RayeGunn

@Fantasgasmic said:

Holy freaking 90's! I have a few questions

1. WHAT?!
2. WHY?!?!?!
3. NO, SERIOUSLY, WHAAAAAAT and WHYYYYYYYYYY?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because it sucked. seriously. It objectively sucked. I'm not even talking from a 'but they changed them!' standpoint, even though that is a factor for me, but even if we pretend these are totally new characters, and ignore comparing them to their Wildstorm selves, (even though the WS versions are vastly superior, imo) it was just badly written (to be fair, I think this at least partly had to do with editorial, and it got a new editor right before this, but still) and often badly drawn. They never explored any of their backstories beyond a few small hints here and there, with the exception of the Engineer, and that was just so they could set up her going evil, and then she died. Tell me, how did these versions of Apollo, Midnighter, or Jack get their powers? You can't because it's never been explained, but it clearly can't be the same as it was before. This isn't the Justice League where most of them have solo books to explore their histories, how their powers work etc. it all has to be done in THIS book, and we got next to nothing. The characterization was hugely inconsistent between writers, and sometimes from the same writer, (Midnighter in particular seemed to be written in whatever way was convenient to advance the plot. Jenny also changed dramatically from Cornell to Milligan) if there was any characterization at all. (I'm looking at you, Jack, who may as well have been a cardboard cutout for all the personality you had) The dialogue was consistently atrociously bad (I mean, all the times Apollo called out his powers.... SERIOUSLY? or Jack was another big offender there.) and the plots were directionless, it was going nowhere... and when it did go somewhere it generally took FOREVER. I mean it took TWENTY (including the 0 issue and Valentine's Day issue) issues to work up to a kiss between Apollo and Midnighter? Twenty? for real? (again, I suspect this had to do with constantly changing editorial direction, but still, the end result was the same) You can get by with minimal character development if the plot is strong and engaging, and you can get by with minimal plot if the characters are well rounded and interesting... but it had neither a strong plot nor well rounded/written characters (even though they SHOULD have been, they were in Wildstorm) I don't get why some people are upset, it never got developed beyond a vague idea, the characters barely advanced at all, and the changes made to them in the beginning only pissed off older fans. And a lot of that vague idea is still in place after the re-reboot, they are still a secretive organization with a long history who are protecting the Earth, and Starlin says even the Shadow Lords are still there. But we're starting from a blank slate as far as the characters go, to undo some of the poorly thought out changes to the characters, and bring Angie back. And now we at least have an in-story reason for them having completely different personalities yet again.

I haven't read the other comments yet, so someone may have said this already,but my guess is that 'Bruce' here is actually Clayface.

:D the blond hair on the second cover must have been a coloring error, white hair AND halo! yay! I am glad to have my boys back :)

also, lookit that, classic Wildstorm Stormwatch logo! I didn't have a problem with the new logo, but it still makes me smile.

@End_Boss: that was from one of the Kev miniseries' by Garth Ennis, don't have the page on hand, though.

@captain_oblivious: I don't think that's quite the same thing, in regards to the Weird, because when you reboot a universe, any death could have just never happened, which is what's probably happening here. He's never existed in the DCU until now using the current continuity, so it's not like he's being resurrected in the same way that, say, Phoenix gets resurrected from time to time. Now, the Engineer is a bit different, in that she was alive and then died IN the New 52. She died in issue 18. We saw her body. But there she is on the cover, alive and well. But this seems to be a similar situation to the New 52, just on a smaller scale, where history is being rewritten, and her death never happened in the rewritten history so... it's weird.

Glad this is finally over.... not sure if Starlin will be any better, but at least none of this will be canon in a month.

Edited to add - And they aren't seriously putting forth the idea that Midnighter isn't gay, are they? Even SUGGESTING Midnighter may not be gay is rather problematic. You do not de-gay one of the most iconic and prominent gay characters ever created, you just don't, even if it's to make him bi.

@Zeeguy91 said:

@RayeGunn said:

@grifter78 said:

"Additionally, this series will reveal the first encounter between the two in New 52 history."

Didn't we already see that in the Johns/Lee Justice League opening arc?

That was my first thought too.... I thought Justice League was pretty clear that that was their first meeting.

Oh well, promising creative team, anyway.

Its saying that the series will take place within that 5-year time period between their first meeting in Justice League: Origin and the present of Justice League.

um, no, that's not what it's saying. the in the past part yeah, I get that. But It said it will 'reveal the first encounter' between them, to 'reveal' something means to show something that we haven't seen before, and it's referring specifically to them meeting. Which we've already seen.

@RedheadedAtrocitus said:

Sounds like Jordan is trying to do for Superboy what Lemire is doing for Green Arrow in a way....not that he's trying to go over the origin again but essentially trying to make the start of his run something that you can jump on and not necessarily have to look back to earlier issues to get caught up on. Praise him for that but...hmmm...what are the chances the DC higher ups put him on another title that could be facing the axe in the near future? :/

He's also writing Green Lantern: New Guardians. I really doubt that one's in line for cancellation any time soon ;)

Anyway, after Luther Strode i was an instant fan of Jordan's, so I will check this out.

@grifter78 said:

"Additionally, this series will reveal the first encounter between the two in New 52 history."

Didn't we already see that in the Johns/Lee Justice League opening arc?

That was my first thought too.... I thought Justice League was pretty clear that that was their first meeting.

Oh well, promising creative team, anyway.

Sad to see some of these go, but it's not unexpected, if they're not selling, they're not selling... I think Sword of Sorcery and Team 7 could have been given more time, but realistically I know they probably weren't going to find the readers they needed any time soon. :-/

Here we go, the PERFECT book for Jack:

THE MOVEMENT #1

Written by GAIL SIMONE

Art by FREDDIE WILLIAMS II

Cover by AMANDA CONNER

1:25 Variant cover by CLIFF CHIANG

On sale MAY 1 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T+

Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for more information.

We are faceless. We are limitless. We see all. And we do not forgive.

Who defends the powerless against the GREEDY and the CORRUPT? Who protects the homeless and poverty-stricken from those who would PREY upon them in the DARK OF NIGHT?

When those who are sworn to protect us abuse their power, when toxic government calls down super-human lackeys to force order upon the populace…finally, there is a force, a citizen’s army, to push order BACK. Let those who abuse the system know this as well: We have our OWN super humans now. They are not afraid of your badges or Leagues. And they will not be SILENCED.

We are your neighbors. We are your co-workers. And we are your children.

Heh! yeah, Hickman's Avengers is very Authority-ish. He's never done anything for DC though, that I'm aware of, so i doubt he'd start now, but it would be cool.

And yeah, i guess you're right that Jack worked allright in Word's End. But he had been solidly established as a character in Wildstorm, he's still a blank slate here. I think he needs surroundings that are better suited to his powers until he's better established. We haven't seen him use a fraction of the abilities he displayed in Wildstorm that are city specific yet, like travelling between cities, seeing past events in windows, or even just crazy parkour skills. And his personality is pretty much nonexistent. I mean, we can kinda assume certain things about him have carried over, but we can't be sure, and people new to the character know next to nothing about him, still.

That's been one of the biggest flaws of Stormwatch with all the characters, but I think Jack got hit hardest. It was like, they just assumed everyone knew about them because they were existing characters from Wildstorm, only elaborating on things that had changed whenever it came up. Except they'd been rebooted into the DCU, we know damn well their old origins had to have changed, but we have still yet to learn how in most cases. New readers were left baffled as to who these characters were and what they were all about, and old readers weren't much better off. And it's really strange since at their core many of them aren't all that complex, they could be summed up fairly quickly by having each character have the spotlight for an issue or two, while still advancing the larger plot. They summed up Jenny in the 0 issue, and Midnighter and Apollo have gotten bits and pieces revealed about them, (but still not anything about the origins of their powers or anything) and we saw Angie's origin, so why not for Jack?