Storm Calling's forum posts

#1 Posted by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@roddy010@son_of_storm @thunderbolt30 @devilsgrin81 @spidey_jackson @storm_calling

tell me again how much you want Victor and Greg to give her back a full head of hair? Because this is SERIOUSLY delicious...............GO VICTOR IBANEZ!

Would absolutely love the return of the full head of hair, and that is exactly how I envisioned it. Her costume would still be awesome with a full head of hair.

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#2 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Toph should win. She was an incredibly powerful earthbender for her age, and while Katara was also very strong I don't feel like she's at the same range of power or precision as Toph.

As far as Katara exploiting the sight weakness, I don't see that working. Katara isn't the best acrobat and she never mastered the waterspout to give herself pseudo-flight. I'm sure Toph can feel the vibrations of the waves Katara might try to surf on as well, and as has been said Toph can react to bending attacks by predicting the attacks based on her opponent's movements. It's how she took out all the firebenders she's had to fight.

Also, Katara has been defeated by a much, much weaker earthbender.

Now I will give Katara this: She didn't have enough water to properly attack the general. However the fact remains that she didn't have the reaction time to escape being pulled into the ground. There's no reason Toph couldn't replicate this, only Toph won't feel inclined to do it slowly and dramatically. Once Katara is up to her shoulders in earth she's pretty much disabled as she cannot bend without her arms.

Fair points, but I think you're forgetting Katara can basically do the same thing(in this case). Paku did it during the siege of the northern water tribe to take out a group of firebenders, and another waterbender did it to take out a tank too.

Haven't decided who I think would win though.

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#3 Posted by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: No need for a pm, none of that is going to save them from a mind freeze or being atomized instantly.

Again I urge you to study the evidence you provided

There is nowhere in this scene where we see Goyle cast fiendfire. We see Ron chase after the three of them after Goyle tries to kill Hermione with the killing curse(which she was able to react to with a verbal charm to throw something into the way to counter it). We then see Ron running back to them after a blaze of fire has erupted(note, there was no spam of this spell, it simply grew out of his control and encased the library in flames). So we don't know if an incantation was used on his part to do it or not. Just because we don't see Voldermort do this(even without the aid of his wand) , doesn't mean we give Goyle the benefit of the doubt, especially considering he was incapable of vanquishing it after he cast it. By the time we see Goyle and the others, we see flames bursting out of his wand from the fiendfire and then we see him throw his wand to the ground. There was no spam or anyway of knowing how he was able to cast that spell. So what you're claiming is conjecture.

Voldermort's casting of the Fiendfire was a special technique that does not apply for the other methods that I pointed out. So it is a special case. He and Dumbledore were wand locked, which prevented him from using anything else from his wand. So he cast it from his mouth(very different than what is assumed with how Goyle conjured it) and surprised even Dumbledore with it. This is not a wand cast, so it makes sense why this would be one of the only powerful spells that a wizard would be able to perform without the aid of a wand or time to cast it. In either case, this spell didn't exactly hit at the speed of thought either. Dumbledore had time to react and throw it back at him. In which cast, Blink could do the same.

As for Dumbledore using the spell on Barty Crouch Junior, it was only because he had more time to cast it. He took Barty by surprise, who didn't suspect that Dumbledore knew of his plans at that point in time. Non verbal spells are easier to cast, which is probably why we see it used more often in a duel(but they seems to be much less powerful in effect). Dumbledore and Voldermort are just more skilled at distracting their opponents to build up for a bigger and better spell.

Storm's lightning is a one hit kill or KO. Moments before she blasted Callisto she took Quill and Arclight out with a single strike(and we never saw them again until the end of the film). Callisto was resistant to her lightning which surprised her in the first fight, but the second time she threw her against a fence and overloaded her with her lightning. None of the wizards here have shown any resistance to lightning. So I'm sure they will go down just like Quill and Arclight did.

The X-men have defenses. Magneto can form metal shields to counteract their spells, Iceman can form ice walls(which has been shown capable of withstanding explosions) to do the same, Kitty can phase herself and her teammates, Blink can create portals to redirect spells, Storm can maneuver around many of them with her flight, Wolverine can withstand alot of their spells(including drowning if you haven't seen DOFP) and the rest can rely on the defenses from the other characters to protect them. All of them don't need to have a defense for the wizards attacks when several other X-men can use their defensive powers to protect them instead.

This battle isn't just about defenses. Versatility isn't everything or a key to a victory, the X-men have a much higher offense than the wizards do and could cast apocalyptic attacks that would be very difficult for them to withstand or counter. None of the wizards in the hp series have been able to cast attacks as powerful as many of these X-men have. Let alone show that they are capable of defending against them.

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#4 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343:

(notice how the OP banned unforgivavble curses- the wizards are actually nerfed for this fight)

Not really, he limited Jean to X1 and Xavier to a support role. Either one of them would've made short work of all the wizards here. Even with the unforgivable curses.

I've also been reading the two of yours exchanges(pretty heated. lol), and I don't think you've countered most of what I've been saying. That said I'll let you two duke it out some more. :)

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#5 Posted by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: You need to restudy your gif. Clearly light is emitting from their wands, when they cast them and when it's blocked. Dumbledore and Voldermort's do the same in the video you provided to me. And they don't even hit near instantly, there is a sound delay. The only reason it appears near instantly in the gif you provided is because it's choppy and they're standing at near arm length from each other.

They don't have much of an advantage here with flight and teleportation. Xavier will be coordinating the X-men for surprise attacks, Magneto can throw shards of metals inside of their port fields(as Bellatrix demonstrated with Dobby) and Storm can easily blow them out of the sky with her winds. Shields can be blasted apart, but they can also be rebuilt and reinforced(Magneto beautifully demonstrated this in DOFP to defend the temple). It's not difficult for Magneto to take any stray piece of metal to defend himself(or others) or add to the one that's been blown apart, and it wouldn't be difficult for Storm to maneuver around alot of those spells either.

Another interesting thing someone pointed out was that Wizards can't attack while their defending, and seeing how Storm could fire off the quickest attack here(lightning), it would be pretty difficult for them to mount an offense when they are trying to defend themselves from lightning bolts, tornadoes and shards of metal from all directions, while at the same time fire off attacks that can get past all of the defenses the X-men have set up.

The video you provided showed powerful non verbal spells, but these were from the most powerful wizards in the whole HP verse. They were also pretty limited in the way they were executed as well. It took Dumbledore five seconds to conjure the water spell and a slew of wrist movements to execute it properly. Voldermort cast Fiendfire without his wand(Crabbe used his wand but we don't see how he actually cast the spell or if it was non verbal or not. Not to mention he killed himself in the process due to lack of experience), so I don't think these count in the spells that I placed into the category of "little effort" and "near instantly". The dark spell wasn't instant, and he needed that time to build up for another spell(the magical explosion) that wasn't instant either. The shards of glass spell that he used on Dumbledore took over twenty seconds to perform and took quite alot of effort. So as you can see, they don't really refute anything I said about what is required of them for the big ones. Dumbledore used a verbal charm(expelliarmus) on Barty Crouch Junior, so there is good indication that more powerful versions of it require verbal command.

The X-men have defenses for all of their spells(phasing should block any spell), and as I've address, there are ways some of the other X-men can turn their spells against them and put up an effort to defend themselves by dodging or hiding behind cover(which they are very accustomed to and are capable).

I am arguing in defense of the mutants because it feels like you're shorting changing them(a lot). I also haven't decided who would win yet because there are still alot of interesting points being brought up on both ends. I'm taking a more liberal approach to how this battle may play out.

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#6 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343 said:

Um... yeh look at how fast that spell you provided was, most of the spells we've seen have been invisible and hit near instantly, why would they use verbal command when 99% of the sells casted have been non verbal? The mutants will be alerted by wrists movement? Right. what can they do to stop the spells? Wizards practically have a counter for every attack and the mutants have a few. For the majority of seeing storm control the weather, she lifts up off the ground, spreads her arms and then a few moments later effects happen. Now tell me what will alert to an attack faster? wrist flicking or spreading arms, levitating and waiting a few moments? Yeh, exactly. Plus the wizards have prep and intel, they know who they're up against and are versatile enough to deal with it. The sheer amount of spells the mutants have to prep for is ridiculous.

That spell was fast but not instant, and just like Snape was able to flick his wand in time to counter it, Blink could have opened up a portal beside her to send it right back into her direction. The beams from the sentinels in the gif I provided to you(which was moving in slow motion I might add) moved even faster than Mcgonagall's attack, and Blink was able to counter several of theirs at the same time. Nearly all of the attacks from the wizards are straight forward(usually comes from their wand), and emits bright lights when they cast them. There's not really much to prep for aside from getting the portals, phasing, shields up in time before they cast their spell. I should also point out that many of their spells can be dodged.

Most of the spells we've seen have been non verbal? I don't think think so. And I also don't think the non verbal spells have been shown to be all that powerful anyway. At best it stuns the opponent for a few seconds. The more powerful ones require even more effort or even verbal commands. Both Dumbledore and Mcgonagall have been shown using verbal commands for their spells as well.

And as theatrical as Storm's powers are usually shown to be in the movies, X3 proved that it didn't really take time for her to summon a wind or a lightning bolt. The speed that her powers can activate were put to the test even against a speedster(which none of the HP characters are).

And again, wizards aren't accustomed to the way mutants manifest their powers. They can attack without moving or signaling. Storm summoned a slew of tornadoes in X2 with just the tilt of her head and Magneto took Wolverine by surprise pretty easily in DOFP.

No movement at all for the object that hit him from behind

So it will be difficult for them to know which way they plan to mount an offense. Storm and Magneto could use the same tactic that they used in DOFP by blowing up the jet in a super large radius.

I also don't think the wizards have an advantage with prep. The mutants used intel from the future for years to escape the sentinels which ultimately lead to them defeating them. So while I do think the wizards have an advantage, I also feel you're shortchanging the X-men on what they can do here against them.

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#7 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio
@leo-343 said:

What? Are you aware this is film versions? entire duels have been fought with literally just wands being pointed and spells coming out, dunno where you are getting spell chanting as a requirement. I've all ready sated Bishop getting paralyzed and other mutants being taken out. Not repeating myself again.

I am very aware that these are the film versions of the characters, but I don't think you understand how their spellcasting works. For one thing, I never claimed chanting was a requirement for "every" spell. My point was to address how wizards and witches in the HP verse are able to gain their experience in dueling. There are methods involved with how they cast their spells, and ALL of them(but are not limited to) requires one of more of the methods I pointed out; chanting, wrist movement, verbal command, potion brewing and/or talismans.

I don't think you studied the scene well enough that you provided in the gif. What they are casting here involves special movement of the wrist and technique. They can't just point and fire, that is only how it appears to people who don't understand what they're doing. If they could point and fire they wouldn't need to redraw their wands and signal for another shot to perform the spell. Clearly in the gif you provided, they are motioning their wrist to cast the spell. While that is pretty fast, it is still a method that can alert the opponent that you're about to attack(even with a specific spell depending on the wrist movement). Wizards rely on this to combat each other.

Mutants on the other hand aren't limited to these methods. Storm for example can psionically control the weather. So there is no need for her to perform wrist movements, chants, use verbal commands or any secondary methods in order to perform her attacks. So how would one know that she is about to fire a lightning bolt from behind them before they can counter or block the attack? The same applies to Jean and Magneto.

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#8 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@beingfatissupercool: I should also point out that many of the wizards spell(at least the quick attacks) can be blocked by physical objects. I've seen several wizards dodge a spell by ducking behind a wall(and having the wall absorb the spell instead). So Magneto should be able to form a scrap metal shield(much like in X3 to defend against the cure darts) in order to defend against some of their attacks. This would add another character to the fray that could defend against some of their attacks.

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#9 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343: Spell chanting isn't a requirement(for every spell) but it is apart of their system, and no, they can't just point and fire(I also said various other methods, which include vocal, wrist movement or some sort of trinket). Non verbal spell casting is very rare, and even in the cases where the Wizard or witch could perform it, it isn't something major.

The wizards are trained and experienced with fighting other wizards, not mutant powers. And they cannot replicate half of the mutants powers here(at least not of the same scope). These aren't spells, but physical mutations that are very powerful.

and it's debatable whether Bishop would get taken out with a stun spell, especially when other mutants can defend him from those attacks(as I've addressed).

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#10 Edited by Storm Calling (3613 posts) - - Show Bio

@leo-343:

Bishop CAN absorb fire

His mutation allows him to absorb any form of energy(much like Shaw in X-men First Class), so Bishop should be able to absorb Fiendfire. Blink can also turn the Fiendfire against Voldermort and force him to extinguish it instead(or be burnt to a crisp) just like Dumbledore did in their fight.

Flying on brooms is impractical in a duel and would otherwise leave the flyer vulnerable if one were to destroy the broom. Storm winds could knock over huge Sentinel carriers with relative ease and Magneto could make short work of them as well. Not to mention Blink could toss a portal in front of them and have them run into a wall or allow the other x-men to attack them from the ground.

Mutant powers are very different from magical spells. Spellcasting involves chanting and various other methods in order to perform them, while a mutant power manifest in many different forms and can be hard to defend in any number of ways. This is why the Sentinels had so much trouble with them despite the fact that they were well equipped and prepared for them.

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