Welcome to Comic Vine's "Roundtable User Discussion"! If this is the first time you are reading one of these Discussions then listen up 'cause I'm going to explain how this works. A couple of CV users, like yourself, virtually met up to talk comic books and comic-related topics. That conversation has been posted here for you guys to see, read and enjoy. After you read our conversation be sure to comment below where you can submit your own opinions after reading ours. If you haven't already, be sure to go back and read the comic book-related discussions we had in the past. (Here).
I am Geo or better known as sora_thekey, I will be moderating this discussion and will also be giving some insight. Let's begin by introducing everyone who is "sitting" here with me. Here is returning Green Lantern Guinea Pig fanatic Icarusflies and a few newcomers. Please help me welcome to their first Roundtable: InnerVenom123, Lance Uppercut and Caligula!
Icarusflies: Hey…everyone's favorite artificial intelligence…er, I mean moderator, Icarusflies here!
InnerVenom123: I am InnerVenom123. Also known as The Walrus, also known as GA-LAK-TUS, also known as Venom. Or just IV. Or InnerVenom. Or Zach. HI!
Caligula: Hey! It's true I'm a Comic Vine Roundtable Virgin... hopefully it's everything I've ever dreamed off ;)
Lance Uppercut: I'm Lance and Hugh Laurie is my spirit guide.
Welcome you guys! I am excited for this discussion because we are going to talk about one of my favorite comic book-related topics, but first I need to ask: What have you guys been reading? This includes comic books, digital comics, motion comics or webcomics!
InnerVenom123: I've been busy reading Rick Remender's Venom, Punisher: MAX, Moon Knight (essentials), and Amazing Spider-man!
Caligula: Mainly Batman Inc as far as the big two are concerned I haven't really been liking the directions either Marvel or DC are taking. But I haven't in a while. Been reading mostly Sweet Tooth, Scalped, and Hack & Slash: My First Maniac. I've also recently began re-reading Y: the Last Man.
Icarusflies: >deep breath<
Batman, Batman and Robin, Batman: Streets of Gotham, Batgirl, Batman Incorporated, Incorruptible, Irredeemable, Guarding the Globe, Invincible, Sweet Tooth, Chew, iZombie, Doom Patrol, R.E.B.E.L.S., Green Lantern, Brightest Day, Justice League: Generation Lost, Booster Gold, Action Comics, the Flash, Teen Titans, Batman Beyond, Weird Worlds, Birds of Prey, Red Robin, Superboy, Tiny Titans, Detective Comics, Xombi.
In the wonderful world of webcomics: Dr. McNinja, String Theory, Let's Be Friends Again, Ctrl-Alt-Delte, xkcd, Hanna is Not a Boy's Name, Hark! A Vagrant, Romantically Apocalyptic, Boxer Hockey, Buttersafe, Guinea Something Good, The Punchline is Machismo, Hyperbole and a Half, Gutters, Insane Yeti Squirrel, Rare Candy Treatment, Doctor Cat, Looking for Group, a Petty Nuzlocke Challenge, Johnny Wander
I think my jaw just dropped Icarus!
Icarusflies: It's called being totally obsessed, Sora. Oh, and Deadpool.
Lance Uppercut: Fear Itself and all the associated tie in's, Annihilators, Avengers: The Children's Crusade, Lobo Unbound, Lobo: The Last Czarnian, Lobo: Helloween (Featuring the lovely Etrigan the Demon), R.E.B.E.L.S (If you didn't know, also includes Lobo), Deathstroke The Terminator (got my hands on the full series, so this is going to be fun), The Judas Contract, Uncanny X-Men 534.1, and in preparation for Iron Mans .1 issue, reading the last run of Iron Fist, and the five issue mini Immortal Weapons. Oh, and Secret Avengers.
As for web comics, the only one I read regularly is Looking For Group, but Scott Ramsoomair, the guy that does VG Cats has a pokemon based web comic, and I love it.
Caligula: Oooh! I almost forgot Checkered Man's web comic "Tales of the Checkered Man"
Wow! You guys have been busy! I just read Fear Itself and Avengers: Children's Crusade. I'm glad we have a variety here because we are going to need all of that comic book knowledge to talk about the following: Animated TV Adaptations.
Caligula: Haha. A controversial subject to be sure, it will definitely spark some debate.
Lance Uppercut: This is gonna be groovy.
Icarusflies: Dare I say that the discussion is going to get… ANIMATED? >cue snare drum<
So, do you guys have a favorite animated comic-book-based TV series?
Icarusflies: I'd have to say that it's Batman: The Brave and the Bold. That series is so much fun!
InnerVenom123: The Spectacular Spider-Man.
Lance Uppercut: If we were counting series that were adapted to comics, then Thundercats easily. If not, I highly enjoyed Wolverine and The X-Men. While I felt Juggernauts portrayal was a bit stiff and brutish, Magneto in that series is a complete Boss.
Caligula: Not really I find most of them to be over-rated and cheap to be sure. I think most of this stems from the fact that I grew up in a home where I could watch "R" rated movies and such. Therefore the average cartoon held very little appeal to me. That's not to say that there were no cartoons that I liked, but it took a little bit extra to impress me. I liked things like Beavis & Butthead, and Aeon Flux as a child (and still do). However one Comic Book cartoon really captured my adolescent mind and that was MTV's production of Sam Keith's " The Maxx". I still to this day find "the Maxx" to be brilliant, both in written and serialized animated form.
Wow, Caligula, your answer is really good. Especially since you are branching out to the more obscure animated comic book adaptations. In this instance I have to agree with Venom. I love Spectacular Spider-Man.
So here's a question for you guys, why are those animated series your favorite? Does it have to do with the fact that they are very close to their comic book counterparts?
Icarusflies: Somewhat. In B:B&B, they keep crucial comic elements while mixing it with somewhat lighter elements. Case in point, the Music Meister episode…EVERYONE IS SINGING!….even Batman. Yet despite this silliness, there are elements from the comics…Ted Kord's death, Jaime Reyes taking up the mantle, Batman's obsession with stopping crime, as well as his prowess as a detective.
In the Teen Titans animated series, they introduced characters that the casual fan (aka, ten-year-old me) would not know, but which the more longtime reader would appreciate. These characters did not get in the way of the story, but they did add a nice touch.
Lance Uppercut: Icarus took the words out of my mouth in regards to more obscure characters that a long time reader would appreciate. Bolivar Trask, Senyaka, Domino, Harpoon, and many others.. And the voice acting was superb. Phil LaMarr brought a distinct flair to Gambit, Nolan North managed to seperate himself from his Deadpool identity long enough to pull off Cyclops.
Caligula: While "Maxx" is close to it's Comic Book counterpart, I would not say that is why I liked it. When I watched "the Maxx" on MTV as a kid I had never even read a "Maxx" comic yet, or for that matter even a Sam Keith comic, or for even stronger matters an Image Comic. No, the reason I believe, I enjoyed it as a child was more of the fact, that I was always an outcast. I was a very depressed child and shunned by most of my fellow peers. For lack of a better word I was lost and alone. So I felt a kin-ship with the Main character "the Maxx"/Dave he was a homeless man, with "mental" issues and his only friend was his social worker. I connected with the character. And as I grew older, I enjoyed the story even more for it's "Social" Commentary. I very much share a lot of Sam Keith's sentiments.
InnerVenom123: The fact that TSSM is a combination of pretty much everything awesome Spider-Man related.
Now let me put an idea out there. What if these series pulled a "Jonah Hex" or "X-Men Origins" and did their own thing without following the original source whatsoever?
Caligula: To be fair I wouldn't have said that Jonah Hex and XMO didn't follow their original source "Whatsoever". Were they bad movies yes... definitely. But here is the thing was Jonah Hex set in the Wild West? Yes. Was Jonah Hex a Cowboy? Yes. Was the comic gritty as well as the film? Yes. Where it failed was the acting, and the wild leaps of faith it took. Not that I don't condone taking wild leaps in adapting things, I wholly support making something different. it's just that these two examples executed poorly on these issues. but that's just my opinion.
InnerVenom123: Awful. Not a fan.
Lance Uppercut: Oh. So like Fred and Barney meet The Thing? Where instead of being apart of the Fantastic Four, it was Benjy Grim, a whiny teenage kid who gained his powers using two rings and putting them together ala the Wonder Twins? That show was horrible. Seriously. And that particular piece of trash was made all the way back in '79.
Icarusflies: That wouldn't really work…or at least, wouldn't attract the same audience. When people watch a show about Batman, they want to watch a GUY IN A BAT COSTUME BEATING THINGS UP! Not a sob-story about a zoologist who gets rabies and only has three days to live.
Icarusflies: These characters have such rich history, it's a shame to waste it. Without that history the show becomes more of a 'tangent' universe thing. Same names, different concept, not particularly interesting, and a colossal waste of time.
Caligula: As long as it is good, then I don't see a problem. (as long as the characters remain true to their selves, which was XMO's biggest problem).
I know we haven't tackled "live-action" adaptations yet, and the point i'm making. I'll explain when we transition to "live-action" TV renditions of comics. for the moment I leave it as this "if it's good, it's good. if it's bad it's bad". I prefer to judge things on their own merits rather than, it's other appearances in various media.
Then what about series like Super Hero Squad or the unmade Gotham High? Those series don't follow their comic book counterparts.
Icarusflies: I would have LOVED to see Gotham High. It probably would have been terrible, but I really enjoy cheesy/bad TV.
Caligula: I'm not a fan of either of those concepts but I understand the appeal. And why it works. It works because it's done well.
Gotham High, to me, seemed like it would've worked the same way X-Men: Evolution did. I loved XM: Evo!
Lance Uppercut: The concept behind Gotham High looked pretty rough. Killer Croc, the football star? Harley and Ivy, cheerleaders, and what was Freeze going to do in those sunglasses besides pull of the greatest John Lennon impression is television history?
Caligula: What was Joker "the Toker"? or let me guess... "the Class Clown"? bad puns for the victory.!!!
InnerVenom123: Gotham High looked cool. In a "SO BAD ITS GREAT" way.
Now that I think about it, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 90s Marvel series like X-Men or Spider-Man!
Icarusflies: I don't remember either series.
InnerVenom123: The best thing about the 90s Spider-man was V-- I mean Green Goblin. It's not like people expect me to say Venom.
That's a lie. It was Venom. Venom was awesome in the 90s show. .... until Carnage showed up. That whole Dormammu saga was so lame.
Lance Uppercut: I love the X-Men animated series. It was campy, to be sure, but hilarious. Gambit had the best lines in that show. Though every time Jubilee was in an episode, I wanted to shoot my self. Her voice was terrible.
Caligula: The 90's X-Men and Spider-Man, series were two of the cartoons I was referring to that had little appeal to me. The animation was shoddy, and the voice acting grates on my spine.
So Caligula would you favor the more recent animates series over the 90s'?
Caligula: Most definitely Sora. I'm not huge on the new ones either. but they are a superior leap in quality in both acting and animation.
Have any of you seen Young Justice?
InnerVenom123: Just the first episode.
Caligula: I've seen some promos. but as for the show itself, no. So it would be unwise of me to give an opinion on something I've not seen.
Icarusflies: Yeah! It's fun, though not really incredible. They focus a little too much on the 'teen angst' side of things, and less on the 'ZOMG I JUST BEAT 12 VIDEO GAMES WHILE YOU SAID THAT! :D' super-speed stuff. Again though, I like the obscure characters and the animation style.
Lance Uppercut: I haven't seen it yet, but my nephew loves it. He's five though, so his taste is anything with loud noises.
I liked the fact that although this show doesn't make things too kid-ish. In the first episode they fight a guy who's skin is torn in a very blood-less manner. I was shocked! I also distinctively remember that there was an episode in Justice League: Unlimited there is a scene where Huntress and The Question are talking on the phone and it alludes to them having phone sex. These are meant for kids but DC does a good job a maintaining an adult theme towards them. I think Marvel hasn't been able to achieve that.
InnerVenom123: The Spectacular Spider-man had a lot of innuendo.
"Don't get your goop in my hair!" ~Black Cat
Oh right, Spectacular Spider-Man managed to pull of the same things I was talking about.
Caligula: If you don't mind Sora, I actually have a question. if you don't mind me asking one.
Caligula: Alright my fellow Viners, I pose this question to you. "Do you prefer a series, with self contained episodes for example having a story play out and conclude within one or two episodes, or a series that has the story play out over the course of the season or entire series?
Icarusflies: There's no reason a series can't do both. Have the smaller conflict (a single villain for example) solved in an episode, but lay down the strings of the subplot. As the series progresses, the subplot becomes more important, and the finale will therefore be awesome.
InnerVenom123: As long as the story is good, I don't care.
I actually like a continuing story, like what was done with Wolverine and the X-Men. The story throughout the series was about the Professor trying to prevent Days of the Future Past to happen. Yet there were self contained stories that evolved out of this long run story.
Lance Uppercut: I like a combination of both. The JLU series did a lot of self contained stories, but that always lead to two part episodes which I felt really detracted to the series as a whole. But at times it managed to play off of and expand on previous arcs, like Lex's obsession with Braniac or the few episodes with Darkseid.
So, what character, story arc or comic book series would you like to see get the animated TV series treatment?
Icarusflies: You just HAD to ask didn't you. Then I shall answer… UMBRELLA ACADEMY!
I would also really enjoy a Doom Patrol series, Flash series, or Invincible series.
Umbrella Academy plug... I thought there was something missing here!
Icarusflies: I had promised myself I wouldn't mention it this Roundtable, but that is honestly the animated series I would like to see most.
Lance Uppercut: Maybe a Power Pack based show. Those adorable little guys would do well on Cartoon Network. Though for a more adult theme, something like iZombie or The Goon.
Power Pack! YES! I totally want to see that!
Lance Uppercut: I just want to see an animated kid Thor ride an animated Beta Ray Bill pony (Right). Because that's just adorable.
I would say Ultimate Spider-Man but that is already getting an animated show next year so my choice is Invincible (I had to mention it!)