seekquaze's forum posts

#1 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

Myth Thor defeats Myth Hercules. Whether Herc is immortal or not does not mean anything because the Olympians could steal be injured to the point they might as well be dead or better off dead.

Physically it is hard to say who is stronger. Thor is usually regarded as the strongest of the Norse gods and the Norse version of either Hercules or Zeus depending on who is doing the equating. Both were supposed to be the physical embodiments of strength for their respective cultures.

Except it would never come down to a strength test. Thor would fight this like he does all of his fights. A single hammer throw that can shatter mountains tears through Hercules living him a stain on the Earth. Thor then goes home and drinks an ocean's worth of mead. I don't see Hercules being able to overcome the range advantages of such a weapon.

#2 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

Chucky has a big problem in this fight. Namely CHUCKY CANNOT KILL THE LEPRECHAUN. The Leprechaun has had his entire body blown to pieces and reformed moments later. He shrugs off bullet and stab wounds like they are nothing. He is physically stronger than Chucky, much tougher, and has magical powers that can do nearly anything. His gold is usually hidden and not a huge weakness. The only other one is really a four-leaf clover or wrought iron. And there are no four-leaf clovers around and steak knife is not close enough.

Chucky meanwhile has only limited knowledge of magic and can be blown to pieces or disabliity numerous other ways to lose.

Leprecahun walks away from this one.

#3 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

in mythology and marvel comics Hercules is often stated to be the favorite son of Zeus. Hera told Zeus to his face that he allows Hercules to get away with actions he would never allow his other children to do. Do you think possible it is possible that Zeus wants to be Hercules or at least live viciously through him?

1. Hercules has accomplished most everything on his own compared to Zeus himself or his other children and is the most accomplished.

Zeus won the Titan War primarily by relying on ideas given to him by women of all people and his brothers. As king he passes the buck anytime a difficult decision comes up. Many of his other children relied on daddy to provide them with weapons, position or opportunity.

Hercules not only rejected the easy life and many of the magical weapons the gods offered him, but took about arduous tasks on his own. Even in modern day he relies more on his own strength and abilities without running to dad any time the going gets tough. Compare that to most other gods, like Ares, who still rely on Zeus to bail them out of trouble. Heck, Zeus himself might wish he was as accomplished as Hercules.

2. Hercules is one of the few Olympians worthy of true respect.

People and other gods may respect Zeus' raw power and position, but one hears little of people respecting the man himself. Certainly not the other Olympians and little enough the other gods in Marvel. Modern mortals have little respect for the major Olympians as well and the same seems to go with the other gods. No one has the same respect for them that has been confirmed that Asgard or its inhabitants command. I think on some level, deep, deep down Zeus realizes this and why he may overcompensate when it comes to respect.

The exception of course is Hercules. While he may be regarded as something of a joke for his oafish behavior, he has the true respect of Thor and his fellow heroes. And I think of mortal kind in general. This is one of the primary reasons Ares hates Hercules as he revealed in Incredible Hercules. For all of his flaws, Hercules is a lot better than many of his fellow gods.

3. Hercules has the life Zeus wants.

Zeus may like the authority and respect being king grants him, but I think he cares little for the responsibility. He is stuck having to set a moral example, settle the complaints of the other gods, and deal with everybody wanting something from him.

Hercules has the hedonistic lifestyle free from responsibility Zeus wants. He has the true respect and friendship of other beings. If he breaks something as long has he fixes the damage people will usually forgive him. They don't hold him to quite the same standards as Zeus. And best for him is he can go adventuring and womanizing as much as he wants yet his loyal wife Hebe will always be there for him without too much complaint. Zeus on the other hand is stuck with Hera.

By letting Hercules run around and slide on certain issues Zeus not only gets some glory thanks to Hercules being his son, but thanks to the similarities between the two Hercules lives the life Zeus on some level always wanted, but never got due to his own personal flaws.

thoughts?

#4 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Rider, I am sure Thor has done something bad in his life that he has to pay for.

Only problem with this is beings far worse than Thor has shrugged off the penance stare with no ill effects. So I would not guarantee it an instant win in this case. Thor's godly nature has sometimes made him immune to attacks that work on mortals.

#5 Edited by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

The question is often asked: "Why is Thor a god?" But I ask the opposite question: "Why is Thor not a god?" And this is the polytheistic definition of god I am talking about.

He meets all of the basic requirements of being a god: Virtually Immortal, control over nature, weird, magical origin, part of a group of beings that control an afterlife and have been worshipped. And he can hear prayers. The last bit is treated as different than telepathy and is one thing that separates him from other characters like Eternals or mutants like Storm. Several stories have explored the theme of how mortal worship can sustain a god or at least bring them back if they succumb to physical death. He is also connected to every storm on Earth which takes care of the symbolism aspect.. You then have cosmic entities ranging from Galatcus to Eternity who refer to him as a god and not as some snot-nosed pretender.

So what, if anything, prevents him from being a god?

#6 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel bad for bumping this but... If Thor is a god of thunder and lightning would that mean that there would be no more lightning on earth if he died? If it doesn't what classifies him as a god? The pure fact he is from Asgard? That would just make him an alien.

I thought I would throw in my two cents to this.

It is true that many writers portray Thor and other gods as not that different from other superpowered beings or superpowerful races. But a few writers especially in recent years have bothered to sketch out some traits gods possess that separate them from other beings. These traits are only brought up in stories where they matter.

Thor and Asgardians possess many of the traits one associates with godhood: ability to hear prayers that isn't telepathy, virtual immortality, control of an afterlife and over nature, beings of unexplainable magic, etc. Beyond that all gods possess an divine power or energy other beings lack. This is a power that the godhunter Desak and iirc Gorr the God Butcher both sought out to distinguish gods from other superpowered beings. Gods have some sort of spiritual connection with mortals, that while they are not dependent on for their continue existence and power nor does it define them, grants them a form of resurrective immortality as long as they are sufficiently remembered. If a god is remembered enough they may eventually resurrect on their own if killed. Some recent stories have toyed with the idea that gods do not have definite histories, but are stories and symbolism given form so while their stories may sound contradictory or implausible virtually all of them are "true" in one form or another as any scientific fact. This symbolism is shown in some ways by Ares and Thor. Ares has been stated to be a physical manifestation of war everywhere throughout time. Thor is on some level connected to every storm on Earth if not beyond. A mutant like Storm or Iceman may possess power over the weather, but they are not gods because they lack these other attributes.

For a better comparison, Earth's Eternals have been mistaken as gods in the past and have physical and energy powers and immortality on par with many gods. Yet they always insist that they are not gods and treat gods as separate beings. They usually draw the difference in being that Eternals are creatures of super-science compared to the magical nature of the gods. They also lack many of the other attributes of gods that make the gods gods.

Even if a being is physically more powerful than a god it would not make said being a god because they lack these attributes. Heck, Galactus once called it a failing of mortals to think that power alone is what made one a god and Galactus usually insist that he is not one despite having many traits one would think a god would possess. Some characters in the comics may insist that Thor and others like him are only aliens no different than any other from outerspace or not gods at all. In this case they would be wrong since they are traits all gods in marvel have demonstrated to share and beings as high as Galactus and Eternity have confirmed it.

@jcg79 said:

No, he's not nearly mysterious and stand-offish enough to quality as a god. He's just a superhero with an exotic origin.

Bast in Black Panther for example is much more god-like, but it also does not interact with mortals that much.

Being mysterious and stand-offish does not make or break a god. A he is the same basic type of creature as Bast the Black Panther worships so that makes him a god. In the old stories, Thor would regularly come down to Earth and interact with mortals just like the Greek Gods. This familiarity did not change the fact that they are gods.

@mcdavid said:

However he still seems fairly popular in the other 8 realms under the guard of the asgardians (Thor's Pantheon) . Most of these other 8 worlds are populated by mythological creatures as well, and although the vast majority are no way near the same level as the asgardians, it probably be wiser to argue that the other realms view them a bit more as nobility and kingship than actual gods. It's kinda somewhere in between. A feudal, caste system if you like.

I think this is a good way of putting it. Thor and the rest of the Asgardians are still considered gods by the other eight realms because that is what they are just as giants are giants and dwarves are dwarves. But they are held in less reverence. Many of the other inhabitants of the nine worlds are as physically and sometimes as magically powerful as the gods and at least as advanced if not in some ways more so. So the gulf between them and the gods is less so the same awe Asgard inspired in mortals it does not inspire in the other eight realms, but it does not change the fact that the Asgaridans still possess the attributes that make them gods that the other inhabitants of the nine worlds lack.

#7 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

I heard that Wonder Woman was once made the Olympian goddess of truth. Is this true and if so what did it entail? Any new powers or responsibilities like the ability to hear prayers or or was it merely another title?

What about goddess of war? Since no one really worships the Olympians any more how important is the title? Does her mere presence incite violence around or or anything else or is only a title?

#8 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

@spambot said:

Odin didn't possess the same knowledge as RKT. RKT sacrificed both eyes and hung on the tree until he actually died rather than just for 3 days which gave him full knowledge of the runes and rune magic. The OdinForce told him he had to go further than Odin went in order to end the cycles.

I have always found this to be debatable. Odin knew of the cycles and that TWSAIS were manipulating the Asgardians. He learned of it each time he sacrificed his eye and hung upon the world tree. He was unable to do anything about it because Odin was fully Asgardian. He was under the control of the Loom of Fate which TWSAIS controlled. One reason he fathered Thor was to have someone who was not fully Asgardian who might be able to do something about it.

The Odinforce told Thor he had to go further because if he merely sacrificed a single eye and went to the point of death he would only be repeating Odin's sacrifice which would be meaningless. Remember, Odin was the one who originally discovered the runes and secrets of life and death through his sacrifices.

#9 Edited by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

The wording of your post does not make much sense, but from trying to understand it.

There is no evidence that Those Who Sit In Shadow are part of the Demiurge. We have no idea where they come from. We have no idea how powerful they were. He did defeat them since they were powerless to stop him and were implied to be heavily tied to the Loom of Fate. There are more subtle forms to power besides two fists sluggin it out.

That a lot of that power comes from the outside does not matter. Once it is within Thor it is part of him and therefore his power. The Odinforce alone makes Thor as powerful as Odin or Zeus and more powerful than pretty much anyone on Earth or short of Galactus in space. The knowledge of the runes greatly enhanced Thor's knowledge of the universe especially of life and death. He learned how to use the Odinforce much more efficiently. So whereas King Thor would have tried to blast Mangog into nothingness Rune Thor simply dissolved him by undoing the spell that created him. Knowledge of the runes granted Thor knowledge of the truth of Those Who Sit in Shadow and of the nature of Asgard.

The Loom of Fate was the means Those Who Sit in Shadow controlled the destiny of the Gods of Asgard. Thor was somewhat outside of this because he was of both Asgard and Earth and giving him a mortal identity further outside of their control. Destroying the Loom of Fate was supposed to end the cycle of Ragnarok and free them to pursue their own destinies. This is what Thor intended when he brought back Asgard on Earth. It is also one reason Loki can be something other than a villain. At least, that was the point of all of this. Other writers have sort of changed some elements of it back.

A strong argument could be made that Odin had the same power and knowledge as Rune Thor. He sacrificed his eye and hung on the world tree for the same knowledge and already possessed the Odinpower. However, Thor's earthly nature allowed him to do what Odin could not and break the cycle. Further, Rune Thor displayed a level of maturity Odin often lacks.

So yes, Rune Thor is incredibly powerful. The Odinpowered grantes Thor raw might. The runes grant him insight into the universe to better understand its cycles to manipulate those and better control over the Odinforce so he can do things he could not have done before. Instead of trying to hammer everything into submission like he often tries he learned how to adjust the flow of events to produce the outcome he desires and approach things from other ways instead of direct, brute force.

#10 Posted by seekquaze (724 posts) - - Show Bio

Zues fared well against Galactus way better than overrated asgardians ever did

A major reason for this was Zeus was powered up by Mikaboshi to an unknown degree and Galactus was taken to Earth right before he was about to eat.