The Emma/Xavier telepathic relationship.


Alright we know that since his creation Xavier has been the most powerful telepath on the planet. Barring telepaths such as Jean and Legion. Emma has always been sidelined when it came to grabbing that title simply because...well that's just it "because it's Xavier". Feats for Xavier have been given and for the most part Emma has matched those feats. So why is she not considered to be his equal? No one is saying that Emma would win against Xavier if they went in an all out battle. But you must admit that Emma has shown to be just as powerful as Xavier if not more so.

So my question is.. What makes Xavier so much more powerful than Emma that she'll never be his equal?
40 Comments
40 Comments
Posted by Superguy0009e

experience and control

Posted by pixelized

Did you read that issue of Legacy? Some pretty neat things happen between the two of them.

Posted by Son Of Storm
@pixelized said:

Did you read that issue of Legacy? Some pretty neat things happen between the two of them.

Indeed. In fact I was re-reading issues and read that one which is what made me write this blog.
 
Most people claim that the only reason Emma managed to even do that is because of Scott. That she couldn't do it on her own.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Superguy0009e said:
experience and control
And Emma has showed that she possesses both in spades.
Posted by Mercy_
@Superguy0009e said:
experience and control
Emma has an immense amount of both. She's beaten a telepath who is conceivably more powerful than her (at that time) with pure skill and finesse. 
Moderator
Posted by The Stegman

in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her

Posted by Son Of Storm
@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him. 
 
That may be true. But I don't think it's that much that it would make a difference.
Posted by pixelized

@Son Of Storm said:

@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him.

Like what? Show me the carfax.

"Who's the stronger telepath" is a little harder to pin down as the instances and creative team that their TP is used under, vary. I could argue that the Red Queen is stronger than Jamie Braddock as she was able to warp Psylockes mind to remove the block that her super mighty reality warping brother placed. Because Emma and Charles haven't gone head to head, nor been side by side in ages, it becomes murky territory.

TP also isn't gauged in tons, like super strength, so you can't say something like, "Emma can lift 86 tons with her mind while Charles can only lift 85.9 so Emma is stronger."

Posted by Edamame

What I find interesting is that Emma only managed to stalemate Exodus in Messiah Complex, but Xavier (whilst in a coma) was able to defeat Exodus. I guess that somehow shows Xavier's telepathic superiority. I don't see any other explanation for it.

Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
What I find interesting is that Emma only managed to stalemate Exodus in Messiah Complex, but Xavier (whilst in a coma) was able to defeat Exodus. I guess that somehow shows Xavier's telepathic superiority. I don't see any other explanation for it.
But Exodus was also able to use his powers in the battle with Xavier. He wasn't able to with Emma.
Posted by EmmaGrace
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him.

Like what? Show me the carfax.

"Who's the stronger telepath" is a little harder to pin down as the instances and creative team that their TP is used under, vary. I could argue that the Red Queen is stronger than Jamie Braddock as she was able to warp Psylockes mind to remove the block that her super mighty reality warping brother placed. Because Emma and Charles haven't gone head to head, nor been side by side in ages, it becomes murky territory.

TP also isn't gauged in tons, like super strength, so you can't say something like, "Emma can lift 86 tons with her mind while Charles can only lift 85.9 so Emma is stronger."

This. Telepaths all have unique strengths and play them to their advantages. 
 
In terms of raw telepathic power and/or skill, I think Emma and Charles are equals.
Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm said:
@Edamame said:
What I find interesting is that Emma only managed to stalemate Exodus in Messiah Complex, but Xavier (whilst in a coma) was able to defeat Exodus. I guess that somehow shows Xavier's telepathic superiority. I don't see any other explanation for it.
But Exodus was also able to use his powers in the battle with Xavier. He wasn't able to with Emma.
That is what also confuses me.
Posted by Son Of Storm
Before I begin I just want to remind everyone. I'm NOT saying that Emma is more powerful than Xavier. Just that she isn't as weak as people make her out to be when facing him.
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him.

Like what? Show me the carfax.

LMAO
 
Like drawing in raw psionic energy and coalescing it into bolts of lightning.
Bringing people back from comas
Controlling Scott's powers. Even if for a limited time. 

Sorting through billions of minds at once.

 "Who's the stronger telepath" is a little harder to pin down as the instances and creative team that their TP is used under, vary. I could argue that the Red Queen is stronger than Jamie Braddock as she was able to warp Psylockes mind to remove the block that her super mighty reality warping brother placed. Because Emma and Charles haven't gone head to head, nor been side by side in ages, it becomes murky territory.

You used that fiasco....... The world now ends lol.

TP also isn't gauged in tons, like super strength, so you can't say something like, "Emma can lift 86 tons with her mind while Charles can only lift 85.9 so Emma is stronger."

Exactly. But this is the mentally of some people. Only with Charles being "tones" stronger than Emma.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
@Son Of Storm said:
@Edamame said:
What I find interesting is that Emma only managed to stalemate Exodus in Messiah Complex, but Xavier (whilst in a coma) was able to defeat Exodus. I guess that somehow shows Xavier's telepathic superiority. I don't see any other explanation for it.
But Exodus was also able to use his powers in the battle with Xavier. He wasn't able to with Emma.
That is what also confuses me.
I think at best they are equally matched. And that the only thing that may save Xavier in a one-on-one fight would be his experience. But who knows. Emma isn't exactly known to play fair.
Posted by TenguMan8

There are two reasonswhy really....
 
1) Yeah Xavier and Emma both have good feats but that doesn't mean they are equal, since Charles is never really used any more...while I'm sure you could still make the argument that Emma has surpassed him i doubt they'll really give her the title as the world's most powerful telepath anytime soon since Xavier is a kind of a symbol...he started the x-men as the world's best telepath and if writers give Emma that title not only will he have not been the x-men's  leader for how many years but he'll also lose his title as the world's strongest telepath... this would make his character useless 
 
2) They're both omega level telepaths, and that's good enough. Jean and Legion are omega level telepaths/mutants so them being better was just going to happen i guess...
 
Part of me does think that they should either do something new with Xavier or just pass on the mantle because right now he's barely used. The other part of me knows that if they do give it to Emma that Xavier will probably never be used again(not that that's different from now).

Posted by Son Of Storm
@TenguMan8 
I actually thought about your reason 1 a lot. I mean that IS Charles Xavier. His name and "worlds most powerful telepath" are synonymous. Without that title he's just another mutant. But I didn't think Marvel would be that superficial.
Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm said:
I think at best they are equally matched. And that the only thing that may save Xavier in a one-on-one fight would be his experience. But who knows. Emma isn't exactly known to play fair.
Yeah, Emma using Dust to "kill" Exodus was quite ruthless. If blood-lusted, she probably would do the same to Xavier. 
However, I recall Xavier being able to engage Ego the Living Planet, and I am not sure if Emma Frost could do this.
Besides, didn't Xavier get a power boost from the M'Kraan Crystal after Scarlet Witch de-powered everything/everyone? I don't recall Emma receiving any power boosts.
Another important thing to note is that Emma seemed to be powerless against the Shadow King in X-Men: Worlds Apart, but that may have been due to plot. I just wanted to say that Xavier had "less" trouble against the Shadow King.
Posted by The Stegman
@pixelized:  
 
Posted by pixelized

@Son Of Storm said:

Before I begin I just want to remind everyone. I'm NOT saying that Emma is more powerful than Xavier. Just that she isn't as weak as people make her out to be when facing him.
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him.

Like what? Show me the carfax.

LMAO

Like drawing in raw psionic energy and coalescing it into bolts of lightning.
Bringing people back from comas
Controlling Scott's powers. Even if for a limited time.

Sorting through billions of minds at once.

Honey B, these are not Emma exclusive and you really exaggerated that psybolt from Gen X.

Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame 

I recall Xavier being able to engage Ego the Living Planet

I think he had a Skrull's help or something like that. I've never seen it. But I can't imagine he did it "easily".


Besides, didn't Xavier get a power boost from the M'Kraan Crystal after Scarlet Witch de-powered everything/everyone?

He did. But those boosts were never shown. And if they have been shown it's never been stated. 

I don't recall Emma receiving any power boosts.

She didn't.

Another important thing to note is that Emma seemed to be powerless against the Shadow King in X-Men: Worlds Apart, but that may have been due to plot

It was. Storm knew that Emma was the only one who could help her besides the Panther God. But she was knocked by Scott's beams. Yet in other occurrences she's been completely unharmed.

 I just wanted to say that Xavier had "less" trouble against the Shadow King.

I've heard so many different versions of their battle it's ridiculous.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm said:

Before I begin I just want to remind everyone. I'm NOT saying that Emma is more powerful than Xavier. Just that she isn't as weak as people make her out to be when facing him.
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm said:

@The Stegman said:
in time she very well might surpass him, but right now he's simply got more experience than her
She's already done some things that surpass him.

Like what? Show me the carfax.

LMAO

Like drawing in raw psionic energy and coalescing it into bolts of lightning.
Bringing people back from comas
Controlling Scott's powers. Even if for a limited time.

Sorting through billions of minds at once.

Honey B, these are not Emma exclusive and you really exaggerated that psybolt from Gen X.

Can you explain that? Psi bolts are Psi bolts. Emma knows the difference. And the description she gave sounded nothing like a normal Psi bolt.
Posted by pixelized

@Son Of Storm: Honestly when I read it, it didn't seem like more than the effect drawn around Hellion when he uses his TK. It was more for the readers to get a better visual of what's going to happen. What does a Psi Bolt do that she can't do with regular hand to head TP? And she wasn't like absorbing in energy from the world around her, she used her own.

Edited by Son Of Storm
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm: Honestly when I read it, it didn't seem like more than the effect drawn around Hellion when he uses his TK. It was more for the readers to get a better visual of what's going to happen. What does a Psi Bolt do that she can't do with regular hand to head TP? And she wasn't like absorbing in energy from the world around her, she used her own.

 Actually she didn't use any of her energy.
 
A normal psi bolt usually originates from the power of the caster. Not the surrounding psionic energies.
Edited by pixelized

@Son Of Storm: Huh? But anyway from that point and 15 years earlier with Jean Grey as Phoenix, something went askew as she was only able to channel the energy she had into one. Anyway, it's a moot point as it doesn't make her any better nor worse than Xavier.

Posted by Son Of Storm
@pixelized said:

@Son Of Storm: Huh? But anyway from that point and 15 years earlier with Jean Grey as Phoenix, something went askew as she was only able to channel the energy she had into one. Anyway, it's a moot point as it doesn't make her any better nor worse than Xavier.

Alright....
Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm said:

 I just wanted to say that Xavier had "less" trouble against the Shadow King.

I've heard so many different versions of their battle it's ridiculous.
What do you mean exactly?
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
@Son Of Storm said:

 I just wanted to say that Xavier had "less" trouble against the Shadow King.

I've heard so many different versions of their battle it's ridiculous.
What do you mean exactly?
I've heard that: 
-Xavier lost because SK wasted the majority of his power on effects.
-Xavier was/is not as powerful as SK because SK has controlled billions of minds at once.
-The whole battle was PIS.
 
Those are just some I remember from the top of my head.
Posted by The Impersonator
Posted by SC

I'd say because this is fiction, and so even though absence of evidence is not evidence of absence is not the best way to compare and gauge ability between people when rarely that particular ability has been tested consistently and thoroughly to limit, in real life, in fiction, where consistency is an after thought to the quality of being sold to as many people as possible and other creative elements... so to continue that train of thought, creatively, Xavier though general writer/editor intent seems to be viewed as at a certain level as a telepath. Sort of like how the Hulk is for strength? Its not really too clear cut and other characters might have superior feats and not all writers agree and, and, and, and, and some times characters will use either character as a way to demonstrate a stepping stone? (X-Man?) With time and different writers, these things can and often do change. 

Moderator
Posted by labarith

picard

Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm said:
-Xavier lost because SK wasted the majority of his power on effects.
Yeah, the Shadow King more often than not tries to have sadistic fun in his telepathic fights. So, he rarely takes any of his fights seriously. 
Would you like to see the scans of the fight? I have them in my images section.  
 
@Son Of Storm said:
-Xavier was/is not as powerful as SK because SK has controlled billions of minds at once.
This is true. As a matter of fact, the Shadow King lost to Psylocke because he was controlling billions upon billions of minds at that particular time.
Posted by theicon
@Superguy0009e: best said
 
pretty much a jedi  vs  a grand master jedi deference, comparison 
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
@Son Of Storm said:
-Xavier lost because SK wasted the majority of his power on effects.
Yeah, the Shadow King more often than not tries to have sadistic fun in his telepathic fights. So, he rarely takes any of his fights seriously. 
Would you like to see the scans of the fight? I have them in my images section.  
 
@Son Of Storm said:
-Xavier was/is not as powerful as SK because SK has controlled billions of minds at once.
This is true. As a matter of fact, the Shadow King lost to Psylocke because he was controlling billions upon billions of minds at that particular time.
Alright.
 
Let me guess. He underestimated Psylocke.
Posted by Edamame
Yes, the Shadow King often underestimates and "plays" with his opponents. I unfortunately couldn't find any other images.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame 
Do you know the issue #?
Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm said:
@Edamame 
Do you know the issue #?
I will get that information to you soon.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
@Son Of Storm said:
@Edamame 
Do you know the issue #?
I will get that information to you soon.
Alright.
Posted by Edamame
@Son Of Storm: Apparently, it was X-Men Volume 1: 01 #117 when the Shadow King and Xavier first met and battled. Furthermore, the Muir Island Saga collects Uncanny X-Men #278-280. I wonder if one can still buy these issues. They are very old.
Posted by Son Of Storm
@Edamame said:
@Son Of Storm: Apparently, it was X-Men Volume 1: 01 #117 when the Shadow King and Xavier first met and battled. Furthermore, the Muir Island Saga collects Uncanny X-Men #278-280. I wonder if one can still buy these issues. They are very old.
I have both issues. Thanks for the #s.
Posted by Edamame

No problem.