Shadow Stalker

@WillPayton said:

Trying to translate from the Greek will be inherently flawed. You need to go back to the original Klingon to truly understand what the Bible says.

Wait, I thought the Elves were the first to be awakened? Therefore, we need to translate from the original Tenwar... ;-)

@King Saturn Although I don't believe you have disproved that Jesus is God in any of your statements, I'm not going to debate with you. Just wanted everyone else on the thread to understand that the generally accepted (and indeed central tenants) of Christianity hold that Jesus is fully God and fully man. As you state, I encourage everyone to read the Bible for themselves and not just take someone else's word for it.

@satyrgod said:

@Shadow Stalker said:" In fact, that is the principle reason why he was crucified, because he claimed to be God and the Jews considered that blasphemy."

My understanding is that Jesus, if he actually lived in the historical sense, was crucified as a radical threat to the Roman occupation of Jeruselum, a populist threat to the rabbinical leadership of his peoples' tribes and a disappointment of the common people for failing to deliver them from the yolk of Roman oppression.

That was why the Romans would have crucified him but it was the Jews that wanted him crucified for claiming to be God. At least once or twice, the Jews tried to stone him for claiming to be "I AM", which Yahweh (God the Father) stated shall be used by none other than Himself.

@pooty The research I have done on those verses indicate his position, not his authority or nature. For example, just because I am second in line does not mean the person who is first is greater than me, just that he is in a different position. By becoming man he, "temporarily became a little lower than the angels" (Hebrews 2:7) indicating a lower position. The Greek word translated as "greater" (meizon) in that verse generally refers to position. In other passages when it says Christ was greater than the angels, it uses a different Greek work to indicate greater in quality. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just stating what my research has shown me and what every Protestant doctrine I have encountered has believed. I also believe that Jesus is equal to God because only a perfect being (which, as Jesus said, "Only the Father is truly good") could pay the redemption price for sin. Which is why I think your second point actually shows Jesus is one with the Father.

Whatever you believe, the important thing to remember is that God loved mankind so much, he paid the penalty (i.e. redemption price) for our sins such that we could live in a restored relationship with Him.

“I and the Father are one” (John 10:30)

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”

Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood."

"...God was manifest in the flesh..." 1 Timothy 3:16

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel". Isaiah 7:14

"For unto us a Child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder: and his name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:6

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1 Jesus is "The Word".

"because he had not only broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making Himself equal with God." John 5:18

Jesus said:"I and my Father are one." John 10:30

John 14:9-11 "...Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

"...lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:4

"Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;" Phillipians 2:6

"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form," Colossians 2:9

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." 1 Timothy 3:16

And there are many more. Again, you are free to believe what you want but I'm just stating that all the Catholic and Protestant denominations I know of consider Jesus to be God.

@King Saturn brings up an interesting point about why Jesus would say what he said on the cross if Jesus and the Father are one. @King Saturn is free to believe what he wants about Jesus' divinity but for the record, it is my understanding that all Catholic and Protestant denominations consider Jesus as God. There are literally dozens of verses in the Bible where Jesus and others identify him as one with God. In fact, that is the principle reason why he was crucified, because he claimed to be God and the Jews considered that blasphemy.

The verse that was mentioned above is primarily for man's benefit. Upon the cross, Jesus took upon himself all the sins of man that ever were or ever will be. Because sin is abhorrent to God, in a sense, Jesus was separated from God the father. He did not stop being God but was trying to reinforce that sin separates us from a holy God. It is a difficult concept to express so I would understand why the question would come about. However, taken in the context of the whole Bible, Jesus clearly identified himself as God.

@Glitch_Spawn Who's saying selfishness is a right? I just asked if you would be ok with someone who makes less than you taking your money.

@Glitch_Spawn said:

@pooty said:

@Glitch_Spawn: A few reasons

It's not fair. In america we are always talking about fair. Women, minorities, and homosexuals should be treated fair like everyone else. Why does that not apply to the rich? If everyone pays 10% of their taxes that is fair. If everyone pays 20% of their taxes that is fair. I prepare income taxes for many mid-to-low income people. Due to tax credits they get back THOUSANDS more then they put in. Also, if you apply "have the rich pay more in taxes attitude" where does it stop? Should they have to pay more for the same car? Or pay more for the same food? Also if the government needs more money, is that because the rich are not paying enough taxes or because the government is screwing up the money. We just spent over a billion dollars to re-elect a president who already had the job. If i'm one of the uber rich I do not want to pay more in taxes just so the government has more money to burn. Throwing more money at a problem rarely solves the problem. You gotta get to the root cause.

@inferiorego said:

Why should success be punished?

What the country and IRS should do is stop letting said companies and people get away with not paying taxes because of BS write offs. Everyone should have to pay the same percentage.

But we are talking about the top one percent. Multi Million and billionaires. They are still going to be absolutely loaded. If it weren't a proven fact that this system works I'd be a little more skeptical. And why does money always define success in the eyes of politicians? There are very successful people who are no where near the top one percent.

So, you would be OK with someone who has less than you taking money from you simply because, "you have more"?

One other point, even if we tax the top 1% more, that is a mere drop in the bucket and won't change a thing. As someone else said, you first have to fix the spending problem. In other words, you don't keep pouring more water in a bucket with a hole. You plug the hole first.

C.S. Lewis has some great words of wisdom and inspiration. Here are just a couple:

“Do not waste time bothering whether you ‘love’ your neighbor; act as if you did. As soon as we do this we find one of the great secrets. When you are behaving as if you loved someone, you will presently come to love him.”

― C.S. Lewis

“When we lose one blessing, another is often most unexpectedly given in its place.”

― C.S. Lewis

I read this today and thought it very powerful. For those that are not familiar with the Narnia books, Aslan is an allegory for Jesus.

“It isn't Narnia, you know," sobbed Lucy. "It's you. We shan't meet you there. And how can we live, never meeting you?"

"But you shall meet me, dear one," said Aslan.

"Are -are you there too, Sir?" said Edmund.

"I am," said Aslan. "But there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.”

― C.S. Lewis, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

Speaking of revivals, they don't have to be emotionally charged. My church regularly holds revival services that are very similar to the service we would have on Sunday morning. I think the difference is in the attitude of those attending. By sacrificing the time it takes to attend a service every night of the week (in addition to work and all the other stuff life throws at us), it helps to get your priorities in order. It helps you realize what's most important and kind of refocuses what you are most committed to in life. Plus, it gives the speaker more time to elaborate on a message since he (or she) can spread it over several messages rather than fit it all into one day.

I also agree with what I think @_Hawk_ is saying, I don't like generating emotional responses just for the sake of getting emotional.