@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

I get out perfectly fine, Sorry but most nerds and geeks aren't blacks.

I know that, which is why their abundant across most races. It's even more so for Asians, Indians, and Middle Easterners than White folks.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes in high school there.

Not exactly sure what high school you went to. Nerds are rejected by the popular crowd where I went to school.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes in high school there. And no there isn't any Urkels, By Urkels I'm talking about big glasses, lame clothes, social awkwardness, high voice.

By Urkels, I mean nerds, period.

I see it in whites more.

Not always

Yeah there's hardly anyone in this world extreme as Urkel was.

@Jnr6Lil said:

I get out perfectly fine, Sorry but most nerds and geeks aren't blacks.

I know that, which is why their abundant across most races. It's even more so for Asians, Indians, and Middle Easterners than White folks.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes in high school there.

Not exactly sure what high school you went to. Nerds are rejected by the popular crowd where I went to school.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes in high school there. And no there isn't any Urkels, By Urkels I'm talking about big glasses, lame clothes, social awkwardness, high voice.

By Urkels, I mean nerds, period.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

No, I don't see many nerds and geeks among blacks, Mostly see them from whites

You don't get out much, then. In my environment (private college), there are nerds and geeks everywhere.

@Jnr6Lil said:

Eh, you can be nerds and still be popular. Hell there's nerds/geeks that are good looking. Real life ain't like the movies. You rarely see Urkels in real life.

Not in high school, though. Even then, most nerds and geeks hang around people with the same interests (who are also nerds and geeks). Believe it or not, there are Urkels everywhere.

I get out perfectly fine, Sorry but most nerds and geeks aren't blacks.

And yes in high school there. And no there isn't any Urkels, By Urkels I'm talking about big glasses, lame clothes, social awkwardness, high voice.

@Jnr6Lil said:

No, I don't see many nerds and geeks among blacks, Mostly see them from whites

You don't get out much, then. In my environment (private college), there are nerds and geeks everywhere.

@Jnr6Lil said:

Eh, you can be nerds and still be popular. Hell there's nerds/geeks that are good looking. Real life ain't like the movies. You rarely see Urkels in real life.

Not in high school, though. Even then, most nerds and geeks hang around people with the same interests (who are also nerds and geeks). Believe it or not, there are Urkels everywhere.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

No, when you think black people you don't think nerd and geek, you think ghetto.

This doesn't change the fact that nerds and geeks are abundant among all races.

@Jnr6Lil said:

How do you know people don't think you're a nerd or geek but just don't say it to your face. Same for the other kids and your brother.

Kids in high school that viewed as the popular bunch (especially jocks) aren't viewed as nerds. Re-read my post, please.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yeah that could be nerdy

It seems as if you desperately trying to justify your point.

No, I don't see many nerds and geeks among blacks, Mostly see them from whites

Eh, you can be nerds and still be popular. Hell there's nerds/geeks that are good looking. Real life ain't like the movies. You rarely see Urkels in real life.

And no I'm not

Besides, even though nerds, geeks, dweebs, and dorks mean different things to most people they mean the same thing.

@Jnr6Lil said:

No, when you think black people you don't think nerd and geek, you think ghetto.

This doesn't change the fact that nerds and geeks are abundant among all races.

@Jnr6Lil said:

How do you know people don't think you're a nerd or geek but just don't say it to your face. Same for the other kids and your brother.

Kids in high school that viewed as the popular bunch (especially jocks) aren't viewed as nerds. Re-read my post, please.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yeah that could be nerdy

It seems as if you desperately trying to justify your point.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Um nerds and geeks are usually seen as stereotype of white people.

I guess you could say the same for other races, too.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes that would make them nerds and geeks.

I do all of those things, and I'm not viewed as a nerd or a geek. I know tons of people who also do those things, and they aren't viewed as nerds or geeks. In high school, I knew tons of kids (most of them being the popular bunch) that used to watch Dragon Ball Z and Yu Yu Hakusho, play Halo 2, and Super Smash Bros, and they even had open discussions about it at school. Yet, they were far from being the nerdy/geeky bunch. Most of those kids were athletes in school, too. My younger brother watches Naruto: Shippuuden and loves to play Gears of War 3 and Jedi Academy. Yet, he's never been perceived as a nerd or a geek, is athletic, also very good with women, and is a popular individual.

One would only be considered a nerd or geek in relevance to those things if most, if not everything they do is centered around those things without any social outlet or interaction with others.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And acting white usually means acting nerdy/geeky

What about those Black guys that wear Aeropostale and American Eagle, hang out with the popular White folks, attend their parties, and use their vernacular frequently? That's nerdy and geeky, right?

Instead of saying 'usually,' you should speak from your perspective, not from what you believe to be everyone else's.

No, when you think black people you don't think nerd and geek, you think ghetto.

How do you know people don't think you're a nerd or geek but just don't say it to your face. Same for the other kids and your brother.

And yeah that could be nerdy

physical mutations tend to seem more prominent in men because they are geared towards kids n little boys want to fight

but also mutation wise id assume testosterone levels play some role in the mutation

Back in the day you couldn't show women get beat up like a man in a comic so they tended to have powers that kept them at a distance so when they did get hurt it was from strain of their powers, a laser blast or hit by an object

But currently id say the sexist power choices has pretty much vanished

@Jnr6Lil said:

Um nerds and geeks are usually seen as stereotype of white people.

I guess you could say the same for other races, too.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And yes that would make them nerds and geeks.

I do all of those things, and I'm not viewed as a nerd or a geek. I know tons of people who also do those things, and they aren't viewed as nerds or geeks. In high school, I knew tons of kids (most of them being the popular bunch) that used to watch Dragon Ball Z and Yu Yu Hakusho, play Halo 2, and Super Smash Bros, and they even had open discussions about it at school. Yet, they were far from being the nerdy/geeky bunch. Most of those kids were athletes in school, too. My younger brother watches Naruto: Shippuuden and loves to play Gears of War 3 and Jedi Academy. Yet, he's never been perceived as a nerd or a geek, is athletic, also very good with women, and is a popular individual.

One would only be considered a nerd or geek in relevance to those things if most, if not everything they do is centered around those things without any social outlet or interaction with others.

@Jnr6Lil said:

And acting white usually means acting nerdy/geeky

What about those Black guys that wear Aeropostale and American Eagle, hang out with the popular White folks, attend their parties, and use their vernacular frequently? That's nerdy and geeky, right?

Instead of saying 'usually,' you should speak from your perspective, not from what you believe to be everyone else's.

@White Mage said:

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

He probably sat back there with satisfaction, right next to Herman Cain.

@White Mage said:

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

Saying that someone is 'acting White' shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the person is a geek.

1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

2. It shouldn't because it doesn't. But people are....kinda stupid sometimes. Though none of it makes sense to me. Also, for what it's worth, my example might not fit in as well as I'd thought, considering the nature of this conversation (nerd and geek have different meanings for me, because one is book smart and makes A's, while the other can tell you the entire history of DC comics).........Short version, race ain't got nothin to do with it.

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

He probably sat back there with satisfaction, right next to Herman Cain.

@White Mage said:

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

Saying that someone is 'acting White' shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the person is a geek.

@White Mage said:

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

Apparently, Morgan Freeman's stupid self is who I have to thank for that ridiculous BS

I know, right. That quote on 60 Minutes was stupid.

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Well when most people think nerds they think white people. Go to a black people and tell them about comics, Star Wars, sci-fi, etc, they'll say "that's some white mess"

I've never heard anyone say that nerds and geeks were stereotypes of White people, until now (and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense). That's something that's abundant across all races. Plus, you don't really know what most people think, so you shouldn't even go there.

Just because White people associate more with comic books, Star Wars, and the like doesn't mean that they are nerds or geeks.

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Well when most people think nerds they think white people. Go to a black people and tell them about comics, Star Wars, sci-fi, etc, they'll say "that's some white mess"

I've never heard anyone say that nerds and geeks were stereotypes of White people, until now (and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense). That's something that's abundant across all races. Plus, you don't really know what most people think, so you shouldn't even go there.

Just because White people associate more with comic books, Star Wars, and the like doesn't mean that they are nerds or geeks.

Um nerds and geeks are usually seen as stereotype of white people. And yes that would make them nerds and geeks.

And yes it's based on race.

And acting white usually means acting nerdy/geeky

@Static Shock said:

@SupermanJohnathanKentJr: You're welcome.

:D

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

He probably sat back there with satisfaction, right next to Herman Cain.

@White Mage said:

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

Saying that someone is 'acting White' shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the person is a geek.

1. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

2. It shouldn't because it doesn't. But people are....kinda stupid sometimes. Though none of it makes sense to me. Also, for what it's worth, my example might not fit in as well as I'd thought, considering the nature of this conversation (nerd and geek have different meanings for me, because one is book smart and makes A's, while the other can tell you the entire history of DC comics).........Short version, race ain't got nothin to do with it.

@White Mage said:

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

He probably sat back there with satisfaction, right next to Herman Cain.

@White Mage said:

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

Saying that someone is 'acting White' shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not the person is a geek.

@Static Shock said:

@White Mage said:

Apparently, Morgan Freeman's stupid self is who I have to thank for that ridiculous BS

I know, right. That quote on 60 Minutes was stupid.

I love his acting and I love his voice. But I was ready to strangle him after finding out he said something that dumb. Did he ENJOY segregation and sitting in the back of the bus?

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Well when most people think nerds they think white people. Go to a black people and tell them about comics, Star Wars, sci-fi, etc, they'll say "that's some white mess"

I've never heard anyone say that nerds and geeks were stereotypes of White people, until now (and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense). That's something that's abundant across all races. Plus, you don't really know what most people think, so you shouldn't even go there.

Just because White people associate more with comic books, Star Wars, and the like doesn't mean that they are nerds or geeks.

Unfortunately I have (in the form of "acting white" comments from brown people). However, the fact that it has been said to black people like myself is kind of proof of the fact that being a nerd/geek is not based on race. It is however yet another sign that there are some truly effed up viewpoints in this society.

@White Mage said:

Apparently, Morgan Freeman's stupid self is who I have to thank for that ridiculous BS

I know, right. That quote on 60 Minutes was stupid.

@Jnr6Lil said:

Well when most people think nerds they think white people. Go to a black people and tell them about comics, Star Wars, sci-fi, etc, they'll say "that's some white mess"

I've never heard anyone say that nerds and geeks were stereotypes of White people, until now (and quite frankly, it doesn't make sense). That's something that's abundant across all races. Plus, you don't really know what most people think, so you shouldn't even go there.

Just because White people associate more with comic books, Star Wars, and the like doesn't mean that they are nerds or geeks.

@Static Shock said:

@Imagine_Man15 said:

The best way to stop racism is to quit talking about it.

Right, because doing nothing about it accomplishes nothing. That also includes refusing to talk about it. Your statement is horrendously flawed.

Apparently, Morgan Freeman's stupid self is who I have to thank for that ridiculous BS

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Um yeah, when you think nerd, and geek you think white people. And I would probably say most of them are of that race. Welcome to 2012

When I think of a nerd, his or her race doesn't mean anything. Perhaps that the difference between you and I. The year has nothing to do with that.

Well when most people think nerds they think white people. Go to a black people and tell them about comics, Star Wars, sci-fi, etc, they'll say "that's some white mess"@cattlebattle said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

But they're not hating them due to the facial structure and all that other stuff you said. They're hating them due to personalities they believed is associated with that race

Which is stereotypical based on race, and in turn, racially prejudice. There's no disputing that.

Besides, I had no idea that being geeky, nerdy, or socially inept was more-so associated with Whites than other races. I'm pretty sure nerds are abundant among all races.

exactly, racially prejudice=racism

Um yeah, when you think nerd, and geek you think white people. And I would probably say most of them are of that race. Welcome to 2012

hmmmmm................

He's an exception but part of the reason he got famous was because he was a black nerd, so again like what I said before.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

But they're not hating them due to the facial structure and all that other stuff you said. They're hating them due to personalities they believed is associated with that race

Which is stereotypical based on race, and in turn, racially prejudice. There's no disputing that.

Besides, I had no idea that being geeky, nerdy, or socially inept was more-so associated with Whites than other races. I'm pretty sure nerds are abundant among all races.

exactly, racially prejudice=racism

Um yeah, when you think nerd, and geek you think white people. And I would probably say most of them are of that race. Welcome to 2012

@Jnr6Lil said:

Um yeah, when you think nerd, and geek you think white people. And I would probably say most of them are of that race. Welcome to 2012

When I think of a nerd, his or her race doesn't mean anything. Perhaps that the difference between you and I. The year has nothing to do with that.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

But they're not hating them due to the facial structure and all that other stuff you said. They're hating them due to personalities they believed is associated with that race

Which is stereotypical based on race, and in turn, racially prejudice. There's no disputing that.

Besides, I had no idea that being geeky, nerdy, or socially inept was more-so associated with Whites than other races. I'm pretty sure nerds are abundant among all races.

exactly, racially prejudice=racism

Um yeah, when you think nerd, and geek you think white people. And I would probably say most of them are of that race. Welcome to 2012

@Jnr6Lil said:

But they're not hating them due to the facial structure and all that other stuff you said. They're hating them due to personalities they believed is associated with that race

Which is stereotypical based on race, and in turn, racially prejudice. There's no disputing that.

Besides, I had no idea that being geeky, nerdy, or socially inept was more-so associated with Whites than other races. I'm pretty sure nerds are abundant among all races.

I have had this conversation or variation thereof since my first moments on comicvine years ago....What needs to be understood in these conversations, are individuals on here come from a highly diverse level of understanding on the subject...I would guess the majority of the individuals leaning more toward unexperienced and ignorant...not maliciously so necesarily....what is important in life period, is to recognize there is more to know. So unless you have a Phd in the subject, a modicum of humility would serve you well when listening to others....People with Phd's usually already know that.;)

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

I know black kids on my bus (I'm black), that say they hate white people.

The race of said people is the subject of your statement. So, it has a lot to do with skin color.

But they're not hating them due to the facial structure and all that other stuff you said. They're hating them due to personalities they believed is associated with that race

@SupermanJohnathanKentJr: You're welcome.

@Static Shock said:

@Imagine_Man15 said:

The best way to stop racism is to quit talking about it.

Right, because doing nothing about it accomplishes nothing. That also includes refusing to talk about it. Your statement is horrendously flawed.

Thank you. It pissed me off just seeing that post.

@Jnr6Lil said:

I know black kids on my bus (I'm black), that say they hate white people.

The race of said people is the subject of your statement. So, it has a lot to do with skin color.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Racism stems deeper than just hating over physical differences.

Physical differences, as far as skin color and facial structure (yes, people are ignorant to the point that they think we actually look like monkeys), is the root cause.

No it goes deeper than that, The personalities of said race can cause racism. I know black kids on my bus (I'm black), that say they hate white people. Hating white people is racist but they don't hate him due to their skin color. They hate them because they seem nerdy.

@Silver_Raven: You do have a point about powers being based on gender/race. I never really thought about that. But for body types, that's all about sales. Men with big muscles sell. When with slender bodies sell. I don't think there's anything to get offended there because there's a lot more muscly men in comics than there are slender women and men can wear less clothes than women. Don't believe me? Look at Namor's old costume. Case and point.

@Jnr6Lil said:

Racism stems deeper than just hating over physical differences.

Physical differences, as far as skin color and facial structure (yes, people are ignorant to the point that they think we actually look like monkeys), is the root cause.

@Silver_Raven said:

@Sling Shot said:

The short answer is Yes: power distribution and characterization is both stereotypically sexist and racist.

The reason, which is not a justification, is because the almost all characters are created by sexist racists, or at least minimaly educated, ignorant creators, that are writing to appeal to an audience with the same predilection. The Caucasian male. Though sophisticated stories exist and clever characterization can emerge, it is not a common occurrence. The strengths of the comics usually range in the areas the target audience is more versed or deem important.

Accurate cultrally diverse characters are a rare phenomenon.......but if you ask the majority of the 'target audience', things are a little too ethnic...at least that is the consensus I have compiled after decades of near ceaseless research....I will say the original Milestone universe 'Dakotaverse' was a breath of fresh air on this specific subject.

There are more obscure titles that are approached with cultural savvy.....and the remaain obscure, i'm deducing, because that doesn't appeal to the target audience. The same target audience who probably make up the bulk of this community comicvine...

so don't expect too much comraderie on these issues.

good luck:O)

My main reason to pose the original question the way i did was to see if anyone would admit it. As an X-men fan, who knows somewhat of the Marvel U at large. There have been so many stories and images, and the constant spotlight on certain characters at the cost of exclusion to others. My biggest gripe in the direction of the X-books was Decimation and end of new mutants and new diversity, And those mutant that were diverse and unique were depowered, killed of or shoved off into limbo. So i am still quite bitter. Especially since i counted on those new mutants to explore some of these issues. I am hopeful, as always that this Phoenix event will finally set things right again.

There is an infamous Morlock named Tar Baby, who when i researched him found out about how that term can mean a sticky situation or derogatory name for a black person. But with all words it can be open to interpretation, and in some pics it can be argued the character is a person of colour, who reclaimed that name for himself. Or it could be an ideal name for mutant with tar-like powers. Or it could be just a term that is unintentionally racist. to some.

And i think that's what happens a lot in the comic books. It might not intentionally be racist or sexist but can still be interpreted as such, so the creators have to be careful and creative of who they create next. If people were more aware of what could offend people or hurt people, then maybe affirmative steps could be taken to change the mindset of the comic book industry, creator and consumer alike.

I just want the X-book to be more self aware and inclusive on the pages and behind them.

Turd can be racist for black people

@Sling Shot said:

The short answer is Yes: power distribution and characterization is both stereotypically sexist and racist.

The reason, which is not a justification, is because the almost all characters are created by sexist racists, or at least minimaly educated, ignorant creators, that are writing to appeal to an audience with the same predilection. The Caucasian male. Though sophisticated stories exist and clever characterization can emerge, it is not a common occurrence. The strengths of the comics usually range in the areas the target audience is more versed or deem important.

Accurate cultrally diverse characters are a rare phenomenon.......but if you ask the majority of the 'target audience', things are a little too ethnic...at least that is the consensus I have compiled after decades of near ceaseless research....I will say the original Milestone universe 'Dakotaverse' was a breath of fresh air on this specific subject.

There are more obscure titles that are approached with cultural savvy.....and the remaain obscure, i'm deducing, because that doesn't appeal to the target audience. The same target audience who probably make up the bulk of this community comicvine...

so don't expect too much comraderie on these issues.

good luck:O)

My main reason to pose the original question the way i did was to see if anyone would admit it. As an X-men fan, who knows somewhat of the Marvel U at large. There have been so many stories and images, and the constant spotlight on certain characters at the cost of exclusion to others. My biggest gripe in the direction of the X-books was Decimation and end of new mutants and new diversity, And those mutant that were diverse and unique were depowered, killed of or shoved off into limbo. So i am still quite bitter. Especially since i counted on those new mutants to explore some of these issues. I am hopeful, as always that this Phoenix event will finally set things right again.

There is an infamous Morlock named Tar Baby, who when i researched him found out about how that term can mean a sticky situation or derogatory name for a black person. But with all words it can be open to interpretation, and in some pics it can be argued the character is a person of colour, who reclaimed that name for himself. Or it could be an ideal name for mutant with tar-like powers. Or it could be just a term that is unintentionally racist. to some.

And i think that's what happens a lot in the comic books. It might not intentionally be racist or sexist but can still be interpreted as such, so the creators have to be careful and creative of who they create next. If people were more aware of what could offend people or hurt people, then maybe affirmative steps could be taken to change the mindset of the comic book industry, creator and consumer alike.

I just want the X-book to be more self aware and inclusive on the pages and behind them.

@Static Shock said:

@Jnr6Lil said:

Not always true'

In a situation like this, t's definitely, always true. But, yes. Go ahead and stop talking about racism as people continue to hate others because of physical differences. See how far it gets you.

Racism stems deeper than just hating over physical differences.

And when I said not always true I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Not always true'

@Static Shock said:

@Imagine_Man15 said:

The best way to stop racism is to quit talking about it.

Right, because doing nothing about it accomplishes nothing. That also includes refusing to talk about it. Your statement is horrendously flawed.

Not always true'

In this case though yes, you guys should stop talking about it because it seems now you guys are becoming the racists.

The best way to stop racism is to quit talking about it.

The chains of convention in comics is a tradition of antiquity...obviously, this conversation is the proof of that. Partaking in behaviours born out of and perpetuating the practice of irrational descriminations warrant the appropriate titles of racist and or sexist, which yes are negative. And the prevailing trend to depict characters in such a short sighted way will be assessed as such by any individual with the experience and werewithall to see it for what it is....The only danger detected here is glancing over it, and accepting it as good writing. And as fans all any of us want is the best story. I'm just of a mind that that story is the more authentic one.

Equipping 'certain' characters with certain powers for certain purposes, becomes a redundant pattern and reveals the shared thinking of the person's employing those shared patterns. It devalues the character when a slightly modified rehashed stereotype is introduced. That being said I am not against symbolism, I think it is an excellent tool for storytelling. Research works wonders for making the depiction of something holistically accurate.

@Silver_Raven said:

I agree on Zero, Mister X, Tyler Dayspring (even though he's not in the 616 universe, but he's still Jean's blood), Hyperstorm (just like Tyler before him).

On the other end. Many of the names you mentioned are dead or depowered. Like X-man who just has telekinesis as his defacto power. Apocalypse most likely acquired his psychic abilities over time. Sinister genetically engineered himself into a telepath. Alpha the UM was evolved genetically. And Mr. M is just given token telepathy but never used it. And Fantomex is a mutate and isn't classified as a telepath unlike the Mastermind family. Lucifer is not a human or mutant. And I still don't see that many pure telepaths.

Researching those male characters on your list further shows how male psychics are overpowered and can't just have telepathy, they have to have everything else, which was part of my initial observation of gender imbalance when it comes to power distribution. The only near omnipotent "OMEGA" females i can think of are Jean Grey (thanks to to the Phoenix but still "dead" ), Monet (but she isn't classified as such), Gaia (who appeared and disappeared???) and Psylocke (thanks to Jean).

I think what would really even things out and restore the balance is to have Jean come back. Along with the mutant gene. The world just needs more mutants at last.

The same could easily be said of female mutant telepaths. Telepathy is just part of the package. Selene is almost a vampire god. Emma Frost also turns to diamond, M has super strength and can fly, the M-twins can open interdimensional portals, Hope Summers just leaks powers from other mutants which just makes her another version of Rogue, Psylocke is a master hand to hand combatant and a master of ninjitsu.

And mutants make so many trips between realities I think it's fair to include those native to 616 if not currently in 616.

Also I don't understand what you meant by X-man getting telekinesis and telepathy as his defacto power. Why should that disinclude him from the lineup? He's a mutant with telepathy, hell he's just another version of Nate Summers who was born that way like any other mutant.

And since when is Psylocke an Omega level mutant?

Apocalypse acquired a lot of abilities over time. The exact nature of his powers have always been ambiguous at best but we know he has telepathy. He's a mutant with telepathy and should be included.

I do understand why you chose not to include Mr. Sinister but since he's such an integral part of the X-men universe and hardly appears outside of there comics I'd argue that he should be included in the mutant lineup. After all we aren't defining racism in comics because of mutation but rather because of the context that mutation represents.

Lucifer and Fantomex can both fall under the Sinister argument.

@Sling Shot said:

The short answer is Yes: power distribution and characterization is both stereotypically sexist and racist.

The reason, which is not a justification, is because the almost all characters are created by sexist racists, or at least minimaly educated, ignorant creators, that are writing to appeal to an audience with the same predilection. The Caucasian male. Though sophisticated stories exist and clever characterization can emerge, it is not a common occurrence. The strengths of the comics usually range in the areas the target audience is more versed or deem important.

Accurate cultrally diverse characters are a rare phenomenon.......but if you ask the majority of the 'target audience', things are a little too ethnic...at least that is the consensus I have compiled after decades of near ceaseless research....I will say the original Milestone universe 'Dakotaverse' was a breath of fresh air on this specific subject.

There are more obscure titles that are approached with cultural savvy.....and the remaain obscure, i'm deducing, because that doesn't appeal to the target audience. The same target audience who probably make up the bulk of this community comicvine...

so don't expect too much comraderie on these issues.

good luck:O)

Once again I agree with the sentiment and the need for discussion to curb the trend of racial and gender ignorance. Like you said the caucasian male is the target demographic for most of the comic industry, and speaking from experience we tend to be insulated and closed off from other cultures and even in some cases gender. I believe that this same demographic is slowly being introduced and intertwined with the larger comic book community which can only be a good thing.

But the actual words sexist and racist are very heated and aggressive terms to bandy about so non-chalantly. They connote hatred and bigotry on part of white males towards the larger comic book culture. If change actually is to come to the industry then vilifying the industry's largest consumer can only be counter-productive. Especially when accusations are easily contestable. As in the case of this thread, gender and racial stereotypes in the medium both real and perceived have been narrowed down to an absurdly specific corner of the comic book process. Debating the political correctness of mutant powersets is splitting hairs and not splitting them particularly well. There are only so many superpowers and there are only so many ways to make them interesting. Some of them are bound to repeat because of noted tropes throughout the history of literature and the fact that people can identify with certain archetypes which make a story easier to digest. Now this is not always the case, but in comic book fluff it sometimes is.

A good distinction that I would make is this.

Dr. Stranges manservant Wong: I believe that his depiction is often a racist one. He is hardly shown and is often doing his caucasian master's bidding. He has little to no backstory and is known less for his character than for being Dr. Stranges lackey. The reader doesn't gain anything significant from him.

The Collective Man: A powerset that allows for five brothers to morph into one being sharing the knowledge and strength of all five brothers. This is an obvious analogue to the Chinese Communist Party which is a huge cultural staple for China (where the Collective man is from). He also has little backstory, but his powerset serves as a tool to bring the reader some knowledge of the zeitgest of the Chinese communist party. His existence serves a higher purpose to the reader even if it is a brief one. Not racist.

I think it's easy to dismiss something as racist or sexist just as it's easy to dismiss something as not offensive. Comics as most other art forms lie somewhere in the middle. It's very difficult to find a right way to discuss the issue without devolving into a shouting match, but I know for certain it doesn't involve arbitrarily going on a witchhunt for mutants whose writers ran out of superhuman abilities.

Mutants were the subjects researched enough to pose the question by the initial poster of the forum....but yeah it encompasses all of Marvel and DC

Why is this being reduced to mutants? Characters who received their powers by other means fit into the same question.

a perpetuation of the small minded approach....proven successful.....until minorities are numerous enough to outgrow they're given 'title'.

As a writer for me personally I think its too much of a distraction to the reader to "break stereotypes" ( please let me explain). Let say i have protagonist who is white and i want to create a group of friends for him... if i were to make his all his friends black, asian, arab etc.. I think it will distract the reader. Of course in the real world there is nothing wrong with that. but for the sake of the story creating a white group as friends will ensure the reader is paying attention to what you want them too.

It might be the same way when it comes to giving women and certain races superpowers who knows...

The short answer is Yes: power distribution and characterization is both stereotypically sexist and racist.

The reason, which is not a justification, is because the almost all characters are created by sexist racists, or at least minimaly educated, ignorant creators, that are writing to appeal to an audience with the same predilection. The Caucasian male. Though sophisticated stories exist and clever characterization can emerge, it is not a common occurrence. The strengths of the comics usually range in the areas the target audience is more versed or deem important.

Accurate cultrally diverse characters are a rare phenomenon.......but if you ask the majority of the 'target audience', things are a little too ethnic...at least that is the consensus I have compiled after decades of near ceaseless research....I will say the original Milestone universe 'Dakotaverse' was a breath of fresh air on this specific subject.

There are more obscure titles that are approached with cultural savvy.....and the remaain obscure, i'm deducing, because that doesn't appeal to the target audience. The same target audience who probably make up the bulk of this community comicvine...

so don't expect too much comraderie on these issues.

good luck:O)

@TheWitchingHour said:

My telepathic tally

Female Telepaths (23): Emma Frost, Psylocke, Rachel Grey, Karma, M (who has a vast array of abilities including Superhuman strength), Blindfold (who is clairvoyant and precognitive not telepathic but I'll include it), the Stepford Cuckoos (who are a hive mind but have shown enough individuality to distinguish themselves so that's another gray area), Lady Mastermind, Mastermind, Selene, Madelyne Pryor, Jean Grey, M-twins (open interdimensional gateways as well), Hope Summers, Martha Johansson, Sage, Cassandra Nova, Alice Hayes, Astrid Bloom,

Male Telepaths (28): Charles Xavier, Kid Omega, Legion, Exodus, Cable, X-man, Shadow King, Franklin Richards, Apocalypse, Fantomex (misdirection amounts to illusion casting which is included due to Lady Mastermind and Mastermind above), the Gorgon, Mister Sinister, Azazel, Kenji Uedo, Absolon Mercator, Stryfe, Prodigy, Proteus, Jason Wyngrade, Tyler Dayspring, Mister X, Hyperstorm, Shen Xorn, Lucifer, Alpha the Ultimate Mutant, Gene Hayes, Hack, Spencer Bronson

These are the ones I can think of. And a couple I had to look up. But it wasn't difficult to list more male telepaths than female ones.

I agree on Zero, Mister X, Tyler Dayspring (even though he's not in the 616 universe, but he's still Jean's blood), Hyperstorm (just like Tyler before him).

On the other end. Many of the names you mentioned are dead or depowered. Like X-man who just has telekinesis as his defacto power. Apocalypse most likely acquired his psychic abilities over time. Sinister genetically engineered himself into a telepath. Alpha the UM was evolved genetically. And Mr. M is just given token telepathy but never used it. And Fantomex is a mutate and isn't classified as a telepath unlike the Mastermind family. Lucifer is not a human or mutant. And I still don't see that many pure telepaths.

Researching those male characters on your list further shows how male psychics are overpowered and can't just have telepathy, they have to have everything else, which was part of my initial observation of gender imbalance when it comes to power distribution. The only near omnipotent "OMEGA" females i can think of are Jean Grey (thanks to to the Phoenix but still "dead" ), Monet (but she isn't classified as such), Gaia (who appeared and disappeared???) and Psylocke (thanks to Jean).

I think what would really even things out and restore the balance is to have Jean come back. Along with the mutant gene. The world just needs more mutants at last.

@joshmightbe said:

@Jnr6Lil: this is 2012 everything is racist apparently

Guess so

@joshmightbe: Yeah but he's meant to be the nerdy guy that can't really make him too strong. It would ruin his character. Plus his strength is proportional to his size. While most other super's get big arms because of there powers.

There are exceptions of course this is just meant in general anyway.

@Jnr6Lil: this is 2012 everything is racist apparently

No, How is telepathy racist?

@TheWitchingHour said:

@TheCannon: You're absolutely right. Comic book art has a long history of being objectifying and sexist. But this thread is dedicated to the nature of powers and whether or not they're sexist. And I don't think they are. I also don't think they're racist.

They are unfair to all body types. Male and female.