seekquaze's forum posts

#1 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@westy206 said:

He was a carpenter wasnt he? Any way he was trying to live a normal life before joining the Avengers just trying to make sure his son had a normal life. So I would say he had turned it around. He was an interesting Avenger so i think many fans would have him back. As for Steve letting him back I think he knows what an asset Ares is and would rather not disrespect the God of war by turning him away and give him at least a second chance.

So? Once he joined the team he came across to me more as a liability than an asset. He hardly ever stops to think about his actions and the few times he used his "war god brain" it was for direct attacks anyone could have thought of. He sided with Osborn and still had great difficulty controlling his bloodlust. I think he only joined because he loves to fight and as he once said being a warrior lets him indulge his bloodlust for a sometimes worthy cause. He is hardly an asset when the likes of Hulk, Hyperion, Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man, or several others available. Frankly, given his past, unrepentant nature, and general actions on the team I cannot imagine Steve in his right mind letting him on the team. Iron Man only let him on by whitewashing his past and it did not make sense to a lot of fans. I also have not heard of Ares having that many fans so I don't think many would be eager to have him back.

I think he meant Scarlet Witch committed genocide and is referencing House of M.

How was that genocide? She depowered mutants, but did not kill them unless you want to say the act of depowering is genocide which I suppose is possible. But iirc she was mentally disturbed at the time which the same cannot be said for Ares.

You have to understand the time period in which Ares was recruited as an Avenger. The Avengers were a mess at that point. Cap & Iron Man were warring against each other, I think Iron Man was just trying to put together the most powerful team that he could, he didn't really consider backgrounds. I think he did some shady deals with villains and he helped create an android Thor clone with Skrull Hank & Reed Richards that ended up malfunctioning and causing the Avengers some real problems. If anything it would seem that Steve should have less trouble trusting Iron Man than Ares. Iron Man was is responsible for alot of really bad occurrences in the last 5-7 years.

I remember reading the Mighty Avengers story arc where Tony put together that team. I recall a funny moment in Carol states that the enemies they fight are not scared of power and Tony agrees and says with all the heroes they can choose from he wants a team with diverse talents. But in the end he formed a team composed of mainly heavy-hitters. Thor was still dead and he had alienated Hercules and some of the other heroes commonly called upon to form the avengers. They put the highly mentally unstable Sentry on the team. Ares' own past was whitewashed as the "guy who fought Hercules a few times." You are right in nearly every decision Iron Man made during that era was highly questionable.

#2 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfus said:

Hi everyone. I want to ask you guys a question about TWSAIS. What I want to know is: how powerful exactly are they? How would you rank them?

We know that TWSAIS are above skyfather level. They barely have any feat, but they were given a description.

They are celestial beings who feed on the energy of the many ragnarok cicles. That means that they are probably very old, right? We also know that for them, skyfathers are nothing, or better yet, skyafathers are like toys to TWSAIS.

Now, considering all this,

1- How powerful do you think they are? Do you think they re like elder gods

2- Do you think they stand a chance against galactus?

3- Do you think they can fight the celestials(they are considered celestial beings, but they are part of the celestials, so therefore comes this question)

Truth is we know little about them. It is hard to confirm as to whether or not they are above skyfathers. Mystical beings like gods often work by weird rules where they can be all-powerful in one instance, but helpless due to some weird mystical rule the next. Are TWSAIS above skyfathers or did they somehow bind all of Asgard to the Loom of Fate and able to manipulate it preventing anyone from attacking them directly? Did they live on a plane of existence the Asgardians could not get to the same way gods can travel to earth and Asgard, but mortals cannot?

For your questions:

1. I would say maybe higher level gods. They were powerless to stop Rune Thor despite Rune Thor being at best only slightly above Odin. Thor's advantage was they could not control him the same way they controlled the rest of Asgard. The fact breaking the cycle appears to have made them disappear makes them look weaker then skyfathers. They cannot just punch through dimensions to get to ours. There appear to be specific rules that govern them. I think they are probable an older set of Norse gods...maybe from a previous generation who tried to hang on past their time by taking advantage of Ragnarok and setting it up as a cycle.

2. No, I do not. Their power outside of Asgard appears to be severely limited.

3. Celestial beings means they are of the heavens. All gods are celestial beings. They may be a bit more ethereal than other gods, but they are not part of the Celestials. I would say they are far below the Celestials.

#3 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said

Wolverine has killed every member of his family, Red Hulk assaulted the White House and tried to kill the president, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver committed terrorist attacks and the former committed genocide.

From what I understand with Wolverine those instances of killing his family were not for giggles. Daken was a sociopath who had no interest in changing and would continue to target innocent people. The other instance is some group out for revenge against Wolverine trained a force of Wolverine' illegitimate children and he did not know who they were. When Wolverine kills people it is usually under specific circumstances or reasons. He does not do it for laughs. Same for Red Hulk who from what I understand truly regretted what he had done and joined the Avengers to try and redeem himself. When did Quicksilver commit genocide?

In each case Ares is different since he would do all those things and more for laughs. During him time at the Avengers he once released a dangerous weapon just to increase conflict.

#4 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see Ares winning. He lacks the patience and foresight to plan to defeat someone like Sentry. That is what almost always holds Ares back.

#5 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

@humanrocket said:

@waezi2 said:

@humanrocket: Your sure Cap would accept him?

Why wouldn't Steve let him in the team? He's allowed Black Widow, Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch and both Hulk and Red Hulk on the team before all of which are more questionable acceptance to the team than Ares.

And Sandman.

I suppose you have a point, but none of them was as bloodthirsty as Ares.

Yeah, that is why Ares never worked as an avenger for me. Black Widow, Hawkeey, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Hulk and Red Hulk were never truly villainous or if they were they were not THAT evil. They each truly reformed. And as far as I know Sandman himself is a bank robber and such, but not that terrible of a person.

Then you have Ares who is so bloodthirsty his own family thinks he goes too far. Heck, he goes so far I don't think most war gods want anything to do with him. As an Avenger he had trouble following orders and reigning in his dark nature. That makes him a liability to the team. As a villain he tried to start WWIII for no other reason than laughs. He is worse than all the other reformed villains who joined the team combined. I can see plenty of reasons why Steve would not let him return to the team.

#6 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's Zeus beating the hell out of the Hulk.

It's a total mismatch but cool nonetheless.

I know it may be somewhat juvenile of me, but I always like seeing those images posted. I think it is because Hulk's most vocal fans insist he is unbeatable to anyone if "angry" enough and Pak was writing the Hulk as particularly powerful and unbeatable. Yet not only did Zeus give Hulk the worst beating of his life, but comments by Pak imply Hulk was trying to fight back and simple overwhelmed. It was Pak's way of showing that Hulk was not the end all and be all of power.

#7 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

Like Thor, I would like Thor to explore the other pantheons. Maybe fight Indra, Perun, or Leir. I think the battle with Leir would be especially interesting. I can see arrogant Leir coming to Olympus to challenge their greatest warriors, trashing Ares with ease, only to be hard pressed by Hercules. Maybe also have him to to the Xian and test his western fighting skills against Chines warriors like Monkey King and Guan Yu.

#8 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

@seekquaze: Are you saying there has been a reference to an untold story where Zeus was humbled by another pantheon early on in his reign or are you saying that is how you think things should've/would've/did go?

A bit of both though more of inference. Zeus' bio in vol. 14 states at some point the Olympians were involved in a conflict against the Egyptian gods. Freya stated during the Manchester gods story arc of JIM that before the pantheons agreed to stay out of each others internal affairs they warred constantly. The Council of Godheads once commented that they considered Zeus unreasonable. In myth, Zeus' squabbling family put aside their rivalries long enough to momentarily unite against Zeus and overthrow him. This group included his loyal daughter Athena. A common interpretation of this is they got fed up with his shenanigans and the event forced Zeus to try and be a better king. His overall portrayal in Marvel tends to emphasis his more negative traits. Yes, he can be the wise father of gods and men you expect, but more often than not he lacks the wisdom or at least you have to go through several layers of jerk to reach it.

Now, combined all that with what we know of Zeus now and try to imagined him as he was fresh off his victory over the Titans, newly crowned king of the gods. Proud and strong and as far as he knows the most powerful being around. He has yet to encounter another group. He is arrogant among a group of arrogant gods. Sooner or later the Olympians encounter another group of gods. Maybe Zeus is flying along as an eagle in Egypt and sees a priestess or goddess even bathing in the Nile. He makes advances, she rejects him, and Zeus being Zeus does something stupid thanks to wounded pride. The Egyptian gods hear about it and are offended. Maybe Zeus is pisst that another group of being dare claim to be gods or his equals. If Zeus won any conflict with another group of gods his already swelled ego would get bigger. I figure the only way Zeus matured a bit and learned to work with other gods and at least pay lip service to the idea they are equals. Instead of allowing the Olympians to war with Asgard he agreed to a true of sorts with Odin where each side thought they won. Now also take the general arrogance of the Olympians and why Zeus is sometimes considered one of the more mature ones. I figure that just like the internal rebellion matured him a bit to be a better king to the Olympians some outside incident forced him to realize he wasn't the biggest kid on the block. Since the Egyptian gods were once ruled by Ra, an aspect of Atum the Demogorge, it seems like it would be either him or Odin. Odin because the Roman never conquered the Germans who once worshipped the Aesir and some comic stories feature the gods battling other gods on behalf of their worshippers.

So yeah, mostly inference based on Zeus' personality and a few comments.

#9 Posted by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

That depends on what you consider a true God. In one comic Galactus says this.

"Sphinx! You share the folly of all your lowly species. You believe that power itself makes one a God! But even Galactus, to whom all is possible, even Galactus whose every passing whim becomes reality — even Galactus is no God."

I am familiar with that quote. I have used it myself in cases where people try to lump Asgardians and Olympians into the same category as other superpowered beings or extradimensional aliens.

I was basing my response off of your quote and definition of godhood. You are the one who stated that you considered Galactus and the to other abstracts/cosmic entities to be the true gods of the MU. To me, that indicated you do not consider Hercules, Thor or other gods "true gods." My response was that there is room for both lesser and greater gods. Galactus himself meets many of the criteria for godhood: mythic origin, great power, immortaility, connection/embodiment of a basic function of the universe, worship, etc. In Marvel, gods are at least partially defined by a magical/divine essence that Galactus lacks and so he does not consider himself a "true god." Mystical entities like the Vishanti, Dormammu and cosmic abstracts like Death and Eternity are sometimes called gods and treated as such. Yet they often come across as something that is beyond the conventional physical gods like Hercules.

#10 Edited by seekquaze (612 posts) - - Show Bio

Despite that fact Hercules is still a headstrong, alpha male type person and has defied Zeus from time to time. Hercules has lived long enough to see Zeus' temper cause him to make rash decisions and thus he knows Zeus isn't infallible. Knowing this would also make it easier/more likely for Hercules to defy Zeus when he thinks Zeus is wrong despite respecting him immensely.

In the end, I think that is what is truly terrifying thing about Zeus. The combination of his power in all its forms combined with his temper and other character flaws. Zeus gets angry when the other gods question or go against his decisions, but considering the sheer number of times he has been wrong or does not even think or consider he could be wrong on important issues even when the correct choice is obvious gives the other gods every reason to question practically all of his decisions. When Zeus is correct it is all good, but sometimes when he is wrong there is hell to pay. His temper is one of the worse parts. If he hears a blasphemous boast he might let it go. Other times he might destroy an entire city. Worse is if he is wrong or enraged there is no one on Olympus who he will listen to or that has the power to stop him. I cannot help but think ion some untold story when he was a young king Zeus once tried his crap with another pantheon of gods or on a group of mortals outside of his territory. Maybe the Egyptians? I imagine Zeus got the crap beaten out of him and the point was made in no uncertain terms that his temper issues would not be tolerated by other gods and that he isn't the biggest kid on the block. I figure something like that would have been necessary to force Zeus to mature a bit.

Hercules has often been called the "favorite" son of Zeus and Zeus clearly favors him. Yet how many times has Hercules been on the receiving end of Zeus' injustice? At least five times by my reckoning not including his original mortal life. Zeus tries to justify it with reasons that make sense, but coming from his mouth sound only like well-rehearsed excuses. If Zeus treats his favorite like that what does he do to people he doesn't like?