Soulstealer

@Blood1991 said:

@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

Adventure Time "I freakin Love that show"

Like 1/4 of the characters shown could solo anyone on Regular show.

Reality Warping rap battle begs to differ. lol

I'll raise you Gunter "the most evil thing ever"

Nice. I think that's my favorite episode ever. However, I counter with Jinx Rigby.

Adventure Time Candy Zombies ftw

Zombies are no match for Death or his son...Thomas. XD

Keepers of the royal promise

Time Pony

we are going to have the longest sream of videos on the vine.

WIZARD BATTLE

Ice king is cool but Halloween Wizard murder stomps Ice King

Peppermint Butler pwns Halloween King

Summoning gates to hell, glowing evil eyes, and a taste for flesh....... Weird sh!t

Black Taxi

I think all we have proved is how epic awesome these shows are

Wizard Finn

Agreed. XD

Mississippi Queen

@Roddy010 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Skaddix said:

No you still dont get it. Storm thinks lightning bolt and Scott thinks run at the same time. The Lightning Bolt will always hit him before he moves anywhere because of the massive speed difference. This is a simple concept. If the Lightning Bolt does not hit him its Poor Writing.

No, I don't. Because it's not him thinking run. It's like walking into a building that's falling down, do I look up and think shrapnel or do I assume that because I'm in a building that's falling down I should avoid walking in a straight line under areas that I already know for a fact are coming down.

Anticipating something doesn't mean you have to be able to react to it, instead it means planning for it ahead of time. So again, moving before the lightning happens, you aren't fast enough to react to it and don't have to be.

Anticipating where a lightning bolt from the sky will strike is next to impossible...A falling building is not the same thing as lightning falling from the sky... For starters the speed of falling debris is relatively slower than that of a lightning bolt so you will have time to dodge that so you dodging a falling building is plausible...Lightning striking from the sky (especially made by someone who can make it appear with a thought) shouldn't be dodged by someone like Cyclops...How exactly can you anticipate a lightning strike when you don't know when it will strike?

That would be the case, if the lightning were naturally occurring and he wasn't the target. In this scenario he knows exactly where the bolt would be headed and knows the person firing it, how she fires it, potentially when, and even if she fires it at all. Are we trying to say he has no concept of Storm's habits in combat?

I've said it before that such goes both ways and it does, but my point is that it's plausible either way.

As for debris versus lightning, I was making an example not about the speed of either, but about the basic hostility of the environment Literally at anytime Storm is capable of having the sky fall on you, this is fact. Also you should note I never said anything about dodging debris, I said if you have an idea about where it's going to fall in advance then you simply have to make sure not to be in that place.

My point was and still is that he does know where it's going to fall and potentially when as well. I'm also not saying that Storm can't change the variables in the situation (Scott could potentially change them as well if the tables are reversed), but again that's not the point of my argument in the first place. The argument was if it was plausible for Scott to have dodged Ororo's lightning without it being PIS and my response is that either of them dodging one another isn't PIS in and of itself even if neither of them have superhuman speed because they're both familiar with each other's combat styles in a way that only teammates can be and long story short you don't have to be faster than anything to dodge the aim of said thing.

@Skaddix said:

No you still dont get it. Storm thinks lightning bolt and Scott thinks run at the same time. The Lightning Bolt will always hit him before he moves anywhere because of the massive speed difference. This is a simple concept. If the Lightning Bolt does not hit him its Poor Writing.

No, I don't. Because it's not him thinking run. It's like walking into a building that's falling down, do I look up and think shrapnel or do I assume that because I'm in a building that's falling down I should avoid walking in a straight line under areas that I already know for a fact are coming down.

Anticipating something doesn't mean you have to be able to react to it, instead it means planning for it ahead of time. So again, moving before the lightning happens, you aren't fast enough to react to it and don't have to be.

Edit:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Dextersinister said:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: Aim dodging can go along with the latter. But it can be used for Cyclops and the Storm bolt and against Cyclops for when Storm has dodged a solid beam before. Both know each other pretty well, it's not entirely impossible for them to anticipate each other's attacks.

Agreed.

Edit:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@TheThe said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Lord Shiva said:

IMHO, Storm > Cyclops and Havok in power, Dazzler = Cyclops and Havok in power.

If Dazzler can create force-field strong enough to resist Cyck and Havok's powers then Storm manipulates the air around them for a variety of effects.

Just for the record, without PIS, you can't dodge lightning with normal human reaction time. Now I really want someone to say "Well they hear the thunder first, then they move".

It's already been said, but Cyclops knows Storm. Being able to anticipate her attack pattern is hardly PIS...

And Storm knows Cyclops. It's curious how people use Cyclops knowledge of his bandmates like if it is a power or something enough to beat them in any kind of position. Cyke knows emma, so he beats her. Cyke knows Gambit, so he beats him. Cyke knows Jean, so he beats her. And of course, Storm, Gambit, Emma and Jean would have ABSOLUTLY NO IDEA about Cyke stats, antics,ways and style of thinking.LOL

Of course Storm have never been able, is not able, and will never be able to anticipate Cyke attacks, because for some reason everything about him is SO SECRET TO ALL OF HIS BANDMATES. When Cyke attacks, they always look at other places, so no one of them have any CLUE about who is .LOL. That's what CYke > All the X-men because you know what ? He knows them but they dont know him.LOL

No one is saying anything of the kind. Heck to be honest that's why I think Storm could likewise anticipate his optic blasts, she can both dodge his aim if she's able and probably anticipate his shots (even trick shots if she's really thinking things through). My point was that him dodging lightning isn't PIS, especially if he probably has a good idea of where it's coming from even before the fight begins.

The reason I call it PIS...in the time it take him to think move, he already been hit

Now Storm's bio-electric hand lightning is complete dodgeable but lightning from the sky....no

He shouldn't have to think move though. He's probably not thinking at all. He's a trained combatant, so muscle memory is his friend first off (more than likely) and secondly he'd have planned to dodge the moment he realizes that they're going to fight. He wouldn't in any way be reacting to the lightning.

Even with muscle memory he is not gonna dodge a real lightning bolt. He's just not fast enough, whenever someone dodges a lightning bolt and they have normal human reaction time its screams PIS. You can't dodge something that strikes the earth within a faction of second...now comic book logic (PIS) gives you some area to play with but truthfully no one short of the Flash's speed (maybe Quicksliver or precogs like Spider-Man) should dodge lightning.

He's not going to dodge a real lightning bolt he just has to dodge Storm's lightning Bolt's how they manifest who knows but which require her to gesture which should be a lot easier to dodge than the guy who aims by looking at you. Both Storm and Cyclop's will have street levelers dodging there beams with unnatural acrobatics until the cows come home, both are glass cannon's and I just don't see how Storm can fast draw with what is effectively the teams sniper with the most experience at shooting first.

First of all, Storm doesn't have to gesture to activate her powers, she can stand still her powers will hit whatever she wants. Cyke is not dodging a lightning bolt from the sky, just not gonna happen...though Storm probably doesn't want to kill Scott. Dazzler is also a sniper when it comes to her powers. People forget that Dazzler has held her own against some of Marvel most powerful players....the girl did have her own series before she joined the X-Men

Dazzler just doesn't get enough respect in general in my opinion. And ever since I read New Excaliber I've wanted to talk to someone that's an expert on her because I'd like to know a good starting point for picking up some of her comics.

@Blood1991 said:

@Sci_Fi_Rulez said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Blood1991 said:

Adventure Time "I freakin Love that show"

Like 1/4 of the characters shown could solo anyone on Regular show.

Reality Warping rap battle begs to differ. lol

I'll raise you Gunter "the most evil thing ever"

Nice. I think that's my favorite episode ever. However, I counter with Jinx Rigby.

Adventure Time Candy Zombies ftw

Zombies are no match for Death or his son...Thomas. XD

Keepers of the royal promise

Time Pony

we are going to have the longest sream of videos on the vine.

WIZARD BATTLE

Ice king is cool but Halloween Wizard murder stomps Ice King

Peppermint Butler pwns Halloween King

Summoning gates to hell, glowing evil eyes, and a taste for flesh....... Weird sh!t

Black Taxi

@Roddy010 said:

@Soulstealer said: Well that's not the best example then...The X-men were jobbing and hesitant the entire battle and they weren't even trying to hurt him...Him using his "knowledge" on a team whose minds were being manipulated isn't a fair fight in my opinion...That won't be the case here anyway...Also Scott has never been able to dodge Storm's lightning from the sky..Both instance where he dodged her lightning, it was from her hands...The one time that she used lightning from the sky he was unable to dodged it...

The debate I'm engaged in has nothing at all to do with the thread at hand

It's probably as off topic as you can get, seeing as it's an argument over what is and isn't PIS.

@Skaddix said:

Yeah the kurt stuff was good. The flipping Piotr not so much.

Power retrocon is power retrocon. The scan makes it obvious that he was using the counter force of hitting Wolvie to increase the momentum of his body to make his martial technique effective, not to mention for all we know Colossus was taking a step toward him in the first place and was off balance. But regardless the point of the scan was using knowledge of opponents against them and less how he's throwing Colossus.

@Roddy010 said:

@Soulstealer: In that Story the X-men thought Cyclops was Jean as Dark Phoenix because of the illusions that Mastermind put in the mind...So they all were jobbing, they didn't want to hurt Cyclops (who they saw as Dark Phoenix)...So those scans aren't applicable in this fight unless we have someone toying with Storm and Dazzler's minds during the fight...

The point of the scan wasn't that he was better than them, but that he was using knowledge of them in a combat situation to his advantage. So jobbing or not, it's an example of him using knowledge of his opponent in combat. And it's not as if that's the only example, it was simply an example. It also doesn't change the fact that he clearly anticipated Nightcrawler's teleportation.

'Edit:

@Skaddix said:

@Soulstealer said:

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: Aim dodging can go along with the latter. But it can be used for Cyclops and the Storm bolt and against Cyclops for when Storm has dodged a solid beam before. Both know each other pretty well, it's not entirely impossible for them to anticipate each other's attacks.

Agreed.

Edit:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@TheThe said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Lord Shiva said:

IMHO, Storm > Cyclops and Havok in power, Dazzler = Cyclops and Havok in power.

If Dazzler can create force-field strong enough to resist Cyck and Havok's powers then Storm manipulates the air around them for a variety of effects.

Just for the record, without PIS, you can't dodge lightning with normal human reaction time. Now I really want someone to say "Well they hear the thunder first, then they move".

It's already been said, but Cyclops knows Storm. Being able to anticipate her attack pattern is hardly PIS...

And Storm knows Cyclops. It's curious how people use Cyclops knowledge of his bandmates like if it is a power or something enough to beat them in any kind of position. Cyke knows emma, so he beats her. Cyke knows Gambit, so he beats him. Cyke knows Jean, so he beats her. And of course, Storm, Gambit, Emma and Jean would have ABSOLUTLY NO IDEA about Cyke stats, antics,ways and style of thinking.LOL

Of course Storm have never been able, is not able, and will never be able to anticipate Cyke attacks, because for some reason everything about him is SO SECRET TO ALL OF HIS BANDMATES. When Cyke attacks, they always look at other places, so no one of them have any CLUE about who is .LOL. That's what CYke > All the X-men because you know what ? He knows them but they dont know him.LOL

No one is saying anything of the kind. Heck to be honest that's why I think Storm could likewise anticipate his optic blasts, she can both dodge his aim if she's able and probably anticipate his shots (even trick shots if she's really thinking things through). My point was that him dodging lightning isn't PIS, especially if he probably has a good idea of where it's coming from even before the fight begins.

The reason I call it PIS...in the time it take him to think move, he already been hit

Now Storm's bio-electric hand lightning is complete dodgeable but lightning from the sky....no

He shouldn't have to think move though. He's probably not thinking at all. He's a trained combatant, so muscle memory is his friend first off (more than likely) and secondly he'd have planned to dodge the moment he realizes that they're going to fight. He wouldn't in any way be reacting to the lightning.

Edit:

@Skaddix said:

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: I feel like people don't understand the term "aim dodge".

I think you don't. You cannot aim dodge lightning coming from the sky but storm does not need to point. Hand based sure from the sky no especially considering Storm just needs to think. Scott needs to push a button which slows down his speeds even if we assume his beams move at light speed.

I think you don't get the concept of not being where you were a split second earlier on the general principle that the opponent you're facing can rain death on you from the sky.

Muscle memory my a**. Lightning moves at 224,000 MPH or in seconds if you prefer 3,700 miles per second. How fast do you think even a peak human athlete is? Usian Bolt is around 10 meters per second or .006 miles per second. Therefore, Scott without Superhuman speed should never dodge unless he has super speed which he does not have. Even if he knows its coming. I assume of course you can understand the difference between 3,700 miles per second and .006 miles per second.

And again no reason storm cannot drop massive bolts or fire off a barrage.

I wouldn't know, you know seeing as the concept of peak human being a comic concept down to its core. Heck, olympics level athlete in comics is a far cry from what someone whom has actually been in Olympic competition is capable of.

As for superhuman speed, I'm assuming you still haven't grasped the concept of dodging before the attack starts, so let me say it again. His dodge would have started before the attack started. He simply would not have been standing where the attack was aimed. There is not interplay between him and the attack.

Never said there was a reason. Half the people trying to argue against me, have nothing to do with my argument at all.

Lord Shiva and I were arguing about the PIS of lightning dodge and I've stated multiple times now why I don't think it is PIS.

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: Aim dodging can go along with the latter. But it can be used for Cyclops and the Storm bolt and against Cyclops for when Storm has dodged a solid beam before. Both know each other pretty well, it's not entirely impossible for them to anticipate each other's attacks.

Agreed.

Edit:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@TheThe said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Lord Shiva said:

IMHO, Storm > Cyclops and Havok in power, Dazzler = Cyclops and Havok in power.

If Dazzler can create force-field strong enough to resist Cyck and Havok's powers then Storm manipulates the air around them for a variety of effects.

Just for the record, without PIS, you can't dodge lightning with normal human reaction time. Now I really want someone to say "Well they hear the thunder first, then they move".

It's already been said, but Cyclops knows Storm. Being able to anticipate her attack pattern is hardly PIS...

And Storm knows Cyclops. It's curious how people use Cyclops knowledge of his bandmates like if it is a power or something enough to beat them in any kind of position. Cyke knows emma, so he beats her. Cyke knows Gambit, so he beats him. Cyke knows Jean, so he beats her. And of course, Storm, Gambit, Emma and Jean would have ABSOLUTLY NO IDEA about Cyke stats, antics,ways and style of thinking.LOL

Of course Storm have never been able, is not able, and will never be able to anticipate Cyke attacks, because for some reason everything about him is SO SECRET TO ALL OF HIS BANDMATES. When Cyke attacks, they always look at other places, so no one of them have any CLUE about who is .LOL. That's what CYke > All the X-men because you know what ? He knows them but they dont know him.LOL

No one is saying anything of the kind. Heck to be honest that's why I think Storm could likewise anticipate his optic blasts, she can both dodge his aim if she's able and probably anticipate his shots (even trick shots if she's really thinking things through). My point was that him dodging lightning isn't PIS, especially if he probably has a good idea of where it's coming from even before the fight begins.

The reason I call it PIS...in the time it take him to think move, he already been hit

Now Storm's bio-electric hand lightning is complete dodgeable but lightning from the sky....no

He shouldn't have to think move though. He's probably not thinking at all. He's a trained combatant, so muscle memory is his friend first off (more than likely) and secondly he'd have planned to dodge the moment he realizes that they're going to fight. He wouldn't in any way be reacting to the lightning.

Even with muscle memory he is not gonna dodge a real lightning bolt. He's just not fast enough, whenever someone dodges a lightning bolt and they have normal human reaction time its screams PIS. You can't dodge something that strikes the earth within a faction of second...now comic book logic (PIS) gives you some area to play with but truthfully no one short of the Flash's speed (maybe Quicksliver or precogs like Spider-Man) should dodge lightning.

I'll give you comic book logic, but because it is comic book logic, doesn't mean it is PIS. Or at the very least it's PIS that you can't keep calling PIS, because PIS tends to lean on the concept of being inconsistent.

@TheThe said:

@Soulstealer : Of course it was ironic. I just find the use of "Cyke's knowledge of his bandmates" overrated in the battles of this forum. For me, as the leader of a team whose he's not the most powerful or smartest one, there will always be a little amount of PIS about him from the writers. Cyke needed to be cimented as their leader and alpha dog, despite his lack of power.

That explains why writers will always use the "knowledge" thing as trick, as if his bandmates were morons.

Anyway, i'm not sayin Dazz & Storm win, i say their knowledge of each other is matched, so according to me this could go either way.

First off let me point out the difference between knowing your teammates and studying them. And let me say that his teammates hardly have to be morons to get caught up in their usual combat patterns and punished for it until they realize what he's doing and adapt accordingly.

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: Aim dodging can go along with the latter. But it can be used for Cyclops and the Storm bolt and against Cyclops for when Storm has dodged a solid beam before. Both know each other pretty well, it's not entirely impossible for them to anticipate each other's attacks.

Agreed.

Edit:

@Lord Shiva said:

@Soulstealer said:

@TheThe said:

@Soulstealer said:

@Lord Shiva said:

IMHO, Storm > Cyclops and Havok in power, Dazzler = Cyclops and Havok in power.

If Dazzler can create force-field strong enough to resist Cyck and Havok's powers then Storm manipulates the air around them for a variety of effects.

Just for the record, without PIS, you can't dodge lightning with normal human reaction time. Now I really want someone to say "Well they hear the thunder first, then they move".

It's already been said, but Cyclops knows Storm. Being able to anticipate her attack pattern is hardly PIS...

And Storm knows Cyclops. It's curious how people use Cyclops knowledge of his bandmates like if it is a power or something enough to beat them in any kind of position. Cyke knows emma, so he beats her. Cyke knows Gambit, so he beats him. Cyke knows Jean, so he beats her. And of course, Storm, Gambit, Emma and Jean would have ABSOLUTLY NO IDEA about Cyke stats, antics,ways and style of thinking.LOL

Of course Storm have never been able, is not able, and will never be able to anticipate Cyke attacks, because for some reason everything about him is SO SECRET TO ALL OF HIS BANDMATES. When Cyke attacks, they always look at other places, so no one of them have any CLUE about who is .LOL. That's what CYke > All the X-men because you know what ? He knows them but they dont know him.LOL

No one is saying anything of the kind. Heck to be honest that's why I think Storm could likewise anticipate his optic blasts, she can both dodge his aim if she's able and probably anticipate his shots (even trick shots if she's really thinking things through). My point was that him dodging lightning isn't PIS, especially if he probably has a good idea of where it's coming from even before the fight begins.

The reason I call it PIS...in the time it take him to think move, he already been hit

Now Storm's bio-electric hand lightning is complete dodgeable but lightning from the sky....no

He shouldn't have to think move though. He's probably not thinking at all. He's a trained combatant, so muscle memory is his friend first off (more than likely) and secondly he'd have planned to dodge the moment he realizes that they're going to fight. He wouldn't in any way be reacting to the lightning.

Edit:

@Skaddix said:

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: I feel like people don't understand the term "aim dodge".

I think you don't. You cannot aim dodge lightning coming from the sky but storm does not need to point. Hand based sure from the sky no especially considering Storm just needs to think. Scott needs to push a button which slows down his speeds even if we assume his beams move at light speed.

I think you don't get the concept of not being where you were a split second earlier on the general principle that the opponent you're facing can rain death on you from the sky.

@god_spawn said:

@Soulstealer: I feel like people don't understand the term "aim dodge".

Agreed. Or they mix up reaction time with anticipation of an attack.