sj_esposito

@leejunfan83: My pleasure. :)

@havoc1201 said:

everyone is so impatient when it comes to Snyders archs we waited a year most of the time with Morrisons "epic" archs this story took 4 issues, give it time to develop, the after effects are going to be the main issues now so lets see where it goes. A lot of people think when you kill off a character it is a epic and forever change in the title but really it is a easy and cheap way to make a ending bc we all know that when someone dies in comics they allows return so it is not a really change, This arch went the psyhcological appoarch and from here on out the characters are changed we just have to wait and see just how much has changed and what the Joker said to cause it, also you do not have to keep reading the other books to see what happens just read the books you usually do and see how the character you read has been effected. Death for the sake of shock is pointless and a cliche. One more thing i saw on here a few people saying Batman lost his nerve to kill the joker but really the joker took away Batmans chance by slipping away and failing off the cliff bc Batman was going to break him and then kill him, but joker was afraid when batman started talking about his past and how the joker really was so he jumped.

You raise an interesting point... I guess it's possible that Batman was going to kill Joker after he told him his true identity... Although, it doesn't really seem like it, and, furthermore, I go the impression that Bruce was bluffing about knowing Joker's identity and past. Which leads me to believe that he was counting on Joker jumping off the ledge, so that he didn't have to kill him. And the last thing that made me think Batman had no intention of killing Joker was when he told Alfred that he's afraid to kill him because of what may show up after the fact if he did.

@entropy_aegis said:

@sEsposito7 said:

@Decoy Elite said:

No it's a way to set yourself up for an a$$ pull later on. Why in the world would any of the Bat family listen to Joker? What could he possibly say? How the heck is it Batman's fault? For letting Joker live? Because Todd's the only one lacking a no kill code IIRC.

Why would they listen to him? Maybe because something he said actually made sense to them and planted a seed of doubt or made a feeling that they were already feeling worse. Again, we don't know why until we know what he said. And it is Batman's fault for letting Joker live. The lives of every single person Joker has killed is blood on Batman's hand because he doesn't have it in him to put an end to the madness. 17 showed us that Batman is too weak to do what's necessary for the greater good. His excuse--that he's afraid something worse would come--is bullshit. That's a total cop out and way for Batman to rationalize his inability to kill a man.

And what exactly is this seed of doubt? read Nightwing,TT and Batgirl to find out? No thanks.

I did not read any of the tie in books, but I'm pretty sure the answers do not lie within their respective stories. I think Snyder will develop his story further in future arcs and we'll find out exactly what Joker did or said to make them distance themselves from Bruce.

@Decoy Elite said:

No it's a way to set yourself up for an a$$ pull later on. Why in the world would any of the Bat family listen to Joker? What could he possibly say? How the heck is it Batman's fault? For letting Joker live? Because Todd's the only one lacking a no kill code IIRC.

Why would they listen to him? Maybe because something he said actually made sense to them and planted a seed of doubt or made a feeling that they were already feeling worse. Again, we don't know why until we know what he said. And it is Batman's fault for letting Joker live. The lives of every single person Joker has killed is blood on Batman's hand because he doesn't have it in him to put an end to the madness. 17 showed us that Batman is too weak to do what's necessary for the greater good. His excuse--that he's afraid something worse would come--is bullshit. That's a total cop out and way for Batman to rationalize his inability to kill a man.

@Decoy Elite said:

Joker tore the family apart by telling spooky stories we never saw.

I found that pretty dumb personally.

That's a gross oversimplification of the events of DOTF. He tormented Batman and the family physically, mentally and emotionally, and we saw a great deal of what he did. Snyder leaving a few things off panel for now is undoubtedly for a bigger purpose later on, and even so, it's a disturbing way to end the story.

@JamesKM716 said:

My problem with Death of the Family, is that the status quo is more or less the same. That, and if Joker doesn't know their identities, then why did he attack Babs' mom and Rayna? That doesn't make any sense. Thirdly, The supposed wedge that occured.... first of all, what caused it? that Batman was withholding secrets? That's his nature. Is it the stuff that Joker supposedly told them off panel? If so that's incredibly stupid because it happened off panel.

IT was also over hyped, adn that didn't help matters.

Well, we don't really know what shape the status quo is in, because we've yet to see any follow up to 17. The wedge could be a major or a minor thing, but it's all riding on what future writers are willing to do with it. We just don't know yet how big the fallout from 17 will be. And, I too believe that it was way overhyped, but only in the sense that DC--and, unfortunately, Snyder (listen to the interview on the podcast before 17)--kept pushing the idea of a death.

@ccraft said:

Yeah you have a point, with the whole home intrusion and self defense thing. But most likely your not facing a burglar every night. What I mean by that is if your like Batman and make morals for yourself, your not gonna kill after facing a criminal. I mean if your not gonna kill someone after killing your adopted son (Jason) your not gonna kill him if he attacks your whole family, but not really hurting them (DOTF).

So yeah, I loved Batman 17, I thought it was pretty perfect. But what makes Batman so murderous in issue 18?

I get what you're saying about Batman having to face criminals every night and all that, and it's a fair argument to make, but I still don't think that if Batman killed Joker, he would automatically go on a killing spree. I think it would haunt him and chill him to the bone, that he wouldn't be able to handle the psychological side effects of what he'd done, that he'd have to cope with the fact that the Joker forced his hand and that he's broken his vow to his parents and Gotham. But at the same time, he'd be dealing with the feeling that he had absolutely no other choice and that he did the only thing he could do to keep his family safe.

@TDK_1997 said:

The biggest problems I had was that in the end almost nothing happened it looked like the Bat-family is torn apart but this isn't the first time Batman doesn't tell them something that happens.Why Joker cut off his face is still a mystery and we just want his face back on.And the story in the befinning wasn't that bad but in the end Snyder ruined it on his own.

Again, to reiterate, I think it's totally nonsensical to say that nothing happened. That's just a false statement. Joker tearing the family apart at the seams is most definitely 'something.' And, to add to what @sinestro_GL said, we also don't know what Joker told the family in the dark. We have to wait and see just how deep this cuts.

Can I just point out that this guy draws an incredible book every single month PLUS covers and is NEVER late..?! It's amazing... Capullo deserves all the praise he gets and more!

This was a good interview--provides a lot of insight into the overall story.

I've been thinking since I read 17 yesterday about the ending. It's haunted me a little. I wanted, so bad, for Batman to kill Joker. I really did. But I realize now that having Batman not cross that line was probably for the best, because it's such an integral part of the character. But, the actual ending... damn. It's the kind of thing that didn't seem so bad or shocking after I read it, but that lingers with me even now, nearly 24 hours later, as disturbing and something that's just horrible for Bruce to go through.

@Baberaham_Lincoln: Haha, nope. I've chatted with him about our name before, though.

I just bought all 5 issues of Avengers this past weekend and loved every page. It's off to an incredible start and I'm so excited by finally having a huge rotating cast done the right way. I feel like Hickman will, in due time, give every single one of the 24 characters their due service, without making anything feel forced or unnatural. I love the underlying plot theme of Tony vs Steve, as well. Just very excited to have a monthly title featuring all these characters and have it be so damn good.