My heart is breaking....

 The famous second page from Murder, Morphine and Me.
My heart is breaking.... Breaking because I know that in  the great big picture of life, trends are that mobius strip of highs and lows in a constant tread of history repeating itself.  The 80s was likely the climax since many of the top creators were taking back the medium that was hurt by the Comic Code Authority. Most readers today would never have read Jack Coles' Murder, Morphine and Me, which was originally printed in True Crime and later reprinted in Jack Cole and Plastic Man: Forms stretched to their limits.  Comics tried breaking away and growing, people like Cole were pushing the medium forward.... then a halt with the focus to make comics for kids.  Then Alan Moore to take back the medium, make it for older people as well.  He came along to show guys like me that comics are a form of magick.  A method of communication that is like no other.  A disease of language if you will. Some writers got what Moore was doing and we have writers like Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis.... then there are writers that got inspired and missed the point, like Geoff Johns, who mined old Moore GL stories to reboot Hal Jordan... who was a murderer.... But it is Geoff Johns who controls the masses of comic book readers because many readers now are newer, younger or just read within of their comfort zone.  Part of the reason the industry has been dying was the 90s boom and the fact most people would rather watch a movie.  A theme of laziness is what holds the limitation of understanding the mediums potential. 

Many people can say they love comics, but to "Love" something you want to dive into it.  Submerse and bath in it.  Many people like comics, I'll give them that.  But not many love comics.  I can say I love comics because I'll read any comic and admire the magick on the page, even if a comic is bad I can see the good in it.  Comics can be a perfect balance of semiotics, with the dance of pictures to letters and that alone makes the medium special.  The problem is that semiotics are lost in translation and that is why the mainstream tends to reach a boiling point of maturity, then those fans grow-up, leave and new fans join who just don't get it when they start reading.  The mobius strip must now hit its low.....  This low is what saddens me most.... Mature, stylistic and sophisticated work does not sell anymore and the industry is dying because of it.  Comics have returned to its status as "Funny books".

G-Man wrote an Off My Mind: Will the DC Universe Be Rebooted Again After Flashpoint? Where I foolishly tried to strike up mature conversation.  I am not trying to pick on the said gentleman, no beef with him so in respect I censored names.  But I commented:
 

 @[Name censored] said:

@[Name censored as well]

said:

They need to change something but not rebooting the whole DC Universe.

exactly!
As long as DC is ran by Didio, Jim Lee and Johns they will try as much stunts to attract more readers.  Comics have gone away from the quality I once believed the mainstream was going to, now only few comics really have substance.  We can blame whoever we want, but the real problem is that the industry does not have the foundation it is suppose too.  Less people read comics now and those who do read vary in their ability to enjoy the medium in its maximum potential. I know this too be true when I can only read the Grant Morrison Batman stuff and supply incite no other reviewer on the comicvine really does... or few at least.  Then there are those who read all the Batbooks and need others to explain the layers.

Comics are more then just pictures and words or just pretty storyboards.  Comics is a language of its own and like any language there are levels of depths of comprehension. DC seems to want to reboot since they know most readers are like Dan Didiot, who has a shallow understanding of the potential of comics.  Most people will not read something like Alan Moore's Tomorrow stories and if they do would they understand how it pushed the medium once again?

The change must be in readers and the industry.

He later replied in private:

 Do you want some Cheese? 


And that is why I have such a negative relationship with the mainstream.  My Brightest Day #24 review for example, it supplies incite that the mainstream wouldn't know and since I love comics, it can be seen in the review.  I don't even care for the mainstream as much as most and that review is an example of how differently one can read a comic if their mind understands the medium to its maximum potential.   Two people did not recommend it and I wonder why?  Is it because it rocks the boat, DC is not making all the right moves?  Unlike [Name censored] I would love to call out those two who has problems with me, since they wouldn't even comment on the review itself.  Mediocrity breeds more Mediocrity and you can take that to the bank.  Certain people can hate, but one thing I know to be true, those haters have nothing on me.

All I ever really wanted to do on comicvine was inspire and at times I feel I have failed there.  I know I have succeeded in a few things, such as inspiring reviewers like Dark Noldor who's verity of books he reads has grown and now he has over taken me as #2 on CV's reviewer list, congrats friend.  I succeed by validating my opinion with the crown jewels of my body of works.  I have also succeeded on promoting my favorite character in John Constantine.  All those things are great, but their is that void in my heart... the part that breaks for the average reader.  Comics are so much more... and all I wanted most is to inspire.

Ever since my anni I have felt lost on CV.  I've been pushed away from the mainstream, which means I pulled myself away from most of you.  Sorry....  There will be the few books I monthly review (like Hellblazer and Morrison's Batman), but most of my focus will be simply other and that is if I choose to fight to even keep #3, since at her pace RazzaTazz will over take me by the end of summer, #4 is the number of death after all... Maybe I'll retire after that.  I feel my focus is leading me to writing my own graphic novel, only after being published, even if self-published can I complete my love for the medium.  That final piece may silence the void.

Cheers, your friend if you want my friendship
- Kevin "Silkcuts" Gorospe
34 Comments
34 Comments
Posted by Dark Noldor

Man I loved your comments of how Johns mined Moore´s work in the GL, it´s so true (and I´ve read just a glimpse of Moore´s work in this tittle) ans the whole semiotics thing (the got lost in translation was awesome) - Look, honestly, I know your passion for comics and I´m sorry that you feel this way, but I think (like almost everything in life) that the industry doesn´t have a focus or a main trend to be the foundation of comics stories, like in the 80s when drugs, sexuality and crime were trend topics, so the writers leaned in to these and the stories were almost everything about sex, drugs and crime - What are comics now? That´s a good question, and I guess there isn´t a reliable answer to that - Geoff Johns tried to bring to the table in BD # 24 a wake up call for the environment, I thought of it like a Green Wake or the Greenpeace´s victory in comics, but saving the planet isn´t strong enough to be a trend topic like when it happened back in the 80s - I´m truly honored to be mentioned by you and I hope that you don´t become a stranger here,´cause I would miss your advices and your good reviews! And I know that many people here love comics with the same passion that you do, the only difference is that they get happy with less and you need more - think about it :))
Peace dude

Posted by johnny_spam

Wow man sorry you feel lost in a world of products that are suppose to be fun. I think many actually feel the same way you do as well. The argument so many mainstream comics are not that entertaining is very valid but also I sometimes wonder if the fanbase they are made for has affected it the books that get so much love online are not read or bought while the stuff they hate is what sells so much the only option is to write in that way. It's not just comics I have noticed tv, movies, music everyone is complaining that nothing is living up to what it could be and so many things feel like they are shrinking in both market and creativity. We can only hope that some day sooner rather than later that comics mostly mainstream can draw attention again I think when the market is healthy and has more blood in it's veins that so many readers and even writers take a chance at something different. That is to say there are not good books being published right now it just feels that if more were reading more writers would be inspired to take such risks.  As for the whole Comics sufferings because of laziness? I thought the same thing I see how fast and quick entertainment has become and how fast it is too consume that it may not interest most people as they'd have to slow down when it is easier to do something fast and quick on their phone. I wonder if the way people absorb and pay attention to things are changing so much that the idea of taking in comics looking at all that is happening in the page is what is being lost.

Good luck with your book man. (I guess I am lame but I didn't like Tomorrow Stories.)

Posted by turoksonofstone

We must blaze our own trail in the final days of the printed page. 
Do not be discouraged. The Digital Age of comics is Dawning! 
And we the Veterans and carryovers of the Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Modern ages are burdened with fomenting our passions history. 
 
How much fail before the inevitable success? 
If I can enlighten or enhance just one fellow reader's perception of the form... 
you know what I mean. 

Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

Why be original or daring when you can be popular? 
 
With the exception of Grant Morrison's work, DC and Marvel have both hit intellectual low points, but now it seems Vertigo may be raped in order to appeal to the same unsophisticated masses as Green Lantern V4 and Bendis' Avengers. It's sad, but as usual, it comes down to the fact that people would rather make money than ideas.

Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir
Posted by Silkcuts
@Dark Noldor said:
Man I loved your comments of how Johns mined Moore´s work in the GL, it´s so true (and I´ve read just a glimpse of Moore´s work in this tittle) ans the whole semiotics thing (the got lost in translation was awesome) - Look, honestly, I know your passion for comics and I´m sorry that you feel this way, but I think (like almost everything in life) that the industry doesn´t have a focus or a main trend to be the foundation of comics stories, like in the 80s when drugs, sexuality and crime were trend topics, so the writers leaned in to these and the stories were almost everything about sex, drugs and crime - What are comics now? That´s a good question, and I guess there isn´t a reliable answer to that - Geoff Johns tried to bring to the table in BD # 24 a wake up call for the environment, I thought of it like a Green Wake or the Greenpeace´s victory in comics, but saving the planet isn´t strong enough to be a trend topic like when it happened back in the 80s - I´m truly honored to be mentioned by you and I hope that you don´t become a stranger here,´cause I would miss your advices and your good reviews! And I know that many people here love comics with the same passion that you do, the only difference is that they get happy with less and you need more - think about it :))Peace dude
I only speak trues.  Johns mined Moore, that is a fact.  What I admire most about our friendship is that we can be honest, you were one of the first people to know my name... why because you asked.  I hear what you are saying, but in some ways it stresses the fact that money is what drives most business and not the art.  Most people cannot see past the shallow part of the pool and the medium is suffering because of it.  I don't know what my future will hold, but I know that my passion is different then most.  I can be happy with little, I know a Johan Hex story from Jimmy and Justin will be classic cowboy drama.  I know Booster Gold will make me laugh.  Variety is what separates guys like me from most.
 
@johnny spam said:
Wow man sorry you feel lost in a world of products that are suppose to be fun. I think many actually feel the same way you do as well. The argument so many mainstream comics are not that entertaining is very valid but also I sometimes wonder if the fanbase they are made for has affected it the books that get so much love online are not read or bought while the stuff they hate is what sells so much the only option is to write in that way. It's not just comics I have noticed tv, movies, music everyone is complaining that nothing is living up to what it could be and so many things feel like they are shrinking in both market and creativity. We can only hope that some day sooner rather than later that comics mostly mainstream can draw attention again I think when the market is healthy and has more blood in it's veins that so many readers and even writers take a chance at something different. That is to say there are not good books being published right now it just feels that if more were reading more writers would be inspired to take such risks.  As for the whole Comics sufferings because of laziness? I thought the same thing I see how fast and quick entertainment has become and how fast it is too consume that it may not interest most people as they'd have to slow down when it is easier to do something fast and quick on their phone. I wonder if the way people absorb and pay attention to things are changing so much that the idea of taking in comics looking at all that is happening in the page is what is being lost.Good luck with your book man. (I guess I am lame but I didn't like Tomorrow Stories.)

The hot word is "Products".  I don't see comics as products, I see it as a medium.  I don't think any of the greats would argue they are the same.  And who said comics are suppose to be fun.  Murder, Morphine and Me was from the 40s.  The acclaimed work is over-looked because that is the work that takes that much more to understand, this is why people watch easy to digest TV and read fluff. The only way for comics to grab attention again is for the current readership to grow up like they were when Moore was warping minds.  "Information"..... the hot word from the Prisoner.  There are some who want information, some that don't. What is true, not everyone will have access to it.  When I said I want to inspire, that is what I wanted to do.  help break a little bit more of the door between information and ignorance. 
Its cool if you didn't like the Tomorrow Stories, you gave it a shot, that is what matters.  I mention it because the there is one of the Grey shirt stories that is a prime example that the medium can be more then just panels.  What Moore does in an anthology work, would me most writers crown achievements. All I know is most writers don't push the medium anymore.
Posted by Silkcuts
@johnny spam said:
Good luck with your book man. (I guess I am lame but I didn't like Tomorrow Stories.)
Thanks man.
 
@turoksonofstone said:
We must blaze our own trail in the final days of the printed page. Do not be discouraged. The Digital Age of comics is Dawning! And we the Veterans and carryovers of the Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Modern ages are burdened with fomenting our passions history.  How much fail before the inevitable success? If I can enlighten or enhance just one fellow reader's perception of the form... you know what I mean. 

Spoken like my true peer.  I know who understand my pain and frustration.  The only problem is I don't like digital comics.  I love the feel of paper in my hands.  But I do know what you mean, thanks for always being someone I can talk to who loves comics like I do.
 
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Why be original or daring when you can be popular?   With the exception of Grant Morrison's work, DC and Marvel have both hit intellectual low points, but now it seems Vertigo may be raped in order to appeal to the same unsophisticated masses as Green Lantern V4 and Bendis' Avengers. It's sad, but as usual, it comes down to the fact that people would rather make money than ideas.

Yup... Popular indeed.....
 
@Emperor Gonzo Noir said:
 This article made me think of two things. 
1. This comic.   



and 2. Marvel's chief Editor Tom Breevort said that  
  

 
 http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/05/11/angry-comic-book-fans-sales/

^_^ 
it is always a treat when you supply other peoples comics and quotes...lol
Posted by Hawkeye446
@Silkcuts
 

Truly Inspirational man. This is what Comics is about. I still can't believe you are considering Leaving the Vine.. *sigh*
Posted by Silkcuts
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts
Truly Inspirational man. This is what Comics is about. I still can't believe you are considering Leaving the Vine.. *sigh*
Thank you kindly.  I only try to be truthful.  Think of it as me considering on changing my focus. 
Posted by Hawkeye446
@Silkcuts
Well I look forward to your Graphic Novel then! It best be good! :D
Posted by BKole

I know exactly what you're saying here, the state of the medium, or at least the American Mainstream medium, is basically flushing itself down the bog with all the other turds to accompany it. I don't want to read about another bloody event involving EVERYONE EVER TO BE IN COMICS so close after the last one. It will only bring more of the same "nothing will ever be the same again" comments that are meaningless. 
 
Marvel tried something different by republishing Euro comics in English, and that directive appears to have failed. People don't want to read them in America for some reason because they hold something different to other comics, there's intelligence and grit and reality in them that you don't find in American hero comics. You find grit and grim and all that realistic stuff but it ISN'T THE SAME portrayal of stark reality. It's a hypo-realistic reality where the bad stuff is EVEN WORSE and the good stuff is ignored because it ain't great. When you read the failed experience of variety and diversity in comics, Crossgen and Milestone, they read better and burn harder and brighter than other mainstream counterparts. 
 
I try to test out everything as well as hero comics, because I want to be challenged and I want to understand comics the way they should be understood. I have my girlfriend peddling all ages comics to her kids at school because at least some of them will grow up and explore comics the way we are. I've got next to my bed League of Extrodinary Gentlemen Black Dossier, Essential Defenders, Scott McClouds Understanding comics and a Graphic Novel book from the English publisher Comi.x called .45. 
 
To know comics, and to read comics is to be a comic fan. Everyone else is just a fan of superheroes.

Posted by Baddamdog

Wow, really good article dude, I've only read a few Vertigo titles but want to submerse more into its world, but I don't know where to start or what's good half the time, plus sometimes they're so gosh darn expensive lol

Posted by The Devil Tiger
@Silkcuts
I so much understand you. 
 
It's been so long I dropped the mainstream comics and considering doing also with the Vine because I was frustrated with the editors line. So much has changed since the 90's, and yet I had the feeling it has only changed for the worse : storyline running in a circle. Truth is, my feeling is bad about the market of mainstream comics, because Marvel and DC are building their strategy on the ground that their readers are between 12 and 18 and fact is, and truth is, this kind of people are no longer the absolute majority of their demography. 
 
They have loosing most of their readership because on the way, it was growing more mature, and probably tired of status quo worshipping and Marvel/DC aren't and yet, they persevere, and wonder why their sales plummet... 
 
I still get on the Vine, because, let's be honest, I love it here, but every time I hear "Nothing will be the same." and all that stuff, I can't get hold on a bitter smile on my face.  
 
Well, your post is refreshing by its clarity.
Posted by Silkcuts
@BKole said:
I know exactly what you're saying here, the state of the medium, or at least the American Mainstream medium, is basically flushing itself down the bog with all the other turds to accompany it. I don't want to read about another bloody event involving EVERYONE EVER TO BE IN COMICS so close after the last one. It will only bring more of the same "nothing will ever be the same again" comments that are meaningless.  Marvel tried something different by republishing Euro comics in English, and that directive appears to have failed. People don't want to read them in America for some reason because they hold something different to other comics, there's intelligence and grit and reality in them that you don't find in American hero comics. You find grit and grim and all that realistic stuff but it ISN'T THE SAME portrayal of stark reality. It's a hypo-realistic reality where the bad stuff is EVEN WORSE and the good stuff is ignored because it ain't great. When you read the failed experience of variety and diversity in comics, Crossgen and Milestone, they read better and burn harder and brighter than other mainstream counterparts.  I try to test out everything as well as hero comics, because I want to be challenged and I want to understand comics the way they should be understood. I have my girlfriend peddling all ages comics to her kids at school because at least some of them will grow up and explore comics the way we are. I've got next to my bed League of Extrodinary Gentlemen Black Dossier, Essential Defenders, Scott McClouds Understanding comics and a Graphic Novel book from the English publisher Comi.x called .45.  To know comics, and to read comics is to be a comic fan. Everyone else is just a fan of superheroes.
I know you feel me and I am glad you commented because I implied the difference.  A Comic fan will read the medium.  Most people read the characters and their drama.  You just said it in less words...lol
 
@Baddamdog said:
Wow, really good article dude, I've only read a few Vertigo titles but want to submerse more into its world, but I don't know where to start or what's good half the time, plus sometimes they're so gosh darn expensive lol

Expense is a problem I understand that.  Most libraries for example will carry Neil Gaiman's Sandman and some of Moore's less Superhero stuff.  My collection too years to make and a lot of hunting and bargaining for the rarer books.  I would gladly give up my Jeph Loeb books for books of Peter Milligan I don't have, as am example of priority of what I must read.  But that is just me.
 
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Well I look forward to your Graphic Novel then! It best be good! :D

I hope I can pull it off.  I want the visual puns and structure of V for Vendetta, mixed with the layers and research of From Hell.
 
@The Devil Tiger said:
@Silkcuts: I so much understand you.  It's been so long I dropped the mainstream comics and considering doing also with the Vine because I was frustrated with the editors line. So much has changed since the 90's, and yet I had the feeling it has only changed for the worse : storyline running in a circle. Truth is, my feeling is bad about the market of mainstream comics, because Marvel and DC are building their strategy on the ground that their readers are between 12 and 18 and fact is, and truth is, this kind of people are no longer the absolute majority of their demography.  They have loosing most of their readership because on the way, it was growing more mature, and probably tired of status quo worshipping and Marvel/DC aren't and yet, they persevere, and wonder why their sales plummet...  I still get on the Vine, because, let's be honest, I love it here, but every time I hear "Nothing will be the same." and all that stuff, I can't get hold on a bitter smile on my face.   Well, your post is refreshing by its clarity.

Thank you kindly sir.  I am glad there is "clarity".  I was questioning myself if I was not focused enough.
Posted by Hawkeye446
@Silkcuts
Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Posted by Krakoa

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I've been off CV for a while, and although disheartening, the general entropy is at the moment inevitable. 

Posted by Silkcuts
@Krakoa said:
I wish I could say I'm surprised, but I've been off CV for a while, and although disheartening, the general entropy is at the moment inevitable. 
You speak too smartly...lol
Posted by Roxanne Starr
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Or Silk could just stay away from the "Bright Lights" and just stay in touch by posting only on the Madame October thread.
 
No one can put on a killer Fashion Show like Silkcuts!!!
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Or Silk could just stay away from the "Bright Lights" and just stay in touch by posting only on the Madame October thread.  No one can put on a killer Fashion Show like Silkcuts!!!
I need the "Bright Lights" of the light bringer for my story :(
For sure the Madame October Thread is where all the cool kids play.
I can put on a fashion show?  I am not Paul Pope, I do have some killer Mark Gonzales adidas gear.
Posted by Hawkeye446
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Or Silk could just stay away from the "Bright Lights" and just stay in touch by posting only on the Madame October thread.  No one can put on a killer Fashion Show like Silkcuts!!!
Haha, you are really pulling for that thread :D
Posted by Silkcuts
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Or Silk could just stay away from the "Bright Lights" and just stay in touch by posting only on the Madame October thread.  No one can put on a killer Fashion Show like Silkcuts!!!
Haha, you are really pulling for that thread :D
Duder, it kind of is the hot spot.
Posted by Hawkeye446
@Silkcuts said:
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Hawkeye446 said:
@Silkcuts: Perhaps you should give Mr Moore a call, and he can help :D
Or Silk could just stay away from the "Bright Lights" and just stay in touch by posting only on the Madame October thread.  No one can put on a killer Fashion Show like Silkcuts!!!
Haha, you are really pulling for that thread :D
Duder, it kind of is the hot spot.
I know! I haven't had time to go back through it >.<
Posted by Roxanne Starr
@Silkcuts
 

Oh, shoot!

 
I was going to scan another song from the Alan Moore Songbook this morning, but forgot. :(  
 
And now I'm not home and will have to do a little more shopping for Memorial Day dinner and then.......sorry, Silk, it won't happen today (unless you have a song handy to scan).  Hint, hint.
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Silkcuts
 

Oh, shoot!

  I was going to scan another song from the Alan Moore Songbook this morning, but forgot. :(    And now I'm not home and will have to do a little more shopping for Memorial Day dinner and then.......sorry, Silk, it won't happen today (unless you have a song handy to scan).  Hint, hint.
I currently do not have a scanner of my own 
:(
sorry my dear, forgive me??
I hope you enjoy your day off 
^_^
I don't want to work today myself :(
Posted by Roxanne Starr
@Silkcuts
 
You have a job?  XD
 
This is really weird. I have never asked you what you do for a living...and that's a question that I ask everybody (especially people who PM me). I guess that's because I never thought that you were anybody else but Kevin. :-)
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Silkcuts
 
You have a job?  XD  This is really weird. I have never asked you what you do for a living...and that's a question that I ask everybody (especially people who PM me). I guess that's because I never thought that you were anybody else but Kevin. :-)
Yeah... I am a normal guy....
I have no clue where I found the time do all the stuff I have done to date on this site.
I am beat, don't want to go to the main job today, the part-time job held me later then I wanted last night and I feel like I have no more reserves.
Posted by Roxanne Starr
@Silkcuts
 
There's no future in working so hard for ComicVine, Kevin. There's no money in it...Remember?  LOL!
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Silkcuts
 
There's no future in working so hard for ComicVine, Kevin. There's no money in it...Remember?  LOL!
I know, it use to be therapy, since it is not as much anymore, I am debating on doing more for me, such as my book I want to write.
Yeah, I noticed the Vine hired a whole bunch of new staff reviewers... and it kind of is offensive since I think I am just as good or even better then them.  Those guys were outsiders as well as I can tell.  I earned my place on this site.  I really should step-back and only just keep contact with people via PMs.
Edited by Roxanne Starr
@Silkcuts said:

I know, it use to be therapy, since it is not as much anymore, I am debating on doing more for me, such as my book I want to write. Yeah, I noticed the Vine hired a whole bunch of new staff reviewers... and it kind of is offensive since I think I am just as good or even better then them.  Those guys were outsiders as well as I can tell.  I earned my place on this site.  I really should step-back and only just keep contact with people via PMs.

Or just chat publicly on the Madame October thread....since all the posters on the MO thread don't give a rat's a$$ about their professional reputations. None of us has anything to prove.  XD
 
I'm signing off now. Tomorrow is Another Day!
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr said:
@Silkcuts said:

I know, it use to be therapy, since it is not as much anymore, I am debating on doing more for me, such as my book I want to write. Yeah, I noticed the Vine hired a whole bunch of new staff reviewers... and it kind of is offensive since I think I am just as good or even better then them.  Those guys were outsiders as well as I can tell.  I earned my place on this site.  I really should step-back and only just keep contact with people via PMs.

Or just chat publicly on the Madame October thread....since all the posters on the MO thread don't give a rat's a$$ about their professional reputations. None of us has anything to prove.  XD  I'm signing off now. Tomorrow is Another Day!
I love how you can be so Frank with me
^_^
you make a good point. 
Tomorrow is another day tell Velcro I said hi.
Posted by Roxanne Starr

Wuff! Wuff!
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr: I like him already
Posted by Roxanne Starr
@Silkcuts said:
@Roxanne Starr: I like him already
Velcro wants to know your blood type, Silk. Some types are tastier than others. XD
Posted by Silkcuts
@Roxanne Starr: To be honest I don't know, but two of my ex girl friends say its sweet.