Smart_Dork_Dude

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Smart_Dork_Dude

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#1  Edited By Smart_Dork_Dude

@lvenger: I STILL say, with the Old 52 Clark being around? He shows up as Superman, makes people think New 52 Clark is suffering some delusion, boom, everything is fixed. Not that it may matter much since with the whole "DC Rebirth" thing this may all be a moot point.

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@lvenger: Well namely that Lois and Clark's relationship would be VERY different all these years for one.

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In 1940 Jerry Siegel produced a script for a Superman story that would have totally changed the character's status-quo not only would it introduce is first real weakness (K-metal), but it would have changed his relationship with Lois Lane forever. The story was drawn up but canned, possibly due to pressure from the producer of the Radio Drama (but no one is sure for certain). Only bits and pieces survived until Mark Waid found the original script in the DC Archives, he re-typed the script and eventually a version was produced online using the script and as much of the 1940's art that has survived.

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Through their investigation into a gangster Lois and the depowered Clark are trapped in a mine, just as they are almost out of of oxygen the meteor passes and Clark's powers return... He is able to save Lois but unable to maintain the secret of his dual identity.

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So the story ends with the K-metal sample stolen, and Lois with full knowledge of Superman's identity. There'd be no going back, but then the story never saw print. I find the idea that K-Metal causes humans to have Kryptonian powers, or at least Golden Age Kryptonian powers, which if K-Metal itself was ever actually used could have been a pretty interesting way to have OTHER Superman characters show up. Like during DC's whole "NO OTHER KRYPTONIANS PERIOD!" phase they could have just had a it empower people like Power Girl or Linda Danvers and boom. Power Girl and Supergirl exist with no problems. It could have even lead to a VERY interesting take on Metallo, still a cyborg but still human enough to be sufficiently amplified by the K-Metal thus making him an even MORE dangerous opponent since he's not just weakening Superman, his strength is also growing from exposure as well.

I actually like the fact that it really established how long it took Golden Age Superman to uncover his roots. The fact that it seems to have developed the idea of Kryptonite even before the radio show did. But maybe most importantly, I like how even though the Clark-Lois-Superman triangle was one of the most personal, and successful, parts of the Superman myth, that Joe and Jerry did seem to come to realize, at least over time, how easily it could be perceived as sexist. Working toward character development and story progression was also a rather rare goal at the time, and it's kind of a shame that Siegel and Shuster weren't encouraged in breaking that trend.

I find the idea that K-Metal causes humans to have Kryptonian powers, or at least Golden Age Kryptonian powers, which if K-Metal itself was ever actually used could have been a pretty interesting way to have OTHER Superman characters show up. Like during DC's whole "NO OTHER KRYPTONIANS PERIOD!" phase they could have just had a it empower people like Power Girl or Linda Danvers and boom. Power Girl and Supergirl exist with no problems. It could have even lead to a VERY interesting take on Metallo, still a cyborg but still human enough to be sufficiently amplified by the K-Metal thus making him an even MORE dangerous opponent since he's not just weakening Superman, his strength is also growing from exposure as well.

Still, a look into what might have been I suppose.

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Smart_Dork_Dude

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Canada in Marvel has had a Super Registration Act for years, but it was never a problem because it didn't involve forced missions, secret prisons, conscripting teenagers, or supervillain mercenaries. Just goes to show? Canada is great!

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#5  Edited By Smart_Dork_Dude
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In his director's commentary for Groundhog Day Harold Ramis refers to what he calls the "Superman problem," e.g. the notion that Supes can and should be busy 24/7 doing heroic stuff, so why is he wasting time with Lois, Perry White, and Jimmy Olsen? This was evident in the Silver Age, when being Clark Kent was entirely a hobby. More recent stories seem to (attempt to) suggest that he'd go nuts having to be Superman every single moment. Superman said this outright in an episode of Superman the Animated Series titled "The Late Mr. Kent" where Clark Kent is "murdered" by a car bomb.

"I am Clark. I need to be Clark! I'd go crazy if I had to be Superman all the time!"

Then there was the classic Bronze Age story "Who Took The Super Out Of Superman?"

It involves him being forced to choose only one of his identities to maintain. He soon realizes that both are equally important to him, because he can't stand the guilt of ignoring his calling if he stays as Clark for too long, but even Superman can't stand being Superman 24 hours a day. This theme crops up repeatedly in Bronze Age Superman stories (and even a Supergirl story), but "Who Took..." is the most well-known example.

Surprisingly, the Big Blue offered one of the better deconstructions of the "Good Samaritan" trope. An elderly woman living in Suicide Slums(Metropolis' ghettos) gets the idea that she is able to call down Superman on bad guys after praying twice for divine intervention(Only once was it for personal reasons, and that was for her own life to be saved). She eventually goes looking for trouble so that Superman will come in and stop it. Then she tries it when, unknown to her, Superman was away preventing a giant space monster from devouring Earth, and goes into a gang's hang out hoping that they will be broken up. She is shot, thankfully non-fatally, and the people of Metropolis realize that they can solve their problems without Superman. The woman bears no ill will towards him, nor do the people of Metropolis, and the story concludes that Superman is a nice thing to have around, but doesn't need to be there all the time... Well, except when there's a hostile space monster or its equivalent in the vicinity, but for human-scale problems, he can take a break.

One storyline had Superman early in his Post-Crisis career realizing that even with all his speed he can't be everywhere and save everyone even in one city, really only The Flash is the one most capable of that only he doesn't have super hearing, and having to learn to tune out 99% of the cries for help his super-hearing picks up every minute of every day.

Despite all this, Superman was hit with this twice in the mid to late 90s. First was when he was resurrected: he and Lois go to Europe for a nice dinner out. While he was gone, the Toyman kidnaps a bunch of children, including the son of a former co-worker of theirs, and kills them. He's so guilt-ridden by this, he vows never to take another vacation.

The second time had Superman mind-controlled by a super villain in a bid to wear him down by making him Superman all the time. This of course involved ditching his Clark Kent identity to be Superman 24/7 and watch over the entire world. How bad did it get? He shows up in nearly every DC Comic during one particular month, being tossed out of No Man's Land-ravaged Gotham by Batman TWICE, creating an entire army of Superman Robots and finally having the JLA on his ass!

So we can safely say that Superman - Clark Kent = Crazy Superman.

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@dernman said:

I disturbing lack of story quality and character distortion.

Ding ding ding.

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I mean over in Marvel, take a look at Daredevil who no longer has a secret identity.... This is how he handled it for basically ALL of the time up until the arc before Secret Wars started.

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Well OK that's more of a joke but Matt Murdock handles it in a more.... Logical sense. It's basically

"Hey you're Daredevil!"

"No I'm not."

"Yeah you are! Everyone knows it!"

"Am I in the costume now? Right this second?"

"Uh... No?"

"Then I'm not Daredevil."

Matt makes a clear distinction between him being well... Daredevil and Matt Murdock. In the costume? Daredevil. Out of it? Matt Murdock. And? Nothing... Really... Changed. Like LITERALLY nothing changed much if any.

I'm not saying ALL superheroes have to have secret identities but... Honestly I think in cases like with Superman Truth? Where EVERYONE now knows Clark Kent is Superman? Just have Clark literally act as if nothing has changed. I mean let's look at this logically... The Daily Planet gets targeted a LOT anyway... If anything him having a public ID just saves time for all involved. Does it lose some of the charm? Yes but... Honestly just imagine Clark going about his daily life, glasses and everything, constantly not even entertaining anyone's idea he's Superman despite them already knowing.

And he'd be right... He's not in the costume at the moment, ergo? Not technically Superman.

Keep in mind I'm not crazy about the public ID and how it's being handled, but there are WAYS to make it work and be interesting.... Also I consider Earth One to be the primary universe anyway so what do I care... Seriously Earth-0 is the main earth.... WHO STARTS COUNTING AT ZERO?!?!

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I've always said that even a modern day take on Greg as the Vigilante would be an excellent idea. We've got movies like Mad Max which are Westerns that just happen to be set at the end of the world in Australia yet? Beat for beat match a Spaghetti Western to a T in basically ALL of them plot and tone wise. No Country for Old Men? Considered a Western as well.

Or the TV show Justified. It's set in the present day, and main character will never be seen without his cowboy hat. The show features many quick-draw gunfights. However, it also draws attention to how weird this trope can look to bystanders, with its protagonist being given endless amounts of crap both for his hat and for his general "cowboy sheriff" mentality that REALLY clashes with modern law enforcement... Yet proves so effective he's not fired because of it.

Or heck, The Walking Dead series in general is basically a modern western set in the backdrop of a zombie apocalypse. Settlers moving from one dangerous place to another trying to find a place to settle down and not just survive but thrive.... That's a Western. Or the other AMC big seller, Breaking Bad. Set in New Mexico, is a story of power and corruption featuring gunfights, stalemates, showdowns, deserts, Indian reservations, and even a train robbery. The criminals in the show are essentially Western outlaws who use modern technology and make money through the modern-day drug trade.

Really if you look at it like this Westerns as a genre never went away, they just adapted to meet a broader viewership but? They're still around.

And the point I'm trying to make? There should be NO QUESTION that Greg Saunders as the Vigilante can be done in a modern setting with the same cowboy theme to him. Give him a comic series! Hell give him a show! I'd watch it!!

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@imperialwizard: Eh, mostly just messing around, but my point that even now they keep TRYING to make him like Superman even to the point of REDOING THE ORIGIN TO BE MORE LIKE SUPERMAN'S THAN EVER BEFORE..... Still stands. Also my point of no one can honestly say they like Goku and not Superman since... No Superman? No Goku.

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#10  Edited By Smart_Dork_Dude

@imperialwizard:

While Goku is far from a bad guy in the original Japanese, the English dub tends to play-up his heroic side while somewhat downplaying his less noble aspects. A prominent example is after the fight with Vegeta during the Saiyan Saga, when Goku convinces Krillin to spare Vegeta's life; in most versions of the English dub, wanting to give Vegeta the same chance for a Heel-Face Turn that Piccolo got, whereas in the original Japanese, Goku does so only because he found the fight with Vegeta exciting and wanted to fight him again even at the risk of the Earth's safety, which he openly admits is a selfish desire.

According to Toriyama this holds true even for the original Japanese anime. He was dissatisfied by the “righteous hero”-type portrayal the anime gave him. In the manga, Goku is supposed to be depicted as someone who doesn't fight for others, but fights for himself to get stronger. He wanted to depict someone who isn't a classic hero and can even be seen as not being a good person because of his selfish desire (a little bit of poison that sneaks through his character as Toriyama puts it).

However, even going purely off the manga, this depiction of Goku is lost in translation since most of Goku's motives pertain to protecting or avenging his family and friends, and he does help people he barely knows when it didn't completely relate to fighting; like storming Muscle Tower to repay Snow from saving him from freezing to death and avenging Upa's father who was murdered by Tao before taking down the Red Ribbon Army, and getting the Dragon Balls to revive him. He wanted to fight the Saiyans not because they were powerful, but because they were going to murder everyone he knew and his need to protect everyone also kept him going when Frieza overpowered him. He also didn't want to help fight Buu, despite having the power to do so, because he didn't want his friends to depend on him to save them, which if he was completely selfish he wouldn't care and fight Buu for the sake of having a good battle. It could be said that Toriyama's original intentions for Goku evolve into something slightly different as Character Development took over. Goku is a hero with a good heart, but he has selfish and personal motives that can override his better judgement.

In short, STILL very similar to Superman.