shroudofsorrow's forum posts

#1 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:


1) I don't know were you got Mace was a much better duelist then people Like Kyp or Kun, sure he's better, but the gap is nowhere near as big as you're making it.

I never said he was better than Kyp or Kun specifically, although that said I still believe it to be so. But I still haven't claimed he's better than either of them by an extreme margin. He is still better though.

That is a fair point. But I would argue those fights could likely go either way rather than a solid majority in favor of either opponent. Mace could, after all close the gap and press a saber duel.

Another fair point. I guess I just read what you and others have said a certain way. Based on what I read it sounded like to me (and I guess I misread) that you were claiming that superior dueling skill tended to matter more. But I suppose that with these examples superior Force power is more of a factor, so I'll concede on this point also.

#2 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011 said:


1) Luke Skywalker

2) Darth Caedus

3) Traya

4) Nihilus

5) Kyp Durron

6) Streen

7) Xesh

8) Vitiate

9) Darth Tenebrous

10) Darth Plagueis

11) Jaina Solo

12) Yoda

13 Revan

14) Exar Kun

15) Joruus C'baoth

etc, etc can all debatably beat Mace Windu. Some would borderline stomp him.

The one thing with this list is that it depends on if it's strictly saber duel, strictly Force fight, or all-out. A lot of these chaps are significantly below him in saber skill, and would lose in a straight-up duel. As for an all-out, superior dueling skill tends to matter more, so I would actually argue Mace wins a majority against many of the people just based on that. Though at the same time, anyone who is more powerful than him (not the same as being more skilled) could conceivably win a few if they kept their distance and abused Force powers (Traya, Revan, Joruus, Vitiate, Tenebrous, and so on). If it's strictly a Force fight then yeah, almost everyone you named would beat him. As to the people you listed who could win a majority against Mace in an all-out, I'd say that would be Yoda, Plagueis (maybe), Caedus, and Luke (More powerful iterations of course).

I'm wondering. Besides Dooku, who else is capable of beating Mace Windu? In terms of CW era I think it's pretty even with Mace, Dooku and Yoda. But in other eras I wonder who could outdo him.

My list (note this only includes who I think would win a majority in an all-out):

  • Anakin c. RotS/Late CW
  • Darth Vader
  • Luke post RotJ
  • Yoda
  • Sidious (Especially c. Dark Empire)
  • The Ones of Mortis
  • Abeloth
  • The Bedlam Spirits
  • Darth Plagueis
  • Darth Caedus

@bamapecan: Because that fight was too short to be conclusive of anything - perhaps too short to even say it was a stalemate.

Except lightsaber duels in comics tend to be pretty short in general. That duel didn't seem that much shorter than Mace and Dooku's fights with Sora Bulq. I think it's still worth noting. Especially since it does actually support your belief that they're evenly matched, as they fight to a standstill there.

#3 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

She looks like she could be Elektra. Seems like a bit of a waste to make her anything else...

#4 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio


#5 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@punyparker said:

  1. Funny
  2. Great costume
  3. Responsible
  4. Struggling
  5. Relatable
  6. Great villians
  7. Humble

And i can go on and on....

All of this^, plus...

  • The hero I most relate to
  • Badass and a Street-King whose metaphysical stats make him the superior of most other street-levelers, even other Street Kings.
  • The king of cool costumes. Seriously, I love almost all of his costumes.
  • Great supporting cast in addition to an awesome rogues' gallery
  • In terms of his origins, and the life he leads, much more realistic and relatable than many other superheroes. I actually consider Spider-Man to be more down to earth and relatable than Batman, or at least just as much.
  • Tragic and well-written origin story that has stood the test of time.

Yeah, long story short Spider-Man is my all-time favorite.

#6 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@intrepid37: So we're playing it like that eh? You prove to me that you're right because your insistence doesn't make it so.

I have not seen a single Star Wars book written in the form of the protagonist or a character narrating the adventure. The stories are usually told from the POV of a particular character, but that makes it a Limited Omniscience way of writing. It is still not the character in-universe saying "Character X is good" it's the story telling us that. So there is a difference.

I'm still on the fence concerning who wins this fight by the way, at least the sabers only round.

#7 Edited by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@intrepid37: No, some of them are. So my statement is not false at all. It depends entirely on the story. And there IS a difference between subjective in-universe accolades and objective ones. I'm standing by that.

Fighting evenly with Mace Windu is more impressive than being trounced by Agen Kolar and Count Dooku, both of whom are of a comparable skill level to Mace Windu. So that's why I see it as a low showing. Bulq is closer to Mace than Vos is to Dooku.

Granted, Bulq lost soundly to Dooku as well, but there is an interesting thing to note, and that's that Dooku has shown consistently that he excels against multiple opponents at once. Not only his fight with Sora and Tholme together, but also Anakin and Obi-Wan, Ventress and Savage, and Ventress and Nightsisters with lightsabers. Simply put, Dooku is better against multiple opponents. So there is that to consider.

#8 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I regard Vos' victory over Sora to be a low showing for the latter personally. That said, Kolar wrecked Vos with about as much ease as Dooku, suggesting a similar level of skill. And yes, he does have that nice accolade.

I'm kind of split here. The all-out fight I say Team 1 on the account of Dooku's force showings. Round 1 though to me is too close to call.

@i_like_swords: I take that statement with a grain of salt. Almost everyone is regarded as the best swordman/most celebrated.

I think I told you this before, but there is a difference between subjective in-universe accolades (Character X saying Character Y is good for instance) and an objective out-of-universe accolade (the book itself telling us Character X is good). Sora Bulq and Agen Kolar's accolades are largely the latter, not the former.

#9 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by shroudofsorrow (3159 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Well they are a couple years old. But yeah, they're reeking of ignorance. It's so hard to find a good SW debate on these forums.