@RazzaTazz: Thank you for saying that cause I honestly and truly care about what people in the internet think of me.

@RazzaTazz: I couldn't agree more. ^_^

I think Veidt used similar imagery in an ad for Nostalgia at some point in the Watchmen comics.

Much ado about nothing, really. There are plenty of images of half-naked men putting clothes on and pulling them off in comics. It's particularly ironic that Dick Grayson was singled out since, during Devin Grayson's run, she seemed to go out of her way to find reasons to show him walking around with no shirt on. Now, obviously, women in comics are generally presented in a much more overtly sexualized way than men, but using this specific imagery as a leading example of it really fails to make the point in a meaningful way.

@Babs said:

@sesquipedalophobe said:

@menaceforever said:

Why don I find that attractive...........like at all.

You were reared in a generation without the oppression of socks. It takes others years to become orphaned to the illusory, that the shin is the most attractive part of a woman.

This. So much.

I second that...

Love your observations, and the double standard makes sense to me, since really, gambit pulling a glove tightly onto his hand suggest a level of sexuality, not a lot. but it does.  One thing I do know is that it is not common for the average mind to see that as a symbol of penetration of phallic fingers into foreign skin.  Women in most societies have been seen as sexual objects and some religions dictate how much skin can be shown, when things like leggings removed are shown, it speaks primordially to our collective unconscious of sexual desire. I don't agree that there should be the double standdard, I just acknowledge is is there.

Women's actions and behaviors, for the most part, are inherently sexy. Even when no one is around and women aren't intending to be sexy, we as a society, over many years, have associated sexual and sensual feelings with many activities in the life of a typical female. Gambit or Dick Grayson wouldn't seductively pull on their costumes because in our culture---in our society--- they are males and males just get the job done, as they say. LOL

@sixsource said:

Women's actions and behaviors, for the most part, are inherently sexy. Even when no one is around and women aren't intending to be sexy, we as a society, over many years, have associated sexual and sensual feelings with many activities in the life of a typical female. Gambit or Dick Grayson wouldn't seductively pull on their costumes because in our culture---in our society--- they are males and males just get the job done, as they say. LOL

How are the actions and behaviors of women inherently sexy? I've seen some clumsy women around, nothing sexy about them walking into a pole or door, nor is struggling to put on or take off a shirt.

Depending on the male, the taking off or putting on of a shirt (especially if a dude is ripped or has a muscles), or maybe pulling up pants and buttoning them is seen as seductive.

I like this post. It makes me wonder:

Do men and women have fundamentally different sexualities with different triggers?

If so do gay men/ women have triggers linked to their gender or their orientation (or some combination)...for example would a gay man be attracted to a male character pulling up his stockings seductively the way some straight men respond to women doing the same thing? I only ask because I am interested in how it effects the reception of some of the images proposed by others in this thread.

Comics evolved in a male dominated culture and in the 30s, 40s, 50s when (as another poster put it) there was the tyranny of the stockings and the main feature men (in Western culture at least) would fawn over was the leg. Just think about the images drawn on the bombers of WWII.

As comics move into the modern age they will begin to evolve in the face of cultural changes. The influence of porn into the mainstream has started to alter the notions of sexuality for an entirely new generation just as sure as the expanding female and multicultural audience has shifted the culture to begin to create and explore a larger diversity of characters. So as porn makes its changes things like fawning over the female leg become more tame.

Finally, I am not from this current generation and would quite happily watch an attractive lady pull on her boots/socks/stockings all day long. So (serious question) does that make me a perv? Does that make me a sexist? Or does it just make me a straight man?

I might have to read this new comic. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Kryptonian culture more Vulcan than Terran? They seem to want to make Supergirl the stereotypical "angry teenager" for some reason (counterpointing her SA/BA personality?Contrasting her cousin's personality?), but really she should be cool, collected, and emotionally distant. She should also be a scientific prodigy (by Earth standards), and somewhat arrogant. Spock or Brainiac 5 would be closer to what she should be like, than the writing I've seen for the character. I'm basing this, of course, on descriptions/displays of Kryptonian culture, and the attitudes and behaviors of survivors (most of whom are "unstable" at the very least). Also, why would she want to stay on Earth proper? I think the move to Kandor she made a few years ago made perfect sense! It may be hundreds of years advanced from final-days Krypton, but Earth culture/technology is many millennia behind. Another option would be to have her join the LEGION, ala JLU. I actually read the first few years' issues of her (Pre-New 52) series, and read several stories of her with the Titans, Supergirl: Power, etc. This always bothered me. Feel free to rebut.

I'll shut up now. ;-)

@RazzaTazz:

Comic Books are usually geared towards both men and women, but tend to be a bit more geared towards men than women. Because of this it isn't that difficult to imagine why females are generally depicted performing something that may be considered sexual more often than men.

However, you say men are generally not seen doing something similar. I have to disagree with you there. How often are well-muscled men shown having their shirts ripped across their chest in the thralls of battle? Or having all of their muscles fully rippling from extended use. Or standing in the Superman, or Captain Morgan poses.

Don't get me wrong, more often than not the heroines tend to be portrayed wearing seductive clothing, or being shown in their underwear in the morning, pulling up their stockings, showing off some cleavage, seducing another character, etc. etc. But I just want to point out that both aspects are there, and I do believe they try to appeal to both audiences. However, it tends to be a bit more easy to pick out when something is being geared sexually towards men, then when they are just in general showing off a fit male hero (which I don't think is geared towards a female audience, just a fortunate byproduct for the writers).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@RazzaTazz

@Floopay said:

@RazzaTazz:

Comic Books are usually geared towards both men and women, but tend to be a bit more geared towards men than women. Because of this it isn't that difficult to imagine why females are generally depicted performing something that may be considered sexual more often than men.

However, you say men are generally not seen doing something similar. I have to disagree with you there. How often are well-muscled men shown having their shirts ripped across their chest in the thralls of battle? Or having all of their muscles fully rippling from extended use. Or standing in the Superman, or Captain Morgan poses.

Don't get me wrong, more often than not the heroines tend to be portrayed wearing seductive clothing, or being shown in their underwear in the morning, pulling up their stockings, showing off some cleavage, seducing another character, etc. etc. But I just want to point out that both aspects are there, and I do believe they try to appeal to both audiences. However, it tends to be a bit more easy to pick out when something is being geared sexually towards men, then when they are just in general showing off a fit male hero (which I don't think is geared towards a female audience, just a fortunate byproduct for the writers).

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

I think a lot of people don't consider men in those situations sexual. I have plenty of comics where men are shown in boxers, or where Batman or another character is shown working out without a shirt. I even have comics where guys are in the shower. These situations just aren't considered "stimulating" when men are in them. Heck, Martian Manhunter and Hawkman have nothing but leather straps across their chests, and many male heroes have low-cut (e.g. Plastic Man) shirts and most wear skin-tight clothes, as noted every time this comes up. Even physically weak characters are shown with rippling muscles (Jimmy Olsen, Joker, and Riddler spring to mind). Men are drawn in the same ways (in general) that women are. For every Fire there's a Namor. It's just that nobody cares.

........well i like it!

@RazzaTazz: Going straight off the OP I don't think it's a double standard at all. While I can entertain that idea, I think that comics treat both genders the same but in different ways. The women have to be sexy, but the men have to be "real men" they're fit and strong and brave and all their muscles are on display. In the same way a male character will be killed as a plot device a female will be afflicted with sexual violence instead. Obviously there are exceptions to these observations but they are quite common. I think both genders are subjected to the same treatment but on polarized ends of the same scale.

@RazzaTazz: Yeah, that's valid. I've always just viewed comics (mainly superhero comics) to live off the purest ideas of what a real man looks like and what a real woman looks like. But yeah, on second thought the scales probably do tip towards women in the levels of objectifying.

Didn't Gambit just have a shower scene in his title comic? It happens to girls in common much more often, but I just find it so annoying when people say 'oh sexualization never happens to men,' In fact they also made Dick Grayson a bit of a slut in Young Justice.

@RazzaTazz: I don't know if the issue with Supergirl is really that she's pulling up her socks (or woolen booties, or whatever the hell they are). I think it's probably more to do with the high cut leotard she wears as a costume. That cut is to the top of her hips and if she were wearing a pair of khakis that had been rolled up a bit to allow ample sock coverage, i don't think people would find it quite as seductive. Having said that, i have been known to stop an entire room cold while seductively pulling on a sock... over my head.

That's right everyone. I'm bringing sexy back.

@RazzaTazz: Not in the way i'm bringing it back... badly.

I don't see this changing until the demographics change where females are the ones bringing in the money to sustain the market. Then I am sure we will see Captain America hot and sweaty in shorts now and then instead of being in full uniform. Or we see Superman's uniform torn more often where he is bared chested ( Like Dan Jurgens days)

And I am sure we'd see the sex appeal amped up on Gambit, Nightwing or Roy Harper, but for now your going to get the cheesy shots of your favorite Super Ladies for quite a bit longer

@feebadger said:

That's right everyone. I'm bringing sexy back.

Sexy was already here.

Hey, I don't remember posting on this before!! My memory's getting to me. Maybe it's the pre-school version of Alzheimer's. The one that still sits in a high chair.

@RazzaTazz said:

@CapFanboy: Weren't you voted the craziest member or something for the past year? You shouldn't equate craziness with Alzheimers

Crazy is just funny that nobody understands. Pfft. I know. Alzheimer's has been my friend since I was 3, craziness is that pasty guy that lives down the road with the needles.

@RazzaTazz said:

@CapFanboy: Ok I guess so. I mean ... yes!

*Breaks into piano solo*

@RazzaTazz said:

@CapFanboy: What's the difference between a piano and a fish?

You can't tune a piano...wait, is that right?

@RazzaTazz said:

@CapFanboy: Pianos can't swim

That's why you drown them.

I never noticed this trend, then again I don't read many comics staring women.

(Journey into mystery being the only one for the time being)

Counterpoint = Have you noticed how only men in comics walk around without there shirts? What's up with that?

@TheCrowbar said:

I have NEVER looked at a woman putting a sock on and thought "Damn now that's hot," in anyway shape or form.

I have.

:D

Counterpoint = Have you noticed how only men in comics walk around without there shirts? What's up with that?

@RazzaTazz said:

@Alphaproto said:

Counterpoint = Have you noticed how only men in comics walk around without there shirts? What's up with that?

Women are generally not allowed by law from walking around without a shirt. Both men and women can wear socks though

Actually Women get quite a few shirtless scenes if you count scenes where they're wearing just a bra(which is the case with many costumes) or scenes with scenery covering up certain "bits".

Scherwing!

Didn't know hosiery fetishism was such a big thing. Today I learned...

This is a great point!

The way a woman puts on or takes off almost any item of clothing can absolutely be sexual and exciting.

You've mentioned The Graduate... How many times in movies have we seen the silhouette of a woman (perhaps behind a curtain, screen, or vanity) changing clothes, while characters in the movie get hot and bothered by it... (I mean bothered in a good way.)

in the 50s and 60s strippers used to wear gloves JUST SO THEY COULD TAKE THEM OFF in a seductive manner. No exotic dancer (stripper) ever gets on stage and undresses the same way she would if she were simply getting ready for bed, or changing from her work clothes to more relaxing casual attire.

So, even in comics, we get glimpses of this.... But this is accepted as normal and preferable not only by male readers but female readers as well. As long as they're not crude about it, I have no problem with it...

yeah i have to admit this is just weird. i mean if the author has a fetish for this kind of stuff, go for it...its just...most people don't usually share their fetishes with the rest of the world

@RazzaTazz said:

@Alphaproto said:

Counterpoint = Have you noticed how only men in comics walk around without there shirts? What's up with that?

Women are generally not allowed by law from walking around without a shirt. Both men and women can wear socks though

I actually encourage my wife to walk around without a shirt, but she usually just mumbles something about the kids, or one of her students coming over for a piano lesson.. or some such nonsense...

They're drag queens or had their privates swapped they just haven't wrote that arc yet.

Its a foot fetish thing! :)

they look like boots to me. :)

I don't know about anyone else, but I really have never seen anyone of any gender put on socks in a dignified or seductive way unless they tried WAAAY too hard to do so.

@rlmay3: That is kind of the point, that the artists are taking something mundane and charging it with sexiness.

Gambit spends more time with his clothes off then on.

@gambler: Interesting observation, so do I