I agree with you. My belief is that the success of Marvel's properties in Film is the root cause, going back to the First Spider-Man film. I think the Powers that be at DC have been under pressure to produce similar results, strange since Time Warner should realize it's comic wing (DC) needs to focus on Comics and the Comics audience and has nothing to do with film. I believe the lack of success DC has had with their film properties (excluding Batman) has resulted indirectly in the recent editorial decisions and in-house re-structuring. Because of $hit-a$$ oversight the Hellblazer movie was a travesty, and re-introducing Vertigo's hero's to the DC mainstream smacks of more $hiity editorial oversight. DC is doing it to themselves.

" @turoksonofstone:  Even Batman is "cursed" it seems with the third movie likely to suck since Heath's Joker was originally important to it.  Instead of focusing on comics DC forgot what the "DC" stands for.  Only Morrison's Batman do I really rave about and even then that is because it is Morrison, he writes on a level where he has no peers in the mainstream.

Swamp Thing in the DC makes no sense to me since how many "new" green lantern fans know who he is?  Yes Geoff Johns has brought in a new following of comic readers, but these readers don't need to have every old character pushed on them.  if Hellblazer is on the brink of cancellation, then DC really doesn't know what they are doing. Those who read Flash would not care about John Constantine in the way where he is written best.

Does DC really want John in the DCU?  It didn't work in Teen Titans. "

" @turoksonofstone:  I dropped the GL series after Blackest Night and Brightest day never sold me from people's reviews.  The DCU has become a soap opera.John in the DCU is not as entertaining because he was suppose to be mysterious. This is why Delano fleshed him out not Alan Moore.BTW... was my comment on the old address an interesting point? "

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

" @Silkcuts said:

" @turoksonofstone:  I dropped the GL series after Blackest Night and Brightest day never sold me from people's reviews.  The DCU has become a soap opera.John in the DCU is not as entertaining because he was suppose to be mysterious. This is why Delano fleshed him out not Alan Moore.BTW... was my comment on the old address an interesting point? "

It seems like the "pace" of both Marvel and DC has picked up in the current era leaping from one end-all event to the next. I miss the pace of the mid 80's comics...

He belongs in a Vertigo branded book. period.

666 Fifth Ave. NYC that is one hell of an address...

"

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

A believe a demon or two have.  could be wrong, its been a while since I read the older stuff. "

I wonder if there is a market who would read a fictional story of course, of DC Comics making a deal with the devil ans creating vertigo... lol                
You must read Maximortal by Rick Veitch!!!!!!!!!!
Looking forward to those Reviews!

" @Silkcuts said:

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

A believe a demon or two have.  could be wrong, its been a while since I read the older stuff. "

I find that hilarious for some reason..... "

" I wonder if there is a market who would read a fictional story of course, of DC Comics making a deal with the devil ans creating vertigo... lol                
You must read Maximortal by Rick Veitch!!!!!!!!!! Looking forward to those Reviews! "

" @Silkcuts:If you read one thing on my recommendation let this be it. 

I recommended Tyrant too. I have not read it yet I hear,  Hes currently doing his own heroes from the old Image series 1963.

Maximortal even goes into the Superman/DC thing you shall be tripped out. "

" @Silkcuts said:

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

A believe a demon or two have.  could be wrong, its been a while since I read the older stuff. "

I find that hilarious for some reason..... "

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

@Silkcuts: 

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" @Silkcuts said:

" @Emperor Gonzo Noir said:

" @Silkcuts: I will personally laugh my ass off if someone at any point actually refers to John as "Hellblazer". "

A believe a demon or two have.  could be wrong, its been a while since I read the older stuff. "

I find that hilarious for some reason..... "

Don't blame you, it sounds off... I like JC or just John personally. "

You and I had some differing opinions on these characters in the past but I do agree John has little value in the DCU unlike his other former Vertigo buddies they were heavily involved in the DCU when John just spoke to Swamp Thing and maybe the Trench coat Brigade he has very specific roles in his own book that may not fit in the DCU.

I was not convinced that John would return to the DCU but some have been speculating that this is John.
 

It's a very sad and worrisome state Vertigo is in which is why I cling to the news of Spaceman by Brian Azzarello and Eduardo Russo or Sean Murphy's project. I read more Vertigo comics when I was getting into the media so I get worried about it. But it makes sense the publishing world is just that much smaller then when Vertigo started up as are comics like Dark Horse firing so many employees or Tokyopop closing in America and I see many the crap that the big 2 pull are just trying to get older people to read again in some misguided attempts many say good comics are all that is needed but it does not seem that way as they tend to be the books that sell less.  

As was said in the pages of Origins and Omens prior to Blackest Night, these events make me start to believe that "something wicked this way comes."

" @turoksonofstone:  Even Batman is "cursed" it seems with the third movie likely to suck since Heath's Joker was originally important to it.  Instead of focusing on comics DC forgot what the "DC" stands for.  Only Morrison's Batman do I really rave about and even then that is because it is Morrison, he writes on a level where he has no peers in the mainstream.

Swamp Thing in the DC makes no sense to me since how many "new" green lantern fans know who he is?  Yes Geoff Johns has brought in a new following of comic readers, but these readers don't need to have every old character pushed on them.  if Hellblazer is on the brink of cancellation, then DC really doesn't know what they are doing. Those who read Flash would not care about John Constantine in the way where he is written best.

Does DC really want John in the DCU?  It didn't work in Teen Titans. "

" You and I had some differing opinions on these characters in the past but I do agree John has little value in the DCU unlike his other former Vertigo buddies they were heavily involved in the DCU when John just spoke to Swamp Thing and maybe the Trench coat Brigade he has very specific roles in his own book that may not fit in the DCU.

I was not convinced that John would return to the DCU but some have been speculating that this is John.
 It's a very sad and worrisome state Vertigo is in which is why I cling to the news of Spaceman by Brian Azzarello and Eduardo Russo or Sean Murphy's project. I read more Vertigo comics when I was getting into the media so I get worried about it. But it makes sense the publishing world is just that much smaller then when Vertigo started up as are comics like Dark Horse firing so many employees or Tokyopop closing in America and I see many the crap that the big 2 pull are just trying to get older people to read again in some misguided attempts many say good comics are all that is needed but it does not seem that way as they tend to be the books that sell less. "

" what the f@#k!!! NOOOOOOO!

the series has just been getting better and better, you can't kill it now...#300...Milligan needs to take it to 300, kill off John Constantine permanently and then make an agreement with DC that JC will never be resurrected! Hellblazer was the only book in the Vertigo line to predate the imprint, it's the longest-running comic (that I know of) that began in the Modern Age of Comics, why would you throw that away?

"

" @Silkcuts said:

" @turoksonofstone:  Even Batman is "cursed" it seems with the third movie likely to suck since Heath's Joker was originally important to it.  Instead of focusing on comics DC forgot what the "DC" stands for.  Only Morrison's Batman do I really rave about and even then that is because it is Morrison, he writes on a level where he has no peers in the mainstream.

Swamp Thing in the DC makes no sense to me since how many "new" green lantern fans know who he is?  Yes Geoff Johns has brought in a new following of comic readers, but these readers don't need to have every old character pushed on them.  if Hellblazer is on the brink of cancellation, then DC really doesn't know what they are doing. Those who read Flash would not care about John Constantine in the way where he is written best.

Does DC really want John in the DCU?  It didn't work in Teen Titans. "

Oh god I tried so hard to cut that from my memory...  "

" As was said in the pages of Origins and Omens prior to Blackest Night, these events make me start to believe that "something wicked this way comes." "

" I love DC and I love Vertigo. That being said keep them at a respective distance from one another. Silkcuts, I know how big of a Hellblazer fan you are so I'm really sorry to hear this. And while I'm interested to see Swamp Thing interact with the DCU I know he is a better fit in the realm of Vertigo. Keep your chin up Silk!! "

" Hardy/Bane will top Ledger/Joker MARK MY WORDS. "

" @Silkcuts: Nah i just feel Ledger gets more praise than due,same goes for TDK as a whole. "

I'm still waiting to see why Madame Xanadu was cancelled. You needed her SO bad DC, where is she???

" the thing that pisses me off the most about this is Milligan is writing a better -at least by sheer consistency in quality- Hellblazer run (IMO) then the book has ever had in its twenty years (and its been written by pretty much all of the best)...I guess they're trying to pull Milligan out of Vertigo, cancelling Greek Street far too soon and with his upcoming books in the DCU...this blows =/ "

" I'm still waiting to see why Madame Xanadu was cancelled. You needed her SO bad DC, where is she??? "

" @johnny spam said:

" You and I had some differing opinions on these characters in the past but I do agree John has little value in the DCU unlike his other former Vertigo buddies they were heavily involved in the DCU when John just spoke to Swamp Thing and maybe the Trench coat Brigade he has very specific roles in his own book that may not fit in the DCU.

I was not convinced that John would return to the DCU but some have been speculating that this is John.
 It's a very sad and worrisome state Vertigo is in which is why I cling to the news of Spaceman by Brian Azzarello and Eduardo Russo or Sean Murphy's project. I read more Vertigo comics when I was getting into the media so I get worried about it. But it makes sense the publishing world is just that much smaller then when Vertigo started up as are comics like Dark Horse firing so many employees or Tokyopop closing in America and I see many the crap that the big 2 pull are just trying to get older people to read again in some misguided attempts many say good comics are all that is needed but it does not seem that way as they tend to be the books that sell less. "

Your right that good comics is not enough anymore.  I think many comic readers forgot the semiotics in comics and the layers that can be found in comics.  Many readers like the hype, but never really understand the raw awesome potential of comics, my latest example of it was my Morning Glories review.  There is not enoug people who push the medium anymore.  If John would return, I want his mandate tougher then Superman where only guys like Morrison, Milligan, Gaiman, Ennis, Diggle, Azz, Ellis, BKV, Carey, etc... meaning at one period of time they wrote him in a good story. I really hope that "shadowy figure" is not John.  It makes sense.... but not a huge fan of the idea.  "

" @The Lobster :  With Geoff Johns having his fingers in the mix I can't imagine John being written well, Since Johns leans towards his personal preferences, which does not always pay proper respect to the characters involved.

I don't see why JC can't be in both universes. Marvel hasn't had a problem having characters under multiple imprints at the same time with regular 616, Ultimate, Noir and Max books so DC should be able to pull it off just having a regular DCU version and a Vertigo version. As for confusing readers I haven't seen anyone confused by Marvel's multiple versions so that really shouldn't be a problem.

" @Silkcuts said:
...The Search for Swamp Thing is written by Jonathan Vankin... "

" @Silkcuts said:

" @The Lobster :  With Geoff Johns having his fingers in the mix I can't imagine John being written well, Since Johns leans towards his personal preferences, which does not always pay proper respect to the characters involved.

From what I see, Geoff won't be writing John Constantine. Just providing the event for which he comes back into the DCUThe Search for Swamp Thing is written by Jonathan Vankin, and the Lois Lane series will be written by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning. So Geoff's fingers won't be touching John at all, as far as I can see. "

" I don't see why JC can't be in both universes. Marvel hasn't had a problem having characters under multiple imprints at the same time with regular 616, Ultimate, Noir and Max books so DC should be able to pull it off just having a regular DCU version and a Vertigo version. As for confusing readers I haven't seen anyone confused by Marvel's multiple versions so that really shouldn't be a problem. "

" @Silkcuts:

" @Silkcuts said:
...The Search for Swamp Thing is written by Jonathan Vankin... "

 

"

@Roxanne Starr said:

" @Silkcuts:

" @Silkcuts said:
...The Search for Swamp Thing is written by Jonathan Vankin... "

 

"

I am aware ^_^He is writing brilliantly on it btw.  He was also a Vertigo editor, so she does "understand" Swamp Thing, because he was the editor of The Un-men if I remember correctly.  I just think bringing Vertigo back to the DCU is a step back on what Vertigo was doing in the first place.  Vankin just makes the situation a little easier to swallow. "

" @pikahyper said:

" I don't see why JC can't be in both universes. Marvel hasn't had a problem having characters under multiple imprints at the same time with regular 616, Ultimate, Noir and Max books so DC should be able to pull it off just having a regular DCU version and a Vertigo version. As for confusing readers I haven't seen anyone confused by Marvel's multiple versions so that really shouldn't be a problem. "

Your right that multiple versions can work since it does with Marvel.  John I believe is the only exception to this rule since his character is special when looking at north american characters, the fact that he ages in real time alone gives him something (a freedom) no other characters really have.  Having clones of him running around in the DCU, I feel hurts his 25 years or real time growth.

" @Silkcuts said:

" @pikahyper said:

" I don't see why JC can't be in both universes. Marvel hasn't had a problem having characters under multiple imprints at the same time with regular 616, Ultimate, Noir and Max books so DC should be able to pull it off just having a regular DCU version and a Vertigo version. As for confusing readers I haven't seen anyone confused by Marvel's multiple versions so that really shouldn't be a problem. "

Your right that multiple versions can work since it does with Marvel.  John I believe is the only exception to this rule since his character is special when looking at north american characters, the fact that he ages in real time alone gives him something (a freedom) no other characters really have.  Having clones of him running around in the DCU, I feel hurts his 25 years or real time growth.

What if he is an almost completely different character though? Different back story, different "powers", just a character loosely based on JC that looks similar but doesn't destroy his long standing Vertigo history. The target audience for a DCU JC will not be the same as a Vertigo JC so if they changed him drastically but kept the same powerful magic user premise it should be fine, similar to how the Vertigo Sandman/Morpheus is completely different from the standard classic DCU Sandman, mutually exclusive characters but when needed they have been linked when it serves a purpose. "

"

"

" There have been different versions, none ever caught on.  The Bad Blood John for example, with the scar on the current Vertigo version, it is impossible for the Bad Blood John to be the "Dark Knight Returns" John.  The Books of Magick: Life during Wartime "Lord Constantine" couldn't help keeping that series from getting canceled.  I did enjoy the C.O.D. John with blood with the power to tainted instead of heal, but having that John in its own universe, I am unsure if it could have the same depth of storytelling potential as Vertigo John.  DC doesn't really do alt versions well.  All-star Superman was just a maxi.  All-star Batman.... we all know what happened there.  Most Elseworlds are forgotten.  Alt DCU characters just don't have the same impact.  When I feel in love with the DCU, it was because it was about the stories and the mediums potential, while Marvel went the other direction to sell the characters, rather then the stories.   DC's current problem is they forgot their roots and is trying to copy Marvel's methods. "

" @Roxanne Starr: Over at Comics Alliance. com, They have great articles and are faster with news than the Vine. But they don't have the great people here.

"

" @Silkcuts said:

" There have been different versions, none ever caught on.  The Bad Blood John for example, with the scar on the current Vertigo version, it is impossible for the Bad Blood John to be the "Dark Knight Returns" John.  The Books of Magick: Life during Wartime "Lord Constantine" couldn't help keeping that series from getting canceled.  I did enjoy the C.O.D. John with blood with the power to tainted instead of heal, but having that John in its own universe, I am unsure if it could have the same depth of storytelling potential as Vertigo John.  DC doesn't really do alt versions well.  All-star Superman was just a maxi.  All-star Batman.... we all know what happened there.  Most Elseworlds are forgotten.  Alt DCU characters just don't have the same impact.  When I feel in love with the DCU, it was because it was about the stories and the mediums potential, while Marvel went the other direction to sell the characters, rather then the stories.   DC's current problem is they forgot their roots and is trying to copy Marvel's methods. "

Isn't that kind of the point though, a DCU version of JC doesn't have to last, of course he won't have the depth potential but he won't be traipsing around the DCU for more then a few months probably, they only used Death for a single issue didn't they? Swamp Thing probably won't last long, at most they will give him a four issue mini and it won't sell well just like all Swamp Thing volumes and he'll disappear again. It's completely insane that DC would destroy 20+ years of a characters history and cancel his book just to use him in the DCU for a couple months and forget about him. "

" @Silkcuts:  very true but better to have a second throwaway cut up version in the DCU then to lose JC completely at Vertigo "