What Marvel cross-over event made the biggest lasting impact?

Secret Invasion killed Wasp, caused Dark Reign and reminded us how much of a jerk Hank Pym can be (among other things). Civil War divided the superhero community and damaged the world's opinion of superheroes to an extent that is still being seen. Mind you, those are only some of the things the latter events did to change Earth-616, but my point is that they made a significant impact. These were events that made lasting change and involved characters from many different titles. They're big turning points in Marvel history.

But events like Fear Itself, Shadowland and World War Hulk proved to be less earth-shattering. They changed very little, or most of the change that they made didn't last long enough to matter.

These events are all pretty recent, too; being a relative newcomer to the world of comics, I'm somewhat unfamiliar with older events that don't include the X-men. I know that events the Phoenix Saga changed Marvel significantly, but that's almost exclusively an X-men event.

So what event made the most impact?

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Edited by Baron_BJ

I'd say "Marvel Super Hero Secret Wars", it introduced the Spider-Man's black suit which subsequently turned into Venom and it introduced the villains of Volcana and Titania.

Those are the changes the series did that have been permanent that I remember off the top of my head, there were a fair few big changes for the time (like the Thing deciding to take some time to explore battleworld because it gave him the ability to turn human and she-hulk replacing him for that short period) and I'm sure I'm forgetting some other permanent changes, but yeah, the first full on Marvel "Event Comic" and I'd say one of the best.

Posted by Squares

@Baron_BJ: I didn't know Secret Wars had made that much of an impact. Sounds like it ended up making more lasting changes than the events I mentioned.

Posted by cattlebattle

Secret Wars 2  
Acts of Vengance

Posted by CATPANEXE

Maybe the Onslaught? The effects are still going on todate. Larger effects were the formation of the Thunderbolts and the introduction of Bastion and the Prime Sentinels. Actually, it's probably not " the " most, but it certainly comes to mind for lasting. Sadly most of the Doom related effects seem to have been retconned to a degree.

Posted by John Valentine

House of M. PERIOD.

Posted by Daycrawler

@John Valentine said:

House of M. PERIOD.

Yup, got to agree.

Posted by ReVamp

Civil War. It impacted nearly a decade of content.

@John Valentine said:

House of M. PERIOD.

Yes, I have to say that's a good one too, but it impacted only the X-Men.

Posted by Sir_Deadpool

@John Valentine said:

House of M. PERIOD.

That is what i think, too. Introduced new Mutants after the event (Idie or Hope for example). Also new ongoings like Generation Hope. The world of the x-men changes a lot. Also in current events they still talk about things that happened in the House of M storyline!

Edited by John Valentine

@ReVamp said:

Civil War. It impacted nearly a decade of content.

@John Valentine said:

House of M. PERIOD.

Yes, I have to say that's a good one too, but it impacted only the X-Men.

Got to disagree with Civil War, I'm afraid. Its effects were over in less than two years (at the end of Secret Invasion).

House of M, on the other Hand, has it's fallout felt five and a bit years later, with immediate effects affecting the Avengers too (Collective), shaping not only the face of the 616 Universe, but also multiple alternate realities. Arguably the depowering of so many thousands of mutants in part led to the Civil War.

Posted by biggkeem89

@ReVamp said:

Civil War. It impacted nearly a decade of content.

@John Valentine said:

House of M. PERIOD.

Yes, I have to say that's a good one too, but it impacted only the X-Men.

House of M impacted all of Marvel Earth, as well as multiversal implications. The complete reworking of so many superhero's lives definitely helped set up for the Civil War, Secret Invasion, Dark Reign, etc. The depowering of thousands of mutants changed the shape and motivations of all of Marvel Earth, especially since it put mutants on the endangered species list. Also, the Chaos Wave from Scarlet Witch rippled across the multiverse shaping multiple realities. Its definitely had the most impact.

Posted by ReVamp

@John Valentine said:

Got to disagree with Civil War, I'm afraid. Its effects were over in less than two years (at the end of Secret Invasion)

House of M, on the other Hand, has it's fallout felt five and a bit years later, with immediate effects affecting the Avengers too (Collective).

While HoM is in fact superior [you are right], Civil War led to Iron Man fighting against Captain America, in which he gained his postion as head of Shield, which directly allowed for Norman to gain the position right after which led into Dark Reign.

Posted by Daycrawler

@ReVamp said:

@John Valentine said:

Got to disagree with Civil War, I'm afraid. Its effects were over in less than two years (at the end of Secret Invasion)

House of M, on the other Hand, has it's fallout felt five and a bit years later, with immediate effects affecting the Avengers too (Collective).

While HoM is in fact superior [you are right], Civil War led to Iron Man fighting against Captain America, in which he gained his postion as head of Shield, which directly allowed for Norman to gain the position right after which led into Dark Reign.

Yeah, but that only had ramifications for America in the MU. House of M had world-wide fallout as well as multi-dimensional fallout. Also, Civil Wars after effects were largely resolved by the Heroic Age.

Posted by ReVamp

@Daycrawler: Did you purposefully ignore the first thing I wrote?

Posted by InnerVenom123

It has to be the original Secret War and Civil War.

Secret War introduced the black costume, and we all know what that lead to.

Civil War also had a lasting impact, until the implications were basically retconned out of existance.

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Posted by Squares

@CATPANEXE: I was tempted to mention Onslaught as one of the more influential events, but I'm kind of unsure if it's effects lasted that long.

@John Valentine: Yeah, but you'll notice how most of the mutant characters that are actually involved in a team came out okay. Most of what we saw was a thinning of the herd of minor and background characters.

@ReVamp said:

@John Valentine said:

Got to disagree with Civil War, I'm afraid. Its effects were over in less than two years (at the end of Secret Invasion)

House of M, on the other Hand, has it's fallout felt five and a bit years later, with immediate effects affecting the Avengers too (Collective).

While HoM is in fact superior [you are right], Civil War led to Iron Man fighting against Captain America, in which he gained his postion as head of Shield, which directly allowed for Norman to gain the position right after which led into Dark Reign.

Good point.

Posted by Daycrawler

@ReVamp said:

@Daycrawler: Did you purposefully ignore the first thing I wrote?

What, that Civil War impacted a decade of content and HoM impacted only the X-Men? Not sure I follow what you're getting at? You think Civil War had more impact whereas I think it was HoM. Sorry if being a bit dense - I usually get to these things after too much coffee which tends to impair my concentration.

Posted by ReVamp

@Daycrawler said:

@ReVamp said:

@Daycrawler: Did you purposefully ignore the first thing I wrote?

What, that Civil War impacted a decade of content and HoM impacted only the X-Men? Not sure I follow what you're getting at? You think Civil War had more impact whereas I think it was HoM. Sorry if being a bit dense - I usually get to these things after too much coffee which tends to impair my concentration.

The part where I mentioned that HoM was indeed superior to Civil War.

Posted by Omega Ray Jay

This 'Avengers V.s X-men' twaddle will likely be just another storm in a tea cup no doubt.

Posted by Gambit1024

@Squares: Hank Pym wasn't even there for Secret Invasion. He was replaced by a skrull soon after Avengers: Disassembled.

Posted by Daycrawler

@ReVamp said:

@Daycrawler said:

@ReVamp said:

@Daycrawler: Did you purposefully ignore the first thing I wrote?

What, that Civil War impacted a decade of content and HoM impacted only the X-Men? Not sure I follow what you're getting at? You think Civil War had more impact whereas I think it was HoM. Sorry if being a bit dense - I usually get to these things after too much coffee which tends to impair my concentration.

The part where I mentioned that HoM was indeed superior to Civil War.

Yeah, I got that. My comment wasn't about that bit. It was in response to you saying that HoM had a lesser impact than Civil War in the MU. So yeah I did ignore it cos it wasn't what I was responding too.

Anyways, it's all just a bit of confusion! Have to say I really liked Civil War and HoM. Can't decide which one I prefer. Lot of people say that the registration act was just a rip off of the mutant registration act, but I saw it as a logical extension - why would the government just stop at mutants?

Edited by Squares

@Gambit1024 said:

@Squares: Hank Pym wasn't even there for Secret Invasion. He was replaced by a skrull soon after Avengers: Disassembled.

Very true! But the Skrull's job was to behave how the real Hank Pym would behave while still acheiving specific goals.

@Omega Ray Jay said:

This 'Avengers V.s X-men' twaddle will likely be just another storm in a tea cup no doubt.

Considering how little they've advertised it, it could go either way, really.

Posted by ReVamp

@Daycrawler said:

Yeah, I got that. My comment wasn't about that bit. It was in response to you saying that HoM had a lesser impact than Civil War in the MU. So yeah I did ignore it cos it wasn't what I was responding too.

Anyways, it's all just a bit of confusion! Have to say I really liked Civil War and HoM. Can't decide which one I prefer. Lot of people say that the registration act was just a rip off of the mutant registration act, but I saw it as a logical extension - why would the government just stop at mutants?

Allow me to clarify. That first bit I was talking about said that I acknowledged that HoM had a greater impact that Civil War in the MU. Yet you ignored it and continue to try and respond to the comment I wrote before.

Posted by Squares

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

Posted by GrandSymbiote94

Come to think of it Marvel events are pretty pointless. After the Dark Reign SHRA Became meaningless. House of M is going to be meaningless if Scarlet Witch is actually going to repower the mutants. OMD became meaningless after Spider-Island. I swear Marvel makes a new event and then another one to completely make the event before that meaningless.

Posted by ReVamp

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

I never did. I specifically pointed it out though, and he still didn't get it. I never assumed he's doing it on purpose. I'm partially offended to see you'd think that.

Posted by Daycrawler

@ReVamp said:

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

I never did. I specifically pointed it out though, and he still didn't get it. I never assumed he's doing it on purpose. I'm partially offended to see you'd think that.

Didn't mean to start a whole hoo-ha, with my comments, honest! I've just interpreted things wrongly. Apologies for any unintended offence.

Anyway, regardless of which event was superior or had the longest lasting impact, I think that Marvels events have been getting worse each year with Fear Itself being a complete waste of time. I reeeeaaallly hoping that AvX is a return to form. Certainly think it has the potential to be great. Mind you, it could end up being a meaningless punch up. I see AvX a potentially the culmination of HoM seeing that both Hope and Scarlet Witch are involved.

Posted by ReVamp

@Daycrawler said:

@ReVamp said:

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

I never did. I specifically pointed it out though, and he still didn't get it. I never assumed he's doing it on purpose. I'm partially offended to see you'd think that.

Didn't mean to start a whole hoo-ha, with my comments, honest! I've just interpreted things wrongly. Apologies for any unintended offence.

Anyway, regardless of which event was superior or had the longest lasting impact, I think that Marvels events have been getting worse each year with Fear Itself being a complete waste of time. I reeeeaaallly hoping that AvX is a return to form. Certainly think it has the potential to be great. Mind you, it could end up being a meaningless punch up. I see AvX a potentially the culmination of HoM seeing that both Hope and Scarlet Witch are involved.

Yeah, I'm sorry if I offended or seemed rude. My point is:

  1. I said I thought Civil War affected the MU more.
  2. I took it back and said HoM affected it more.
Posted by Daycrawler

@ReVamp said:

@Daycrawler said:

@ReVamp said:

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

I never did. I specifically pointed it out though, and he still didn't get it. I never assumed he's doing it on purpose. I'm partially offended to see you'd think that.

Didn't mean to start a whole hoo-ha, with my comments, honest! I've just interpreted things wrongly. Apologies for any unintended offence.

Anyway, regardless of which event was superior or had the longest lasting impact, I think that Marvels events have been getting worse each year with Fear Itself being a complete waste of time. I reeeeaaallly hoping that AvX is a return to form. Certainly think it has the potential to be great. Mind you, it could end up being a meaningless punch up. I see AvX a potentially the culmination of HoM seeing that both Hope and Scarlet Witch are involved.

Yeah, I'm sorry if I offended or seemed rude. My point is:

  1. I said I thought Civil War affected the MU more.
  2. I took it back and said HoM affected it more.

Ah, no worries. I tend to reply to things late at night and need to pay more attention. Understand now! :)

Posted by Squares

@GrandSymbiote94:Events are created to be...well, events; part of the larger and continuing story that is the Marvel universe. Their purpose is not to change things, it's to tell a story, one which may or may not continue to effect future events.

@ReVamp said:

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: You know, he may just have not seen your comment, or not read all of the comments at the time. No need to assume malicious intent.

I never did. I specifically pointed it out though, and he still didn't get it. I never assumed he's doing it on purpose. I'm partially offended to see you'd think that.

It was your phrasing. You used 'ignore', which is accusatory, versus something like 'missed', which isn't.

Posted by ReVamp

@Squares said:

It was your phrasing. You used 'ignore', which is accusatory, versus something like 'missed', which isn't.

Really? You're going to criticize my use of diction and poor choice of words, on something which I'm not even thinking about. This is beyond pointless, if you find my posts offensive, flag them.

Posted by Squares

@ReVamp: Calm the hell down.

Posted by ReVamp

@Squares said:

@ReVamp: Calm the hell down.

I am.

Posted by Squares

@ReVamp: Right.

Posted by pizzatrails

House of M, because it changed thoughts of mutants and changing multiple universes.

Posted by Vance Astro
@Squares said:

@ReVamp: Calm the hell down.

u mad?
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Posted by Saren

Either Civil War or House of M.

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Posted by dtm1980

I'd say Secret Invasion too, it led to a lot of political and socio-political guff throughout the story arcs thereafter and not just the main ones. Civil War and Dark Reign were class story-lines that showed the inevitable explosion and fallout born of that event. Just a shame that a lot of smaller events in their wake weren't capitalised on. I thought that after The Punisher's two resurrections of sorts (FrankenCastle and then Bloodstone regenerated human Punisher) he'd have gone right back after Osborne, Hood and Daken after they no longer had strength in numbers.

I haven't finished Fear Itself yet or read anything immediately after that so I don't know what's gone on there

Posted by RPatrick

I don't really get the hate for Fear Itself. I mean, I can kind of dig the idea that people got frustrated by the ridiculous number of rather pointless tie-ins. But the miniseries itself was the kind of slam-bang action-oriented stuff that I, as a comic fan, tend to enjoy.

I was in Afghanistan during the summer, so I didn't get to read it in its original monthly form, but rather as a collected hardcover, so that might have contributed to my enjoyment. I can see how it might not have been able to sustain the excitement level when readers had to wait 30 days in between chapters. But, to me, it felt kind of like Morrison's early JLA work...just a huge, epic story that takes place on a planetary-scale. The fight between Thor, Thing and Hulk was absolutely fantastic. The New Avengers and Avengers tie-in issues were really good (actually made me like Squirrel-Girl.)

And yeah, I get people are feeling gypped by the lack of lasting consequences...Bucky-Cap's death and "resurrection" ten minutes later (and Thor's...), but you know what? I let one of my non-comic reading buddies read the hardcover and he dug the hell out of it. He actually asked me if I had anything else similar.

That, and the art was amazing.

It kind of reminded me of World War Hulk. In a good way.

Posted by Squares

@dtm1980:Well said! Your point about the Punisher was a very good one.

@RPatrick: Personally I don't really 'get' action comics, but it's good to hear that there's people out there who enjoy them.

I can understand how reading it all at once would make it more exciting and followable. Did the collection you have include all the tie-ins?

Sad to say I haven't read anything involving the JLA, but I'll give it a look. I have to admit that the fight with the Thing was something I found fairly interesting.

You're very right, the art was lovely. Definately better than Dark Reign, at that. Interestingly enough, I just recently had World War Hulk explained to me by a friend, and am hoping to be able to find a collection of it somewhere- it sounds very interesting.

Posted by RPatrick

World War Hulk was great. It reads better in collected form. Just slam-bang action from start to finish...sort of like what a Michael Bay movie is, but as though it were written by someone who isn't some kind of vaguely functioning idiot (like most Bay movies...). Great Romita Jr. art, too, and some really great Sentry moments.

Fear Itself, from what I read, was totally over-analyzed by the message-boarders (here and everywhere else.) Seriously...re-read it with Morrisons JLA in mind. It's almost uncanny how similar the two are in terms of scale, storytelling, and accessibility. The hatred for Fraction's writing style is something I seriously don't get at all.

Posted by Squares

@RPatrick: Large-scale comic events have been subject to fan scrutiny for years now, my friend, it's not as though this phenomenon began with Fear Itself. It's only because you paid attention to said scrutinizing that it seems excessive.

Posted by Enosisik

The Infinity gauntlet and Infinty War have a more round about affect on Marvel as a whole than these others have. Secret Wars introduced some new powerful beings to either the reader or the characters themselves but the 'Infinity' was for the sake of the entire universe as a whole.

Posted by Squares

@Enosisik:But what it change? What were the lasting effects?

Posted by Jotham

For books I actually read, WWH probably had the biggest impact, followed by House of M. Of course, Ultimatum completely killed all my love for the Ultimate universe, so I guess that was a pretty big impact.

Posted by TheCheeseStabber

AMAGLAM xD

Posted by mervotron

I would say House of M followed by Secret Invasion. House of M culled a lot of mutants and it affected the X-Men line-up as well as changing how everyone stood on dealing with overly powerful characters. Magik was brought back into the fold and evil organizations were even aware of what the Scarlet Witch had done, even trying to replicate reality warping powers (as witnessed in Ms. Marvel annual). Secret Invasion affected everyone's trust in each other and brought many others back (unfortunately not without a few sacrifices). It even gave Quicksilver some excuse to hide the fact that he had been an absolute jerk after House of M, because it was him who had made the Inhumans threaten war with Earth. Secret Invasion caused the events of Dark Reign to be allowed leading to the events in Fear Itself as Asgard had been weakened so much.

Posted by Squares

@TheCheeseStabber said:

AMAGLAM xD

Not familiar with that one, explain?

@mervotron: Solid reasoning.

Posted by mervotron

@Squares: Amalgam is the crossover of Marvel and DC that occurred during the 90's...

Posted by Squares

@mervotron:Was any of that canon?

Posted by The Poet

Marvel made a CROSSOVER?????!!!!!! :P

(don't they all blend into to one since after one crossover ends and another begins?)

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