Lumiya Respect Thread

Respect Lumiya, Dark Lady of the Sith:

"No, I don't miss my beauty, you fool, because it would have vanished by now anyway. Once I understood that my injuries freed me from worrying about such nonsense, I realized that I had a task that only I could fulfill."


With the advantage of his unfamiliarity with a lightwhip, Lumiya defeats RotJ Luke, an equal with Darth Vader, in combat:

Credit to JediXMan

Lumiya uses the exotic nature of her lightwhip to land blows on Nelani Dinn without effort. It is also stated that Lumiya was more skilled, as is already made obvious:

Nelani advanced. Lumiya retreated, slapping her thigh-digging her fingers through the cloth and into her thigh. She yanked, and suddenly in her hands was a whip. She flicked it back, preparatory to striking with it; its tendrils, for there were several instead of just one, spread out into something that moved like a weaponized cloud, some of them shining iron-like and jagged, some of them glowing like a lightsaber’s blade. Lumiya cracked the weapon forward; Nelani, her body language suggesting confusion as she faced this unusual weapon, twisted to one side, but one of the lashes, a metal one, grazed her face, drawing blood all along her left cheek. Nelani took a step back, shaking her head.


Nelani lunged forward again, spinning her lightsaber into a defensive shield.

Lumiya’s lightwhip flicked around the edges of the shield. Ends of several tendrils rapped into Nelani’s chest and right bicep, creating small blood and burn spots. Nelani cried out and danced back again, baffled by the older woman’s superior technique.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Lumiya and Alema Rar defeat Tresina Lobi, who makes use of both skill and unpredictability to make her two opponents hinder one another, but is ultimately defeated nonetheless:

The hum-and-sizzle of clashing weapons slowly brought her back to her senses, and she sat up to find Tresina Lobi spinning and parrying, slowly forcing Lumiya back, probing and feinting, trying to work her way past the crackling strands of Lumiya’s exotic lightwhip - and into the striking range of a lightsaber.

Alema summoned her own weapon back into her grasp, then stood and limped forward to help.

Lobi sprang into a backflip and sailed over a crackling whip strike. Then, as she was still descending, she extended a hand in Alema’s direction and used the Force to pull her into the path of the flashing strands. Lumiya barely managed to shut down the weapon before it struck, and even then the hot filaments cut through Alema’s robe, burning a rainbow of hot welts into her thigh and ribs.

Alema was still screaming when Lobi landed at Lumiya’s side. The Chev brought her lightsaber down, and Lumiya’s weapon arm-one of her many cybernetic parts - fell to the ground trailing sparks and hydraulic fluid.

Lobi reversed her blade instantly, angling for Lumiya’s torso, but Alema was already leaping forward to catch the Chev’s attack on her own lightsaber.

Lobi whipped her lightsaber around low, aiming at Alema’s knees and forcing her to leap back.

Alema pointed at Lumiya’s severed arm, then used the Force to send it spinning toward Lobi’s head. The Chev woman ducked easily, but that gave Lumiya time to call her lightwhip into her remaining hand and strike again. Lobi pivoted away from the attack. Alema sprang at her from behind, striking for the Chev’s thick neck, then cried out in surprise as a huge foot glanced off her ribs . . . and still sent her staggering back.

Lumiya seized the opportunity to launch a flurry of attacks, fanning the strands of her whip to make it more difficult to block, striking right and left to prevent the Chev from pivoting away again, slowly driving Lobi back toward Alema’s droning lightsaber.

Then, finally, Lobi faltered, gathering herself for a Force leap, but hesitating and retreating another step toward Alema instead.It was the moment Alema had been waiting for.

"You are good, Master Lobi - but not that good." Alema spoke in a Force whisper so soft that it was little more than a thought. "Even you cannot defeat two of us."

Lobi’s head snapped around, her eyes filled with confusion and doubt, and she spun into a whirling charge of crescent kicks and horizontal lightsaber strikes.

Alema held her ground, ducking a Iightsaber strike and letting a kick slip off her shoulder, then Force-slammed the hilt of her Iightsaber into the pit of the Chev’s stomach and spoke again in her Force whisper.

"No good."

Amazingly, Lobi stumbled only one step back . . . but that step was one too far. Lumiya’s lightwhip caught her across the back of the legs and severed them both at the knees. The Chev roared first in anger, then - as she dropped onto the stumps and pitched forward onto her hands - in agony.

It was a terrible sound to hear. Alema stepped forward and spoke once more in her Force whisper.

"There is no need to suffer." She swept her blade across the back of the Chev’s neck, and the head tumbled away. "Your fight is done."

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

Lumiya duels evenly with Grand Master Luke Skywalker:

Luke silenced the Twi’lek with a bone-crunching back kick, then hurled himself at Lumiya, both blades striking for the kill. He knew better than to think victory would come so easily, but he had to keep her attention riveted on him until Mara struck.

Lumiya’s counter was, of course, masterful. She flicked her whip at Luke’s legs, forcing him into a high somersault that bought her half a second to spin away. He came down a couple of paces inside the cantina, framed in the hatchway and facing the murky corridor where Alema crouched, hidden inside her Force shadow.

Alema could have taken him at that moment. She had the cone-dart in the blowgun and the blowgun pressed to her lips, and Skywalker was so focused on Lumiya that he would never have sensed the dart coming. That was what Lumiya would want, what she expected.

But where was the Balance in that? Luke Skywalker had taken so much from her-the use of her arm, her nest, her identity-and it would not be right for Alema to simply kill him. She had to destroy him, to let him watch Mara die first so that when he died, he would know that there was no hope-so he would know that Lumiya had won, that the Sith would have his nephew and his son, and that the Jedi order would die with him.

So Alema held her dart, waiting motionless while Lumiya’s lightwhip flashed again and again, keeping Skywalker framed in the hatchway for her, striking at his flanks and head to keep him from pivoting or somersaulting or simply advancing out of her line of sight.

Finally Skywalker feinted a leap for the hatchway. When Lumiya made the mistake of trying only halfheartedly to block his "escape," he made an unbelievable parry across his body with his short blade, then spun into a slashing, whirling advance with his long blade.

Lumiya had no choice except to retreat. Skywalker vanished from the hatchway and out of Alema’s sight, then the last of the lightwhip’s metallic strands whirled past the hatchway. A fresh chorus of screams arose, and a jet of blood arced out of the cantina to splat down in a line of elongated red beads.

When Alema looked back into the cantina, it was to find Mara crouching opposite her, just inside the hatchway and facing away. Half a dozen meters beyond her, Skywalker and Lumiya were fighting a frantic battle in the midst of the crowd, Skywalker trying to remain in clear areas so no bystanders would be injured, Lumiya working to keep those same bystanders in front of her so Skywalker could not attack without cutting his way through them first.

Now was Alema’s chance - but it would not be enough to simply kill Mara. Alema was a Jedi, and Jedi served the Balance.

As she filled her lungs, Alema was also reaching out to Skywalker, sharing with him all the sorrow and loneliness and despair he had caused her - the shame and hopelessness and unending anguish.

A bolt of surprise shot through the Force. Skywalker’s eyes widened and slid toward the hatchway - and that was all the opening Lumiya needed.

The lightwhip cracked again, wrapping Skywalker in a fiery cage of light and leather. The short blade went flying, taking along the hand that had been holding it, and Sky-walker’s robe fell away below the armpits in ribbons, leaving the air pink and smoky with blood and charred flesh.


And time was something Luke did not have. He could feel that in the fire eating his lungs, in the raw nettling of his flesh. His breath came in inadequate gasps, and his blood was bubbling from his side in a pink froth. He was calling on the Force to keep fighting, drawing it through himself faster than his body could endure, literally boiling his own cells. At most, he had another minute of fight in him . . . maybe less.

Luke had to end this now.

He blocked a pair of crackling energy strands with his lightsaber and flung them aside, then launched himself across a daqball table toward Lumiya. She countered by pivoting away, bringing between them a Twi’lek serving girl. He could have continued the attack, slicing through the chests of both shield and captor, but even desperate, he could not kill a hostage. He threw himself into an aerial cartwheel and came down on a slick, utensil-strewn floor squarely facing Lumiya.

Her hand flicked, and the lightwhip came arcing toward his head. Luke dropped to his haunches and let it crackle past overhead. Then, when Lumiya started to back away from the expected lunge at her midsection, he hit her hard with a Force shove and spun her half around. She crashed into a drink table and nearly fell, but quickly brought her hostage around to protect her from an attack.

Luke smiled and raised his arm, pointing his lightsaber toward the serving girl, then using the Force to wrench her free of Lumiya’s grasp, he sent her flying across the claqball table. She crashed down on the other side in a heap, screaming in terror but far safer than she had been a moment earlier.

By then Lumiya had recovered from her stumble, and the lightwhip was snaking back toward Luke. He sprang into a round-off, wrapping the tip of his blade into the crackling strands as he passed over upside down. He landed on the claqball table’s squishy surface and jerked backward with all his might.

And that was when his mangled body failed him. Instead of yanking the weapon from Lumiya’s hand, his lightsaber slipped out of his own grasp and went flying into the shadows. Luke cursed in disbelief-then rolled off the table in a backward somersault.

Even that turned into a disaster. He landed on the body of one of Lumiya’s original victims and-too weak to steady himself-hit the floor with an audible thump. He could sense Mara out in the corridor, concentrating intently on something, very frightened and urging him to wait for her, not to press the attack until she was there.

There was no chance of that. Luke’s strength was failing so fast that he feared Jacen’s betrayal would cost him his life. And when Lumiya was done with him, she would be free to go attack Mara, as well. His chest tightened with an emotion that might have been anger or sorrow or fear-and was probably all those things at once. Jacen had betrayed them . . . which could only mean that somewhere along the line, Luke had failed Jacen.

Lumiya must have suspected a trap, because when Luke failed to rise immediately, she did not rush to attack. Instead, she called, "It’s not too late, Skywalker. Let me kill you now, and everyone else survives. Even Mara."

"Very generous." As Luke replied, he was inspecting the cantina floor, searching for the shoto he had lost when Lumiya took his cybernetic hand. "But I don’t. .. think so. You can’t have . . . Jacen."

"Jacen?" Lumiya let out a cold laugh. "What makes you think this is about him?"

"Your involvement with GAG." He wasn’t having much success looking for his lightsabers; the blades had deactivated as soon as they left his grasp, and the cantina floor was too littered in debris and shadow for him to find anything. "Who else could give you ... an apartment? Who else could give you access to ... their files?"

Again, that cruel laugh. "Indeed." The lightwhip’s crackling grew deeper as Lumiya shortened the strands for easier control. "Who else has access to Jacen’s codes? Who else could give orders to GAG officers in Jacen’s name?"

The questions caught Luke like a kick in the stomach. He knew that Lumiya was only trying to hurt him, that her implications were likely more false than true. But the possibility explained too much . . . and now that he thought back on Ben’s behavior over the last several months, he had to admit that he had seen too much of that possibility himself.

Something crunched on the floor as Lumiya circled the base of the claqball table. Luke gave up his search for his shoto and began to look for another weapon. He had not brought his own blaster into the cantina, prefering light blades instead, but the body he had fallen on was almost certainly a spacer, and spacers always carried blasters.

"You’re lying." Luke found the spacer’s belt and followed it to a holster. "Just saying that... to hurt me!"

"Does that make it a lie?" Lumiya asked. "You’ve caused me a lot of pain over the years, Skywalker. What better way to repay it than bringing your family legacy full circle?"

Luke knew she was only trying to twist the vibroblade, to hurt him as much as she could before she killed him- but he stuck his head up anyway.

"Stop it!" he yelled, with real anger. "You’ll never make a Sith of my..."

Luke never had a chance to say son. All he saw was the bright glow of Lumiya’s lightwhip snaking across the claqball table barely centimeters above the surface, and he knew that his reflexes were just too slow right now, that he could not duck quickly enough to keep the whip from slicing into his brain.

So Luke simply fell backward, closing his eyes against the crackling glow as the strands swept past a finger’s width above his nose, bringing up the blaster he had taken from the dead spacer’s holster, allowing the Force to guide his hand, squeezing the trigger three times before he felt Lumiya’s shock in the Force, then squeezing it twice more before he heard her body hit the floor.

And suddenly Mara was screaming at him from across the cantina, flooding the Force with alarm. "Stop firing!"

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

Zekk states that he does not believe that a team consisting of himself, Jaina Solo, and Jagged Fel to be a match for Lumiya, claiming that she fought Luke to a standstill and that she is "Master level":

"I don't think the three of us are a match for Lumiya. She fought the Grand Master to a standstill. She's Master level. We're two Jedi Knights and one Force-blind space jockey."

Source: Legacy of the Force: Exile

Lumiya briefly contends with a bloodlusted Luke:

She drew back her arm and brought the lightwhip crackling through the air, missing Luke by centimeters. He lunged at her again and again, driven back each time. She'd slow sooner or later.

But so would he.

Then, as she began to raise her arm again, he ran at her, so close in that she couldn't get the whip traveling at its maximum lethal speed. He forced her back, step by step, as she tried to maintain the distance she needed.

One—two—three—four; she blocked him, handle held this way, then that, using the whip like a short lightsaber to deflect him, but Luke didn't pause or shift direction to wrong-foot her. He drove her like a battering ram toward the edge of the mesa, pushing her within meters, then a step, of the edge.

Lumiya held the whip handle in both hands like a staff and blocked his downward sweep. For a moment they were locked in a stalemate, pushing against each other and grunting with the effort, with only the sounds of exertion because they had nothing left to say to each other.

Her rear foot began to slide backward as she struggled for purchase. The edge of the mesa was cracked and fissured. The smooth glittering stone began to crumble.Luke reached out and caught her hand as she fell, whip tumbling and bouncing down the steep rock face into oblivion. He leaned back, all his weight on his heels, knuckles clenched white with the strain of holding her weight, and for a second he wanted to see her face dwindling as she fell to her death, mouth open in a scream, but that wasn't the way to end this.

"I'd never let you fall," Luke said, and pulled her back to safety. As she straightened up, he looked her in the eyes—calm, eerily calm—and swung his lightsaber in a single decapitating arc.

Now he could breathe again.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice

Force Speed

Lumiya evidently moves faster than Nelani Dinn, avoiding her lightning-fast strike:

She struck at Lumiya.


Nelani's lightsaber blow was lightning-quick, but by the time it landed the older woman had twirled to one side, positioning herself behind a bust. The glowing blade sliced off the marble top of the head of some long-dead Rodian scholar.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Force Sense

Lumiya Senses Jacen's anxiety:

"I could sense your anxiety."

Source: Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines

Force Concealment

Lumiya is able to walk in the Jedi Temple without being her dark signature being detected by anybody. Even Jacen Solo, despite already knowing Lumiya's true nature, had been unable to sense her true nature:

Lumiya walked beside him up the promenade leading to the Temple, and it felt as if she had cloaked herself completely. He could sense her unease, but any hint of darkness had been reduced to no more than the simmering passions found in any ordinary untrained human being. She passed through the huge doors of the imposing entrance and reacted just as any ordinary person with no Force sensitivity would: she stopped in her tracks and stared.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines

Jacen knows that Lumiya can hide in the Force, and contemplates that she is using it to the point where even Jacen cannot sense her:



She could hide in the Force, too. She thought he was letting his concentration wander. She probably couldn't resist finding out where he was going.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice

Battle Meditation and Coordination

Lumiya knows an extremely advanced form of Battle Meditation, allowing for extensive mental coordination and sensing that vastly transcended ordinary Battle Meditation:

Lumiya had promised him a battlefield awareness and judgment that made ordinary battle meditation look like a finger painting—to sense and coordinate by the power of his mind and will alone, a power that only came to fruition in the Master of the Sith.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Sacrifice

Force Illusion

Lumiya's greatest ability with the Force is the ability to create all forms of illusions, a technique she mastered. She also mastered Darth Vectivus's Force Phantom technique.

Lumiya created a Force phantom of Ben Skywalker that Nelani Dinn had been thinking was the real Ben, even though the two were hundreds of meters apart, talking to phantoms of one another:

"Where’s Ben?" Jacen asked.

Nelani shook her head. "We were separated."

"You were never together," Lumiya said. "When you were talking to Ben and he to you, you were actually hundreds of meters apart, talking to Force phantoms of each other. A trivial thing to arrange in this place, where there’s so much energy to manipulate." She returned her attention to Jacen. "Energy you could use, in the name of improving people’s lives, if you chose to."

Source: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Lumiya creates, sustains and directs hundreds of Force phantoms at once, in different shapes and sizes, across the galaxy. In the second quote, it is also seen that the "Nelani" itself was a phantom, which validates Lumiya's words above:

Above him, ten meters up, a pair of eyes stared down at him. They glowed blue in the reflected light of his lightsaber blade. They were not human eyes, but slitted and triangular.

Beyond them were more, hundreds of pairs of eyes, cool and unblinking.

Ben shook his head. He’d had that portion of stone wall in sight as he’d approached the wall. There had been no creatures there at the time. He reached out for them within the Force, and could feel them there, hundreds of them, strong in dark side energy."Not good," he said.

"Drop," Nelani said.


Now Ben could hear rustling, hissing that sounded like muffled, sibilant speech, from above - from hundreds of sources above.

"They’re going to swarm us," Nelani said. She sounded rattled.

As if her words were a cue, a form of permission, the eyes above suddenly descended en masse, pouring downward as if carried by a waterfall. Nelani’s lightsaber snapped into life, adding a yellow-white glow to the proceedings. Ben raised his own blade in a high defensive stance.

The first wave of descending creatures broke before it reached the Jedi, splitting into two streams, each headed a different direction parallel to the stone face. But two of the creatures did not veer away. One came at Ben, one at Nelani.

Ben darted to one side-or tried; despite having some experience in low-gravity environments, he wasn’t accustomed enough to them for appropriate movements and tactics to be instinctive. He pushed off but floated mostly upward, straight toward his attacker.

No matter. The creature - revealed in the light of Ben’s lightsaber to be a fleshy stretched wing with eyes at one end, a tail at the other, and a wet mouth toward the center of its underside, something like a mynock-flew straight at him. Ben swung, felt his blade cut into skin and meat, and was propelled back down by the impact as the two halves of the beast hurtled lifelessly past him, one to either side.

The soles of his feet hit stone again. He absorbed as much of the impact as he could with his knees and did not bounce up very far this time.

The two mynock halves were partly embedded in the stone, and as he glanced at them, they slipped beneath the stone’s surface like two halves of a boat sinking. They left nothing behind-no blood, nothing.

"They’re not real," Ben said.

"Projections of the Force," Nelani answered from behind. "So they can’t really hurt us, right?"

"Wrong." Her tone chided him. "You know better than that. It’s like saying A laser beam can’t hurt me-it’s only light, right?"

"I was just hoping."

"Oof." Nelani sounded as though she’d taken a shot to the gut, and her lightsaber winked out instantly.

Heedless of the swarms of mynocks overhead, Ben spun, the motion bouncing him a couple of meters up.

Nelani was gone. In her place stood Mara Skywalker. Her eyes glittered with anger and her body language suggested punishment to come. Her lightsaber, in her hand, was unlit.Ben floated back to the ground. "You’re not my mother," he said."Good," she said. "Then it won’t be a family crime to cut you down." She ignited the lightsaber, and its blade glowed red.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Jacen Solo comments on the fact that Lumiya is skilful in the art of forming Illusions:

Good actress. Lumiya’s skill at creating illusions extended into the physical world, as well.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines

Lumiya is able to form Illusions that look visually enhanced when viewed through reflective surfaces - for instance, a Mara illusion seemed to be more beautiful, have a deeper red, have less lines on her face, and so on:

Luke turned back toward the living room and saw Mara’s reflection staring at him out of a mirror. She seemed more beautiful than ever, her hair a deeper red, her face a little fuller and less lined.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Tempest

Lumiya can create realistic Illusions from the Dark Side nexus of the Home:

He’d known about her ability to project realistic Force phantoms from her home, an asteroid suffused with concentrated Force energy.

Source: Legacy of the Force: Exile

Lumiya uses the Force to create illusions of Klauskin's dead wife, making her appear to him at varying times, and after not being in view, vanishing into the Force. Her repeated usages of this technique causes Klauskin to become insane:

Lumiya gave Klauskin one last, sweet kiss as he stood on the walkway outside the mental hospital. The shaking her real body was experiencing almost reflected itself in trembling in Edela’s arms, but she maintained ruthless control.

Then she let Edela fade away to nothingness. Her consciousness roared back into her own body.


Matric Klauskin, former commander of the Second Fleet’s Corellian task force but for the last several weeks a patient in this too-sympathetic prison, awoke. The small room been given was, as always, dark and quiet, its few items of furniture reflecting white gleams from the city lights filtering in through the transparisteel viewport. Everything was as it should be.

Or perhaps not. The door was open.

He frowned. The door opened only when the doctors or nurses came for him, or when his caseworker from the Alliance’s naval administration visited to reassure him that all was well; they hadn’t forgotten him.

But now the door was open and no one was entering.He sat up, his sheet falling from his chest, and realized that someone was standing beside his bed. He looked up.

It was Edela. Of course it was Edela. His treatment here was all about his wife. Now she smiled down at him, patient and loving as always. Tonight she wore a shimmering synthsilk gown of burgundy.

She had lost weight, diminishing from the pretty but distinctly overweight woman she had been the last time he’d seen her to a figure he could describe as "pleasingly plump." The gray was gone from her hair, too, and he realized belatedly that she wasn’t just slimmer, she was younger, she looked as she had a mere five or ten years into their marriage."Hello, dear," he said. "You realize you’re dead."

Her smile broadened. "Of course I’m dead. I’ve been dead for years. But it doesn’t mean I don’t exist."

"Well, that’s the point, isn’t it? The doctors all say that you don’t, that your very existence rests only in my mind. But they say I’m getting better."

"I don’t exist just in your mind. I exist in fact. Phantoms of the mind can’t open a door and free you, can they?"

Klauskin looked again at the door. It remained resolutely open. "That just means I’m dreaming again. It’s really not open."

Source: Legacy of the Force: Exile


Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse Respect Thread (Supernatural)

This will be my first Supernatural respect thread. Originally, it was aimed at Death, one of my favorite characters. However, I decided to make it for all of the Horsemen. The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are abstract embodiments taken from biblical lore. In Supernatural, they can manifest as humans, but require rings to regulate their powers (except for Death) and their human forms become powerless except for teleportation with the removal of their ring (once again except for Death, who is unaffected by the lack of his ring's presence). However, they cannot be destroyed unless the very concept they embody entirely and universally ceases.

Note: There are no Youtube videos for several of the feats listed here. I will try to get a screenshot as quickly as I can, but until then, you will have to either watch the episode itself or simply take my word for it.


War is the embodiment of conflict and strife. He is likely the third oldest of the Horsemen, having being brought into existence by the Leviathans' conflict with one another as a result of Famine.

Respect War:

"You think I'm a monster. I'm jello shots at a party. I just remove inhibitions."

Super Strength

A bridge is seen to be broken at the beginning of the episode - War reveals he did so. It is unknown how, but as the personification of War, a largely physical force, it is likely War utilized his physical strength to break it.

"I really haven't had to do much - I mean, take out a bridge here, lay in a little hallucination there, sit back, and pop some corn, and watch the show."

Electrostatic Interference

War was able to cause communication systems across a town to become disabled.


War reveals that he can read Sam's mind:

Save your protests for your brother. I can see inside your head. And man is it one track city in there. Blood, blood, blood. Lust. Power.”


War is able to cause people in a whole town to hallucinate that the other side was possessed by demons, inciting a war:

An example of this, when he creates the illusion of blood on his face and then causes Rufus to perceive Sam as a demon:


Famine is the embodiment of true hunger and desire. He is likely the second oldest of the Horsemen, having existed at the same time as the Leviathans, who were depicted to be eternally hungry. Because of the vast modern agricultural improvements which largely prevent starvation, Famine does not affect as many people in the world as the concepts of the other Horsemen, and so manifests as a weaker old man who is crippled and must remain in a wheelchair.

Respect Famine:

"Doesn't take much - hardly a push. Oh, America - all-you-can-eat, all the time. Consume, consume. A swarm of locusts in stretch pants. And yet, you're all still starving because hunger doesn't just come from the body, it also comes from the soul."

Electromagnetic Interference

Famine was able to cause lights to blink out, with his anger.

Hunger Inducement and Amplification

Famine causes varying people across a wide range to be consumed by their hungers and desires, to the point of death.

Warning: Due to the graphic content, I will not be posting GIFs. I know most people are fine with the video, so go ahead and watch it if you are, but I also know some people who would prefer to avoid watching this, so in that case, please avoid doing so.

Famine afflicts Castiel, an angel, with his vessel's desire for red meat:


Famine is able to exorcise a demon out of its host with just a gesture.


Famine is able to devour multiple demons at once:


Famine is able to pull demons into his mouth:

Soul Reading

Famine reads Dean's soul to find out that he is dead inside.


Pestilence is the embodiment of illness and disease. He seems to be the youngest of the Horsemen, as the only species known to have been affected by biological or natural disease are humans. This means he was created after humans, and he is the youngest of the Horsemen as a result.

Respect Pestilence:

"Disease gets a bad rap, don't you think? For being filthy. Chaotic. Uh, but, really, that just describes people who get sick. Disease itself... Very...Pure...Single-minded. Bacteria have one purpose --divide and conquer. That's why, in the end...It always wins."


Pestilence is able to cause a massive swarm of flies to surround his car:


Pestilence's unlimited dominion over disease and sickness allows him to infect everybody in the hospital and kill them. He lowers the severity in the case of Sam and Dean, with them getting only major coughing which intensifies as they approach him. When they enter his room, they fall unconscious, and later, after regaining consciousness, they appear to cough up blood to some degree:

His power is enough to cause a depowered Castiel (an angel) to cough up blood by being in his presence:

Electrostatic Interference

Pestilence could not be monitored properly, with his face and ring always displaying static:

Astral Perception

He was able to tell Castiel was occupying a body with a look:

"Well, look at that. An occupied vessel that's... powerless. Well, that's fascinating."


After having his ring finger cut off, and depowered, Pestilence displayed the ability to teleport out of sight:


Death is the oldest and most powerful of the Horsemen, said to have existed at the time of God. According to himself, he will reap God himself at the end of time. He is the only Horseman who can function normally without his ring.

Respect Death:

"You have an inflated sense of your importance. To a thing like me, a thing like you, well... Think how you'd feel if a bacterium sat at your table and started to get snarky."


Death can instantly cause another being to die. He causes a man to collapse, dead, after brushing shoulders with him:

He threatens Dean with instant death:

"Try to bind me again - you'll die before you start."


Death resurrected several dead people in Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid, who then turn rapid. He confirms this in Two Minutes to Midnight:

"Hurricanes, floods, raising the dead. I'm more powerful than you can process, and I'm enslaved to a bratty child having a tantrum."

He also seemingly resurrects Dean, as Dean was scheduled to return after only three minutes of being dead, but instead lasts until seven. Later in the episode, when Dean asks him about the wall behind Sam's mind, Death says "Call it 75%", exactly what Dr Robert said when he was asked about the resurrection. Therefore, it is highly implicit that Death was the one who revived Dean, not Dr Robert:

Soul Manipulation

Death brings Sam's soul and puts it back in Sam's body:

Weather Manipulation

Death created lightning storms whilst he resurrected the dead.

He also reveals that he was responsible for the hurricanes and floods that attacked Chicago upon his arrival there. He then allows Chicago to stay because he liked it's pizza, indicating he could have wiped it out if he had chosen so:

"Hurricanes, floods, raising the dead. I'm more powerful than you can process, and I'm enslaved to a bratty child having a tantrum.


I suppose it can stay. I like the pizza."

Telepathy/Memory Manipulation

Death reveals that he can place Sam's memories of being in hell behind a wall, as he does later:


Death heats up his scythe to the point where Dean drops it:


Death teleports his scythe to him:


Death is able to teleport from some unknown location into Dean's afterlife immediately:

Death teleports from Dean's house to Hell to get Sam's soul back. He is the only one seen to be able to travel to Lucifer's cage without having the four rings, with the obvious exception of God:

Death teleports from some unknown point in the universe to behind Dean:

Cosmic Awareness

Death is aware of where Dean has hidden his ring without Dean's consent:

"Well, if you want it back - "

"I'm sorry, but you assume that I don't know where you've hidden it? Now we've established that you have hubris, but no leverage."

Reality Warping

Death creates an eclipse for Dean,Sam and Bobby's sake:

"But that door only opens in the eclipse. And that's over."

"I'll make another. 3:59, Sunday morning, just before dawn. Be punctual. Don't thank me. Clean up your mess."

Start the Conversation

Jorus C'baoth Respect Thread

Respect Jorus C'baoth:

"We are the Jedi, the ultimate power in the universe. We will do as we choose. And we will destroy any who dare stand in our way."


Telekinesis is the movement of objects and manipulation of reality through the power of the mind.

Jorus telekinetically catches a large missile in mid-air and freezes it in place, then Crushes the missile, causing its body to crumple in on itself:

Seated at opposite ends of the table, the mining and Corporate Alliance representatives had turned in their chairs to stare with a mixture of surprise, fascination, and terror at the missile that had intruded into their solemn proceedings. Between them, half risen from his own chair, C'baoth was holding a hand palm-outward toward the missile, his eyes blazing.

But the missile was no longer moving. It was frozen in midair, halfway between the archway and the table, its thrusters spitting fire uselessly as they tried to drive it forward against C'baoth's Force grip.

"Don't be concerned," the Jedi Master intoned, his voice resonating with power and authority. "So certain parties believe that they know best what is right and just for Barlok, do they? That killing us will bring them their desire? That the influence of violence supersedes the authority of justice?"

The thrusters gave a final sputter and fell silent, and still the missile hung in midair. "Thank you, Master C'baoth-" Obi-Wan said, starting toward the missile.

"Stand fast, Master Kenobi," C'baoth ordered sharply. "That is what our attackers believe, Magistrate Argente; Guild-master Gilfrome," he said, sending a hard look at each end of the table. "Do you believe it, as well?"

Argente found his voice first. "No, of course not," he said, his voice quavering, his eyes locked on the missile that had nearly brought a sudden and violent death to them all.

"Then why do you persist in eroding the legitimate rights of the people of Barlok?" C'baoth demanded. "And you," he added, turning back to Gilfrome's end of the table. "Why do you persist in denying the time and expense the Corporate Alliance has spent in developing resources that would otherwise have forever lain uselessly beneath the soil of your world?"

Gilfrome bristled. "Now, see here, Master C'baoth-"

"No, you see," C'baoth cut in, looking again at Argente. "Both of you see. I have listened to your arguments and your positions and your selfish pettiness. It ends here."

Deliberately, he closed his outstretched hand. With a raucous crackling of stressed metal, the body of the missile crumpled in on itself. "The people of Barlok demand a fair and just decision," he said, more quietly now as he gestured Obi-Wan forward. "I will tell you what that decision is going to be."

Source: Outbound Flight

Jorus employs some form of telekinetic restraint on Chas Uliar, preventing his mouth and tongue from working, as well as his legs.

Jinzler and Mitth'raw'nuruodo were coming toward him .. . and with the rest of the committee still absent, it was all up to him. Taking a deep breath, he opened his mouth to speak.

Or rather, he tried to open it. To his horror, his mouth and tongue refused to work.

He tried again, and again, watching as Jinzler and Mitth'raw'nuruodo closed the gap, his throat and checks straining with his effort. But nothing worked.

And then they were there, right beside him. He tried to step in front of them, to at least keep them here until he could find a way to unfreeze his mouth. But his legs wouldn't work, either. Silently, he watched them pass him by, oblivious to his urgency and agony and helplessness.

"So you think to betray me, Uliar?" a quiet voice came in his ear.

Uliar's neck still worked, but there was no need to turn around. He knew that voice only too well. "Did you really think you could ride a swoop all the way from Dreadnaught-Four without my people in ComOps noticing and alerting me?" C'baoth went on. "So will treason always betray itself."

With a jolt like that of a suddenly released clamp, Uliar felt his mouth being freed from C'baoth's restraint.

Source: Outbound Flight

Jorus casually opens a hatch on a shuttle:

"Jedi Jinzler," C'baoth greeted her. "I have another job for you." He waved a hand casually at the silent shuttle.

The hatch abruptly flew open, spilling Pressor and Mosh out.

Source: Outbound Flight

Jorus displays Force Choke on Thrawn through a video transmission, a feat accomplished whilst he was severely injured and apparently without the need to gesture (there is an illustrated depiction of the scene where he does gesture, but images aren't canon and are often contradictory to novel descriptions):

"Then choose your destiny," Mitth'raw'nuruodo said. "I'm told the role of the Jedi is to serve and defend."

"You were told wrongly," C'baoth countered. "The role of the Jedi is to lead and guide, and to destroy all threats." The unburned corner of his lip twisted upward in a bitter smile.

And without warning, Thrawn's head jerked back, his whole body pressing back against his seat. His hand darted to his throat, clutching uselessly at it.

"Commander!" Doriana snapped, grabbing reflexively for Mitth'raw'nuruodo's collar.

But it was no use. The invisible power that was choking the life out of him wasn't something physical that Doriana might be able to push aside. C'baoth was using the Force . . . and there was nothing Doriana or anyone else could do to stop him.

In a handful of minutes, Mitth'raw'nuruodo would be dead.


But for all the effect the attack had on him, C'baoth might not even have noticed it. His face remained as hard as anvilstone, his eyes burning unblinkingly across the Springhawk's bridge.

And Mitth'raw'nuruodo was still dying.

Doriana curled his hands into helpless fists. So it was finally over. If this second assault had failed to kill C'baoth, it was because he'd hidden himself well away from the vacuum that had now snuffed out all life in the Dreadnaughts' outer sections. Even given the thinner bulkheads and blast doors of the ships' interior sections, there was no way even droid starfighters could clear out the maze of decks and compartments in time.

An odd formation caught his eve as it shot into view outside the canopy: a pair of starfighters flying in close formation with a fat cylinder tucked between them. Not just one pair, Doriana saw now, but ten of them, heading at full speed toward Outbound Flight.

He remembered Kav mentioning this particular project of Mitth'raw'nuruodo's, and the vicelord's contemptuous dismissal of the cylinders as some sort of useless fuel tanks. Frowning, he watched as, in ones and twos, the starfighter pairs drove through the newly blasted holes in the Dreadnaughts' hulls and disappeared inside.

For a moment, nothing happened. Then, abruptly, a haze of pale blue burst outward from the openings, nearly invisible amid the floating clouds of wreckage.

And with a sudden gasp of air, Mitth'raw'nuruodo collapsed forward against his board.

Source: Outbound Flight

Force Meld

Force Meld is a technique that enables a group of Force users to connect their minds together to act as one person.

Obi-Wan states that a Jedi Master required great power and control in the Force to successfully utilize a Jedi meld without killing the others involved, or destroying their minds. Despite this, however, Jorus reveals himself as a repeatedly successful user of the Force Meld technique, shocking Kenobi, and would later use the technique successfully several times again:

"Experience is not always the most important aspect of combat," C'baoth pointed out. "Timing and coordination are also key, and no amount of experience can give ordinary gunners the edge that we already possess. Tell me, Master Skywalker, has Master Kenobi ever spoken to you of the Jedi meld?"

"I don't think so," Anakin said. "What does it do?"

"It permits a group of Jedi to connect their minds so closely as to act as a single person," C'baoth told him.

"It can also be very dangerous," Obi-Wan warned. "It takes a Jedi Master of great power and depth in the Force to create such a state without killing or destroying the minds of everyone involved."

"A Jedi Master such as myself," C'baoth said calmly. "I've successfully performed such a meld on four separate occasions."

Obi-Wan stared at him. "Four?"

"Three were training exercises, of course," C'baoth conceded. "But the fourth was under serious field conditions, with five other Jedi in the meld. As you can see, we came through it successfully."

Source: Outbound Flight

Force Sense

Force Sense is a passive Force power which enables a Force user to feel physical, emotional and mental traits as well as events.

Jorus senses malice directed at his ships and his people:

"No," C'baoth said, his voice dark. "I can sense a deep malice out there, malice directed at my ships and my people."

Source: Outbound Flight

Lorana Jinzler knows that C'baoth can sense her protest:

But there was no reply. C'baoth could undoubtedly sense her protest, but all she could sense in return was his indifference to her anguish, and his determination to continue along the path he'd now set himself upon. It was indeed too late.

Source: Outbound Flight

Barsen'thor Respect Thread

I've decided to move away from the KotOR era, and I'm slowly moving into the TOR era now. I'm deciding to create respect threads for the protagonist characters with whatever canon material I can find which obviously includes game cutscenes and sourcebook entries (the only one at the moment is the TOR encyclopedia, to my knowledge).

Note: Obviously nowhere close to finished. I'll complete it soon. I just need to get a start.

Note: For those of you that don't know, the Barsen'thor is the Jedi Consular protagonist in The Old Republic. I'll be referring to him both as the Barsen'thor and the Jedi Consular or just Consular, sometimes for ease of reference. He has no given name, yet. Of course, the Consular has no canonically confirmed gender, but I'll refer to it as a he because in the versus and class promotional trailers, BioWare's created character was a male, and so I'll use "he" as a reference, but it should be known that this isn't a canonically confirmed gender.

Note: I will be using feats from the trailer, which I deem as likely canonical enough. If you disagree, that's fine, but I do think the feats from the Jedi Consular trailer should be made available. The thread itself is not completed.

With that out of the way, respect the Barsen'thor:

Power and Skill Accolades

The Barsen'thor embodies true skill and dedication, and is a powerful Jedi who has exceptional achievements which impress the Jedi Council:

Embodying true skill and dedication, the padawan confronts the spirit of an ancient Jedi known as Rajivari and defeats a vengeful young man who had pledged himself to Rajivari's teachings. Impressed by these exceptional achievements, the Jedi Council promotes Yuon's Padawan to full membership as the Orders newest Consular. However, this powerful Jedi's adventures have only begun...

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

The Barsen'thor is a gifted padawan:

In a time of great turmoil across the galaxy, a gifted Padawan travels to the Jedi's ancient homeworld of Tython to complete the final trials and become a fully fledged Jedi.

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

Yuon Par remarks that the Consular was stronger in the Force at four than she was at fifteen:

A Jedi who was stronger in the Force at four than I was at fifteen?

Source: The Old Republic

Qyzen Fess is impressed enough by the Consular's power and skill that he deems him as the Herald of his goddess:

"I have been fool. Spoke false. You are no small hunter. Cannot be other. Scorekeeper has seen. Chosen for greatest honor. You are Herald of Scorekeeper. Chosen one, Herald. Of great power, skill, honor, Scorekeeper sees and favors."

Source: The Old Republic

The Barsen'thor is a master of the Force:

In a climactic final battle with the galaxy at stake, these two masters of the Force cross sabers.

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

Force Sense, Clairvoyance and Precognition

The Consular senses enemies behind him as he is meditating:

The Barsen'thor is able to sense that the troopers behind him are disguised spies for the Empire:

Force Speed

Speedblitzing a trooper:


One-shotting a trooper with a violent Force shove:

One-shotting a trooper with Force Push:

The Consular knocks out a Sith Inquisitor and three soldiers with a Force Wave:

Utilizing a power which is described in game as "Forcequake", the Consular quakes the floor whilst simultaneously generating Force whirlwinds:

The Consular lifts a large Colicoid up, then slams it down whilst simultaneously knocking down a pair of smaller Colicoids:

One-shotting a pair of troopers by knocking them down with the Force:

One-shotting a commander by firing a Force blast at him:

Hurling an explosive canister at a Sith warrior with enough force to kill him from the impact:

Very early in his career, the Consular casually lifts up and throws over a huge distance a huge block of metal which is around the size of a bus (decently longer, but slightly shorter in height):

The Consular, just as early in his career as the directly above feat, uses the Force to blast open a huge blast door the height of a two-story building:


The Consular breaks through a massive blast door on Belsavis, which causes Geland, behind the door, to briefly cower/look away, and be shocked at the Consular's power:


The Consular stuns Syo Bakarn with a Force Push:

The Consular utilizes Telekinesis and possibly Barrier to repeatedly repel Syo Bakarn's attempts to slash him with a lightsaber, then utilizes TK to hurl him into a rock wall with devastating force:

Note: This is dark-side only, but it is at least proof that the Barsen'thor can accomplish such a feat. Also, it's never been revealed whether the Consular is light or dark-sided canonically at all, although presumably he is light-sided.

Force Stun

Stunning a Sith warrior:

Force Healing

The Consular heals a Nautolan who was knocked out by Sith Lightning:

The Consular heals an injured Republic trooper:

The Consular revives an unconscious and close-to-dead Hallow Voice:


Martial Arts and Strength

The Consular uses a quick roundhouse kick to one-shot a trooper:

Combat Skill

Defeating Nalen Raloch, the best duelist amongst the Twi'leks, whom had obtained knowledge from Rajivari's holocron, and whom had enough raw power to collapse an entire enormous cave:

The Consular defeats his own master, Yuon Par, after she is driven insane by a dark plague:

Defeating a mysterious Sith and his two acolytes:

Defeating master Cin Tykan, despite the Consular having already been weakened once by using the Shielding Technique:

Defeating master Duras Fain, despite the Consular having already been weakened by using the Shielding Technique twice:

Defeating Jedi Knight Leranna, despite having already been weakened by using the Shielding Technique three times:

(can't find a video yet)

Defeating master Eriz, despite the Consular having already been weakened by using the Shielding Technique four times:

Defeating master Sidonie, despite the Consular having already been weakened by using the Shielding Technique five times:

Defeating a possessed Yuon Par, even after all the usages of the Shielding Technique, and whilst Yuon Par was drawing upon the Barsen'thor's own power, and then defeating Lord Vivicar, the instigator of the plague, despite being terribly weakened as a result of repeatedly utilizing the Shielding Technique, which cost so much energy that its previous user had to sacrifice his own life in order to use it, and yet the Consular was able to utilize it six times, already a testament to his power, before defeating Lord Vivcar himself and then using the Shielding Technique a seventh time:

Defeating Darth Lachris, apprentice to Darth Marr, one of the most powerful Sith Lords in the Empire:

Defeating Commander Geland, a Child of the Emperor:

Defeating the First Son, the most powerful member of the Children of the Emperor whom shielded the rest from the Force Senses of the entire Jedi Order, and whom possessed comparable power to the Barsen'thor himself in being able to directly TK and disarm him. The First Son was also able to collapse portions of a huge cave ceiling:


Hero of Tython Respect Thread

I've decided to move away from the KotOR era, and I'm slowly moving into the TOR era now. I'm deciding to create respect threads for the protagonist characters with whatever canon material I can find which obviously includes game cutscenes and sourcebook entries (the only one at the moment is the TOR encyclopedia, to my knowledge).

Note: For those of you that don't know, the Hero of Tython is the Jedi Knight protagonist in The Old Republic. I'll be referring to him both as the Hero of Tython (HoT) and the Jedi Knight or just Knight, sometimes for ease of reference. He has no given name, yet. Of course, HoT has no canonically confirmed gender, but I'll refer to it as a he because in the versus trailers, BioWare's created character was a male, and so I'll use "he" as a reference.

Note: I will be using feats from the trailer, which I deem as likely canonical enough. If you disagree, that's fine, but I do think the feats from the Jedi Knight trailer should be made available. The thread itself is not completed.

With that out of the way, respect the Hero of Tython:

Power and Skill Accolades

The Knight is one of the strongest padawans the Jedi have seen for generations:

One of the strongest padawans the Jedi have seen in generations...

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

The Jedi Knight Derrin Weller immediately recognizes the Knight and claims his former masters praise his skills as a masterful duelist despite only being a padawan:

”Your former Masters praise your combat skills. They say you're becoming an expert duelist."

Source: The Old Republic

The Force is stronger in the Knight than any other Force-user Orgus Din has seen in decades:

“The Force is strong in you. Stronger than I've seen in decades.”

Source: The Old Republic

Satele Shan, the Grand Master of the Order, says that the Knight is the Order's greatest warrior:

“You are our greatest warrior… and our best hope."

Source: The Old Republic

Scourge believes the Hero is the finest Jedi:

"You are the Jedi's finest."

Source: The Old Republic

Strength and Martial Arts

Kicking a thug off a sail barge:

Striking Bengel Morr unconscious:

Force Speed

The Hero of Tython speedblitzes two Sith Warriors, whom were able to defeat Jedi Master and Council member Bela Kiwiiks:

The Hero of Tython speedblitzes two Sith Warriors, again:

11:46 - couldn't convert to GIF format without it looking ugly, but it's not as impressive as the feat above anyways, so it doesn't really matter.

Force Leap

A display of Force Leap:


Pulling down portions of ceiling to collapse four tunnels:

Displaying Saber Throw:

Dominating a near-dead Vitiate with TK, ragdolling him, then pinning him to the floor before casually dropping one of the ceiling's stalagmites onto him:

Note: I know this only happens in the dark side version, which is presumably N-canon, although there has been no official declaration of which side is canon first. And I stand by what I have said before - that even if he didn't actually do this, the feat should at least prove he is capable of doing so.


The Jedi Knight displays a Mind Trick on Sith Overseer Chaskar, convincing him to leave the scene:


Combat Skill

Outsparring a fellow Jedi and gaining the approval of the overseeing master:

Stomping a pair of Sith in combat:

Orgus Din is impressed that the Jedi Knight is able to defeat numerous swarms of flesh raiders with only a practice saber, and whilst merely a padawan:

”You held off all these attackers by yourself with only a practice saber? Impressive.”

Source: The Old Republic

With only a training saber, the Knight defeats a Dark Jedi Callef, who wields a lightsaber, along with a pair of Flesh Raiders:

With only a training saber and still a padawan, the Knight defeats Bengel Morr, the lightsaber wielding former apprentice of Orgus Din. After constructing his lightsaber, the Knight then defeats a jurgoran:

Defeating the Sith Lord Tarnis:

Defeating the Sith Lord Praven, who has a number of accolades for his skill:

Defeating Valis, Child of the Emperor:

Defeating Sith Lord Sadic, who is said to be the best of Angral's apprentices before gaining a heavy cybernetic augmentation:

Defeating Lord Nefraid in combat:

Defeating Darth Angral, a renowned Sith warrior and Lord who outfought the Hero's own master, Orgus Din. After that, the Hero defeats a Vitiate-possessed Kira Carsen:

Defeating Lord Scourge in single combat, with Scourge being the Emperor's Wrath and has centuries of experience and practice following his appearance in the Revan novel, by which time he was already skilful enough to beat a pair of Imperial Guards, match Meetra Surik in lightsaber combat, and whom as a student was already more than a match for his Sith instructors:

Wrecking a Sith combat droid:

Defeating Warren Sedoru, fallen Jedi master:

Defeating Leeha Narezz, fallen Jedi master:

Defeating Tol Braga, fallen Jedi Council member:

Defeating the Emperor Lord Vitiate himself, after fighting through numerous troops. The Emperor was severely weakened, but was also in the Dark Temple, a very powerful dark side nexus, as well as on Dromund Kaas, which itself is a dark side nexus:


My Response To Star Wars Threads

As a preface, I will say that this blog can appear to be somewhat offensive in its direct bluntness, but is directed at nobody in particular. This is simply my opinion of SW threads as of the moment, and there isn't a need for anybody in particular to be feeling ostracized or blackballed. I'm simply expressing my views, which, as one might guess, might not be too favorable of SW threads as of late. In any case, let's begin.

Anybody who has seen recent Star Wars threads and scrutinized them well enough might, or rather, should, be able to find certain trends which underline SW threads, users' responses to these threads, and the debates of varying quality and quantity which stem from these threads. These trends aren't inherently negative, but as one could imagine, they are subtly influenced such that they do become negative tendencies. I want to address these and how I will or want to respond to them.

The first issue I have with SW threads as of the moment is how a vast majority of them are unnaturally alike. They aren't absolute mirrors of each other, but if they were, one might question why they would attract any posters at all. Regardless, they come unnervingly close to that. At the top of my head, I can list a number of endlessly resurfacing elements which are the cause of this. Number one is simply the setting. A vast majority of SW threads at the moment are Clone Wars-related threads, or threads that use characters from that era. Intrinsically, there is nothing wrong with this at all. The CW era houses a gargantuan amount of EU material, more so than most other SW time frames. But the issue arises once you see just how often this era being used. In. Every. Single. Thread. The capacity to imagine a more creative fight with characters from a non-CW era is hardly out of anybody's reach - that is, anybody who has delved into the EU, even if only to a limited degree - and yet, so many threads are just CW-related threads. Darth Maul. Count Dooku. Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anakin Skywalker. Mace Windu. Yoda. General Grievous. Palpatine. And then some characters not from the films, but from CW and TCW. Asajj Ventress and Savage Opress, for instance. The fact is that these characters are ridiculously overused not just as characters pitted against each other in a fight, but to the extent that they have become the norm for comparison - with any SW character. The films and TCW are obviously the most accessible part of SW, which is understandable, but then, this is Comic Vine. Therefore, comics are equally as important, if not more so, and this simply leads out into the EU, which houses a vastly greater amount of storywriting potential, character potential, and even just creativity in general. There are so many different other characters from other eras, or from this era that are underused, and it's quite appalling to find that most people fail to recognize them, or, if they do, fail to make any threads with them. Of course, this is hardly the most irritating issue I have with SW threads as of late - these characters might be overused, but if they could generate good discussion, then maybe this would only be a minor complaint. If.

They mostly can't. This is another issue I have with SW threads, and a most prominent one indeed. It has less to do with the OP's settings, but with the content within a thread itself. The state of the board itself is simply abhorrent. By whose judgment is it necessary to utterly impart one's knowledge, one's opinion, to another as if it were law? Being somewhat harsh or overly critical to an extent is hardly unforgivable, and that is something anybody who has debated with me before has experienced. That's reasonable enough - there are people who are simply not so sympathetic and kind as others, or perhaps their rough words mask a greater kindness. Irrational charity is hardly any better, for those who whinge and whine about minutely stiff words. But that's talk for another day.

SW threads are almost bound to be filled with poor-quality content (unless the characters are so esoteric that the majority that few can post anything about them at all) in the form of one-word posts or rebuttals, and otherwise counterproductive material. But this is something done by everyone, on every thread, and circumstances such as one's mood may be the cause of this, perhaps. So it's acceptable... perhaps. But then one comes to things that are inexcusable. The incitation of flame wars and otherwise counterproductive debate is especially noticeable. A number of select users seem to feel as if they are infallible, as if their will, their mere subjective opinion, is law. Can't say it's a very good attitude to have in life, but how does this impact SW threads themselves? It should be obvious that any exaggeration of one's opinion should make that person invalid as a debater. Correcting somebody else or expressing how they are wrong, or elucidating on how you are right is the purpose of debating, essentially, but imposing yourself on others so as to start multi-page-long flame wars is inexcusable and needs no further elucidation as to how abhorrent it is.

The last thing I felt like I wanted to address is ignorance. It's not something that can be controlled in any way, though I doubt anything I said above could be either, but regardless, it is something that can be frustrating at times. While it's certainly understandable that the average Viner wouldn't be knowledgeable on the EU, there isn't a need to lowball characters because they haven't seen anything aside from the movies, for instance. There is also a set level of bias in everybody, but it particularly shows in several posters' histories. Regardless, a level of ignorance is also imbued within each and every single user on the Vine, and that by itself is hardly an issue. The issue is less with the fact that one is ignorant (they can just ask for information), but those who pretend they have vast reserves of knowledge when, in reality, they are speaking gibberish and all their knowledge is a false pretense. Even if one doesn't own SW material, one can obtain enough knowledge to debate simply by watching others debate and reading their posts to obtain information. Obviously, this is debating in the loosest sense and hardly the most productive way of learning about SW EU, but at the same time, it is vastly superior to those who pretend to be all-knowing or who insist on passing judgment when they obviously have no idea what they are talking about. There are far too many people who read no material on SW EU and yet insist on them losing in every possible encounter for no reason other than to satisfy their illogical conditions.

I've highlighted issues I've found to be irritants, but I'll also have to underline how I plan to respond to them, and how I'd recommend others do so. I'll comment on the former later, but for now, let's skip to the latter. Of course, this is advice only, not something I am forcing upon you. However, in respects to most threads, I'd suggest you ignore the bulk of the posts, which tend to be detrimental to the quality of the thread itself. Obviously, if you come across a user you find to be one who drags down the quality of SW threads on the boards, then I'd recommend avoiding debate with such a user, if only to prevent flame wars and other such injurious events. And since it is simple for anybody to create an SW thread, I would ask anybody who is reading this to make more varying threads to alleviate the boredom around the SW boards..... because quite frankly, I'm getting sleepy-eyed with all the Darth Maul and Darth Tyranus threads.

As for my personal response to this - I have been saying this for some time, but I do feel as if I wish to leave CW threads. It's too boring, and it always has too much disruption. The fact that it is so common makes it easy for one to memorize the feats of virtually all the famed characters of the era. It is much like a book that has been read over and over until every word has been memorized. What you should do is simply let go of the book and keep it closed - and so I will do exactly that. I may choose to respond to certain threads related to the Clone Wars era, if I deem them capable of generating good discussion, but in other cases, I will simply refuse to post on them, even if I am called to them. I doubt my deportation will last forever, but I expect it to last a substantial period. I'm not hiding for any other reason; I simply find most CW-related threads to be unproductive, if not counterproductive, and I can't really do much about it. But at the same time, I'm also basically getting bored. So I'm choosing the threads I'll enter and post on, which hopefully will be a sufficient explanation for anybody who likes to call me out on certain threads. Debates can go on without me. If CW threads improve drastically, I may renege and return, but unless this is the case, which, not to sound pessimistic, is rather unlikely, I'll be entering CW-hibernation. Now, I may answer your call-outs, or I may not. I'll be selective with the threads I choose to enter, and most of the time I will avoid debating with another user if I find that it would be unproductive.


Top 10 Sith Lords

This is a topic that has been circulating for quite some time, and I have had this question asked to me many times as well. I am tired of repeatedly answering this question, in part due to the fact that my opinion also rapidly shifts. In the future, when I am asked this question, I will link the inquirer to here, where I will also be updating this blog as my feelings on the characters change/material is changed. This is, of course, a Legends listing. I will create a Jedi list some time in the future.

It should be noted that the question of "Who are the top 10 Sith Lords" is ambiguous and comes in many forms, so I will address it in all these forms, and I will give an explanation for each choice.

Note: Obviously, this is just my opinion, and is not necessarily correct (although Palpatine remains canonically the most powerful Sith Lord by a variety of sources). Also, theoretically, the Banite Sith that we do not know of will also be in such a list, but I do not want a list filled with nameless and unknown characters, so I have included only characters with enough feats or accolades to actually warrant a position in the top ten.


This is a list referring to Force power only.

1. Darth Sidious - No explanation really required - sources have already identified him as the most powerful Sith in history and his feats reflect this. Nobody else is on his tier in this regard. Check his respect thread for his power feats and accolades if you are disbelieving of me.

2. Darth Plagueis - Listed as the most powerful Sith Lord up to and of his time by Darth Plagueis's back cover (not sure if it is canon, though), and this should be correct based on his showings which include atomizing others whilst he was heavily wounded and holding back.

3. Darth Caedus/Vitiate - Caedus is often thought of as a masterful duelist and fast combatant, of which he holds a record as two, but in terms of power, I would not place him that far up. Vitiate the most powerful Dark Sider up to and of his time (excluding the Ones and Abeloth, like all these lists are) by canonical sources, and is exceptionally powerful by virtue of his myriad of feats, notwithstanding his vast overrating which can be found almost universally.

4. Darth Nihilus - Nihilus is exceptionally powerful by virtue of his feats, such as casually stunning Visas Marr, Canderous and the Exile, given how the Exile was likely of considerable power by this time. His Drain feats are his most notable ones, but he also has good Concealment and Sense feats. There are two respect threads for him.

5. Darth Traya/Darth Nox - Traya is a very powerful yet underrated Sith Lords whose power feats should naturally carry the connotation of being one of the most powerful Sith Lords and Force users in general. Her TK feats are incredibly impressive, her Heal, TP, Cloak and similarly-related feats even more so, in addition to her extensive knowledge and versatility in the Force. Nox is another overwhelmingly powerful Sith Lord, whose feats include utterly stomping one of the single most powerful Sith Lords in the entire Sith Empire with telekinesis (comparable to the likes of Count Dooku as well), and effortlessly deflecting Lightning from said Sith Lord (Darth Thanaton, who has killed beings with his Lightning before), in addition to his myriad of other showings and accolades.

6. Darth Tenebrous - Very few showings, but what few showings he has demonstrated place him somewhat above Vader, though not by much. That said, he possesses a strong level of telekinesis and Lightning, immense levels of Barrier and Speed, as well as a powerful degree of Force Sense and overall knowledge and mastery in the Force. There is a respect thread for him I have created if you wish to seek out his feats.

7. Darth Vader/Darth Bane - Vader should come as no surprise, given the enormity of the scale of his telekinetic feats, which he is well known for within the EU community, and he possesses a number of showings in other power-related areas to afford him this ranking. Bane is extremely powerful in many Force-based depictions, which should elevate him above the likes of Tyranus, even though his telekinetic feats have some edges of doubt about them.

8. Darth Tyranus/Darth Krayt - Probably a tier behind Vader, if not on Vader's tier, but not quite his equal. Tyranus is exceptionally powerful in a number of regards and canon sources has identified him as one of the most powerful Force users in history. A respect thread has been made for him if you wish to see his feats. Krayt is also relatively knowledgeable and powerful. His telekinetic capabilities allow him to shatter pillars, he knows Dark Transfer and Drain, he has withstood Darth Wyyrlok's Memory Walk, deflected Wyyrlok's Lightning (utilizing Deflection against Lightning being a near-impossible feat) and so on, which should merit his ranking within the top ten.

9. TCW Darth Maul/Darth Malgus/Darth Zannah - Maul should only be a tier behind Dooku. His telekinetic feats significantly transcend that of his TPM incarnation, allowing him to utterly dominate Jedi on the caliber of Obi-Wan Kenobi. A respect thread has been made for him if you wish to see his feats. Malgus is a sheer brute powerhouse whose raw power is outstanding and has enough merit to be on the list. Additionally, Sidious has claimed that Malgus's battlefield feats, accomplished by virtue of power, have never been duplicated up to and of Palpatine's time. I have created a respect thread for him if you wish to see his feats. Although Zannah's prime has never been shown, her displayed feats up to DoE (including those of Sorcery, and her childhood showings) do reflect incredible power, which should merit her ranking at roughly this level.

10. Darth Malak/Darth Revan/Lumiya - Malak is a very underrated character whose power feats merit a level which significantly transcends that of beings of Obi-Wan's class, so he should be comparable to Maul and Tyranus. There is a respect thread for him on this site. For Darth Revan, prior to being redeemed, it's hard to identify exactly where he fits since he has very few feats at this time, and all we know is that he possesses extensive knowledge and is one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, but I recall a source which elevates him beyond Malak, but of course, that iteration of Malak was very unlikely to be as powerful as he was by the time of KotOR, so he should be placed here, especially in part due to a lack of feats. In the case of Lumiya, she is fairly powerful across all areas, but more notably, is powerful in Illusion-based powers. Her mastery of the Force Phantom technique was such that she could create and sustain hundreds of them across the galaxy at once, whilst empowered by the Dark Side nexus of the Home.

There are many characters like Chratis, the Emperor's Wrath, Wyyrlok and so on who are close but not quite able to make it to the top ten. Characters like Marka Ragnos and Tulak Hord are mostly lip-service and a lack of living appearances makes it difficult to judge whether they live up to their hype or not. I am not including amped characters like Orbalisk Bane, but for the record, Orbalisk Bane would be on par with Plagueis or Vitiate. Likewise, Star Forge Malak is not included, but for note, he should be around Malgus's level.


This is a list regarding skill only.

1. Darth Sidious - Again, little need for explanation. His feats are simply better than the others'.

2. Darth Caedus - Contending with Luke in a realistic combat situation is a very good showing for Caedus. Barring some senseless inconsistencies, Caedus is certainly one of the most skilful combatants in being comparable to Luke, which renders him comparable to Palpatine as well.

3. Darth Tyranus - I was actually surprised myself when I couldn't bring myself to find another duelist more skilful than Tyranus, and I did not expect him to be here. Nonetheless, this is not a baseless assumption. Tyranus's dueling feats and accolades (which can be viewed in his respect thread) are just as astonishingly impressive and he should be ahead of others that I list here.

4. Darth Vader - One of the single most skilful swordsmen in the history of the galaxy itself, and having beaten a myriad of Jedi to support his placement here.

5. TPM Darth Maul/TCW Darth Maul - Just as skilful as each other, these incarnations of Maul are one of the single most skilled of Sith in the entirety of the Sith Order's history, and their feats include fighting competitively with some of the best duelists in the history of the Order.

6. Darth Plagueis/Darth Tenebrous - It is difficult to judge where Plagueis is due to a lack of feats on his part, but from what we have seen and what can be implied, he is still a very skilful combatant. I would not place him on par with Maul just because of his lack of likeness of lightsaber combat as a whole and a level of ambiguity, although he could be of roughly tantamount ranking in that regard - it is simply too hard to quantify his dueling skill. For Tenebrous - essentially the same reasons for Plagueis.

7. Exar Kun - Kun has beaten a number of Jedi such as Craydo, Sylvar, and Vodo-Siosk Baas, all of whom are featless, but the latter of which has been listed as one of the most formidable Jedi swordsmen in all of history. He has also stalemated Ulic Qel-Droma (and this was before Kun brandished his dual blades), a character whom could stalemate Sylvar even after the former was cut off from the Force.

8. Darth Malgus/Emperor's Wrath/Lumiya - Malgus has beaten a number of skilful Jedi opponents, such as Ven Zallow and Kao Cen Darach. The Wrath has beaten a vast range of characters, a number of which were beaten under circumstances which would make the feat more impressive, since most of the characters he or she has beaten are featless. Nonetheless, the showings should have merit, given how a number of them were accomplished whilst he was relatively inexperienced. Lumiya has mastered the lightwhip, a much more difficult to master but also more esoteric counterpart to the lightsaber. She was able to defeat RotJ Luke (an equal for Darth Vader) with the advantage of Luke having never faced a lightwhip before. After Luke became more experienced against such weapons and dual-wielded against them, Lumiya was defeated, but she was able to contend with Luke on other occasions, including as a Grand Master (although this is an inconsistent showing, but it is a decent one nonetheless).

10. Darth Venamis/Darth Revan - Venamis's capacity to contend with Plagueis should elevate him to a top ten standing, but he has no other appearances or showings so it would be extremely difficult to otherwise quantify his combat skill. Is he very skilled? Yes, but exactly where he stands I cannot say. I'll just place him here for now. For Darth Revan, he has beaten Darth Malak in a realistic lightsaber duel at some point, hence Malak's loss of his jaw, as well as having beaten Mandalore the Ultimate, whom, whilst a non-Force sensitive, has one-shotted Alek (Malak as a Jedi).

Tulak Hord is likely somewhere amongst the characters, but a lack of appearances is painful. The characters who spoke highly of him have a hyperbole record so whether he was actually as skilful as he was claimed to be is up to one's determination. Nox also has some decent skill feats, but I wouldn't put him or her as a top ten charcter just yet. Kas'im is fairly skilful, but probably lacks the feats to be top ten.


A reference to Dark Side knowledge and Force knowledge in general.

1. Darth Sidious - Again, no explanation really required. He has all the knowledge of the Banite Sith, plus a vast range of other sources. He is believed to know every single application of the Force, as per the DE sourcebook.

2. Vitiate/Darth Traya/Darth Plagueis - All wield tremendous reserves of knowledge, and Kreia has the edge of light-sided knowledge from her former Jedi heritage, during which she served as a historian who gathered and studied relics. Vitiate has an incredibly extensive life span, which affords him the capacity to delve into the deeper secrets of the dark side, and Plagueis has the benefit of all the accumulated knowledge of the Banite Sith.

3. Darth Revan - Revan has access vast range of lore such that his holocron appeared to possess much more knowledge than the entirety of the Sith Academy Library on Korriban, and his information sources stretch from the Trayus Academy to varying Sith manuscripts, holocrons, and other sources.

4. Darth Tenebrous/Darth Caedus - Tenebrous's status as among the last of the Order of the Sith Lords presents him with the opportunity of an amassed wealth of accumulated dark side knowledge. Caedus is knowledgeable as a whole given the diversity of his Force powers.

5. Darth Tyranus/Darth Zannah - Tyranus has studied many artifacts and has displayed a wide range of powers. Zannah has similar knowledge to Bane, but would have only gained more during her tenure as a Sith master, not to mention that her Sorceress capacities allowed him to uncover more information from holocrons than Bane did.

6. Darth Krayt/Darth Bane - Krayt and Bane both wield vast reserves of knowledge based off their large libraries of collected dark side knowledge and displayed powers.

7. Darth Vader/Darth Malak/Darth Nox - Vader possesses a wealth of Force knowledge and versatility. Malak knows a wide range of powers and has dabbled in arts such as Sith Sorcery, whilst Nox is simply very versatile and knowledgeable from what we have seen.

8. Darth Wyyrlok/Atris/Sorzus Syn /Lumiya- Likely not as knowledgeable as the above, but Wyyrlok is still knowledgeable in his applications of dark side knowledge. Likewise, Atris was once a Jedi librarian, and has studied from a wealth of dark side holocrons. We also know from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide that Atris wields many powers. As detailed in Book of Sith: Secrets of the Dark Side, Sorzus Syn is simply a very well-learned character in Sith sorcery, alchemy, and other dark side-related phenomena. Lumiya also had access to a large force of holocrons.

9. Exar Kun/Freedon Nadd/Darth Thanaton - Exar Kun wields a wide range of powers from holocrons he has studied, including Sith Sorcery, whilst Nadd has learned everything Sadow knew, as well as gaining knowledge from varying other Sith such as Adas. Thanaton has access to an entire library of dark side knowledge and lore, and is very knowledgeable in varying Sith/Dark Side powers and traditions such as rituals.

10. Naga Sadow - Sadow is considerably knowledgeable in the arts of Sith Sorcery and Alchemy.


This is a list which is not necessarily a realistic fighting scenario, just an amalgamation of all characters' full power sets and abilities. Therefore, a lack of skill or a lack of power can be harmful:

1. Darth Sidious - No real explanation needed.

2. Darth Caedus - His mix of power, knowledge, endurance, speed and skill makes him an extremely skilled, powerful and versatile fighter.

3. Darth Plagueis - A very powerful/knowledgeable Force user with incredible levels of speed and agility as well as strength to supplement his power, also being very skilled.

4. Darth Tenebrous - Skilled, but also extremely fast, agile, knowledgeable and powerful. Additionally, he is tremendously intelligent and is capable of calculating the future via mathematics.

5. Darth Vader - An incredibly durable, powerful and skilful combatant with a healthy mix of knowledge and speed added to complement his greatest aspects.

6. Darth Tyranus/Darth Nox - The Count is portrayed as a consummate duelist, is very fast, and is very powerful/knowledgeable. Nox also wields vast reserves of power and knowledge, and is a capable combatant himself.

7. TCW Darth Maul - A masterful lightsaber combatant and martial artist with high levels of all physical attributes as well as power.

8. Darth Traya/Darth Nihilus - Extremely powerful, but lack combative and other physical showings.

9. Vitiate/Darth Bane - The Emperor is incredibly powerful, but is not a physical combatant and lacks any lightsaber or physical capacity at all. Bane is not quite as powerful, but is still skilful and possesses many physical feats.

10. Darth Malgus/TPM Maul/Darth Krayt/Lumiya - A strong blend of power, endurance/pain tolerance and strength with reasonably decent skill makes Malgus a juggernaut who is not to be trifled with. TPM Maul isn't very high with respects to power, but is very formidable in terms of martial and dueling skill, and in all physical areas. Krayt lacks physical strength feats, but has fairly decent speed and durability showings, half-decent skill showings, and impressive levels of Force power, mastery and knowledge. Lumiya possesses a strong level of skill and speed at least approachable, if not equal, to the late Rebellion era-early NR era Luke. She also has a strong level of power and knowledge, especially in respects to Illusions such as her Force Phantoms.

Honorable mentions to the Emperor's Wrath, Malak and Zannah, who aren't too far behind the list.


1. Darth Traya - She is so interesting because of the way she challenges SW morality and philosophy, which makes her a very unique character. Her wisdom and knowledge is also particularly striking, although most probably don't like her due to the interminably long monologues she launches into.

2. Darth Sidious - Essentially the main villain in SW history itself, and the story of his manipulations and rise to power makes him perhaps the most epic of all Sith in that way.

3. Darth Tenebrous - Very, very underrated as a character. I find Tenebrous interesting because of his different capabilities and goals unlike many other Sith.

4. Darth Vader - You'd probably have to have him somewhere in your top 5 Sith list if you are an SW fan - no real explanation. The first SW character to radiate epicness.

5. Darth Plagueis/Darth Tyranus - Plagueis is just intriguing due to his character and the way it was explored by Luceno - to reveal his character and make a good story out of it, but maintain a shroud of mysteriousness. Tyranus is up here because Christopher Lee is underrated and an excellent actor.... and he has a good backstory, good characterization in sources such as the RotS novel, etc.

6. Darth Caedus - I always liked Jacen Solo, and the same applies for Caedus. It's hard to actually explain why, though.

7. Darth Revan - I'd think that anybody who played KotOR would understand why he is here. In short: he comes from one of the best SW video games. You can play the game to find out for yourself.

8. Darth Zannah - She unfortunately doesn't have the characterization she could have had, thanks to Karpyshyn, but she has much promise and potential as a character.

9. Darth Bane - He had good characterization in the first novel of his namesake trilogy, and it developed him into a strong character. Unfortunately, that couldn't be sustained in the next two novels due to Karpyshyn's preference of fanwanking over characterization.

10. Darth Malgus - Was developed very well as a character in Deceived, and his appearances the trailers alone personify his epicness.

Least Favorite

My most hated/least favorite, number 1 is most hated, and gradually dwindling away.

1. Vitiate - An utter ripoff of Palpatine, and the development of him as a character is essentially reliant on his absence of character. Just.... no.

2. Savage Opress - He sucks. Too much of a brute, too poor a character. He's essentially "I'm going to punch you in the -" *gets his leg tripped on cloth*

3. Marka Ragnos - I literally dislike him because of the fanwank he receives. Just... uggh....

4. All Lost Tribe of the Sith - I just never got myself to like any of them. Vestara is probably the only one I don't dislike.

5. Atris (as Darth Traya) - The entire premise of her character in the game was to be a nuisance, really. Her stuck-up arrogance and hatred for the protagonist really made her the unlikeable character she deserved to be.

6. Darth Thanaton - He had somewhat better character than Atris, and more exposure to the audience through comics, but he was still essentially an Atris in the game.

7. Darth Bandon - Just wasn't developed enough as a character, and he felt somewhat unnecessary as a character.

8. Ludo Kressh - I liked Naga Sadow, so it would only be natural that in his rivalry against Kressh, that I would support Sadow against Kressh.

9. Darth Sion - He was a decent character in the way he was developed, but I just dislike his premise of being a complete and utter Force zombie. That, and he looks like he sleeps with vibroblades at night.

10. Qordis - Not necessarily a bad character, I just never liked him. To be fair, he was something of an a$$hole in the novel anyways.


Kreia and Arren Kae

This is a respite from the respect threads I have been piling up recently. This is a miscellaneous style of blog which underlines a number of similarities between two characters from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords. The two characters are Kreia, a character who serves as one of the main characters in The Sith Lords, but has a prominent element of mystery shrouding her, and Arren Kae, a Jedi who receives continuous mention but is apparently deceased and makes no appearance in the game. The similarities I am trying to address appear to be plainly "too convenient", which leads me to believe that these characters are in fact one and the same.

As a preface, I am following and elucidating on this video, as well as adding my own knowledge, but much, if not virtually all, of what I say is from the video, but may not be overwhelmingly clear. I will attempt to make it clear. Whenever I reference something from the video, I will hyperlink it to the exact current time the character said what he or she said.

Obviously, Kreia is also Darth Traya (which is recognizable from anybody who played KotOR II: TSL), so the fact that she could have many aliases is clearly not beyond plausibility. Furthermore, in the aforementioned video, Atris clearly says:

"Kreia? Oh, that is not her name."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Now, this may be a reference to Darth Traya, the Sith alias of Kreia, but this is unlikely because the previous conversation between Atris and Kreia seemed to indicate that Kreia was passing the title of Darth Traya to Atris. In the Dark Side version of the game (which is not canon but does contain a number of hints that one would be remiss to ignore), she clearly states that Atris assumed that title for however long - a few hours, or perhaps only a few minutes, but once Atris is killed, Kreia reveals that if Atris is not to be Darth Traya, then Kreia must assume that role. As a result, it can be surmised that Kreia did convey the title of Darth Traya to Atris (which is befitting because Atris was betrayed by Brianna, and she betrays herself and her former identity to learn about the dark side), and so it is equally plausible to suggest that Atris saying "Kreia" not being a real name in fact refers to the woman known as "Kreia" in fact having a different name, which, to my belief, is Arren Kae.

Next, everything in the timeline suggests Kreia and Arren Kae are one and the same. First and foremost, they are revealed to have fought in the Mandalorian Wars. Brianna the Handmaiden, daughter of Arren Kae, states that Kae had left for the Mandalorian Wars, after which she never returned and was declare dead:

"I never saw her face, and she did not return from the final battle of the war. She died in the battle that shadowed Malachor V, and her body was never recovered."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

The fact that Kae "died" and was never seen again can be interpreted as Kreia entering the Sith academy of Malachor V to become a Sith Lord, which is revealed in the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide. To further reinforce Brianna's statement, Master Kavar clearly expresses that he thought Kreia had died in the Mandalorian Wars. He says this just as he sees Kreia before him, so we know for certain that he was speaking of Kreia. The fact that both Kreia and Kae fought in the Mandalorian Wars and were thought to have died is just another "coincidence". Obviously, by itself, it means little, but once supplemented with all the other evidence to indicate they are one and the same, it is in fact another piece of evidence to indicate the two characters in question are simply different aliases of one being.

Mical also reveals that Revan was trained by Arren Kae before Kae was exiled (and throughout parts of KotOR II, Kreia occasionally discusses that she was indeed exiled from the Order), whilst Kreia reveals that she did train Revan at some point, something you can get out of her with sufficient influence:

"As a padawan, Revan was trained by Master Kae before she was exiled."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

"At one time, Revan was my padawan, in times past, long ago."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Again, this, like the fact that both Kae and Kreia were presumed dead following the Mandalorian Wars, may seem to be a mere coinciding fact, but it is part of the puzzle to solve the identity of who Kreia was.

Reinforcing this is what Mical says following this. He says that Revan returned to Kae to learn how to leave the Order entirely:

"And it is said that he went to his first and final master to learn how to leave the Order entirely as she had."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Similarly, Kreia insists that Revan returned to her in the end, to learn how to leave the Order forever:

"In the end, he turned back to me, when he realized that there was nothing more to be learned from the Jedi except how one could leave them forever."

Source: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

The pieces should begin to fall into place now. Kreia and Kae both being Revan's first and final master to teach him how to leave the Order entirely/forever is more than a coincidence - this time, this is evidence that the two are one and the same. And Revan going to Kreia/Kae to learn how to leave the Order "as she had" is an interesting topic for discussion, as we know Kae/Kreia was exiled (the video does reference this as well), so she certainly did leave the Order, and she discusses the faults of the Jedi Order often during the events of The Sith Lords.

Something else to note is the game developer Chris Avellone's response when this theory was brought up:

"Can’t comment, but good catch. Sorry."

As it is said, Avellone uses the phrase "good catch" to reference implications which he enjoys, but at the same time, this somewhat ambiguous wording can be used to withhold revealing the truth. It is likely that the truth will never come out, so this is simply a theory - there is no source which explicitly states that Arren Kae and Kreia are the same person, but it is implicitly suggested throughout the game, and the purpose of this blog is solely to underline these implicit suggestions and bring them to light. The blog is not particularly long, and I have plans for a much longer Kreia blog which will be up in several days once I have time to put it together. This blog is relatively short, but I wish to underline the glaring and more subtle "coincidences" which lead me to believe that Arren Kae was the birth name and Jedi name of the character, before she fell to the Dark Side and became Darth Traya. Upon her exile from the Sith Triumvirate, she used the alias of Kreia to get influence with the Exile along the journey, before adopting the title of Darth Traya once more as the Exile's final test, as well as for the purpose of "there must always be a Darth Traya", and "the galaxy needs its betrayers, especially in the times to come".

This does not address everything, but at the same time, the video includes portions of Kreia and Brianna speaking about Brianna's mother, and Brianna's betrayal, which was essentially the rest of the video. Most of that elucidated on who Arren Kae was, rather than the similarities between Kreia and Arren Kae.

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Ben Kenobi Respect Thread

I made a respect thread for Obi-Wan in his prime, so now, months later, I am making the thread for the old man that we all knew and loved in the OT - the man that Obi-Wan became. Material from the A New Hope novel is credited to Intrepid37.

Respect Ben Kenobi:

"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."

Combat Skill

Despite being out of practice against another Force user for seventeen years, Obi-Wan Kenobi contends with Darth Vader. Vader assumes the edge not by virtue of being more skilled with the blade, an area the two combatants are equal in, but because Obi-Wan's strength and stamina is inferior, causing him to weaken and tire prematurely:

"I have been waiting a long time, Obi-Wan Kenobi," Darth Vader intoned solemnly. "We meet again at last. The circle has been completed." Kenobi sensed satisfaction beneath the hideous mask. "The presence I sensed earlier could only have been you."

Kenobi regarded the great form blocking his retreat and nodded slowly. He gave the impression of being more curious than impressed. "You still have much to learn."

"You were once my teacher," Vader admitted, "and I learned much from you. But the time of learning has long passed, and I am the master now."

The logic that had constituted the missing link in his brilliant pupil remained as absent as before.

There would be no reasoning here, Kenobi knew. Igniting his saber, he assumed the pose of warrior-ready, a movement accomplished with the ease and elegance of a dancer.

Rather roughly, Vader imitated the movement. Several minutes followed without motion as the two men remained staring at each other, as if waiting for some proper, as yet unspoken signal.

Kenobi blinked once, shook his head, and tried to clear his eyes, which had begun to water slightly. Sweat beaded up on his forehead, and his eyelids fluttered again.

"Your powers are weak," Vader noted emotionlessly. "Old man, you should never have come back. It will make your end less peaceful than you might have wished."

"You sense only a part of the Force, Darth," Kenobi murmured with the assurance of one to whom death is merely another sensation, like sleeping or making love or touching a candle. "As always, you perceive its reality as little as a utensil perceives the taste of food."

Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape. Vader blocked the stab with equal speed, riposting with a counterslash that Kenobi barely parried. Another parry and Kenobi countered again, using this opportunity to move around the towering Dark Lord.

They continued to trade blows, with the old man now backing toward the hangar. Once, his saber and Vader's locked, the interaction of the two energy fields producing a violent sparking and flashing. A low buzzing sound rose from the straining power units as each saber sought to override the other.


Illuminated by the flare from contacting energy fields, Ben Kenobi and Darth Vader were backing toward the bay. The fight attracted the attention of others beside the Senator. Every one of the guards moved in for a better view of the Olympian conflict.

Kenobi heard the approaching commotion and spared a glance back into the hangar. The squad of troopers bearing down on him was enough to show that he was trapped.

Vader took immediate advantage of the momentary distraction to bring his saber over and down. Kenobi somehow managed to deflect the sweeping blow, at once parrying and turning a complete circle.

"You still have your skill, but your power fades. Prepare to meet the Force, Obi-Wan."

Kenobi gauged the shrinking distance between the oncoming troops and himself, then turned a pitying gaze on Vader. "This is a fight you cannot win, Darth. Your power has matured since I taught you, but I too have grown much since our parting. If my blade finds its mark, you will cease to exist. But if you cut me down, I will only become more powerful. Heed my words."

"Your philosophies no longer confuse me, old man," Vader growled contemptuously. "I am the master now."

Once again he lunged forward, feinting, and then slashing in a deadly downward arc with the saber.

It struck home, cutting the old man cleanly in half. There was a brief flash as Kenobi's cloak fluttered to the deck in two neat sections.

But Ben Kenobi was not in it. Wary of some trick, Vader poked at the empty cloak sections with the saber. There was no sign of the old man. He had vanished as though he had never existed.

The guards slowed their approach and joined Vader in examining the place where Kenobi had stood seconds before. Several of them muttered, and even the awesome presence of the Sith Lord couldn't keep a few of them from feeling a little afraid.

Source: A New Hope

"I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan," Vader said as he moved closer to the elderly Jedi Knight. "We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete."

Obi-Wan assumed an offensive position.

Vader continued, "When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the master."

"Only a master of evil, Darth," Obi-Wan said. He made a sudden lunge at Vader but the dark lord blocked the attack. There was a loud electric crackle as their lightsabers made contact. Obi-Wan swung again and again, but each time Vader parried.

Vader said, "Your powers are weak, old man."

"You can't win, Darth," Obi-Wan said. "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

"You should not have come back," Vader said.

Their lightsaber clashed again, And again, and again. And as their battle continued, they moved closer to the main doorway that led directly to the hangar that contained the Millennium Falcon.


It was a lightsaber duel. Luke could only imagine the identity of the tall, black-clad humanoid who wielded a red lightsaber. The other duelist wore a brown cloak, and Luke thought he recognized him immediately.

"Ben?" Luke said, and came to a stop. Who's he fighting?

Ben looked to Luke and smiled, then raised his lightsaber before him and closed his eyes. He looked almost serene.

Darth Vader thought Obi-Wan was surrendering, but the dark lord was without mercy. Vader's lightsaber swept through the air and sliced through Ben's form. Ben's cloak and lightsaber fell to the floor. His body was gone.

"No!" Luke shouted.

Hearing Luke's cry, the stormtroopers turned and shot at him. Luke raised his blast rifle and returned their fire, hitting one trooper, who tumbled forward into the elevator well.

Han immediately joined the fight, firing at the troopers while the droids and Chewbacca hurried into the Falcon. "Come on!" Han shouted to Luke.

Darth Vader ignored the blasterfight and looked down at the old brown cloak and lightsaber that lay on the floor. Incredibly, Obi-Wan had completely disappeared.

Where is he? How could he vanish? What sort of trickery is this? He had assumed Obi-Wan's study of the Force had ended long ago, and that his powers had diminished over time. But Vader was wrong.
Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization

There he was. After so much time and across so much space, the hooded figure of Obi-Wan Kenobi, his former Master and friend, stood right in front of him. He had aged; his face was lined, his beard white. It was impossible to not remember vividly the last time they had seen each other, when his Master had crippled him and left him to die on the fiery banks of a river of molten rock, light-years from here.

Now his anger smoldered in him like the banks of that coursing stream of lava. You should have killed me then, Obi-Wan.

Vader lit his lightsaber. The red beam crackled with power. Obi-Wan had already known Vader was there, of course. The Force swirled about the two of them, forging a link impossible to miss.

Vader stroke toward the old man. As he drew nearer, Obi-Wan ignited his own lightsaber. The blue gleam of the blade flashed brightly.

"I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete."

Vader raised his weapon to attack, and Obi-Wan matched his pose.

"When I left you, I was but the learner; now I am the Master."

"Only a master of evil, Darth." With that, Obi-Wan stepped in and cut.

Vader blocked the attack easily. Obi-Wan attacked again, and again, Vader blocked each strike.

If the old man thought he could rattle him by attacking instead of defending, he was mistaken. Vader riposted, sped up his timing, and took the initiative, forcing the erstwhile Jedi to defend.

He still had some skill, his old Master did, but he was out of practice. Vader could feel it through the Force.

Obi-Wan twirled and blocked a slash, then wove a defensive pattern with his blade. The Force was still with the old Jedi; he was able to anticipate Vader's strikes and block or parry them. But after a quick exchange, Vader felt the energy shift in his favor. "Your powers are weak, old man."

There had always been in Vader a small bit of worry about this day. Not much; just a trace. He had been sure, in his useful arrogance, that he had been stronger, had been better than the Jedi Knight who had been his teacher, and the memory of what Obi-Wan had done to him would never be erased. He had been a superior fighter even when he had been Anakin Skywalker, and yet Obi-Wan had defeated him.

Could he win now?

It was as if the old man could read his thoughts:

"You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Vader knew that Obi-Wan was taunting him by using the Sith honorific, but he would not allow himself to be baited. Obi-Wan lunged again, attacking, but Vader was ready. Their sabers clashed, sparks spewed, the stink of ozone wafted over them, but Vader stood his ground. The blades slid along each other's length, then stopped, bound together in the magnetic handle guards, the men face-to-face.

Vader shoved, hard, and they broke the clash. Obi-Wan retreated a step.

Vader felt the fierce anticipation of victory pound in his heart. "You should not have come back," he told the old Jedi.

Another exchange - four, five, six attacks and blocks - and Vader knew the old man was weakening. The Force might be strong in Obi-Wan, but the dark side was stronger in Vader. It let him anticipate his adversary's strikes and counter them almost before they began.

Obi-Wan knew it, too. He began a retreat, backing away, his lightsaber itself seeming weaker as he moved.

Vader backed Obi-Wan past an open blast door leading to the forward dock where the Rebel freighter was being held under guard. The old man was obviously tiring.

You're mine, old man, Vader thought.

But just as he was ready to deliver the final strike, Obi-Wan managed a fast series of attacks, and Vader had to move quickly to avoid the strikes. Even as old and weak as Obi-Wan was, his technique was accomplished enough that a foolish move on Vader's part could still be fatal.

A group of stormtroopers standing in the dock became aware of them. Vader felt rather than saw them notice the strange duel, and sensed the troopers heading toward them.

He did not wish them to interfere, but to even warn them of would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.

Vader heard someone call from the dock: "Ben?" It was a young man's voice. Still he could not risk a look in that direction. But Obi-Wan glanced away, quickly, then looked back at Vader. Then he did the last thing Vader could have possibly imagined -

He smiled.

It was an expression not the least worried; almost beatific, in fact. Then, still smiling, Obi-Wan lifted his lightsaber so that the tip pointed straight up at the ceiling.

The action was so totally unexpected that Vader paused for an instant in shock. Not even the Force had lent him prescience concerning this. His former Master had left himself wide open. Was it a trap?

It didn't matter. If it was, Obi-Wan wasn't fast enough, or strong enough, to spring it in time. Vader shifted his lightsaber and cut from the right, hard, aiming for the neck -

His lightsaber sheared through the old man as if the latter were no denser than the air itself, and Obi-Wan collapsed.

Yes! Fierce, exultant joy coursed through the man who had been Anakin Skywalker. He had done it! He had slain Obi-Wan Kenobi! His revenge was complete!

From a distance he heard someone scream "Nooo!" - a cry of utter despair. But Vader paid it no heed. The dark side surged within him as powerfully as he had ever felt it - for an instant. But then it stopped.

What had just happened?

Vader looked down at the body. But there was no body. Only Obi-Wan's robes and cloak.

This was impossible! It could not be!

The squad of stormtroopers began firing at somebody in the docking bay, but Vader could not be bothered to look. He stepped forward, staring down in disbelief. An illusion of some kind? Some Jedi mind trick that the old man had never imparted to him?

Impossible! Obi-Wan had taught him everything Vader knew...

But, whispered a voice from within, maybe not everything that Obi-Wan knew.

Vader reached out with his boot to touch the corpse, but he only stirred the empty vestments, charred by the lightsaber's heat, with his questing foot.

Obi-Wan Kenobi was gone.

How could this be?

For the first time he could remember, the dark side had no answer. And a great surge of unfamiliar emotion suddenly washed over him.

Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith's apprentice, one of the two most powerful beings in the galaxy, was afraid.

Source: Death Star

Tarkin watched the recording of Vader fighting the old man in a lightsaber duel, fascinated. Obi-Wan Kenobi had survived all these years. Who would have believed it?

That he was still able to make a fight of it against Darth Vader was even more impressive. The man looked old enough to be Vader's father, and them some. Amazing.

Source: Death Star

When Obi-Wan Kenobi duels his former apprentice Darth Vader aboard the Death Star, both combatants know they are but shadows of their former selves. Neither has fought another lightsaber-wielder for many years. Kenobi is an older man, and Vader is a cyborg crippled by the lingering pain of the injuries that make his life-support suit necessary. Nonetheless, it is a life-and-death battle pitting Kenobi's defensive Form III mastery against Vader's angry Form V power. Classically, Form III allows Kenobi to hold off the Dark Lord, but cannot bring him victory against the more powerful Form V. Kenobi instead chooses to surrender his body and become one with the Force. Kenobi's successful effort baffles Vader as his old Master's body disappears at the moment of death.

Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

Force Speed

Obi-Wan moves at a speed deemed incredible for a being of his age:

Executing a move of incredible swiftness for one so old, Kenobi lunged at the massive shape.

Source: A New Hope

Vader knows Obi-Wan can kill him in the blink of an eye, if his attention falters:

He did not wish them to interfere, but to even warn them of would take concentration that he could not afford at the moment. Should his attention falter, Obi-Wan could kill him in the blink of an eye.

Source: Death Star


Telepathy enables one to influence or outright manipulate another's thoughts.

Obi-Wan utilizes Mind Tricks on a group of Stormtroopers on Tatooine:

The squad leader said, "Let me see your identification."

"You don't need to see his identification," Ben said in a calm, controlled tone.

Looking to his fellow stormtroopers, the squad leader said, "We don't need to see his identification."

Ben said, "These aren't the droids you're looking for."

"These aren't the droids we're looking for," the squad leader repeated.

Luke gave another quick glance at Ben. He's hypnotizing the stormtroopers. But how?

Ben said to the squad leader, "He can go about his business."

Looking at Luke, the squad leader said, "You can go about your business."

"Move along," Ben said.

"Move along," echoed the squad leader, gesturing with his hand for Luke to proceed. "Move along."

Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization

Obi-Wan influences a pair of Stormtroopers to make them think they hear a noise behind them, distracting them enough for him to slip past them:

Using the Force, Ben flexed his fingers and gestured at the two troopers. Both troopers suddenly heard - or thought they heard - a muffled explosion from the doorway behind them, and turned away from the power terminal.

"What was that?" asked the second trooper.

"That's nothing," said the first trooper. "Top gassing. Don't worry about it."

Neither noticed Ben step onto the bridge and exit the generator trench.

Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization

Force Sense

Force Sense is a passive Force power which enables a Force user to feel physical, emotional and mental traits as well as events.

Obi-Wan senses the destruction of Alderaan, light-years away:

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force," Ben said. "As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization

Obi-Wan senses Vader aboard the Death Star, knowing of his presence before seeing him:

Obi-Wan had already known Vader was there, of course. The Force swirled about the two of them, forging a link impossible to miss.

Source: Death Star

Obi-Wan feels the need to use his lightsaber prematurely, a foreshadowing of his fight with Darth Vader:

Ben stood in the shadows of a narrow passageway that adjoined the hallway. When he was sure the troopers had passed, he drew his lightsaber from his belt. He did not activate the blade but held it ready. He had a feeling he would be using his weapon sooner than later. Much sooner.

Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization

Sound Mimicry

Sound Mimicry is a power enabling a Force user to mimic the sounds of others.

Obi-Wan mimics the sound of a Krayt Dragon to scare away Tusken Raiders: (Theatrical and Blu-Ray) (2004)

A great howling moan echoed through the canyon. Hearing the sound, the three Tusken Raiders fled from the landspeeder.

Source: A New Hope Junior Novelization


Jolee Bindo and Bastila Shan Respect Thread

Respect Jolee Bindo:

"I wasn't always the wrinkled coot I am now, you know. I can still fight, too, so wipe off that smirk I see there."

Combat Skill

Jolee defeats four katarns by himself:

Jolee fought and defeated Nayama, somebody who would later go on to kill many Jedi:


Force Slow is a power that slows down the movements and perceptions of an enemy.

Jolee knows Force Slow:


Force wound is a telekinetic application which allows a Force user to directly wound another, often internally.

Jolee knows Force Wound:


Telepathy is the ability to communicate thoughts or affect the mind of another.

Jolee knows Mind Trick:

Jolee uses a series of Mind Tricks to escape a Leviathan cell and coax the Sith guard to lock himself in the cell instead:


Ionize is a Force power that enables a Force user to overload and/or damage electronic systems, allowing a Force user to affect machines such as droids.

Jolee knows Ionize:

Beast Control

Beast Control, also known as Beast Trick or Animal Friendship, is an ability that enables one to control beasts.

Jolee Bindo is talented in Beast Trick:

Jolee Bindo displays Beast Control a creature from Korriban:

Bastila Shan

Respect Bastila Shan:

"The Force fights with me!"


There is immense power in the Shan bloodline:

"Though there was immense power in the Shan bloodline, there is also a streak of unorthodoxy."

Source: The Old Republic Encyclopedia

Combat Skill

Bastila defeats one of the Sith aboard Revan's flagship:

She knocks out a guard with a single hit:

Bastila contends with Darth Malak, one of the greatest swordsmen of his era, long enough for Carth and Revan to escape:

Note: This is the only portion of the fight we see. There is more to the fight, of course.

Bastila seemingly contends with Revan, Jolee Bindo, and Juhani all at once. She is beaten but is unscathed. However, it should be noted that the Jedi were not trying to kill her, so their effort levels are questionable.


Force Heal is a Force power that can heal physical wounds or traumas and accelerate the body's natural healing and regenerative rates.

Bastila reveals that she used her powers to keep a badly wounded Revan from dying, sustaining him for an extensive period of time:

Bastila knows Vital Transfer:


Telepathy is the ability to communicate thoughts or affect the mind of another.

Bastila can utilize Mind Tricks:

Force Slow

Force Slow is a power that slows down the movements and perceptions of an enemy.

Bastila can utilize Force Slow:


Telekinesis is a common Force ability than affords the user the ability to alter and distort reality around them.

Bastila can use Force Slam, Force Grip, and Force Whirlwind:

Bastila telekinetically shoves Mission Vao, knocking her to the ground:

Bastila Force Pulls a guard into her cage so hard that the cage is knocked open, a feat she accomplished with a neural disruptor afflicting her:

Bastila displays Saber Throw:

Bastila unleashes a Force Wave that knocks back and down Revan (only shortly before the Battle of Rakata Prime), Jolee Bindo, and Juhani simultaneously:

Note: This appears to be game mechanics, but it is tantamount to a cutscene as this always happens, regardless of what is done by the player. It is not a varying game mechanic.

Force Stasis

Force Stasis is a Force power which deadens the senses, perceptions and moving capacity of another, freezing them in a catatonic state.

Amped by the Star Forge, Bastila freezes two of Revan's companions with Force Stasis:

Note: The companion aside from Carth is selected by the player, but since whoever it is, regardless of whether it is a Force-sensitive Jedi like Jolee or Juhani or not, Bastila will still place in them in Stasis, so it should be accepted that she could do this to Force users such as Jolee Bindo and Juhani.

Battle Meditation

Battle Meditation is a power enabling an individual to boost the morale and physical performance of his allies and simultaneously erode enemies' wills to fight and hinder their physical performances.

Bastila is one of the youngest Jedi to ever master Battle Meditation:

Bastila Shan utilizes Battle Meditation to enable the Sith fleet to gain an advantage over the Jedi fleet. Upon her redemption, she utilizes Battle Meditation such that the Jedi fleet swiftly gains the upper hand, defeats the Sith Fleet and destroys the Star Forge:

Force Deflection

Force Deflection is a power which enables one to deflect physical and energy attacks.

Bastila knows and is talented in Force Deflection:

Force Valor

Force Valor is a power that enables a Jedi to increase their physical performance and resolve.

Bastila knows Force Valor: