flames and seal his zanpaktou before it could finish. After Yamamoto beat the crap out of Wonderwiess, the flames came bursting through him and would've destroyed the whole city and wiped away the barrier to the fake city, taking along with the real kurakura town with it. So it's not only a city buster, it's a multi-city buster attack. Not to mention, Yamamoto was able to absorb these flames into his body to prevent it from killing anyone(proving his level of durability to the attack). Yamamoto demonstrated this technique again in the anime to destroy copies of three top Captains, and survived the completed portion.

They were not in a city they were in a town, and we don't know that the town would have been destroyed that was a statement not a feat, if you can show him actually busting a city with raw power then I will accept it, otherwise it is just hype. And I'm not arguing that Doom has an advantage in AOE Destructive Capacity by the way just for the record, I think it's clear that the old mans attack covers a wider swath of the terrain.

I haven't seen anything from that attack that would put Doom down, if you have seen something I haven't in the manga show it, I have shown scans of Dooms durability it's going to take more than some flames to do the job, he fights against Johnny Storm quite a bit and if Johnny goes Supernova he would be about 6,000 times hotter than the sun itself, also Susan Storm has admitted that Dooms Shields are stronger than hers.

This is non sense. It was much more than a statement, it was actually happening on panel before Yamamoto absorbed the attack. Why would Yamamoto absorb the flames and Aizen bank on him absorbing the flames(since he still needed Kurakura town) if it weren't true? The point of the attack was to trap Aizen inside of the fake city to burn it all down. He even stated that he was willing to kill all of his squad members to bring him down. And it is at least the size of a small city. Don't let the "town" name confuse you. His attack could have extended across a distance greater than Kurakura town. In either case, this attack could surely destroy Latveria, since Kurakura town is around the same size anyway.

Johnny going super nova is an exaggeration. It's actually the temperature of the sun, and he's never used this attack on Doom in the comics, and he very rarely uses that sort of heat on Earth without Sue shielding him. So absolutely not with that scan you posted of Doom putting out his flame with a micro blizzard.

Yes he does have the advantage, the fight takes place on his home turf end of story, he will be able to set up an ambush in any number of ways, and he has fast access to whatever he needs from his castle, a man like Doom can do a LOT in three hours.

His home can be destroyed and his residents used against him.

It doesn't even the player field when you consider Dooms prep is light years ahead of Yama, I ask you to show me something notable he has even done with prep.

I've already pointed out that he could setup a fake city and destroy him there. It's exactly what he tried to do with Aizen.

Doom is the Ruler of Latveria and regularly fights against some of the best marvel has to offer, and with prep as we all know he takes on entities far above his weight class on the regular as well, that trumps being the Head Captain of the Gotei 13 in my opinion.

This doesn't have anything to do with what I said. I was pointing out how he would have a relatively large zombie army to summon at his command, and it's due to him being the head captain for a millennium.

It is the case in nearly every bleach battle I have seen, if you don't remove invisibility and soul crush it can be a no limit fallacy from the get go, there is nothing to suggest soul crush can bother Dooms shields either so ...say he has info on the old man, he casts a spell to protect himself from reisatsu crush lol

Then it wouldn't be difficult for you to point me where it was shown that it is banned from being used? Doom is a sorcerer with an awareness to the spiritual world. That would make him vulnerable to a spiritual crush by default, unless he is powerful enough to withstand it or can shield himself.

Thanos had no real reason to hold back his strike, Doom was attempting to catch him off guard and steal the gauntlet for himself, I'd say being launched through space and surviving an impact straight into a planet is pretty damn ridiculous for a human power armor or not, especially when the same impact in the one scan knocked Galactus out and Doom walked away, he also tanked an atomic grenade I posted that scan earlier as well.

So, you've concluded that Doom tanked an attack that even Galactus could not withstand and can tank Thanos' best shot, since he had no reason to hold back? Very well.

Actually I'll just end this whole fire thing right now here is a clip of movie Doom who is way weaker than comic Doom in terms of feats, watch Johnny go Supernova here and when he is done Doom "That the best you can do a little heat?" it wasn't until Reed hit him with the water that he was defeated, the fire alone didn't even bother him, keep in mind Sue has to contain that fire so it doesn't harm everyone else in the area.

Movie Doom? You know that doesn't count here, and even if it did, the Supernova was again an exaggeration and a title for his attack. Earlier in the film when he went hot as he could when they were testing him, it was stated to be around the temperature of the sun. And given your example, Doom was defeated by this attack since all they had to do was throw water on him from a fire hydrant.

Doom does care about his people, but his history is very clear that when his own existence is on the line he is going to put himself first, after all what is Latveria moving forward without Doom? he cannot imagine a scenario where his country will be better off without him so he will justify their sacrifice on that basis.

Yeah... That's not enough to change my mind that he won't be effected.

He doesn't have what it takes to crack Doom just watch the video I posted above, if he uses Ittokaso he will blow himself up in the process anyway, or at least he will lose a limb like he did against Aizen, and with that as in the manga I think it is time to say..

Losing a limb does not mean he dies though, but in Dooms case, a blast like that would likely incinerate him.

#8 Posted by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

The point was that he has drained beings far greater than Yamamoto, he won't need nearly as much time to put something together to deal with the old man.

He does not have those environmental/situational advantages here. Nor does he have the time.

Kido is impressive within Bleachverse, but if you follow the line of reasoning you are using, then kido can hang with sorcery on the level of Doom/Strange/Morgan Le Fay, also Yamamoto is not a single city buster let alone a multicity buster you have yet to show him doing this, he is a small town buster at the best of his ability from what I have seen.

He is, and the kido in Bleach is very powerful. I don't think it's AS powerful as the magic that Doom/Strange/Margan Le Fay wields, but with his Zanpaktou and soul reaper powers, he is powerful enough to even the playing field with that gap.

Again Yama does not have a trillion dead at his disposal and has not show any such thing on panel, I feel like a great deal of hyperbole present in anime is leading to some silly conclusions, Dooms demon legion will trump Yamas zombie army in my opinion.

It doesn't have to be, but he's a head captain that has dealt with countless enemies over the course of his millennium in that position. All you have to do is the match, and it's clear he'll have more than enough to deal with Doom's doombots.

Unless I am mistaken invis and spirit crush are generally off in these battles, otherwise soul crush becomes something of a no limits fallacy, even if you give him the spirit crush Doom deals with spiritual energy all the time, and again his force fields should protect him given some of the absurd durability feats he has shown.

You must be mistaken, because I've never heard of this. There is nothing indicating that his forcefields will protect him from this sort of attack, let alone from the head captain.

I'm not saying he could defeat Beyonder or Galactus if they took him seriously, they are durability feats that is all.

Unless we have something to measure those feats by, it really doesn't have much relevance here. They weren't giving him their full attention, so we can't measure what sort of power went behind their attacks.

It's not a city buster at all, show ten trillion dead on panel or it's hyperbole, also I'm seriously lol'ing if you think Doom is going to be shook by seeing his own dead followers, Dooms will is nearly unbreakable I can show feats of his enormous will power if need be.

I've already given you the ten trillion dead argument, but it still doesn't indicate that he wouldn't have enough zombies to attack him, considering he has summoned an army of them on panel and has clearly killed many throughout his millennium as head captain.

and show me something that would indicate that Doom would be unaffected by the death of his people. Doom has taken pride with his work in Latveria and would likely be thrown off by Yamamoto using the ashes of his people to fight against him.

Doom has too many outs that Yama has no good answer for, mental assault, energy drain, way better magick and an entire empire full of resources, Yama is a blunt instrument he is very good in a straight up head to head battle where there are no shenanigans at play, I've conceded he would likely win a random encounter but Doom has this even with the small amount of prep time at his disposal.

Yamamoto is actually very good at strategy. That was kind of the reason why I had to debunk the earlier arguments made against him about the prep. I don't see Doom winning this honestly. With more time, definitely.

And again Yama is not immune to his own flames, it would take time for his flames to get hot enough to be a problem for Doom and at the point where Dooms defenses could start to fail Yama would likely be right there with him and on the verge of disintegration, the best case scenario there is that both of them go out together but again I feel Doom will dispatch Yama before it becomes an issue.

Yamamoto is actually highly resistant to his flames though, and has shown a ton of durability to them(absorbing them without his zanpaktou for example). He was able to withstand the temperature of his own Bankai, which is the temperature of the sun and was bathed in the aura of them. He will go down to them after prolonged use, but he won't need half that time to deal with Doom and he can use the burns of his body as a catalyst for an attack of his own(Ittokaso).

#9 Edited by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@devil_driver said:

Ennetsu Jigoku is a city buster

No it isn't lol not even close it is used more to contain the battle than it is for purely destruction in any event, show it busting a city, we both know you can't.

Here is a gif of Ennetsu Jigoku as you can see the flames erupt from the ground and envelope Aizen and Yama he even stated that he sprung this as a trap, so Aizen could not escape. You do not see any buildings destroyed just the flames rising, it looks badass as all get out and of course being stuck within for too long would burn them both to bits, Yama is not immune to his own flames that is his ultimate weakness, he can unleash massive power but like fire itself this can only be sustained for so long before it becomes a danger to everything.

Umm, that little gif is only the start of the attack... Aizen had Wonderwiess absorb the flames and seal his zanpaktou before it could finish. After Yamamoto beat the crap out of Wonderwiess, the flames came bursting through him and would've destroyed the whole city and wiped away the barrier to the fake city, taking along the real kurakura town with it. So it's not only a city buster, it's a multi-city buster attack. Not to mention, Yamamoto was able to absorb these flames into his body to prevent it from killing anyone(proving his level of durability to the attack). Yamamoto demonstrated this technique again in the anime to destroy copies of three top Captains, and survived the completed portion.

#10 Posted by Storm Calling (3838 posts) - - Show Bio

@storm_calling: "He does not have to use bankai at the start of this fight. Ennetsu Jigoku is a city buster and is all he'll need to destroy Latveria. Yamamoto is over two millenniums old, and has been a head captain for over one of those millenniums. The 10 trillion dead was likely an exaggeration, but it still counts in his favor, considering it allows him to summon the corpses of anyone he's killed with his zanpaktou. He can destroy Latveria and use the bones of his people to get inside of his head as well. Doom does not have enough destractions to fool Yamamoto. He could make his own distractions to deal with Doom's."

That would be In Character for Yamamoto? I think that he will not even use his bankai above thousands of thousands of people.

If he finds Doom to be the threat that he is, and is technically at war with Latveria. then yes. If not, he sets up a barrier to trap Doom in a fake Latveria and does it there like he did to Aizen.