Yes. Perhaps we can finally learn why mutants are bad but "normal" superheroes are OK.
I do wonder about that. I hope that if Marvel does get the rights back to X-Men, they will actually explain this a lot clearer than the comics. This is one issue that's always been bugging me about the X-Men franchise.
I always hear this and am a bit puzzled by it.
To me it's always been fairly obvious. True, I may have assumed it rather than having it stated in the comics, but I thought the implication was there.
Humans don't fear non-mutant superheroes because they got their abilities from some source. An accident, an invention, etc. They are single cases; rare (sort of).
Mutants are literally set up as humanities replacements. Eventually humans will be gone and only mutants will be around.
This is, of course, a flawed viewpoint since mutants ARE humans, but panic and irrational fear are all too common traits for humanity. So instead of seeing it as humans evolving, many see it as being replaced.
Just my take on it.
I think the reason why this has been problematic for many fans is because of the fact that both mutants and the characters who got their superpowers from an accident or from an invention can be viewed as being one of the same. It is understandable that humanity would fear the mutant population because they are considered the next step in evolution and humanity fears that, but most of the time, the X-Men look like any other human being, which is the same case for the other superpowered beings who are not mutants. Sometimes, it would be impossible for humanity to really tell the difference between the mutants and the super powered beings unless they outright told them that they are mutants or they got their powers from an accident since they all look like human beings themselves. The only way that humanity would tell the difference is if they come across a being who has a different appearance like Nightcrawler, but the same could be said about the Thing too, except that he's apart of the Fantastic Four, so he is a bit more accepted due to his associations to the Fantastic Four.
Sometimes, it would be impossible for humanity to really tell the difference between the mutants and the super powered beings unless they outright told them that they are mutants or they got their powers from an accident since they all look like human beings themselves.
Yeah, and this IS one point that I'll agree the comics have kinda fudged on. It HAS been brought up, but probably not as much as it should have. Examples being; there were a few times were part of the negative reaction to Spiderman was partly due to speculation that he might be a mutant. I don't remember much ever coming of it, but it was mentioned.
Also, they actually addressed the Fantastic Four thing by making it all a plan of Reed's. He was afraid that they'd be feared for their powers and that's the reason he formed the Fantastic Four in the first place. He wanted to place them in the limelight, make them known and accessible so that the public wouldn't be scared of them.
Of course, that's only a couple examples and it hasn't come up in the comics nearly as much as it should, but I've always just relegated it to the same area as the bathroom thing. As in, you almost never see any superhero taking a toilet break, but you know they must do so at some point.
Sometimes, it would be impossible for humanity to really tell the difference between the mutants and the super powered beings unless they outright told them that they are mutants or they got their powers from an accident since they all look like human beings themselves.
Yeah, and this IS one point that I'll agree the comics have kinda fudged on. It HAS been brought up, but probably not as much as it should have. Examples being; there were a few times were part of the negative reaction to Spiderman was partly due to speculation that he might be a mutant. I don't remember much ever coming of it, but it was mentioned.
Also, they actually addressed the Fantastic Four thing by making it all a plan of Reed's. He was afraid that they'd be feared for their powers and that's the reason he formed the Fantastic Four in the first place. He wanted to place them in the limelight, make them known and accessible so that the public wouldn't be scared of them.
Of course, that's only a couple examples and it hasn't come up in the comics nearly as much as it should, but I've always just relegated it to the same area as the bathroom thing. As in, you almost never see any superhero taking a toilet break, but you know they must do so at some point.
I definitely agree with all this! I just wish that the comics would actually approach this subject a bit more, especially if they want the X-Men to remain in the same universe as the Avengers and the Fantastic Four. I understand that the X-Men are representing the community that is being oppressed, but if they are being compared to the likes of Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four and they are not prosecuted for the same reasons, then this can become a moot point very soon.
@thecowman: Just a little update if you're interested! Sony is thinking of selling the rights to Spider-man in return for 20% of the profits............all Marvel has to do is buy him back now!
@thecowman: Just a little update if you're interested! Sony is thinking of selling the rights to Spider-man in return for 20% of the profits............all Marvel has to do is buy him back now!
I think that Spider-Man is fine where he is for now. The only flop Sony's made with him, in my opinion, was Spider-Man 3, and that was only because of what they did with Venom.
I say yes to the Fantastic Four. Thing vs Hulk would be awesome, and it would help with the cosmic stuff. Plus, they come with Silver Surfer and Galactus, another good part of the cosmic side of the universe.
As for the X-Men, I say wait until after Days of Future Past. If it fixes all the continuity errors without becoming too much of a mess itself, I say they deserve to keep it. Otherwise, I say I'd rather watch a very few great X-Men films than a lot of terrible ones.
I think that Spider-Man is fine where he is for now. The only flop Sony's made with him, in my opinion, was Spider-Man 3, and that was only because of what they did with Venom.
I say yes to the Fantastic Four. Thing vs Hulk would be awesome, and it would help with the cosmic stuff. Plus, they come with Silver Surfer and Galactus, another good part of the cosmic side of the universe.
As for the X-Men, I say wait until after Days of Future Past. If it fixes all the continuity errors without becoming too much of a mess itself, I say they deserve to keep it. Otherwise, I say I'd rather watch a very few great X-Men films than a lot of terrible ones.
I definitely would like to see Silver Surfer and Galactus come in the Marvel Universe, especially since Marvel is planning on putting out some cosmic films. What better way to attach Galactus and Silver Surfer to the Cosmic Universe since they are cosmic beings themselves?
@rabbitearsblog: third movie was outright awful yes, mainly because Sony forced Raimi to do things with the film he didn't want to. The so called "reboot" wasn't spectacular either, no ambition, no direction.. just a bunch of Sony dudes in suits churning out a Spidey movie so that they wouldn't lose rights to it.
Give it back to Marvel so that they can put it in the hands of someone who actually cares about the franchise
third movie was outright awful yes, mainly because Sony forced Raimi to do things with the film he didn't want to. The so called "reboot" wasn't spectacular either, no ambition, no direction.. just a bunch of Sony dudes in suits churning out a Spidey movie so that they wouldn't lose rights to it.
Give it back to Marvel so that they can put it in the hands of someone who actually cares about the franchise
I definitely would to see what Joss Whedon or other directors would do for Spider-Man and the X-Men!
I don't care about the FF so not for them per se, only for the associated characters rights like Galactus or Silver Surfer.
About the X-men i think it would be a mess if they put together X-Men and Avengers, but we could have Wolverine on the Avengers and they could say Wanda and Pietro are Mutants in the next movie so i don't really know
Sony is redeeming themselves with the Amazing Spider-man movies, so they should keep the rights. They should work up a contract allowing for crossovers though. Fox is rebooting FF, so I won't pass judgement just yet. Fox's X-movies are a mess though, and I want Marvel to have that license back.
I say FF needs to be in Disney's hands. As much as it hurts me to say this, Spidey is rather fine where he is right now. I'm indifferent to the X Men films.
I say FF needs to be in Disney's hands. As much as it hurts me to say this, Spidey is rather fine where he is right now. I'm indifferent to the X Men films.
yup, if any marvel team is Disney like, its them.cough cough Incredibles-
Anyway There's alotta good convo circulating in this thread about X-men and AVengers not working in the same universe. I agree that they don't for the reasons already mentioned but also,both teams are uber powered. Why would Shield And the Avengers sit back while the X-men take on Planetary threats like Apocalypse, Mastermold, Phoenix, Magneto etc? Or Vice Versa? Like the X-men are close enough and skilled enough to wipe out the Chitauri, you'd think they'd sit it out while the Avengers "figure it out"? The MCU Earth simply isn't big enough for the two.
I say FF needs to be in Disney's hands. As much as it hurts me to say this, Spidey is rather fine where he is right now. I'm indifferent to the X Men films.
yup, if any marvel team is Disney like, its them.cough cough Incredibles-
Anyway There's alotta good convo circulating in this thread about X-men and AVengers not working in the same universe. I agree that they don't for the reasons already mentioned but also,both teams are uber powered. Why would Shield And the Avengers sit back while the X-men take on Planetary threats like Apocalypse, Mastermold, Phoenix, Magneto etc? Or Vice Versa?
Like the X-men are close enough and skilled enough to wipe out the Chitauri, you'd think they'd sit it out while the Avengers "figure it out"?
The MCU Earth simply isn't big enough for the two.
I agree with this. I think the main problem with the Avengers and the X-Men existing in the same movie universe is that they both have very powerful team members and viewers would be wondering about which one of these heroes is going to fight the big bad for that movie or even worse, since they would be in the same universe, viewers would be wondering why the X-Men didn't help out when the Avengers were fighting the Chitauri or why the Avengers didn't help out when the X-Men were fighting Apocalypse.
I'm going against a bunch of people here, but i have to say that i'd really like to see FF and Spider-man back to Marvel. Avengers just aren't the same without Dr. Richards and Spider-man. As much as i like X-Men (i really do), X-Men should return too, but i'm curious on how Marcel is going to use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on second Avengers movie.
I know the whole cinema Marvel Universe have been built on a story without these characters, but each one is very important to the way that Avengers became so popular.
I actually like that Spiderman is on his own and X-men should always be its own universe. Face it if Disney had all of the rights to the Marvel characters, they would be like WB/DC they would push Spiderman, Hulk and X-men out first since people know those characters like WB/DC pushes Batman and Superman a lot for better or worst. Whilst I'm sure they want the rights back, their fine where they are despite your hate for that corporation/studio who makes those movies. And hey Spiderman 2 is still Marvel's answer to Donner's Superman and that's a good thing.
I'm going against a bunch of people here, but i have to say that i'd really like to see FF and Spider-man back to Marvel. Avengers just aren't the same without Dr. Richards and Spider-man. As much as i like X-Men (i really do), X-Men should return too, but i'm curious on how Marcel is going to use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver on second Avengers movie.
I know the whole cinema Marvel Universe have been built on a story without these characters, but each one is very important to the way that Avengers became so popular.
How about no. Fantastic Four I want back though the X-men and Spider-Man are better off were they are.
Yes, to all. Will it happen probably not. For now they should focus on FF and if they're lucky Spider-man could be 8 years down the line if Sony's spider-man movie a year thing is true. X-Men will probably never happen.
Also they need to get back Namor and his ilk still shocked they didn't have his rights back yet or that Universal even had them.
I actually like that Spiderman is on his own and X-men should always be its own universe. Face it if Disney had all of the rights to the Marvel characters, they would be like WB/DC they would push Spiderman, Hulk and X-men out first since people know those characters like WB/DC pushes Batman and Superman a lot for better or worst. Whilst I'm sure they want the rights back, their fine where they are despite your hate for that corporation/studio who makes those movies. And hey Spiderman 2 is still Marvel's answer to Donner's Superman and that's a good thing.
I agree that the X-Men are probably better off in their own universe since they have way too many characters as it is and I'm not sure how Marvel/Disney would handle the mutant phenomenon in their universe.
Sony can hold Spider-Man and Fox can hold X-Men...for a good while at least.
The Fantastic Four would be better off in the hands of Disney/Marvel Studios, along with their extensive supporting characters (many cosmic ties are within the FF's universe) and would play great in the Avengers/Fantastic Four world.
Unfortunately, they will stay with Fox in their X-Men shared (dominant) universe, although they are better off with Disney.
Disney would be able to make the FF a hot brand and make them popular again, but it looks like we will have to wait.
FF definitely yes. Have you all heard about the casting and plot (rumor)? Black human torch, Invisible GIRL?! and Dr. Doom is a woman?! (although it's rumor, but still worried).
I'd like to have Spider-Man back because he's just a solo character accompanied by various other heroes and villains. He can fit in a shared Universe really neatly. X-Men and FF, though I'd love to have back at Marvel, can survive on their own being that they're both teams + adding 2 more teams to the Avengers Universe might make it convoluted and too overcrowded.
no because marvel is already succeeding without them. hopefully im right and when gotg is there next one billion dollar box office draw marvel has a huge roster of charachters to utilize for the cosmic setting. they dont need spiderman ff or xmen really.
they have ironman wich is a billion dollar franchise
they have avengers wich is another billion dollar franchise
from early reports captain america ws seems like another.
i dont even know how much fox values xmen to what it be worth same with sony in regards to spiderman
I'd like to have Spider-Man back because he's just a solo character accompanied by various other heroes and villains. He can fit in a shared Universe really neatly. X-Men and FF, though I'd love to have back at Marvel, can survive on their own being that they're both teams + adding 2 more teams to the Avengers Universe might make it convoluted and too overcrowded.
I definitely wouldn't mind having Spider-Man back at Marvel since his personality fits better in the Marvel Universe (at least in terms of having a fun loving personality, but who knows, Marvel might get darker in tone down the line).
I'd like to have Spider-Man back because he's just a solo character accompanied by various other heroes and villains. He can fit in a shared Universe really neatly. X-Men and FF, though I'd love to have back at Marvel, can survive on their own being that they're both teams + adding 2 more teams to the Avengers Universe might make it convoluted and too overcrowded.
I definitely wouldn't mind having Spider-Man back at Marvel since his personality fits better in the Marvel Universe (at least in terms of having a fun loving personality, but who knows, Marvel might get darker in tone down the line).
It's very possible Marvel might get darker down the line but I doubt it. They've found a successful niche with their current style and changing that might damage the brand. I wouldn't be surprised if they maybe one movie more dark and serious just to test it out but I believe Marvel is trying to (and succeeded) win over the audience with comedy and light heartedness since DC has gone down the path of "everything needs to be like the 90's!"
I wonder if they have to? I think Disney can just look for loopholes in the contract as they must exist, The Wolverine had Viper in, so Marvel could use the same argument to have Ororo Monroe in a Blackpanther film, as long as they don't refer to her as a mutant or an Xman, they can have Cain Marko in a Dr Strange movie, as long as they don't mention his relationship to professor x or his affiliation to mutants, Cable, Mystique, and a whole host of characters may exist in this grey area, where Fox is limited and Marvel can draw from those limitations.
I don't think Marvel will bother getting the rights back, if they can pull the rug from under the carpet using lawyers...
I wonder if they have to? I think Disney can just look for loopholes in the contract as they must exist, The Wolverine had Viper in, so Marvel could use the same argument to have Ororo Monroe in a Blackpanther film, as long as they don't refer to her as a mutant or an Xman, they can have Cain Marko in a Dr Strange movie, as long as they don't mention his relationship to professor x or his affiliation to mutants, Cable, Mystique, and a whole host of characters may exist in this grey area, where Fox is limited and Marvel can draw from those limitations.
I don't think Marvel will bother getting the rights back, if they can pull the rug from under the carpet using lawyers...
I think Marvel could do this, but then they would be changing the history of the characters and that wouldn't go over too well for the fans.
@rabbitearsblog: indeed, but only in the same way Fox has to change a characters origin and history, be it their version of Juggernaut, Psylocke or Viper... They keep ruining characters history's. Now Quicksilver and Wander get half an origin in DofP and half in Avengers AoU.
Itis sad, but its already happened and is happening... It's all gone a bit weird... If only Disney had both Marvel back in 1990 lol
@flameboy298: But what for, The X-men have too large a mythos that conflicts with the MCU. X-men works better isolated where they can focus their story solely on mutants vs humans and keep playing the message of discrimination since thats their strength. They would be out of place in the MCU.
Besides MCU isn't always a 100% in adaptions Mandarin and Malakith.
@tigerkaya: Yeah well its either that or X-men movies will continue to end up where only one character develops and all the other supporting characters are just there to be there.
@flameboy298: Well thats their problem Fox has them and too many of the general audience loves the X-men. Fantastic Four has good chance of being bought back though.
@flameboy298: Well thats their problem Fox has them and too many of the general audience loves the X-men. Fantastic Four has good chance of being bought back though.
YES. Just. . . .yes. Well, at least yes to two of them. This may sound kinda strange, but I'm actually hoping TF4 bombs so Fox realizes they can't profit off these characters and Marvel gets them back, and I'm hoping TASM2 is the least successful Spider-Man movie yet (it probably will be, since TASM1 was the lowest-grossing) so Sony realizes the only way to save their franchise is teaming with Marvel to put Spidey in the MCU to be alongside his allies (Sony can keep the rights, they just need to let Marvel use the character). X-Men, on the other hand, I don't want back because they should be in their own universe. That means they'd still be at Fox, which is why I'm hoping DOFP bombs (or at least under performs) so Fox will realize they'll need to reboot the franchise completely with a 100% new cast and crew so we can hopefully get the movies we've always wanted. I still want Deadpool back at Marvel, though, since he's not truly an X-Men character and he could finally be done justice at Marvel.
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