World Breaker Hulk – The Immortal Iron Hulk

Before we begin

What insanity is this?

I’m going to be making a comparison between the Iron Fist and World War Hulk.

That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard!

First, let’s just sit back and relax. Now play the song below and open up your imagination.

No thanks. I’m out of here.

Suit yourself. It’s your loss. Now let me begin.

Who and what is an Iron Fist?

The Iron Fist is a chosen warrior from K’un-L’un that has proven himself through various tests in martial arts. This warrior is chosen to harness the energies and powers of a mystical dragon. With this power, the Iron Fist can use its energy to perform various types of lethal striking techniques such as punching through a jet,

knocking down a temple by punching the ground

And karate chopping down a flying battleship.

So far this power has only been shown to increase Danny’s (the current Iron Fist) durability, speed and striking abilities. It acts like a multiplier to his current stats which are of a normal human being. Here are Danny’s stats.

Power Grids
Official Ratings[7]
Intelligence
3
Strength
2
Speed
2
Durability
3
Energy Projection
3
Fighting Skills
6

Source: http://marvel.wikia.com/Official_Handbook_of_the_Marvel_Universe_A-Z_Vol_1_5

Notice how all his stats are rated near the peak of man. Yet his energy projectile rating is rated at a 3. It is because of this energy projectile rating that specializes in amping mostly his strikes that allow him to perform his feats. So how does this relate to the Hulk? Specifically World War Hulk?

Gravage Hulk vs World War Hulk (aka Green Scar Hulk) vs World Breaker Hulk

World War Hulk is just the Gravage Hulk after going through a lot of physical and emotional pain and trauma during the Planet Hulk storyline. There really is no difference in persona, only strength. During and after the Planet Hulk storyline the Gravage Hulk became much stronger and powerful than all his previous incarnations.

So who is World Breaker Hulk?

To cut it short, World Breaker Hulk (WBH) is just World War Hulk (WWH) using his powers to the full extent. In other words he’s just “cutting loose.” It has been hinted time and time again that the Hulk emits gamma radiation and more so when he is angered. World War Hulk is the first Hulk to actually emit so much gamma radiation it becomes a weapon. The first showing of this energy was when he almost sunk the East Coast of the US by taking a mere step which released this devastating power.

To further clarify, take a look at his most updated power grid.

Notice how Hulk now has an energy rating of 5. This is Hulk at his absolute peak so far. This energy projectile rating of 5 directly reflects how angry he is which also coincides with his strength and durability. In this state, his durability and strength rating of 7 are further amplified by his energy projectile of 5. Thus

World War Hulk + Energy Projectile Rating of 5 = World Breaker Hulk

Even before this projectile rating of 5 was released, we saw a peak of this power when he almost sank the seaboard. Go back to that image and notice all the green energy everywhere. Here Savage Hulk almost turns in World War Hulk.

We even got a hint of it when Red Hulk couldn't absorb all the gamma energy out of WWH. It was most likely that WWH created and stored so much gamma energy that Red Hulk couldn't steal it at a rate that WWH was emitting it. He even performs a gamma energized thunderclap that pretty much finishes the Red Hulk off and gives him a bloody nose and mouth.

Now where am I getting at with all this?

World War Hulk – The Immortal Iron Hulk

If Iron Fist’s energy rating of 3 allows a peak human male to knock down temples, uppercut through small ships and karate chop down a flying battle ship, imagine what it allows a Hulk with a strength and durability rating of 7 to do. Of course Hulk is never going to use this power because he can’t control it like Danny can. But he can actually summon and use this power anytime he wants or needs it. But look at the collateral damage it causes.

Here he causes a giant crater when he summons this power.

Here he destroys the East Side of Las Vegas just by summoning this power.

Just by powering up in this state you can see the devastation and collateral damage it causes. This is the reason why WWH never uses this power, because of the dangers it holds. But don’t think he can't summon this power when he wants as he did above and he did so again later.

Above, you can see him telling Doctor Strange that he’s going to cut loose and use this power again. What happens? Red She Hulk and WWH trade a blow that indirectly blows up a planet. Indirectly meaning they didn’t even need to touch the planet, the explosion was caused by the gamma energized sonic boom from their blow.

The special thing to note above is that collateral damage didn’t happen when he used his WBH powers. This is the most interesting part to me as he unleashed and channeled that power when he traded the blow with Red She Hulk. It makes me curios to see if in the future through training if WWH could actually channel and use this energy just like the Iron Fist. I highly doubt it though as it would make him overpowered than he already is.

But with that being said, I want you to walk out of here and speculate how powerful WBH’s strikes are. Imagine if Iron Fist had a strength rating and durability rating of 7 and his energy projectile is at a 5 rating. That is World Breaker Hulk right there, the Immortal Iron Hulk.

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Iron Fist Movie Trilogy Idea

This is how I would write a Iron Fist movie. First, I would merge Danny's character and his father's Wendell. Orson would be his biological father.

Iron Fist:

This would have a Indiana Jones/ Kung Fu vibe.

Orson Rand is a 26 year old alcoholic whom loves going on archaeology adventures with his team of treasure hunter and bandit wearing a yellow mask during his travels. He grew up in Ku'n Lun where His family was stranded and he became their best Iron Fist at age 17, naturally having a genius level talent for fighting. Shortly after becoming the Iron Fist he became bored and left instead of preparing for the 7 city tournament which would come in 10 years time. Little did Orson know that he left behind a son in Ku'n Lun named Danny Wendell Rand.

At the beginning of the Iron Fist movie, Danny, the opposite of his father Orson, is the worst martial artist at Ku'n Lun, being overshadowed by all in his class, especially Davos, his adopted father's son the Thunderer. He also has asthma which he inherited from his mother who is sick and dying. Because of his upbringing, he is kind hearted and responsible not like his father Orson. At 9 years old, he sets a plan to escape Ku'n Lun when the city's gates connect to Earth and find his irresponsible father Orson and bring him back to Ku'n Lun one last time so Orson can see his mother before she passes away and so Orson can prepare for the upcoming 7 city tournament where the winner gets their city wealthy and rich. Little does Danny know that from the 8th secret city the Iron Fist killer follows him.

Danny finds Orson, bonds with him unwillingly and goes with Orson on his last treasure hunt before they go back to Ku'n Lun. But Orson soon discovers that with the presence of the Iron Fist killer, and without completing his Iron Fist training he begins to lose his IF powers.

The movie would end with Danny and Orson in a final confrontation with the Iron Fist killer at the gates of Ku'n Lun before they close off. Orson protects Danny and fights tie Iron Fist killer to a stand only to be losing until the gate closes causing Orson and the Iron Fist killer to be stuck inter dimensionally. The last scene he sees is a bloodied passed out Orson being held while pointing at the Thunderer declaring that he will be back when the gates reconnect in 10 years and that he will murder the next Iron Fist. Danny is heart broken but at the end of the movie he looks upon the Iron Fist crest and declares that he will become the next Iron Fist and kill the Iron Fist killer.

Iron Fist 2:

Iron Fist two would have a teenage Danny Wendell Rand train in Ku'n Lun for the big tournament for the next Iron Fist to come. He has trained hard for the last 7 years and is now 17, around the same age as his father when he became the Iron Fist. He is not like his father, who is still a martial arts genius but he has more drive and responsibility than his father training hard enough to defeat Davos. In the middle of the movie he will fight Davos and make a mortal enemy out of him (Davos leaves to the serpent city after this) and battles the Dragon to become the immortal Iron Fist. But he is not alone when he confronts and outsmarts the Dragon, it turns out the Iron Fist killer is at large and decides to steal the Dragon's soul before Danny could conquer it for himself. Orson would turn out to still be alive, fight the Iron Fist killer and get killed. He would tell Danny to plunge his fist into his chest and collect whatever power Orson has left and whatever the Iron Fist killer has not stolen already.

Danny, although only having a small portion of the Iron Fist powers and still overshadowed by his father. His Asthma is also cured thankfully. He is enraged and fights the Iron Fist killer, discovering that his handicap of not having the full Iron Fist power is to his advantage as the Iron Fist killer is only truly strong against another immortal weapon. Instead of being powered by the Dragon's power, it is his rage that he collects in his fist that allows him to defeat the Iron Fist killer.

With his satisfying victory, he plunges his fist into the Iron Fist killer becoming the most powerful Iron Fist with the Dragon's powers and a small portion of Orson's powers in his fist as well.

The Thunderer is not only proud but excited that Danny has become so strong. Even though Danny lacks the experience that his father did, he has much greater amount of power. They now have a Iron Fist to compete in the 7 city tournament.

In the end it will be revealed that Yu-Ti was working with the Iron Fist killer the whole time trying to steal Orson's family inheritance so he can live a rich and wealthy life outside of Ku'n Lun. In return he would sacrifice his city along with all the other cities to the 8th city full of demons.

Iron Fist 3:

The third Iron Fist movie would be about the 7 city tournament, Danny, Thunderer and Davos rebonding, Yu-Ti's plot, the Immortal weapons getting kidnapped and escaping the 8 cities and a final confrontation would be between Yu-Ti who has found a way to steal a portion of all of the Immortal Weapon's powers defeating them all and Danny beating him 1 on 1 with Davos helping as a distraction.

The end would have Danny to try and live on Earth, inheriting Orson's fortunes and finally Luke Cage would make a cameo confronting Danny about needing a partner on a case setting up a possible heroes for hire.

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Captain America. Peak or Enhanced human?

From the words of Ed Brubaker himself. The man who wrote Captain America for 8 years.

"I agree with parts of a lot of people's comments here and elsewhere. But I think it's a bit funny to see people get so bent out of shape when a guy who's given something called the "Super Soldier Serum" turns out to be a bit more than the average human. He's been leaping out of the windows of eight story buildings and across city streets in NYC, dodging bullets, doing amazing feats of speed and strength, since I started reading the book in the early 70s.

My take has always been that Cap is the peak of human POTENTIAL. What humans might someday be able to do, physically, he already can. If it was just about having an olypic-level athlete, do you really think all these groups and scientists would have been wasting 50plus years trying to replicate the SSS?

All I've done is have him say outloud what's always been pretty clear to me as a fan of the character. He's always been a lot stronger and faster than the average well-trained athlete. And I've always hated the Batman comparisons. Batman trained himself, Cap got given a miracle serum. I'm not making that up or changing anything.

Daredevil is more like Batman, physically, and yet in Born Again, Cap races by him so fast he's a breeze. As for Cap running 60mph. In the comic, I think he says he can run a mile in a little over a minute when he HAS to. It's not even implied that he can keep that up all day. It's a full-on burst of speed, when he has to."

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Superman's Speed

-----------------------------------------------EDIT 01-19-2012------------------------------------------

How fast is Superman? Sure he can fly at faster than light (FTL), but can he actually move his body at such speeds?

By speculation maybe he can. But from what we have seen, he cannot. Not like the Flash has.

First I will address this notorious scan of Superman chasing Wally.

People try and use this scan and the calculation above to show that they are running FTL. Now they misinterpret the scan and ignore all the narration and dialogue that Wally states before he approximates his calculation. He says that if he steals Superman's speed and turns him into a statue like he did to inertia, then it the speed and momentum they are moving at would make it so like he is moving much faster than FTL. Don't believe me, I have more evidence.

This is Superman running after Flash, people have used this scan to try and say Superman easily runs at light speed. He is not flying and using his biosphere. Therefore lets accept that he is using his superspeed with his limbs. Look at his facial expression, he is struggling to catch the Flash while the Flash barely seems to exert himself. Now how fast are they actually moving? Here is the scan that people FAIL to post when they are claiming FTL again.

Read what Superman says there. He hears something speaking a hypersonic speeds meaning that the Flash, who can use his powers of the speed force to add speed to almost anything even sound itself, is not running near the speed of light here. Superman running slower than Hypderspeeds, scale how fast someone can run to how fast they can punch and you can at least have a good rough estimate of how fast Superman can battle at. I'm currently too lazy to perform the research and claculations.

Lastly, we know what happens when Barry is serious.

To be continued: As of March 3, 2012 a user ( ) has pointed an awesome scan to me of Black Adam moving at Mach 500. Might debunk or give another analysis as to how fast Superman can actually move his limbs.

Start the Conversation

Common MISCONCEPTIONS of strength VS speed, BATTLE BOARDS.

First, I would like to address people that are anti-Physics. Please don't start with the "it's comics, science does not apply." This is very simply physics and it does apply because it's nothing too complex. Now let me begin.
Strength 
A common misconception in the battle boards is that someone who can lift 100 tons is surely able to punch buildings apart. This is not always true because:

1. Force relies on acceleration and mass.
2. Impact, a integral of force also relies on velocity.

Therefore someone that can lift as much as Superman but doesn't move nearly as fast as Superman cannot punch nearly as hard as Superman. They can lift and grapple as strong as Superman could but they cannot punch as hard as him. Or cause impacts as devastating as him. 

But wait, it's not over. Why are super strong characters shown to punch hard? Well there are a number of reasons why:

3. Their muscles and bones are more dense than the material they are hitting. Therefore their limbs do not brake when throwing a haymaker at a wall. If you punched a wall as hard as you could, a lot of the force would transfer back into your bones and brake them. This can significantly lower the amount of force you are trying to deliver to the wall. 
4. Their muscles, bones and tendons support their small size so much that they are capable of delivering all their mass into their punches because they know their bone is not going to brake.
5. Their muscles, bones and tendons are probably strong enough to accelerate their mass instantly. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are FTL, it's just that with their stronger and more dense body allows them to throw a snapping like motion better than a normal humans. Therefore I am no contradicting myself from 1-2. 

So in summary, this gives a good reason why characters like Luke Cage, Hulk or Max Damage are capable of delivering heavy blows without being much faster than an Olympic athlete. 

From this, two arguements can actually be made:

6. This is exactly why the Hulk can never beat Superman. 

or

7. The Hulk actually does move at higher speeds than we think (but no where near speedsters). With the amount of lean muscles the Hulk has, and his muscles he can surely snap and throw his weight quickly. This can be a reason why he's capable of keeping up with some faster people like the Sentry. This is just a theory, you guys can discuss it. 


Speed
Now it's time to tune into the Flashes. The Flashse abilities allow them to move at ultra high speeds, faster than even Superman. Thanks tot eh speed force, their durability is increased to sustain themselves when moving at super high speeds. Does this mean that the Flash can thunderclap stronger than the Hulk? Or they can even punch with greater impacts than Superman himself? The answer is yes. 


Thunder clapping: Essentially they are sonic booms caused by high impacts. I explained what influences great impacts already. 





Therefore the Flash theoretically would probably be able to Thunderclap with much more devastation than the Hulk and Juggernaut. An example is how Zoom (whose powers works differently but similarly than the Flashes) causes devastating sonic booms from just clicking his fingers. 

Incredible speed


Thus, Zoom and Flash can most likely thunderclap better than Juggernaut and Hulk can. Other scans show them punching each other and with each punch causes a sonic boom.

Potentially Punching Harder than Superman


This is assuming that Flash is much faster than Superman. Some people debate that he isn't much faster, but from what I have seen he is MUCH FASER than Superman. Thanks to the Speed force in increasing his durability to sustain his fast speeds, he can also punch with greater impacts than Superman if he punches much faster than him. Mass is almost negligible since they weight very close tot eh same ( Superman @ 225 lbs, Wally @ 190 lbs). Durability during the punch is also very close thanks to the Flash and his Speed force aura. We don't see the Flashes deliver their devastating punch, but what happens when they do? An IMP.




Although Zoom is faster than Flash, Flash is still Faster than Superman. Punches at light speeds do hurt Johnny!


Diana trying to claim she is as fast as Zoom... is a matter of her own opinion. Surely, she is not. 


That's it for now! Thank you for reading. I may add more.     
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