RayeGunn

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RayeGunn

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#1  Edited By RayeGunn

@colonyofcells: But what I'm saying is, when that happens, I don't think they will be calling themselves Stormwatch anymore, they'll be called The Authority, in a brand new book. Stormwatch is becoming something totally different, more cosmic, with different characters. Assuming I'm right, of course.

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RayeGunn

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#2  Edited By RayeGunn

@colonyofcells: nonono... THE AUTHORITY! See, they're gonna get lost in another dimension, maybe see or experience something there that makes them take a more pro-active stance on things, then when they make it back to the DCU, they're gonna be stepping up their game, so they can live up to the Authority of old.

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RayeGunn

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#3  Edited By RayeGunn

I don't even get why the Shadow Lords are there at all. In Demon Knights recently, Arthur knighted them, and that was the beginning of Stormwatch. There were no Shadow Lords there then, just Arthur, so why now? I think the Shadow Lords as a concept do a lot of damage to these characters, because here we have the Authority characters who shouldn't be taking shit from anyone, who in Wildstorm had always been in charge of their own actions for better or worse, and they're blindly following orders from these mysterious Shadow Lord people, and we're given no good reason as to why.

And Apollo's dialogue, oh god, it's so bad, I cringe every time I see him talk, especially if he's using his powers. It's hard to pick which line is worse, but I lean towards 'Halo effect' because he keeps repeating it. I don't understand why Milligan, or maybe it's the editor, thinks he has to break into this incredibly cheesy dialogue all the time... But even with that, I think he and most of the others can be salvaged in the hands of someone who knows the characters and respects them...

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RayeGunn

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#4  Edited By RayeGunn

I have a question for James, next time he's on.

I heard in an interview that Rob Liefeld was told he couldn't use Zealot at one point because there were plans for her in Earth 2, and was told later those plans had changed so he could use her after all. Is this true? If so, could you tell us what you would have done with her? Do you have plans for any other Wildstorm characters in Earth 2? I think I'd kinda like to see that.

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RayeGunn

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#5  Edited By RayeGunn

I hadn't seen you in a while! was wondering where you'd gotten to. But yeah, i pretty much agree with everything in here, right down to the love of Thor. Man, that's a great book.

but yeah, Stormwatch... i keep reading it, and every once in a while there's a glimmer of hope that it may be improving, only to have those hopes crushed yet again. My one hope that remains is that aside from Angie, they can all still be saved, because while they've had some shitty dialogue come out of their mouths, and have been involved with wall banger idiot plots, when you really think about what's actually been DONE with them... it's not much. It's a crying shame, because they're awesome, and is one of the book's faults, but it also means they haven't been DAMAGED, at least not severely, and someone else can still do right by them. Especially Jack Hawksmoor who is still a COMPLETE blank slate. I will give Milligan credit in that he's done better with Apollo, Midnighter and Jenny than Cornell did. Man, did I hate Cornell's Midnighter in particular. Absolutely HATED. but 'better' doesn't necessarily mean 'good'

Angie though... I fear she's been ruined for good. Which i a shame, because she was an AWESOME character.

This issue in particular... the things that bugged me the most was that once back on the Eye, the Projectionist just VANISHED completely. Did they bring her back? did they leave her in Antarcitca? we don't know! It's not that I particularly like her, but it seems a rather large thing to just leave out. Shouldn't she have been the on with the biggest reaction to seeing Harry was still alive? I mean it was HER memories Harry tampered with, so...

And speaking of Harry... while I think he's a good villain, for a man who is supposedly a master of deception, none of his lies have seemed particularly convincing. I could accept it if it was revealed he has some form of telepathy that aids in people accepting his lies, and the fact that he was able to erase Emma's memories seems to suggest he might, but until that's confirmed it just makes all of them look VERY gullible to believe these half baked lies.

And Jack just kinda hanging out in the background popping in with a word from time to time to remind us he's still present... only for Angie to deem him so unimportant that she just ignored him when she did her heel turn.

but she ignored Midnighter too, despite Harry considering him the biggest threat. I think that's just to make sure the plot could advance.

'Halo effect' has been a pet peeve of mine since the first time it appeared. The way the characters, but Apollo is the worst about it, call out their powers is... just bad. It's like they don't trust the readers to be able to figure out what's going on without telling us. And it's not like Apollo's powers are all that complicated, or this gives us any valuable insight into what he's doing.

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RayeGunn

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#6  Edited By RayeGunn

Hm... I think there may be something to this, if only because it's strangely specific for an offhand comment. And there IS that new West character in Flash...

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#7  Edited By RayeGunn

- They aren't called Team 7 because of the number of members. At least, they weren't back in Wildstorm. There were a bunch of teams, they were the 7th. I don't think an in universe reason for the name has been given in DC, though.

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RayeGunn

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#8  Edited By RayeGunn

Interesting. I was wondering if them going to Sentinel Island was a coincidence or what, but they are using the uncontacted tribe in the real North Sentinel Island, which actually does have a group of highly hostile uncontacted indigenous people living on it, one of the last in the world... though the real Sentinelese are black.

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RayeGunn

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#9  Edited By RayeGunn

@jobbernos: I'd say Lobo was a villain. But he's so chaotic, he's a bit hard to pin down.

The thing is, the lines are blurry, the definition can mean different things to different people, and a character can sometimes change over time or from story to story or depending on the writer. But it all basically boils down to the character's intent and worldview. Also, I think it's more complicated than merely hero, anti-hero and villain, I'd add at least anti-villain to the list. And each of those categories has sub-categories.

To me,at least in terms of comic books:

Villain does bad things for the evulz. They are trying to hurt people in one way or another, and don't much care if those people have done bad things themselves, in fact they probably prefer if they are innocents. At the very least, if they are not trying to hurt people, they are acting very selfishly and don't care what happens as long as they get what they want. Joker, Red Skull, etc. Deathstroke in villain mode is often trying to hurt/kill people, often good people, like the Teen Titans, and when he accepts contracts it doesn't matter to him if they've done anything wrong or not; they could be completely innocent, he doesn't care as long as he gets his money. But on the other hand, under certain writers he can sometimes be shown in a more sympathetic light which brings us to....

Anti-Villain is doing bad things, but they are shown more sympathetically. They have motivations you can understand and sympathize with, a code and/or morality attacks that keep them from crossing certain lines, and/or they sometimes do the right thing. Think Catwoman. she's a thief, that's her primary thing, she doesn't really care who she takes things from as long as she gets what she's after. She's breaking the law, so therefore technically a bad guy. BUT she won't kill (at least not intentionally) an sometimes helps out Batman which gives her some heroic qualities. I'd also put Deadpool, the Secret Six, Poison Ivy, (pre-reboot) Mr. Freeze, and Harley Quinn here. (man, Batman has a lot of these) Deathstroke, Dr. Doom, Lex Luthor and Magneto can sometimes be this, but can also fall into full on villainy, depending on when the story was written (they've tended to get more sympathetic as time went on) and depending on the writer.

Anti-Hero has a moral code and/or an end goal that could generally be considered good, but is willing to cross certain lines that other heroes would not to achieve those ends. Punisher is the prime example. He has a goal of cleaning up the streets and putting and end to organized crime and the like, which is a good thing, BUT unlike a true hero, he is perfectly willing to kill the criminals he's fighting. But there is also a tamer version of the anti-hero that's more about image, they often won't kill, but they are still vigilantes, and rely on dark, scary imagry fear and intimidation, and while they won't kill, they are willing to break a few bones. In both cases, they are often very pragmatic and think of things in terms of 'the greater good' and are willing to make sacrifices to achieve that, though just how far they'll go can vary.

Heroes always do the right thing, and are very idealistic. Their primary goal is helping people and they are unwilling to break the law or do anything wrong in any way (aside from the fact that they are often technically vigilantes) They do not kill, not even in self defense (edited to add - robots, monsters, and/or aliens are often exempt from this, but not always), they avoid collateral damage whenever possible, they're selfless and are often willing to sacrifice themselves if it means saving other people. If a choice has to be made between saving an innocent and catching the villain, they will save the innocent. Superman is the definitive example.

and then there are characters that kinda walk the line between two categories, like Batman who is somewhere in between hero and anti-hero. And as with any good character, sometimes characters change over time, and can move from one category to another. Deathstroke in the New 52 seems to have started as an anti-hero with Team 7, then somewhere in that time he started to become more vicious and started descending into villainy. Magneto is the opposite, he started out a straight up villain, but as we learned more about him he first became an anti-villain because we could sympathize with his motivations, he was a well intentioned extremist, and he seems to have softened his views over time, became less extremist. At times he's become an anti-hero and even joined the X-Men. So as I said, the lines are fuzzy, and it's often not very clear cut.

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RayeGunn

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#10  Edited By RayeGunn

Depends on your definition of antihero. It can mean pretty much any character that includes traits that aren't typically 'heroic' under it's broadest definition, but I think most people tend to use it to refer to dark and/or violent characters that are still generally on the side of good. (even if some of the more straight laced heroes would not think so) But either way, there are a lot of them. Classic antiheroes would be characters like Punisher, Spawn, Deadpool, Cable, Red Hood, Catwoman, Grifter, Midnighter (hell, all of the Authority, but he's the anti-est of the bunch)... slightly tamer examples would be Wolverine, Batman... oh i could go on.

Deathstroke... He's been written as both anti-hero and villain, but usually villain. Currently, in Team 7 (technically 5 years in the past) he seems to be on the anti-hero side of things, in his solo series, I stopped reading when Liefeld started, but as of Higgins last issue I would say villain.

*edit - I think the difference between Deadpool and Deathstroke is the types of contracts they accept. They're both working for money, but Slade is much more willing to take jobs that result in the deaths of innocent people.