SS_Ruprecht

In terms of storytelling, I think a lot of you are forgetting that DC comics doesn't just have iconic characters, it has iconic stories as well....Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, The Killing Joke, Year One, The Long Halloween, Batman: Hush...I mean, I'm sure Marvel has an amazing lineup of stories that could be pointed out, but in terms of pure storytelling, these are by far head and heels above anything that I've seen from Marvel (I mostly read Daredevil, Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Spiderman), and I'm sure you'll agree that most of what Marvel has in terms of comparable material, isn't as extensive.

For characters, a lot of Marvels characters aren't really that compelling. Okay, Daredevil and the Punisher are, but when I look at other characters like The Hulk, Spiderman, Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Fantastic Four, and even Wolverine, none of their origin stories are really as prominent/important to the characters as their actions/deeds are. It seems DC characters seem to focus more on where characters began and how that shapes their decisions, while Marvel focuses more on what characters do or are forced to do and how that shapes. I personally prefer DC's characters because of how they approach characters, and I really think that the way they approach them is far more compelling on a more human level, since we all can recreate someones actions through some means or force of will, but what makes each of us truly unique, is our origin, and how it has shaped us into who we are. DC's motto is that hero's are born, Marvels is that you become a hero. At least that's how I see it.

In a brawl, if we eliminate god-tier characters of mass omnipotence, I'm not sure. Marvel REALLY likes the unkillable types, whereas DC prefers to have the "so powerful they might as well be unkillable" (Even though flagship titular characters have "died" in the past, like Superman). I'd say that it's a draw here.

@wolverine08: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ LOL

Pathetic of you, right? I know.

How about you actually reply instead of make utterly useless/pointless posts that make you look like an ass?

@veshark: "claiming that I know nothing about him just because I disagree with your opinion seems like a rather silly thing to say"

So does saying "You know nothing about Black Panther" as a rebuttal.

"Ra's al Ghul did"

And? Batman's defeated Ra's al Ghul in the past, are you somehow insinuating that he wouldn't of been able to? Do you realize how ridiculous and nonsensical that sounds? If Ra's al Ghul decided to steal Batman's plans for taking out the Justice League instead of devising his own plans, doesn't that hint in the tiniest bit towards Batman being superior? I'll answer that for you, yes it does, and yes he is, BTW, Batman also killed Ra's al Ghul. And he wouldn't of taken the Justice League all out at once in an immediate fight, Batman's most difficult fights have always been resolved over long periods of time in which he'd allowed himself preparation, as he would if he met Black Panther who happened to be evil for some reason or another. Also, New 52 is a reboot, so I have no idea why you're even mentioning it.

"The reason why Panther's vibranium suit is so durable isn't because it's 'indestructible' - it's because it absorbs momentum and vibration"

I already stated this. There's more things you can do with metal than punch it. For one, you can blow it up, which appears to be one of its weaknesses. And guess what, Batman has explosive batarangs, as well as plastic explosives.

"'Batman can beat the entire JLA, who can beat Panther, therefore Batman can beat Panther' is an inherently flawed argument"

How is it flawed. Tell me what flaw is keeping that argument from being logically sound.

"Batman has never actually beaten the JLA even once"

Excluding the fact that the plans designed by Batman worked when an inferior villain to him took them and executed them, he has gone toe to toe with every member in the Justice League individually and, not killed them, but has gotten the better of them. The villain equivalent to Batman would be Deathstroke, who Batman regularly fights with, and who has taken out Justice League members in the past, such as The Flash.

"And if you want to talk contingency plans, Panther has Galactus contingency plans."

Batmans gone toe to toe with Darkseid who is arguably an equivalent to Galactus, and gotten the better of him.

"You’re forgetting that T’Challa happens to be a genius"

So is Batman....And Superman. In fact, Superman possesses intellect that's considered beyond genius level, but they keep Batman on as the primary strategist and tactician of the Justice League, so that means in essence that Batman is more tactically/strategically sound than a man who is beyond genius level intellect. Over the years, Batman has accumulated a god-like strategic level of thought with no other character in any comic book coming to claim such a mythological mastermind status as him, except maybe for Brainiac. Why? He outsmarts every single villain he faces. This is not a fact mind you, just an observation. It is stated several times by multiple characters in the DCU though that Batman has one of the highest levels of intellect.

"We’re talking someone whom – with prep time – has taken down the likes of Magneto, Mephisto, Dr. Doom, and a Stealth Iron Man"

And with Batman we have Bane, Darkseid (in the words of a rather humorous Cracked article that references Batman killing Darkseid 'Batman dueled god, and god was a little too slow'"), Riddler, Clayface, Deathstroke, Solomon Grundy, Ra's Al Ghul, Bat-mite (Batman's version of Mister Mxyzptlk, who is considered god/omniscient tier), Superman (Dark Knight Returns), the entirety of the Legion of Doom (bribed one of them to betray the rest), Owlman (Essentially defeating himself, showing that he is, indeed, better than even himself), I believe I also recall him defeating Captain America (but I'm sure a bunch of Marvel fanboys will come running to yell NON-CANON! at that, and me, and while we're on the subject, he also beat Jackie Estacado from The Darkness), and actually, he DID canonically defeat Spawn, since it was referenced in spawns OWN continuity in his OWN comics. Sorry, but it appears Batman's list is far more impressive, and I haven't even listed all the top-tiers he's taken down.

P.S. Ever since Squirrel Girl defeated Dr. Doom, he's been thought of as a pathetic pushover.

"Panther comes with intangible energy daggers"

You know who else has "intangibility"? Martian Manhunter, you know what happened to him? Batman beat him, I'm a fan of MM and I can even admit that.

"His anti-metal claws will tear through any metal tech that Bats has"

Yea, his claws are just that "anti-metal", not "anti-matter", most body armor is made of synthetic components anyway by the way, and if I'm reading up on it correctly, then it does this "This variation produces vibrations of a specific wavelength that breaks down the molecular bonds in other metals". And since his batsuit isn't made of metal, I'm beginning to wonder how effective his claws would even be.

"The only version of the character that kills is Golden Age Batman"

Except for, you know, the new version that killed Darkseid with a bullet filled with Radion.

"which means that BP has an edge because Panther will be more willing to use lethal force."

Batman doesn't kill, unless he does. That's pretty much how it's gone for the entirety of his existence and really only became an "iconic" aspect of his willpower in more recent years.

"And whose suit comes with a force-field, cloaking, teleportation, and knives that can pierce a Galactus Herald."

And Batman has Watchtower.

"BP is useless without his vibranium, Batman is the best"

Don't be so immature. Batman is the best at what he does in the DC universe, Black Panther isn't. That's just a matter of facts. Batman and Black Panther have never gone toe to toe, I don't think, so there's no conceivable way to rationalize which would be better when matching them up against each other, besides using subjective means, which I've presented, through logical deduction.

"especially with prep time, but yours most certainly isn’t it"

The only reason you say mine most certainly isn't is because you don't like the fact that it applies deductive logic. The only thing you're willing to throw at me, are the exact same reasons I've been saying Batman can win, feats, villains, and abilities. You're just saying "yours isn't it" because I'm not circumventing Batmans wins, I'm not going to lie by saying I know what Batman would come up with to beat Black Panther because I honestly don't know, what he would come up with, but then again, I'm also not a comic-book writer who's making a comic between the two fighting, so I can't make up cheese for why either would beat the other. Quit throwing a tantrum at the facts I present and accept them for what they are, if you actually read what I posted, I said "that is why I do not believe that Batman would lose", just like everyone else here, I'm explaining my opinion, if you're not mature enough to accept that then that's your problem, since I've supported and presented everything I need to, as accurately as needed, to support my decision.

Everything I've stated thus far has been correct when applied to the direct context it was mentioned in. If you extrapolate upon it, bringing up "other" varieties of vibranium (like you did) does my argument at all falter, but not because of any inaccuracies of my own. Think about what you're writing, the majority of what you said wasn't even logically sound, most of which is widely-known, common knowledge of Batman, whom you state you know "very well". It seems that the only argument here that isn't a "good" argument is yours.

@wolverine08: Oh look, a child who's incapable of formulating any type of legitimate thought against anything I said so you call me a troll. Grow up will you, it's embarrassing for me to having to respond to such inadequate comments.

"Which issues of Black Panther have you read? And yes it does matter because everything you just mentioned is entirely circumstantial."

Every fight in every comic is "circumstantial" so that hardly disproves anything I said anyway.

It seems people who are fans of Black Panther aren't willing to acknowledge the facts and will simply ignore them in favor of "HUR DUR, SUIT".

For the record, I'm more a fan of The Flash and Martian Manhunter than any other DC characters.

@veshark: Likewise, you know absolutely nothing about Batman. Though, I DO know that if Batman is capable of putting down the Justice League, which are all head and heals above Black Panther in every respect, then Batman is ALSO capable, in fact, more capable than them in putting Black Panther down like a small kitty cat.

First of all, let me address the gigantic gaping plothole of vibranium. Based on physics, anything that can be forged, is not indestructible. Captain America's shield was FORGED into that using vibranium, meaning they had to melt it down or shape it some other way into its current form, meaning that it is subject to destructibility and thus, is NOT indestructible in the literal sense. It even states that it simply absorbs kinetic energy and is not some super type of adamantium (which even THAT is destructible since again, it was liquidized and and injected into Wolverine).

SECONDLY, Vibranium is NOT a perfect metal with absolutely no imperfections, anyone familiar with Captain America will know that his Vibranium shield developed a type of cancer that eventually broke itself down due to an imperfection in its forging.

THIRDLY, going back to my original claim of all the Justice League (The original members that is) being able to put down Black Panther with ease.

Superman: Obvious is obvious. He does what he does best and punts him into space where Black Panther continues to die and does absolutely nothing with his vibranium. Or, he simply uses his suit against him, crushing his suit in him and thus turning him into a can of cat food. Either way this is an utterly relentless stomp by Superman with no foreseeable way for Black Panther to win unless Superman loses ALL of his powers.

Wonder Woman: She has an unbreakable rope that, if she gets around Black Panther, he's a gonner, and since she has access to ancient magical weaponry, his gear is almost useless. In fact, much like Supes, it's almost an utterly relentless stomp. Wonderwoman has fought literal gods and come out superior.

The Flash: Seeing as his speed is hundreds of thousands if not millions of times that of Black Panthers, Flash simply dodges every single attack until BP is tired and then beats him into a pulp, or uses his infinite mass punch to obliterate any exposed or vulnerable part of BP, and judging from the comics, that would be his chin.

Green Lantern: Almost an utterly relentless stomp as before, since BP's vibranium would do absolutely nothing against materials based on metaphysical characteristics. Not going to bring up Parallax form because I want to at least give BP a chance.

Aquaman: Aquaman summons Cthulhu to kill Black Panther for him. Don't believe it? http://i.imgur.com/rTpVj.jpg Believe it. So with the power of horrors beyond the cosmic horizon behind him, Aquaman stomps this one out of the park as well.

Martian Manhunter: Does this one even need mentioning? The only man in the Justice League that Superman stated was superior to himself? And with his weakness now being grounded to only magical/psychokinetic fire, it's one of the most one-sided stomps this side of Squirrel Girl vs. Superman Prime.

With all of those characters taken into consideration, and Batman still coming out the better in tried and true scenarios, that is why I do not believe that Batman would lose.

As much as I'd like to say that Batman loses, Batman has fought tougher opponents than Black Panther and won. This is a no-brainer for Batman.

The only reason that people say that Black Panther would win is because of his suit. That "super-cheese" is essentially to Black Panther, as the Yellow Sun is to Superman. In fact, Bane could take out Black Panther, who is arguably as intelligent, or even more intelligent, than Batman, WHO BATMAN WAS STILL ABLE TO DEFEAT, even though Bane was more or AS intelligent, more durable, stronger, and faster. Bane also has a healing factor mind you.

I see where people are coming from, saying that Black Panther would win, though again, primarily only because of his suit, but you can't honestly say that it would be a stomp, or even an easy win. When Batman has gone toe to toe with almost everyone in the DCU and come out the better, and Black Panther is a mediocre joke at best in the Marvel universe, in terms of feats AND writing, you can't honestly say that he'll win over Batman. And please don't try and bring "realism" into this, that just as laughable as saying "Black Panther vs Catwoman".

With or without prep time, Batman would win. Batman would see that Black Panther has the immediate victory and use his skills to overcome him later on, just as he's done with every single villain who is superhuman, which he then goes on to defeat. Black Panther super-cheese is the only real reason he would win any fight he's put into, take his vibranium away and he's nothing more than a glorified street fighter. Take Batmans suit away and you still have just as dangerous of a person as before. And for anyone saying "yea, but Batman doesn't kill, so the edge goes to Black Panther", well, guess what, since you're using past versions of Black Panther, so am I, and in past versions of Batman comics, Batman straight up shoots people and kicks their necks in, snapping them. He's even killed the KGBeast. Batmans resources are also virtually limitless when you take the Watchtower into consideration.

Not a stomp, obviously, but I give the win to Batman for reasons mentioned above. Fighting prowess means little when you're dealing with someone who's out-riddled the riddler, out-strengthed the strongest, and out-bested the best.

Batman doesn't lose, he overcomes.

If worst comes to worst, he devises a Batman gambit to rely on Black Panther losing by simply being Black Panther.

Spiderman would steam roll Batman? BAHAHAHAHA, oh god, thanks for that laugh kid! Batmans gone toe to toe with Superman and only come out with superficial injuries. Given prep time, Batman would rofl-stomp Spiderman into the next millenium, without prep time, it would be more fair, but the edge still goes to Batman for being a better tactician and better at discovering the tactics/strategies/weakpoints of his targets and exploiting them.

Crossovers are non-canon? Ok, there's still plenty of evidence from my previous posts to support my reasoning, more than enough. "Spider-man's higher end strength" Why is strength all of a sudden the determining factor when The Punisher has been able to go toe-to-toe with spiderman:

http://musiczeitgeist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/spiderman_punisher.jpg

Furthermore, spiderman has also been shot by The Punisher:

http://www.4thletter.net/whatif/frankshotweb.jpg

And quite frankly, I've never seen a Predator lose in hand-to-hand against a human, in fact, Predator's have generally always lost fights when either:

A) Humans using the Predators own tech against him (Predator 2, Danny Glover is only able to kill it by shoving it's Smart Disc through it's chest, but this is all after the Predator had it's arm chopped off, after getting shot around 3-4 times straight in the stomach with a 12 gauge shotgun, having been blasted with cryogenic gasses, and falling through a brick/cinder building)

B) Unexpectedly triggering a trap or having a trap triggered on them (Predator 1, where Arnold drops what appears to be a 1.5 ton (I did the calculations) log ontop of the unsuspecting predator's head, which only managed to disable it and not actually kill it, where it was able to activate its nuclear self-destruct device)

Spiderman though? He gets his shit kicked all the time by simple peak-strength humans. Predator would laugh off blows from Daredevil, would yawn at punches from the Punisher, and would get annoyed by kicks from Captain America. The fact that Spiderman has trouble fighting all of them just shows that a punch from a predator would be at least 3 to 4 times as devastating as their (Peak human condition punches, relative to Arnold's) punches.

The predator also isn't some half-wit, it managed to basically outsmart and adapt to a squad of the toughest, most elite special forces the US military had to offer in only the first movie. In the extended universe, in the comics, they are shown taking down USMC vehicles and buildings, disabling them with punches through their metal exteriors. A predator like Wolf from AVP:R would have no problem with Spiderman, who was able to punch a hole 10 feet long and 5 feet wide through solid concrete and a road with his power fist.

And because of the Predators nature of using invisibility, he would be monitoring Spiderman from a distance before engaging, meaning no threat = no spider sense activation, which gives him the edge of ambushes/traps/surprises ALWAYS, since Predators rarely travel during a hunt without it activated, unless they know they aren't being watched. Hell, even the Predator in Predator 1 didn't have it's camo de-activated when it thought it was alone and not being watched by Mac and Dylon.

Quit using "hur dur super spidey strength" and "spidey sense" as scape-goats for why he would seemingly "instantly" win, both his strength and his spider sense have failed him and vary greatly, for Predators, they also vary but with reason, as in, THEY AREN'T ALL THE SAME F***ING CHARACTER.

"Spider-man's been beaten by Daredevil only when his anger was making him sloppy, and Daredevil had to pummel him dozens of times to barely putt him out."

Would only take a predator about 10 shots to put out spidey, if they're capable of battling on-par with Supes:

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/book-covers/1551_400x600.jpg

"When a person with spider powers punched him, Peter had to roll with the punch to keep the guy from breaking his hand."

Predator has punched Supes and suffered no structural injuries at all *yawns*:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30760/2231763-supermanvspredator3_35.jpg

"The Predator isn't going to be landing any significant blows on Spider-man. A normal human, with normal reflexes was able to fight evenly in a sword battle with a Predator. Those blows will be moving in slow motion to Spider-man."

A PREDATOR, not THE Predator. You keep assuming the Predator is a single entity when they are race. So a person with a Katana killed a Predator? Ok, had that been a different predator, the sword fight wouldn't of happened at all:

http://cdn.bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/batpred.jpg

First battle with a Predator in Batman vs Predator by Dark Horse Comics and DC. Predator let him live and Batman, with prep time, was only then able to defeat the Predator. Their first fight, a Predator beat a man who was capable of beating leagues of assassins, the worlds best hitmen, and one of the most intelligent tacticians in the DC Universe.

Things aren't looking well for ol spidey.

"Spider-man was able to easily punch through a steel bank vault door that was much larger than the one in your clip. He did it with one punch. There is also no evidence that those doors require that much force to tear through."

And yet he's struggled to hold back a crumbling wall. And no evidence that those metals require that much force to tear through? It's basic physics kid, if you don't want to accept it, well, sorry, you're just not abiding by logic and your entire argument is forfeit.

Um, what? Just because with one arm he lifts a 250 lb man that doesn't instantly mean he can lift maximum 500 lb's, I usually lift around 15-20 lb weights with one arm, but I regularly exercise by benching around 90. You clearly have no idea how musculature works.

" there's got to be feats to put him on a certain strength level" Read the comics, or at least the wiki:

"Their bodies are resilient to damage, capable of recovering from multiple gunshot wounds with minimal or even no medical attention and surviving radiation doses which would be fatal to humans.They are incredibly strong, easily capable of outmatching a conditioned adult human male in unarmed comb^at and able to land blows that can shatter solid concrete" (SHATTER solid concrete, so Spiderman isn't going to be simply "pummeling" any predator to death here...In fact, Spiderman's been kicked around by Daredevil, the Predator received a full-force blow to the face from Arnold that didn't even phase him)

"Predators have been seen to jump up to three times their own height, and are capable of falling up to ten times their height and landing safely on their feet"

- http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Yautja_%28Predator%29#Biology

The comics even go further with these feats. As for intelligence, he is not capable of being more intelligent than intergalactic alien travellers that have mastered space-flight and gravity drives.

"Spider-sense and superhuman agility would buy him enough time to learn of Pred's methods and gadgets" - Sorry, but a couple minutes of fighting isn't going to instantly grant him infinite knowledge on the subject, in that case, Batman would beat every single character ever created since he's a far superior tactician and detective than Peter Parker and even Superman.

Any hits the Predator lands on Peter would be devastating, especially if it's a wristblade hit or a hit from the Predators activated gauntlet (single hit from that and you have spiderman in a thousand different chunks all over the pavement).

Again, you mention strength at the end. You've clearly NEVER seen any of the Predator films except for the first one. The Predator has been shown kicking in metal hospital entrance doors in AVP:R, he's been showing tossing people 15 feet across the ground, around 8 feet into the air in PREDATORS, and he's been showing getting blasted with a shotgun, having his arm chopped off, and getting pummeled in the face repeatedly with metallic objects and blasted with cryogenic gasses, all within the same movie, and surviving ALL of that till the end. Furthermore, there is also a bit in AVP:R where a Predator gets side-swiped by an Alien and falls a couple stories down an elevator shaft, and is later found to be completely unphased and is in relatively perfect shape afterward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u8vZwvP57Y

1:30 - 1:40 Clips shown of a Predator breaking through their OWN technologically enhanced metallic doors. To put things into perspective for you:

• Aluminum is can be bent at 1 ton
• Stainless at 50 ton
• Mild Steel at 100 tons
• Carbon Steel can be bent at 150 tons

Those are the forces required to bend those substances, if they are .25 - .50 inches thick. That door in the film was around 2 inches thick. You have a monster capable of dealing blows that are capable of warping at least Carbon Level steel, you have several ton punches coming at you, with enough force to punch a hole through a mans chest and shatter every single bone that it comes into contact with, into dust.

Don't think it would be so easy. Schwarzaneggar won simply because he had the drop on the Predator (IE, Predator didn't even see the trap coming), physically and intelligence wise, he was one step ahead of Arnold almost the entire fight and beat the living hell out of him (Mr. Olympia himself) without even trying. Agility? The predator is capable of coming in, killing a US commando within a mere couple seconds, and escaping with the body in hand, into the trees, without any web-slinging abilities, just as quickly. Predator is at least Daredevil level in agility. Strength? As I mentioned in the post above, if an average predator (the predator in PREDATOR was even unblooded, meaning he wasn't even really a REGULAR predator) is capable of lifting a 250 lb man, without effort, for close to a minute, with one arm, he at least comes CLOSE to spiderman level strength so it is hardly "by far".

Predator has the tech, the intelligence, and the skill to back himself comfortably (professional, intergalactic hunters, of which an unblooded youngster was shown capable of killing 6-7 of some of the most highly trained US spec ops forces of the day, quite easily for the most part, going unchallenged throughout the films entirety until fighting Dutch 1 on 1 at the end, after he'd figured out the predator (which took an accumulation of around 2 days, mind you)). Spiderman would not nearly have the cleverness to figure out an alien beings inner workings and gadgetry within the few moments of meeting it. He wouldn't know what it's mask does, he wouldn't know what his shoulder cannon does, he certainly wouldn't know what their strength is, and above all, he would've know about their stealth technology. All of which, would give the predator the unbelievable advantage for the first fight, easily coming down to Peter simply being totally caught both off-guard, surprised, and disoriented by the Predators Technology.

Predators Tech:

-Near unbreakable net (capable of only ever being broken from molecular acid that is capable of dissolving flesh and future space metal alike, in mere seconds) shot from a Net Launcher, which then winds up, pulling the netting closer together and bleeding the prey

-Laser trip wires capable of slicing through xenomorph exoskeletons in mere nanoseconds

-Wristblades capable of cutting tearing through Subway train-car metal with ease

-Throwable explosives (in the form of mines), which can be set for nearby movement, or direct impact

-Shurikens, capable of cutting through ancient, hardened stone alien structures

-Shoulder mounted, laser guided, plasma caster

-Extendable Spear, capable of being thrown with unnerving accuracy and easily piercing through iron/steel

-Auto-guided Smart Disc, capable of cleaving through flesh and metal like butter, then returning to it's owners hands (So even if Spiderman senses it, it's still going to follow him as he dodges it)

-Segmented Whip, capable of wrapping around and clinging to targets, and if pulled taut, it cuts them in half

-Gauntlet Plasma Bolt, which fires a rocket capable of serious or fatal injury, though can only be used once

-Plasma Grenade, capable of blowing up a US Armored Personnel Carrier, leaving few traces behind

-Plasma Cannon, capable of dissolving matter in huge bursts of molten plasma, a variation of the Plasma caster, this being a handheld version

-Power Glove, "Predator's gauntlet to connect with "brass knuckles" worn on the hand. A strength enhancing gauntlet which releases some form of kinetic energy with explosive force on impact. Used as a means of demolishing objects such as concrete from all directions"

-Depending on the predator, different armor types will be used (or not used): http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Body_Armor_%28Predator%29

-And finally, the Spear gun (heres a link, too tired to type the rest): http://avp.wikia.com/wiki/Spear_Gun

The predator is FAAAR from being outclassed, and depending on the setup, could easily take out Spiderman, depending on the environment, gear, and length of the fight. I'll give this one to the Predator though because, as I've stated, every advantage except for strength goes to Predator for a first fight.