The New 52 Pros and Cons List

Pro: New universe with none of the bad stories of the previous one

Con: New universe with none of the good stories of the previous one

Pro: Superman having a more believable way of concealing his costume in his street clothes.

Con: Superman's costume is armor.

Con: Fortress of Solitude is no longer in the arctic thus taking away that classic location

Pro: Changing Captain Marvel's name to Shazam thus finally ending the decades long explanation of his name, giving a reason why he can say his name without changing, and finally the hood on his costume makes him look more mystical.

Con: Billy Batson is not a likable kid and is basically a little snot

Con: Shazam is not an accronym for Solomon, Hercules, Achilles, Zeus, Atlas, and Mercury anymore

Con: Captain Thunder is a far more fitting name change for Captain Marvel

Pro: Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus

Con: Could have been worked in without the reboot

Pro: Aquaman is still a badass

Con: Everyone in the comic treats him like crap and think he's useless when they have no reason to

Pro: Caitlin Fairchild, Grifter, and most recently Mr. Majestic, three of my favorite Wildstorm characters being introduced into the DCU

Con: Grifter's series sucks and Majestic is no longer anything like himself.

Pro: Making a new Teen Titans team

Con: Getting rid of all the original members of the Teen Titans, thus destroying one of the greatest teams in comics

Con: Removing the original Teen Titans members means removing the crucial events in their lives that shaped who they were

Pro: Earth 2's premise of a modern day Justice Society is highly original and interesting

Con: Massive punch in the face to the original characters in every facet imaginable

Pro: Batman's corner of the universe staying basically the same

Con: Batman's entire history as well as the history of his supporting cast crammed into a 5 year time frame.

Con: This means Batman went through four Robins in just under 5 years when it should have been 10 at the least.

Con: Mr. Freeze is just another random crazy guy that just happens to have ice powers

Pro: Justice League Dark because it was the most awesome thing DC has put out in recent years.

Con: It could have easily been done without the reboot.

Pro: Red Hood and the Outlaws

Con: Starfire, a character I have always wanted to like OUTSIDE the Teen Titans animated version(Seriously I love that version of her) is the biggest slut in comics now

Con: Lobo is no longer the universes ultimate badass and is just lame now. What happened to the Main Man?!?!??!

Pro: The New 52 is like Ultimate Marvel, having many good and interesting ideas.

Con: Many of these good ideas could have been worked in without the reboot and are only good ideas on paper. There's also no regular DC universe to fall back on unlike what Marvel has.

32 Comments
32 Comments
Posted by Perezite

Pro: New universe with none of the bad stories of the previous one

Con: New universe with none of the good stories of the previous one

Pro: Superman having a more believable way of concealing his costume in his street clothes.

Con: Superman's costume is armor.

Con: Fortress of Solitude is no longer in the arctic thus taking away that classic location

Pro: Changing Captain Marvel's name to Shazam thus finally ending the decades long explanation of his name, giving a reason why he can say his name without changing, and finally the hood on his costume makes him look more mystical.

Con: Billy Batson is not a likable kid and is basically a little snot

Con: Shazam is not an accronym for Solomon, Hercules, Achilles, Zeus, Atlas, and Mercury anymore

Pro: Wonder Woman is the daughter of Zeus

Con: Could have been worked in without the reboot

Pro: Aquaman is still a badass

Con: Everyone in the comic treats him like crap and think he's useless when they have no reason to

Pro: Caitlin Fairchild, Grifter, and most recently Mr. Majestic, three of my favorite Wildstorm characters being introduced into the DCU

Con: Grifter's series sucks and Majestic is no longer anything like himself.

Pro: Making a new Teen Titans team

Con: Getting rid of all the original members of the Teen Titans, thus destroying one of the greatest teams in comics

Con: Removing the original Teen Titans members means removing the crucial events in their lives that shaped who they were

Pro: Earth 2's premise of a modern day Justice Society is highly original and interesting

Con: Massive punch in the face to the original characters in every facet imaginable

Pro: Batman's corner of the universe staying basically the same

Con: Batman's entire history as well as the history of his supporting cast crammed into a 5 year time frame.

Con: This means Batman went through four Robins in just under 5 years when it should have been 10 at the least.

Pro: Justice League Dark because it was the most awesome thing DC has put out in recent years.

Con: It could have easily been done without the reboot.

Pro: Red Hood and the Outlaws

Con: Starfire, a character I have always wanted to like OUTSIDE the Teen Titans animated version(Seriously I love that version of her) is the biggest slut in comics now

Con: Lobo is no longer the universes ultimate badass and is just lame now. What happened to the Main Man?!?!??!

Pro: The New 52 is like Ultimate Marvel, having many good and interesting ideas.

Con: Many of these good ideas could have been worked in without the reboot and are only good ideas on paper. There's also no regular DC universe to fall back on unlike what Marvel has.

How is it a Pro for Wonder Woman to be a child of Zeus?

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@perezite: Means more powers as was clearly shown

Edited by Perezite
Posted by Perezite

@perezite: Means more powers as was clearly shown

Say, how do I get you into a conversation I'm having via PM with someone else on this site involving a personal project?

Edited by Rich711

Wait, what?! Shazam is not an acronym anymore? What is it? I have been reading it but honestly I kind of zone out while reading it, it's been pretty slow and lame.

Is Jeff Lemire's run on JL Dark much better than Milligans? I read the first 5 issues and did not like it very much.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@rich711 said:

Wait, what?! Shazam is not an acronym anymore? What is it? I have been reading it but honestly I kind of zone out while reading it, it's been pretty slow and lame.

Is Jeff Lemire's run on JL Dark much better than Milligans? I read the first 5 issues and did not like it very much.

It's not even the name of the wizard anymore!! It's just a word now.

I couldn't tell you. I liked all of it pretty well. That is up until I dropped every DC book pertaining to the New 52. Yeah..... I'm still extremely bitter. Only reason I didn't drop it sooner was because Young Justice provided a buffer where I could get classic DC action and characterization without New 52 influence

Posted by Rich711

It's not even the name of the wizard anymore!! It's just a word now.

I couldn't tell you. I liked all of it pretty well. That is up until I dropped every DC book pertaining to the New 52. Yeah..... I'm still extremely bitter. Only reason I didn't drop it sooner was because Young Justice provided a buffer where I could get classic DC action and characterization without New 52 influence

I feel your pain. I dropped off DC around issue 5 of everything, the new toilet seat logo really epitomized DC choosing to flush 20 years of continuity down the drain. ...but I picked everything up again a year later. I can only read so much Image and Dark Horse. I need my classic capes.

Posted by mpierce2690

@rich711 said:

Is Jeff Lemire's run on JL Dark much better than Milligans? I read the first 5 issues and did not like it very much.

Lemire's run on JL Dark is one of the top books that DC is printing right now. The last arc before the current Swamp Thing/Flash one was a weak point, but until then, it was the best Justice League book being written for a long while.

Edited by mpierce2690

Con: New universe with none of the good stories of the previous one

There's still the vast majority of the good stories, especially in Batman and GL, and they've hinted pretty hard at some of the better Superman stories recently.

Con: Fortress of Solitude is no longer in the arctic thus taking away that classic location

Still in the Arctic. I don't know what Grant Morrison's deal was, but it's definitely still in the Arctic, for sure. Almost the entire H'el on Earth arc took place there.

Pro: Making a new Teen Titans team

Con: Getting rid of all the original members of the Teen Titans, thus destroying one of the greatest teams in comics

Con: Removing the original Teen Titans members means removing the crucial events in their lives that shaped who they were

Dick Grayson isn't a teen anymore, but they've been heavily implying that there was some kind of team in the past. Roy Harper has mentioned it a few times in RHAO.

Just a few things I thought I should correct.

At the end of the day, whether we want to admit it or not, the DCU had been painted into a corner by the end. When the only new stories we can come up with are new sidekicks or killing the character in question, we've got problems. The last big revamp was Green Lantern, and they had to retcon the crap out of it. I will always love and cherish the pre-Flashpoint continuity, but the truth is, we have a really grand opportunity to tell stories we couldn't have before without huge retcons that just kind of jumble the continuity.

Wonder Woman has never been better. Flash has never been better. Batman and Green Lantern continue to thrive, though they could have used with some retcon trimming of their own with the New 52. I'm just waiting for Superman to jump on board and get done right, because slowly but surely, the New 52 is becoming kind of awesome.

We just have to give it time. Look at Green Arrow. It started off sucky, but found the right writer, and now I can't think of a time when I've been more interested in him. As the books find the right writers and the right tone, this is going to be great.

Posted by Perezite

@smart_dork_dude said:

Con: New universe with none of the good stories of the previous one

There's still the vast majority of the good stories, especially in Batman and GL, and they've hinted pretty hard at some of the better Superman stories recently.

@smart_dork_dude said:

Con: Fortress of Solitude is no longer in the arctic thus taking away that classic location

Still in the Arctic. I don't know what Grant Morrison's deal was, but it's definitely still in the Arctic, for sure. Almost the entire H'el on Earth arc took place there.

@smart_dork_dude said:

Pro: Making a new Teen Titans team

Con: Getting rid of all the original members of the Teen Titans, thus destroying one of the greatest teams in comics

Con: Removing the original Teen Titans members means removing the crucial events in their lives that shaped who they were

Dick Grayson isn't a teen anymore, but they've been heavily implying that there was some kind of team in the past. Roy Harper has mentioned it a few times in RHAO.

Just a few things I thought I should correct.

At the end of the day, whether we want to admit it or not, the DCU had been painted into a corner by the end. When the only new stories we can come up with are new sidekicks or killing the character in question, we've got problems. The last big revamp was Green Lantern, and they had to retcon the crap out of it. I will always love and cherish the pre-Flashpoint continuity, but the truth is, we have a really grand opportunity to tell stories we couldn't have before without huge retcons that just kind of jumble the continuity.

Wonder Woman has never been better. Flash has never been better. Batman and Green Lantern continue to thrive, though they could have used with some retcon trimming of their own with the New 52. I'm just waiting for Superman to jump on board and get done right, because slowly but surely, the New 52 is becoming kind of awesome.

We just have to give it time. Look at Green Arrow. It started off sucky, but found the right writer, and now I can't think of a time when I've been more interested in him. As the books find the right writers and the right tone, this is going to be great.

Question: why the fuck couldn't DC just make their own equivalent of the Ultimate Universe then and leaved regular, mainstream continuity out of your so called (and wasted, and will CONTINUE to be wasted) opportunity? Why the fuck did DC have to alienate it's loyal audience with a publicity stunt like this? Because make no mistake, this ENTIRE THING has been one big publicity stunt, and to hear you say Wonder Woman's never been better (at the cost of her back-story, one of the things that made her unique and really solidified her relationship with the Greek gods and turning her into just another bastard off-spring of Zeus (I.E. boring for her)) really just makes me wanna pinch my new born son.

Posted by ChiSoxRox

Pros: Retaining Batwoman from before the relaunch and getting Barbara Gordon back in cape while retaining the Oracle history.

Cons: Stephanie Brown and Cass Cain seemingly retconned out of existence. Also, Catwoman's zipper problems.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@mpierce2690: Look even I'll admit that a reboot was needed. However the ONLY goal of the reboot should have been this. Getting rid of ALL the bad or convoluted stories that cluttered the universe. Amazons Attack? Gone. Countdown? Gone. Cry for Justice? Gone. Every story arc that could and SHOULD be forgotten should have been removed. Then they could tell these new stories in a universe free and clear from the bogged down old universe, keeping all the characters the same of course.

Look I can handle change, in fact there are indeed some changes I'm happy with! Barbara Gordon being Batgirl again AND having her history as Oracle intact? Love it! Hawkman having a drastically more simplified origin and awesome new powers? Love it! Sinestro being forced into being a Green Lantern again? Love it! Superman spending his first few years as a strongman vigilante like he was in the Golden Age? Love it!

I have a few other things I love about the New 52, but they still don't blind me to the fact that it's a HORRIBLE move. It had potential sure. It had LOADS of potential to be something great, but it failed miserably on the most crucial of elements. Staying true to all their characters. The ONLY character who is consistently like he was in the pre-New 52 is Batman. I'm not surprised though since Batman is DC's golden boy. Okay I love Batman, but really sometimes I hate that he's become the one thing DC revolves around

Posted by sinestro_GL

Here we go again...can't we just enjoy the stories?

Posted by KnightRise

Con: Starfire, a character I have always wanted to like OUTSIDE the Teen Titans animated version(Seriously I love that version of her) is the biggest slut in comics now

Stop right there. You must have ignored any of the events after issue 3. There is nothing "slutty" about her. Her story and reasons for faking amnesia are building in each of the past subsequent issues. If you were hoping for a character identical to her animated appearence, she wasn't really like that even pre-New 52.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@knightrise said:

@smart_dork_dude said:

Con: Starfire, a character I have always wanted to like OUTSIDE the Teen Titans animated version(Seriously I love that version of her) is the biggest slut in comics now

Stop right there. You must have ignored any of the events after issue 3. There is nothing "slutty" about her. Her story and reasons for faking amnesia are building in each of the past subsequent issues. If you were hoping for a character identical to her animated appearence, she wasn't really like that even pre-New 52.

Actually I had to drop it due to money after issue two.

I'm also fully aware of the animated thing, but I can't help it if I feel that's a stronger character.

Posted by KnightRise

@knightrise said:

@smart_dork_dude said:

Con: Starfire, a character I have always wanted to like OUTSIDE the Teen Titans animated version(Seriously I love that version of her) is the biggest slut in comics now

Stop right there. You must have ignored any of the events after issue 3. There is nothing "slutty" about her. Her story and reasons for faking amnesia are building in each of the past subsequent issues. If you were hoping for a character identical to her animated appearence, she wasn't really like that even pre-New 52.

Actually I had to drop it due to money after issue two.

I'm also fully aware of the animated thing, but I can't help it if I feel that's a stronger character.

I figured. Very few people that stayed on the series think that she's promiscuous and airheaded. Which makes me question the justification of some of your cons.

Posted by mpierce2690

@perezite said:

Question: why the fuck couldn't DC just make their own equivalent of the Ultimate Universe then and leaved regular, mainstream continuity out of your so called (and wasted, and will CONTINUE to be wasted) opportunity? Why the fuck did DC have to alienate it's loyal audience with a publicity stunt like this? Because make no mistake, this ENTIRE THING has been one big publicity stunt, and to hear you say Wonder Woman's never been better (at the cost of her back-story, one of the things that made her unique and really solidified her relationship with the Greek gods and turning her into just another bastard off-spring of Zeus (I.E. boring for her)) really just makes me wanna pinch my new born son.

That might have been a better way to go, but then it really would be an exact copy of what Marvel did. I'm not saying it wasn't a publicity stunt in part. It was obvious geared to give people an opportunity to jump on. It's kind of intimidating for new readers to jump on with 20 years of continuity in their way. I know that's how a lot of my friends felt about reading comics, and a big reason about why I stopped collecting issues until the New 52. There is a ton I miss about the old continuity, but I think the elements I miss will appear in time, so I'm willing to be patient because I'm excited about the new possibilities.

As for Wonder Woman, I'm not sure what back-story you're referring to unless you mean the clay story, which has always been kind of just... weird. Which is definitely saying something in a comic book world. I love her new relationship with the Greek Gods, their new roles, presentation, the relationships amongst them. They feel so real and awesome with their modernized approach. And she feels like a warrior instead of a ballerina. This is the Wonder Woman that I've always wanted. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Look even I'll admit that a reboot was needed. However the ONLY goal of the reboot should have been this. Getting rid of ALL the bad or convoluted stories that cluttered the universe. Amazons Attack? Gone. Countdown? Gone. Cry for Justice? Gone. Every story arc that could and SHOULD be forgotten should have been removed. Then they could tell these new stories in a universe free and clear from the bogged down old universe, keeping all the characters the same of course.

Look I can handle change, in fact there are indeed some changes I'm happy with! Barbara Gordon being Batgirl again AND having her history as Oracle intact? Love it! Hawkman having a drastically more simplified origin and awesome new powers? Love it! Sinestro being forced into being a Green Lantern again? Love it! Superman spending his first few years as a strongman vigilante like he was in the Golden Age? Love it!

I have a few other things I love about the New 52, but they still don't blind me to the fact that it's a HORRIBLE move. It had potential sure. It had LOADS of potential to be something great, but it failed miserably on the most crucial of elements. Staying true to all their characters. The ONLY character who is consistently like he was in the pre-New 52 is Batman. I'm not surprised though since Batman is DC's golden boy. Okay I love Batman, but really sometimes I hate that he's become the one thing DC revolves around

I feel like we're going to get those good stories, done a little better and a little more modern, in good time. They've been hinting at the Death of Superman pretty hard in the recently months, so I'm thinking they might redo it and make it even better. I think we'll see some of the best stories unfold again, we've just got to give it time. Some of the characters are pretty far off, I won't deny that, I was barely making it through Green Arrow, and then I got the Green Arrow I'd been waiting for. I feel like that's going to happen as writers shuffle around and stories get fleshed out. Fan response is definitely going to help in that regard as time goes by. Every character has rough patches when new or different writers come on and try and figure them out. That's just part of comic books.

Posted by Sinisteri

Pros- reading more fringe characters like Animal Man and Swamp Thing.

Cons- no longer following most of DCU

Someone mentioned it was weird that Wonder Woman was made of clay infused with a soul brought to life by the gods. Considering gods were formed from the sea and cracked skull of other gods, Wonder Woman's conception actually fit just fine into well established mythological origins... unless classic mythology needs a New 52 reboot too.

Any fan of DC is not unfamiliar or unreceptive to a reboot in general. DC has employed at least 4 major reboots. Overuse of the technique does hurt the integrity of the DC's fictional universe overall and shows a lack of confidence in the characters & established work.

I've enjoyed the two major cartoons which played loose with characters and history, but the integrity of the DC characters stayed mostly intact. The essential essence of the characters which the casual audience expects were in place.

The consistent problem with DC reboots(especially this one) is the inconsistency. Continuity is created the minute the second panel exists, so there is no escaping it without insulting the intelligence of your audience.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@sinisteri said:

Pros- reading more fringe characters like Animal Man and Swamp Thing.

Cons- no longer following most of DCU

Someone mentioned it was weird that Wonder Woman was made of clay infused with a soul brought to life by the gods. Considering gods were formed from the sea and cracked skull of other gods, Wonder Woman's conception actually fit just fine into well established mythological origins... unless classic mythology needs a New 52 reboot too.

Any fan of DC is not unfamiliar or unreceptive to a reboot in general. DC has employed at least 4 major reboots. Overuse of the technique does hurt the integrity of the DC's fictional universe overall and shows a lack of confidence in the characters & established work.

I've enjoyed the two major cartoons which played loose with characters and history, but the integrity of the DC characters stayed mostly intact. The essential essence of the characters which the casual audience expects were in place.

The consistent problem with DC reboots(especially this one) is the inconsistency. Continuity is created the minute the second panel exists, so there is no escaping it without insulting the intelligence of your audience.

I always say Diana being made out of a clay statue as a reference to Galatea who was the original Greek myth about a statue being given life.

Anyway the ONLY reason I like the idea that she's a daughter of Zeus is that it seems to mean she's gained greater powers. In the previous universe she was said to be a NEAR match for Superman in strength and of course was less powerful. The New 52 version seems like she could very well be AS powerful as Superman if not more so possibly. Only reason I'm behind this since Wonder Woman does deserve to at the very least be Superman's equal.

Also I know DC has done major reboots in the past, but none of them have THIS level of change!!!But yeah DC has had trouble with continuity for years. Back in the Silver Age when Marvel was doing actual story arcs, DC was still mainly doing one-shot comics!

Edited by Sinisteri

And the question remains has the change been worth it. Things seem so disconnected and chaotic.

If the only way to tell a DC character's story is to "re-create" the character then that is very sad. It says the best any writer can do is "update or retell" a past good story but in his way. Cause retelling is marketed as fresh. It's a sad cop out.

Wonder Woman basically stole Cassie/Wonder Girl's lineage/origin point. Same could be said for Earth 2 GL. That's not fresh and creative-- it's called switching parts.

I do love JL Dark though!

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@sinisteri said:

And the question remains has the change been worth it. Things seem so disconnected and chaotic.

If the only way to tell a DC character's story is to "re-create" the character then that is very sad. It says the best any writer can do is "update or retell" a past good story but in his way. Cause retelling is marketed as fresh. It's a sad cop out.

Wonder Woman basically stole Cassie/Wonder Girl's lineage/origin point. Same could be said for Earth 2 GL. That's not fresh and creative-- it's called switching parts.

I do love JL Dark though!

It wasn't worth it.

Like I said, I knew they needed a reboot. I was actually HOPING for one to fix all the mess that was the pre-New 52 because I will admit it did have problems that only a reboot could fix. But they went TOO far!!!!

I think THE perfect example of what the New 52 should have been is the Young Justice animated universe. It's very much like the classic DCU, but there are obvious differences as well. It felt very familiar, but still fresh and new with the feeling that it could go to places that we didn't think of in the regular DC universe. I mean Roy Harper being cloned and having one as Red Arrow and having Lian as a daughter while the other is the completely whacked out Arsenal? Highly original and FAR better than what DC did with that whole Rise of Arsenal debacle.

They even had the Justice Society of America in flashbacks, all in classic costumes and in the 40's or maybe 50's possibly 60's from the looks of it. Anyway, my point is that they had a perfect new universe. Why couldn't DC have used THAT universe as a template?

Posted by colonyofcells

Superman : I like the armor costume of superman but it needs to look like real armor instead of spandex armor. I also prefer some armor mask to solve the old dumb disguise problem or at least cover the eyes like using a visor. I prefer to get rid of kryptonite and all of the other weaknesses. Just say Superman can be knocked out by anything powerful such as kryptonite energy, magic energy, etc. same as what can happen to other strong guys like Orion. Batman : I prefer to revert back to silver age continuity with Dick Grayson as the only Robin.

Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude

@colonyofcells said:

Superman : I like the armor costume of superman but it needs to look like real armor instead of spandex armor. I also prefer some armor mask to solve the old dumb disguise problem or at least cover the eyes like using a visor. I prefer to get rid of kryptonite and all of the other weaknesses. Just say Superman can be knocked out by anything powerful such as kryptonite energy, magic energy, etc. same as what can happen to other strong guys like Orion.

So basically remove 75% of what makes him Superman? Please leave troll, you will find no sustenance on my blog.

Edited by CrazyScarecrow

Nice blog :D Very much of it I agree with are problems for New 52. The only con I didn't agree with was Superman's costume being armor. I didn't really care that they changed his costume into a armor. Though nothing beats the original icon design!

Posted by Marco_Kidd

Here we go again...can't we just enjoy the stories?

Posted by Marco_Kidd

And the question remains has the change been worth it. Things seem so disconnected and chaotic.

It only seems disconnected and chaotic if you only read a small amount of the books and base you knowledge on every other series on having read maybe one or two issues here and there. i Read all of the books with the exception of 3 and i don't find things disconnected and chaotic with maybe the exeption of a small mistake by a writer once in a while.

Posted by danhimself

there are 6 good things about the New 52

1. Justice League Dark

2. people are finally respecting Aquaman

3. Snyder's Swamp Thing

4. Lemeire's Animal Man

5. Snyder's Batman

6. Azzarello's Wonder Woman

all of these could have been done without the reboot...in fact none of these things were dependent on the reboot at all...the only thing here that needed a reboot was Wonder Woman's origin and guess what they dam^ near rebooted Wonder Woman right before Flashpoint so any changes to her origin could have been done then

Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude

@danhimself said:

there are 6 good things about the New 52

1. Justice League Dark

2. people are finally respecting Aquaman

3. Snyder's Swamp Thing

4. Lemeire's Animal Man

5. Snyder's Batman

6. Azzarello's Wonder Woman

all of these could have been done without the reboot...in fact none of these things were dependent on the reboot at all...the only thing here that needed a reboot was Wonder Woman's origin and guess what they dam^ near rebooted Wonder Woman right before Flashpoint so any changes to her origin could have been done then

While those are good, I DO think some of the changes, as frivolous as they may be, do have some things going for them. However for everything they have going for them there's two or three things going against them

Posted by danhimself

@danhimself said:

there are 6 good things about the New 52

1. Justice League Dark

2. people are finally respecting Aquaman

3. Snyder's Swamp Thing

4. Lemeire's Animal Man

5. Snyder's Batman

6. Azzarello's Wonder Woman

all of these could have been done without the reboot...in fact none of these things were dependent on the reboot at all...the only thing here that needed a reboot was Wonder Woman's origin and guess what they dam^ near rebooted Wonder Woman right before Flashpoint so any changes to her origin could have been done then

While those are good, I DO think some of the changes, as frivolous as they may be, do have some things going for them. However for everything they have going for them there's two or three things going against them

I agree....some of the changes were good but I would say that at least 75% of them were horrible

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@danhimself said:

@smart_dork_dude said:

@danhimself said:

there are 6 good things about the New 52

1. Justice League Dark

2. people are finally respecting Aquaman

3. Snyder's Swamp Thing

4. Lemeire's Animal Man

5. Snyder's Batman

6. Azzarello's Wonder Woman

all of these could have been done without the reboot...in fact none of these things were dependent on the reboot at all...the only thing here that needed a reboot was Wonder Woman's origin and guess what they dam^ near rebooted Wonder Woman right before Flashpoint so any changes to her origin could have been done then

While those are good, I DO think some of the changes, as frivolous as they may be, do have some things going for them. However for everything they have going for them there's two or three things going against them

I agree....some of the changes were good but I would say that at least 75% of them were horrible

Agreed. Some of them made sense and were good business decisions like changing Captain Marvel's name. Personally I would have preferred Captain Thunder since DC used that name BEFORE they got the rights to him with a parody character for Superman to fight, they used the name Captain Thunder AGAIN in Flashpoint, and finally while they DO clear up the reason why he can say Shazam and not turn back to Billy Batson it also makes things messy for Black Adam as then there's going to be confusion over why he's shouting his archenemy's name!!!!!

Posted by ChiSoxRox

@danhimself: J. H. Williams' Batwoman too... which is a direct continuation of her pre-Flashpoint Detective storyline. In her series, it's like the reboot never even happened.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@chisoxrox: Which just furthers the point that the New 52 is just pointless and irritating