Silkcuts

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Baddamdog

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Edited By Baddamdog

Such a shame, the art and covers are really beautiful and the writings not bad either. Seriously bad form from DC here

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Darkchild

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@Silkcuts: bastard. Again Didio f@#ks the fans
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Edited By ForbushBug

So getting canceled for low sales (which it has) and having the character forgotten about would somehow be better? I know all the cool kids love to hate Didio but it looks like there's a plan here.

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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@Baddamdog said:
" Such a shame, the art and covers are really beautiful and the writings not bad either. Seriously bad form from DC here "
DC is really showing no class... I can see why Rucka, Brubaker and Aaron left.  I can understand why Alan Moore hates them.  Matt Wagner is great.  Why are they not giving him more of a push?  I guess they just wanted the Character back. 
 
@Darkchild said:
" @Silkcuts: bastard. Again Didio f@#ks the fans "

He is power hungry I tell you.  Why not cancel Booster Gold?  Those sales can't be much better.  The product as well can't be as good.
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Darkchild

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Edited By Darkchild
@Silkcuts: Agreed, Booster was really fun to read early on now its just bleh. I LOVE BOOSTER and for me to say that the comic is weak now takes alot, so why not take him down an put him in the JLA WERE HE BELONGS! 
 
Also this disdain for Didio comes from him killing off Ted. Sole reason i despise the man...well their are other reasons i do but this ones on the top
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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@ForbushBug said:
" So getting canceled for low sales (which it has) and having the character forgotten about would somehow be better? I know all the cool kids love to hate Didio but it looks like there's a plan here. "
Sure there is a plan.  Is it a good one... that is early to say if its good or bad.  
Honestly have you been reading MX?  It was a great story and the way it was being written it could still work in the plans since they were allowing cross-over of characters.  This was simple greed on Didio. The Sales were not that bad.  I am sure there was lower sales in the DCU that were not touched.
 
The character was forgotten sure, but that is what Wagner was doing, he was creating depth to Madame Xanadu.  If she comes back to the DCU she better not be a shallow character again. If so, then we all as comic readers was robbed of something special.
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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@Darkchild said:
" @Silkcuts: Agreed, Booster was really fun to read early on now its just bleh. I LOVE BOOSTER and for me to say that the comic is weak now takes alot, so why not take him down an put him in the JLA WERE HE BELONGS!  Also this disdain for Didio comes from him killing off Ted. Sole reason i despise the man...well their are other reasons i do but this ones on the top "
I know Didio help make the TV show Reboot back in the 90s, but did he even read comics?  If so, there is not way he read comics in the 90s when he was making kid cartoons... because he must have some sort of hate for Vertigo.
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@Silkcuts: Agreed hes a pompous prick who has no idea what the fan wants in its comics. Sometimes he hits gold an its fine we love it but most of the time in the past years hes screwed us.
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Silkcuts

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@Darkchild said:
" @Silkcuts: Agreed hes a pompous prick who has no idea what the fan wants in its comics. Sometimes he hits gold an its fine we love it but most of the time in the past years hes screwed us. "
Making him co-publisher gave him too much power. 
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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@aztek the lost:  I loved the Wildstorm comment, because its true.
 
Madame Xanadu never got the sales push as other series have.  Wagner is a respected writer and a great one at that.  I hope he doesn't walk away from DC with bad blood.... DC needs to get its $h!+ in check. Vertigo is being miss handled.  Give Neil Gaiman Karen Berger's job and Berger should of be a co-publisher since she spearheaded the British Invasion which started the Mature comics in the first place.
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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@aztek the lost said:
" @Darkchild said:
" @Silkcuts: Agreed hes a pompous prick who has no idea what the fan wants in its comics. Sometimes he hits gold an its fine we love it but most of the time in the past years hes screwed us. "
how many signatures do you think we'd need to make sure he loses his job? "
The three of us for sure on on the list.
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@aztek the lost said:
" @Silkcuts: well he may not hate them entirely but that's because the idea was pitched to him rather then him pitching the idea but if he does wash his hands of DC, I can certainly understand why  I should've known I'd live to see the day when good comics were canceled one after the other so sh!t could be mass produced in their place...of course we all know the WildStorm line won't be canceled because Jim Lee is in a position of power...twisted system "
" you know this means they've canceled more titles this year then they've launched... "
Its stupid politics!  I am not hating on Wildstorm, but you made good points.  Jsut because Jim Lee is a big head now his baby is protected.  But besides the random 1 or 2 series, the imprint doesn't do that well at all.
 
Yeah.. Vertigo is cutting back....  Who is Next?  DMZ? Northlanders? Scalped?  If Hellblazer gets canceled I think I am going to sell all my DC comics and start reading real books and giving up on comics.  Imagine Matty Roth getting hired to work with Clark Kent at the Daily Planet?
 
American Vampire gets hardcovers and a $4 cover price while Peter Milligan and Matt Wagner get no love.... that is bull.
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Silkcuts

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@aztek the lost said:
" @Silkcuts: Don't worry, once Stephen King's arc is done, DC is going to drop American Vampire like a rock...(sarcasm and expletives deleted)...and I don't hate WildStorm either, they have good stuff...I'm reading their DV8: Gods and Monsters limited series and loving it but its sales were worse then Madame Xanadu. In fact come to think of it, all of Brian Wood's four titles from last month sold less then Madame Xanadu but he never seems worried about his stuff being canceled, does he have some sort of negotiated deal? I just hate the fact that the sales being low is a perspective thing...what DC calls low sales that require cancellation, independent publishers call their #1 hit.  But you know I've lived through all these cancellations so far, I'm just wondering which will be the one that finally has me giving up on comics. "
I hope that never happens... Comicvine will drop in its up keep drastically.  I know Cancellations are part of comic, but this year just sucks Vertigo-wise....  
Unknown Soldier was acclaimed, Greek Street had unlimited potential, Madame Xanadu was one of Vertigo's better books art and production-wise.
 
I like American Vampire so far, but your right, after King is gone... lets see the loyality.  Buy Synder is writing Tec.  So maybe his baby American Vampire is safe.
 
If MX got canceled in theory because its DCU connections, do you think HoM is next?  Or Willingham has too much pull?
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Edited By MajinBlackheart  Moderator

Son of a.......... 
 
First the Great Ten gets cut an issue and now this. When they did that with Great Ten, I dropped a DC title. This time I drop two. 

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Silkcuts

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@jloneblackheart said:
" Son of a..........  First the Great Ten gets cut an issue and now this. When they did that with Great Ten, I dropped a DC title. This time I drop two.  "
I can't believe that they couldn't wait and let Great Ten get to 10 issues.  Madame Xanadu better be awesome in the DCU.
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@jloneblackheart said:
" Son of a..........  First the Great Ten gets cut an issue and now this. When they did that with Great Ten, I dropped a DC title. This time I drop two.  "
I still couldn't believe that. Why bother to drop it one issue, what does that do?
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Well, that's another series I liked...

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Silkcuts

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Edited By Silkcuts
@aztek the lost said:
if I had to list my five favorite Vertigo ongoings they'd probably be (and it ranges from month to month)  Hellblazer House of Mystery Scalped Unwritten Unknown Soldier  one of those has already been canceled and Scalped publishes so sporadically I can't help but fear it's coming to a close so if they cut HoM I don't think I'd have the same enthusiasm about new comics...of course reading old comics is probably just the way to go :(  well after King leaves they're raising the price, it's like they're asking for the comic to fail...idk...I personally don't know Scott Snyder from anywhere other then American Vampire so I'm worried they'll cut him short because his name can't support such high expectations from the execs "
Well I think it was you who told me there should be another annual with a Lucifer story, so HoM should be okay for now.  Unknown..... RIP.... and Scalped is the only Aaron book... since he is Marvel it wouldn't surprise me if Vertigo let him go.  I hope they are not that stupid.
 
I've only read AV as well Snyder wise.... but he is getting a push.  Dude got King on a book and the onyl Vertigo series @$4, plus hardcovers.  I hope he can win fans fast with Tech... he maybe the new Dysart.
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@Silkcuts said:
" @Baddamdog said:
" Such a shame, the art and covers are really beautiful and the writings not bad either. Seriously bad form from DC here "
DC is really showing no class... I can see why Rucka, Brubaker and Aaron left.  I can understand why Alan Moore hates them.  Matt Wagner is great.  Why are they not giving him more of a push?  I guess they just wanted the Character back. 
 
@Darkchild said:
" @Silkcuts: bastard. Again Didio f@#ks the fans "
He is power hungry I tell you.  Why not cancel Booster Gold?  Those sales can't be much better.  The product as well can't be as good. "
Aaron moved from Vertigo, not DC. Brubaker left because he had the opportunity to write his favorite character (Captain America), Rucka wants to do creator owned work something he can't do in DC or marvel.
 
Alan Moore hates everyone from DC and Marvel to his mother and puppies.
 
Matt Wagner has done tone of works for both DC and Vertigo, he has always also been able to do only one book at a time.
 
Booster Gold? The book is in the 30000 copies every month, it sells better than Vertigo's top selling book (American Vampire)
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@Nighthunter: Everyone of those writers was miss handled.  Aaron left DC in general, the Batman character may have been the only DCU character he had the ability to write well... and Grant Morrison is spearheading him,  Ed Brubaker left because editorial mandates messed with his characters when writing DCU stories and he just happened to be low enough on the totem that it was messing with him.  We also can't forget that he ended up moving away from the DCU into the lower sales books, and I admit Marvel was a better move for him.
 
Alan Moore is the greatest example of miss handled... would you honestly love DC if you were him?  Marvel he's being a little hard on maybe, but its just being screw so much why trust the big two?  
 
Fair Wagner can't write as many series at the same time as others, but Sandman Mystery Theatre and now Madame Xanadu now gone... I can't imagine another Vertigo series from Wagner.
 
Booster Gold sales shot up because of Blackest Night, it was stupid low before that.  It is also a series that doesn't do as well in trades compared to a lot of Vertigo series and the quality of it is no where the level of 2/3 if not all the actual writing quality of the current Vertigo stable.  I just tossed out the name Booster Gold because it came to be. But yes would be less sad if Booster lost his series compared to any of the Vertigo series that was just canceled this year.  Madame Xanadu is a better series... It sold better then the WSU series and a few of the other Vertigo series, it was punished because Didio wants all his toys back, even the ones that were lent way before they were his.
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@Nighthunter: Just wondering, do you really read any Vertigo?  If you say fables and leave it at that then I void everything you comment on Vertigo-wise since Vertigo is more then just its creator-owned work.  It had history.  I know you read Batman related books... but Batman is not Vertigo, so I was just wondering.  I mean no offense by saying void.  It is like me commenting on the WSU.  I only know a little bit compared the the real readers.
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@Silkcuts said:

" @Nighthunter: Everyone of those writers was miss handled.  Aaron left DC in general, the Batman character may have been the only DCU character he had the ability to write well... and Grant Morrison is spearheading him,  Ed Brubaker left because editorial mandates messed with his characters when writing DCU stories and he just happened to be low enough on the totem that it was messing with him.  We also can't forget that he ended up moving away from the DCU into the lower sales books, and I admit Marvel was a better move for him.  Alan Moore is the greatest example of miss handled... would you honestly love DC if you were him?  Marvel he's being a little hard on maybe, but its just being screw so much why trust the big two?    Fair Wagner can't write as many series at the same time as others, but Sandman Mystery Theatre and now Madame Xanadu now gone... I can't imagine another Vertigo series from Wagner.  Booster Gold sales shot up because of Blackest Night, it was stupid low before that.  It is also a series that doesn't do as well in trades compared to a lot of Vertigo series and the quality of it is no where the level of 2/3 if not all the actual writing quality of the current Vertigo stable.  I just tossed out the name Booster Gold because it came to be. But yes would be less sad if Booster lost his series compared to any of the Vertigo series that was just canceled this year.  Madame Xanadu is a better series... It sold better then the WSU series and a few of the other Vertigo series, it was punished because Didio wants all his toys back, even the ones that were lent way before they were his. "

The people that Moore dealt with during his time in DC aren't the same as the ones that are currently working, so its not fair to make that comparation. Who says that the ones right now wouldn't work well with him if he gave them the chance, he worked fine with Jim Lee when it was over at wildstorm, he just doesn't understand that there are new people at the helm.
 
Sandman Mystery theater ran for 70 issues, had a spin-off miniseries and one-shot. That a series ends doesn't always mean that the corporatives put the axe on it, maybe Wagner just thought that over 6 years of working on a character were too much?
 
It still sells more than most of Vertigo's books. Also why the hate on Booster Gold? Its not mindblowing stuff, but it is a funny comic, we should have some of everything in the market. I can't think of any other comic besides JL: Generation lost that can also be considered as a mainstream fun comic, is the same reason why even though Jonah Hex is basically in cancelation numbers it still keeps running, because in all of the three imprints of DC there isn't any other western and as far as I'm concerned as far as western comics are, Jonah Hex is by far the best  right now.
 
@Silkcuts said:

" @Nighthunter: Just wondering, do you really read any Vertigo?  If you say fables and leave it at that then I void everything you comment on Vertigo-wise since Vertigo is more then just its creator-owned work.  It had history.  I know you read Batman related books... but Batman is not Vertigo, so I was just wondering.  I mean no offense by saying void.  It is like me commenting on the WSU.  I only know a little bit compared the the real readers. "


I read vertigo yes, in tps but I do read it
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@Nighthunter said:
The people that Moore dealt with during his time in DC aren't the same as the ones that are currently working, so its not fair to make that comparation. Who says that the ones right now wouldn't work well with him if he gave them the chance, he worked fine with Jim Lee when it was over at wildstorm, he just doesn't understand that there are new people at the helm.
 
Sandman Mystery theater ran for 70 issues, had a spin-off miniseries and one-shot. That a series ends doesn't always mean that the corporatives put the axe on it, maybe Wagner just thought that over 6 years of working on a character were too much?
 
It still sells more than most of Vertigo's books. Also why the hate on Booster Gold? Its not mindblowing stuff, but it is a funny comic, we should have some of everything in the market. I can't think of any other comic besides JL: Generation lost that can also be considered as a mainstream fun comic, is the same reason why even though Jonah Hex is basically in cancelation numbers it still keeps running, because in all of the three imprints of DC there isn't any other western and as far as I'm concerned as far as western comics are, Jonah Hex is by far the best  right now.
 
@Silkcuts said:

" @Nighthunter: Just wondering, do you really read any Vertigo?  If you say fables and leave it at that then I void everything you comment on Vertigo-wise since Vertigo is more then just its creator-owned work.  It had history.  I know you read Batman related books... but Batman is not Vertigo, so I was just wondering.  I mean no offense by saying void.  It is like me commenting on the WSU.  I only know a little bit compared the the real readers. "

I read vertigo yes, in tps but I do read it "
Karen Berger is still the editor of Vertigo, Berger was Moore's editor, the players haven't changed much.
 
Aztek addressed the Sandman topic.  Thanks Aztek.
 
I don't hate booster, I said it because it came to mind. I agree comedic books are needed. The series got lucky because the blackest night tie-in brought in a lot more fans.  This success could be one of the reasons Didio and Johns think adding more characters to do more cross-overs could mean more money.  But a lot of Vertigo readers don't want crossovers.   By being a trade Vertigo reader I can only assume you didn't read Swamp Thing, Books of Magic, Black Orchid, Doom Patrol and so on to the point where there was the children's crusade.  Crossovers didn't work with Vertigo, another example is fables "Great" crossover....   
 
Guys like me and Aztek are upset with good overlooked series like Madame Xanadu being canceled because Vertigo as an imprint is not being handled right and this effects us readers because it is killing books we read and supported.... It makes being a real vertigo fan harder to be...  Vertigo is not just the creator owed works that became popular with the success of Preacher and Transmet.  It is also the ground breaking work of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.  The literary allusions to Dante's inferno with Grant Morrison's Kid Eternity. The life of John Constantine... a man who was given a gift most American comic book characters were not given... that gift was the chance to live and grow old.  Only Judge Dredd is the only other character I can think of given that gift.
 
If you were reading Madame Xanadu you would understand it is a shame the series ends this way.  You can read Vertigo in trades, I am glad you read Vertigo, but as for Love of the imprint... Pain is love and if this new didn't cause pain, then your love is not strong enough.
 
Vertigo was suppose to push the boundaries of storytelling.... Allow writers to bring growth to characters that had limited growth in the DCU.  Bring these character like Madame Xanadu back to the DCU limits their growth potential.  If you are no in the JLA you will hit a glass ceiling.
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NightFang3

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What is happing to my beloved Vertigo and DC comics!?  
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Silkcuts

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@NightFang said:
" What is happing to my beloved Vertigo and DC comics!?   "
Our old friends are dying so they can be recycled to sell to the masses :(
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@Silkcuts said: 
Our old friends are dying so they can be recycled to sell to the masses :( "
               
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@NightFang:  Your all money today!  Birth of Vader is like the what is happening to Vertigo, the old and good died and now an empty shell of once was walks in its place as the king of the darkside.....
 
I'll miss old school Vertigo... it looks like the imprint is being shaken drastically... Thank God the sales are better then Wildstorm... but Vertigo looks like a dying imprint, do you think DC may change its name since its all creator owned now?
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Edited By Dreamspinner

Oh no! I wanted to give this series a try soon! :(
 
Guess I still will, anyway.

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@Silkcuts: Thanks, I try my best. Hopefully Vertigo will find it's Luke Skywalker and be saved before I stop reading their comics. If anymore of these unholy changes to Wildstorm, Vertigo and DC keeps happing then i'm gonna pull a Dexter Morgan on somebody!
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@Dreamspinner said:
" Oh no! I wanted to give this series a try soon! :(  Guess I still will, anyway. "
You can still dude.  The first trade is like the origin series and is a great deal at $13 for a think trade.  The series starts back in the past and it works its way to the present.  Its a great series, I am sure it will still get a good ending.  Most of the hardcore Vertigo fans on the vine seem to have been reading it, so trust us, its good.
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@NightFang:  3 for 3.  The Dexter comment dropped me on the floor for a minute laughing.  I would so join alone.  The cardinal rule applies, they Murdered the innocent series such as MX and an unborn Swamp Thing Vol. 5.  So I set the kill room, you do the business? j/k
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@Silkcuts: Cool! I'll definitely check it out, then! I figure I shouldn't let bad corporate decisions keep me from enjoying a good series. ^^
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@Dreamspinner: It was a bad move since the sales were respectible when comparing it to the rest of Vertigo.  It got canceled because of a mandate, not because of quality or sales.
 
Madame Xanadu was a mysterious character no one really was attached too, but with this back story available now she is a character I love. If you check it out, tell me what you think of it.
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@Silkcuts: Thank's but I thought I would have to explain the "Dexter" thing to you at first. And the kicked out all the cool characters that would have made for great story telling if they had their own Vertigo titles. Okay but you pick the victims and i'll do the torturing, from the feet to the head (I like to work my way up, lol).
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@Silkcuts said:
" @Dreamspinner: If you check it out, tell me what you think of it. "
Will do (and soon, hopefully ^^)!
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@NightFang:  Dexter is like the greatest show ever!
I don't uses these boards enough, we should stop the joking right? I don't know if we'll get in trouble.
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@Silkcuts said:

" Dexter is like the greatest show ever!"

             I can't agree with you more. No, we wouldn't get into trouble unless we were serious. 
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@NightFang: I need to uses these blog/boards things more often.  Its nice chatting.   
Did you see the movie Gamer?  If so was Michael C. hall not the best part of the movie?