SlimJ87D's forum posts

#1 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingmark14: grundy has no parallels to cap whatsoever.

#2 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a hard topic to gauge.

Bruce trained people that lived with him and spent tons of time with him, he adopted these people.that being said, he trained them very well.

Captain America only lived with Bucky for 3 years, land that's the longest person he trained possibly. But let's not forget Sam Wilson. This is a street thug who was older and past his peak, but Cap actually trained him to be a good h2h combatant capable of taking down multiple Russian mercentre's on his own.

I would say they are both accomplished sensei. I think Batman might be the better mentor though because of the bond he holds with his proteges

#3 Edited by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: correct, he also helped found department x but not much elaboration was done on that. Something went bad with the Russians and Canadians so Russia sent the winter soldier to destroy the weapon x program and it's revealed that's how wolverine was set free.

So bucky is:

1 year with William Esner and all of Steve tutors.

3 years with Steve

10 years with red room. Under red room he helped weapon x start up, trained Russian assassin's and even the black widow.

The whole weapon x thing I'm confused about, I need to research it as they are statements from Bucky and Logan in Logan series.

Steve was around the 35. When he was thawed he was around 22 years old and spiderman was in high school, spiderman has completed a bs degree and even a master's in edition to a few years of work. 10 years had passed.

After dimension z, steve aged an additional 12 years.

#4 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: you know prior to taking the drug, he low as one of dozens of sss candidate, many of them were strong soldier but he was able to keep up with them and fight against them. One by one they began to go insane till Cap was the only one left.

He trained hard whith all his illments. The movie tried to portray a nice version of his training, it was actually very intense.

#5 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: bucky trained with Steve from 16 to 18 or 19. The rest of his training came from the red room, which is almost 10 years because he's about 28 to 30 now. From 15 to 16 he was trained overseas by William Essa 9 the SAS who is one of the best h2h guys in history.

So Steve started him off but he trained with many other red room.

#6 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@i_like_swords: @slimj87d: I'll rewatch The Incredible Hulk but IIRC he was dancing around Hulk and was only tagged because of his arrogance.

Yeah, the whole Hulk encounter was actually terrible. he just walks up to Hulk shooting at him, does a flip and shoots at him, and then does another Flip. I don't think he actually ever threw a punch and connected with anyone trhoughout the whole movie until he becomes the abomination, and he still lost against Hulk, someone with no H2H training due to him and banner having different personalities.

The only H2H you have to gauge Blonsky from is when he went H2H with Hulk as abomination, that's about it.

#7 Edited by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America should take this.

@i_like_swords said:

@frozen said:

He can't put Blonsky down.

I'm sure repeated blows to the skull with his shield would do the job. Yeah, he healed from Hulk punching him, but that was a showing of survivability, not what he can tank in a fight. We don't know the upper limits of his durability where he doesn't get hospitalized, so we can only assume Cap can knock him out.

And it's not like Blonsky has shown a tremendous amount of hand-to-hand skill.

I agree with this, the only thing he did was a misty flip to avoid one of Hulks hits. Cap showed more agility when he took down the Quinjet. Blonksy hardly showed any H2H feats at all.

#8 Edited by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@slimj87d said:

@frozen: The last thing I'm going to say is that you can't use ABC logic here either.

Steve and Bucky have different fighting styles and advantages, they hardly have any parallels besides they can both run really fast and can kick and punch people feet away.

It's not ABC logic. We are comparing the showings of each film, which are limited.

Bucky doesn't have a knife for round 1, and for round 2 Skull has his HYDRA-gun.

Bucky has his metal arm for round 1, Steve doesn't have a metal arm like Bucky.

Bucky has Steve's shield for round 2 in addition to his metal arm bracing it.The Red Skull doesn't have as good combat feats with his hydra pistol or gun as Bucky does. Bucky performed some advanced techniques of karv maga with his handgun firing combat.

I won't have time to participate in this debate due to time constraints, so those are my last two cents.

#9 Posted by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: The last thing I'm going to say is that you can't use ABC logic here either.

Steve and Bucky have different fighting styles and advantages, they hardly have any parallels besides they can both run really fast and can kick and punch people feet away.

#10 Edited by SlimJ87D (8913 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen said:

@slimj87d said:

@frozen said:

@slimj87d said:

@frozen said:

@slimj87d said:

@frozen: Steve got the choke hold and finished Bucky off because Bucky turned his back though. Bucky was also trying to multitask at that point, Steve was on one side, the chip was at his other and he went with his main mission.

I don't know what would have happened if the fight continued, Cap had a gunshot wound from my memory, had a stab wound and multiple cuts on knees, shoulders and wrist while Bucky had only received blunt force.

As for this fight, my opinion would be that ABC logic doesn't really work. They both fight differently. Up close and personal, Steve tried to fight with his shield while Bucky is fighting with a shield and knife, two deadly combinations for extreme close quarters combat. Along with that he has a metal arm.

Red Skull is going to have a TOUGH time knocking Bucky off balance seeing that Bucky has similar physicals to Steve, but he'll be holding the shield with his metal arm.

I imagine Red SKull trying to get past the shield, but he's not going to take that shield when a metal arm his holding it and a knife is in Bucky's other hand.

I actually think Bucky takes this fight because he has something that Steve doesn't. He has a knife that he is extremely proficient in using, and we know he can handle and strike with the shield well seeing that when he disarmed Steve, he hit him 4 or more times in rapid succession within less than 2 seconds.

Bucky had his back turned after Bucky had thrown Cap's shield at the back of his head and stabbed him repeatedly. Cap's multitasking literally meant he had to fight off Bucky and then go to operate the computer device. Both Cap and Bucky struggle over the chip, but then Cap lifts him and finishes him.

The first round is PURE H2H. That means no knife. To which I think Skull's showings were better. Cap wanted to kill Skull and Skull overpowered him.

He only has his equipment in round 2, to which Skull has his HYDRA gun. HYDRA guns travel much faster than bullets, Mach 2 is reasonable. Has Bucky shown himself to be capable of reacting at Mach 2? I do not recall so.

As shown in the video I posted, Steve is capable of running and then reacting while the shots are firing at him. Those shots will be too fast for Bucky and will incinerate him if landed.

Before we move on to discuss anything else, do we both agree that the fight between Steve and Bucky is pretty much inclusive?

I think it's more conclusive than their previous fight, which is inclusive.

So you don't think Bucky trying to go after the chip and Steve finishing him off there and choking him out left the fight inclusive?

No, because there's a few seconds where Steve struggles with him to get the chip as he jumps to the floor to grab Bucky's arm and then overpowers him, considering it's the same arm Bucky stabbed him in.

Bucky went for the chip. He was no longer facing Steve. Steve still have a view of Bucky's complete body. At this time, Bucky was trying to multitask, he was trying to destroy the chip and fight Steve. So yes. We can and will ahve to agree to disagree.

I agree, Steve was trying to multitask, but are you also disregarding that Steve had the superior gear in the environment they were fighting in? I can counter with regardless of the arm, it's useless in that narrow of the catwalk when a large diameter of a shield covers the width of the catwalk itself.