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Posted by SteveRogers

Hulk

Posted by venomoushatred1001

Hulk.

Edited by SlimJ87D

New Superman still has the speed advantage...

Don't forget that the Superman you guys are reading takes place while he is still developing his powers. We haven't even seen current Superman, only the past Superman when the new Justice League is barely forming. This Superman was the one that easily smashed through GL's constructs and managed to tag Barry by luck or surprise he has some pretty amazing speed feats already. Given if Barry took Superman more seriously he wouldn't have gotten tagged like so.

Posted by eatmore_payless

Dude Superman really did plan on doing it, its not just luck, it's plain strategy

Posted by Saren

Hulk can't touch Supes.

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Posted by God_Spawn

I think it takes more than luck to flick someone down a city street with your finger.

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Posted by texasdeathmatch

Maybe its the lack of sleep or that I'm still at work, buuuut this new 52 seems kinda interesting...

Posted by ssejllenrad

Superman from Superman series and JLA has no strength cap yet so we can't really say that it would be his speed that would win him this fight. But also noteworthy is that current Hulk is at his strongest (I think) being Worldbreaker again and showing feats even better than WBH oft he WWH story arc.

Posted by NX

superman
Posted by HolySerpent

Superman is BEAST . he wins hands down

Posted by kratonians090

@SlimJ87D: yeah right...I'm sure superman will get tired killing the Hulk. have you watch the Hulk lately?, I bet superman can't even carry the Mjolnir

Posted by kratonians090

Supes is at his highest peak from the begining since he does need recharge from the sun. A long drag out battle will eventually weaken supes of his energy but at that time while Supes is wiping Hulk around he is only getting madder & stonger. As we all know Hulk can and will adabt to his foes and evironment so he may act like he got rocks up in his head but its a matter of time before he polishes'em.

Hulk could pull it off; his had allot more training fighting brusiers than Supes.

Posted by venomoushatred1001

@SlimJ87D: Hulk would eventually tag him and then lights out. Don't forget he is currently World Breaker Hulk.

Posted by Saren

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@SlimJ87D: Hulk would eventually tag him and then lights out. Don't forget he is currently World Breaker Hulk.

Is he still Worldbreaker post Fear Itself? I haven't read this week's issue yet.

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Posted by venomoushatred1001

@CitizenBane said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@SlimJ87D: Hulk would eventually tag him and then lights out. Don't forget he is currently World Breaker Hulk.

Is he still Worldbreaker post Fear Itself? I haven't read this week's issue yet.

We can assume he is, though I'm not totally sure.

Posted by Saren

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@SlimJ87D: Hulk would eventually tag him and then lights out. Don't forget he is currently World Breaker Hulk.

Is he still Worldbreaker post Fear Itself? I haven't read this week's issue yet.

We can assume he is, though I'm not totally sure.

From what I can see, he didn't look like Worldbreaker even during Fear Itself.

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Posted by Morpheus_
Based on Fear Itself # 7 and Incredible Hulk # 1 it's tough to say what he is anymore, but whatever he is, it's not the Worldbreaker.
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Posted by venomoushatred1001

@CitizenBane said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@CitizenBane said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@SlimJ87D: Hulk would eventually tag him and then lights out. Don't forget he is currently World Breaker Hulk.

Is he still Worldbreaker post Fear Itself? I haven't read this week's issue yet.

We can assume he is, though I'm not totally sure.

From what I can see, he didn't look like Worldbreaker even during Fear Itself.

I don't know, I could be wrong.

Edited by SlimJ87D

@kratonians090: *Looks at # of post... ignored*

@venomoushatred1001: @Morpheus_: @CitizenBane:

How come you guys are categorizing WWH (aka the Green Scar Hulk) and WBH as separate people... I see this mistake a lot. All WBH is is WWH Angry that's it. Psychologically and mentally they were the same person, just one was angry at that moment.

WWH, Savage Hulk, Gray Hulk and any other incarnations show key differences mentally and physically. The most important part is the mental part.

@eatmore_payless:

Barry didn't even want to come and fight. He came in clearly not wanting to hurt Superman while Superman was pretty much blood lusted and not listening to reason. Think about it, that whole time Barry was dodging all of Supes blows, he could have easily returned blows and pummeled him.

Posted by Morpheus_
@SlimJ87D said:

 @Morpheus_

How come you guys are categorizing WWH and WBH as separate people... I see this mistake a lot. All WBH is is WWH Angry that's it. Psychologically and mentally they were the same person, just one was angry at that moment.

WWH, Savage Hulk, Gray Hulk and any other incarnations show key differences mentally and physically. The most important part is the mental part.

No mistake. He quite clearly possesses elevated levels of power when he is at that state in comparison to the Green Scar or plain old WWH, so it makes great sense to differentiate them.
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Posted by isaac_clarke

52 Supes is going to need some better striking power feats other than effortlessly pounding away through Hal's constructs. If I recall it used to take Superman all his pounding power to break them, so either he got much stronger or Lanterns got much weaker. I'm not sold, despite being able to bullrush the Hulk, that he can harm him just yet.

Edited by venomoushatred1001

@SlimJ87D said:

@venomoushatred1001:

How come you guys are categorizing WWH (aka the Green Scar Hulk) and WBH as separate people... I see this mistake a lot. All WBH is is WWH Angry that's it. Psychologically and mentally they were the same person, just one was angry at that moment.

WWH, Savage Hulk, Gray Hulk and any other incarnations show key differences mentally and physically. The most important part is the mental part.

WBH is much stronger than WWH and has better feats.

Supes needs better feats before I can agree he is strong enough to even hurt Hulk yet.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@Morpheus_: But it's not like Mindless Hulk where a psychic has to manipulate his mind.

I see WBH as a FEAT that WWH performs when angered.

This is what I'm trying to understand. Are you guys calling out WBH as his own Hulk persona like Joe Fixit and Savage Hulk? Or are you guys just saying WBH to state the levels that WWH is at?

Because if it's the latter, then anytime WWH is used he has potential to WBH from extreme anger and frustration. I think it's fair to state in the OP if WWH has access to his WBH state of anger. But I don't think they need to be classified as separate personas of Hulk.

Posted by Boobster

World Breaker is stronger because he is not holding back. Don't know about the current Hulk, though.

Posted by TheGoldenOne
@Morpheus_ said:
Based on Fear Itself # 7 and Incredible Hulk # 1 it's tough to say what he is anymore, but whatever he is, it's not the Worldbreaker.
That's true.
Posted by kratonians090

LIMITLESS says it all. If Superman has strength as maybe 3 Hulks, thats ok BUT, Hulk’s strenght continues to grow and it is not stopping, EVER, unlike Superman’s. Superman may be strong but he has got a limit. Now ppl could say ok, Hulk can get stronger than Superman. But just beacuse the Hulk has limitless strength that can far outmatch Superman’s dont assume that Hulk is automatically the winner. Superman has got many other strenghths and ways to get around the hulk. It could be hard because everything he would throw at him would be pointless if hulk is only getting stronger and stronger. if you have LIMITLESS strength bound to Hulk, then you MUST acknowledge that Hulk CAN get stronger than Superman, waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy stronger depending on how angry he gets. The longer the fight, the more rage. Not as soon as the fight starts of course.

Posted by Saren

@kratonians090 said:

LIMITLESS says it all. If Superman has strength as maybe 3 Hulks, thats ok BUT, Hulk’s strenght continues to grow and it is not stopping, EVER, unlike Superman’s. Superman may be strong but he has got a limit. Now ppl could say ok, Hulk can get stronger than Superman. But just beacuse the Hulk has limitless strength that can far outmatch Superman’s dont assume that Hulk is automatically the winner. Superman has got many other strenghths and ways to get around the hulk. It could be hard because everything he would throw at him would be pointless if hulk is only getting stronger and stronger. if you have LIMITLESS strength bound to Hulk, then you MUST acknowledge that Hulk CAN get stronger than Superman, waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy stronger depending on how angry he gets. The longer the fight, the more rage. Not as soon as the fight starts of course.

Hulk does not have limitless strength. And pre-FP Superman was still more powerful than Worldbreaker Hulk.

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Posted by demifiend
@quiksilver70777: welcome to the vine bieber. 
supes wins
Edited by ShiZZmAhh

@SlimJ87D said:

New Superman still has the speed advantage...

Don't forget that the Superman you guys are reading takes place while he is still developing his powers. We haven't even seen current Superman, only the past Superman when the new Justice League is barely forming. This Superman was the one that easily smashed through GL's constructs and managed to tag Barry by luck or surprise he has some pretty amazing speed feats already. Given if Barry took Superman more seriously he wouldn't have gotten tagged like so.

i'm pretty sure current superman is george perez's superman which we see in superman #1 and #2 (not to be mistaken with action comics superman or justice league supes). however, it's still early in that series and we've only seen supes taking out a couple random monsters (which i wouldn't put on hulks level).

gotta disagree with your second point also, supes eyes and facial expression indicate that he was anticipating flash's next move which allowed him to land the finger flik from hell. it was nice seeing supes tooling batman, GL and flash in that issue, sorta reminded me of the way majestic does his thing.

Posted by TifaLockhart

@SlimJ87D: It's for clarity of what powerlevel they're currently operating on in the thread.

For instance, Pre-Crisis Darkseid is Post-Crisis Darkseid, but saying Post-Crisis gives a better reference point.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@ShiZZmAhh said:

@SlimJ87D said:

New Superman still has the speed advantage...

Don't forget that the Superman you guys are reading takes place while he is still developing his powers. We haven't even seen current Superman, only the past Superman when the new Justice League is barely forming. This Superman was the one that easily smashed through GL's constructs and managed to tag Barry by luck or surprise he has some pretty amazing speed feats already. Given if Barry took Superman more seriously he wouldn't have gotten tagged like so.

i'm pretty sure current superman is george perez's superman which we see in superman #1 and #2 (not to be mistaken with action comics superman or justice league supes). however, it's still early in that series and we've only seen supes taking out a couple random monsters (which i wouldn't put on hulks level).

gotta disagree with your second point also, supes eyes and facial expression indicate that he was anticipating flash's next move which allowed him to land the finger flik from hell. it was nice seeing supes tooling batman, GL and flash in that issue, sorta reminded me of the way majestic does his thing.

Please read what I wrote here, as it elaborates on what I really meant.

Barry didn't even want to come and fight. He came in clearly not wanting to hurt Superman while Superman was pretty much blood lusted and not listening to reason. Think about it, that whole time Barry was dodging all of Supes blows, he could have easily returned blows and pummeled him.

it is very clear that Barry is not trying to harm Superman. Read the dialogue please and don't misinterpret what happen. Barry is trying to talk it out. This is equivalent to a boxer throwing punches at you while you're trying to just dodge and talk to him.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@SlimJ87D: It's for clarity of what powerlevel they're currently operating on in the thread.

For instance, Pre-Crisis Darkseid is Post-Crisis Darkseid, but saying Post-Crisis gives a better reference point.

That is a LOT different from what I am talking about. You are talking about character retcon which totally different personas almost.

WBH = WWH Engraged

Post-Crisis Darkseid = Pre-Crisis Darkseid + Retcon

WWH =/= Savage Hulk =/= Gray Hulk =/= Maestro Hulk

But some people say: WWH =/= Savage Hulk =/= Gray Hulk =/= Maestro Hulk =/= WBH which I disagree with.

WWH and WBH are still the same character. In the end of WWH, he didn't change into another Hulk to become WBH, he was just really pissed. Get me?

Posted by ShiZZmAhh

@SlimJ87D said:

@ShiZZmAhh said:

@SlimJ87D said:

New Superman still has the speed advantage...

Don't forget that the Superman you guys are reading takes place while he is still developing his powers. We haven't even seen current Superman, only the past Superman when the new Justice League is barely forming. This Superman was the one that easily smashed through GL's constructs and managed to tag Barry by luck or surprise he has some pretty amazing speed feats already. Given if Barry took Superman more seriously he wouldn't have gotten tagged like so.

i'm pretty sure current superman is george perez's superman which we see in superman #1 and #2 (not to be mistaken with action comics superman or justice league supes). however, it's still early in that series and we've only seen supes taking out a couple random monsters (which i wouldn't put on hulks level).

gotta disagree with your second point also, supes eyes and facial expression indicate that he was anticipating flash's next move which allowed him to land the finger flik from hell. it was nice seeing supes tooling batman, GL and flash in that issue, sorta reminded me of the way majestic does his thing.

Please read what I wrote here, as it elaborates on what I really meant.

Barry didn't even want to come and fight. He came in clearly not wanting to hurt Superman while Superman was pretty much blood lusted and not listening to reason. Think about it, that whole time Barry was dodging all of Supes blows, he could have easily returned blows and pummeled him.

it is very clear that Barry is not trying to harm Superman. Read the dialogue please and don't misinterpret what happen. Barry is trying to talk it out. This is equivalent to a boxer throwing punches at you while you're trying to just dodge and talk to him.

i understand what you wrote and i also understand the dialogue in the issue itself. i never said flash was going all out on supes or was trying to outright destroy him. the point is, it's clear that barry thought he was untouchable and was underestimating superman's reaction time. you said, "superman managed to tag barry by luck or suprise." it was surprising for flash in the sense that he couldn't believe he got tagged but he clearly was not trying to get hit and superman's eyes (looking toward his shoulder) indicate that he was preparing for flash to step toward/around his shoulder area.

Posted by Static Shock

@kratonians090: A long, dragged out battle under a yellow sun isn't going to weaken Superman. As long as he's under a yellow sun, he will constantly take in energy.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@ShiZZmAhh: Okay, so I don't see what you are disagreeing with me about. I elaborated that I didn't mean he got a lucky hit but more of the fact he was lucky Flash wasn't blood lusted.

Posted by TifaLockhart

@SlimJ87D: I get you. I agree that WWBH is just an angrier WWH. But Darkseid -technically- wasn't retconned by COIE. It's just that the writers write him dumbed down.

Posted by ShiZZmAhh

@SlimJ87D: the luck thing was it. lol and i agree with you on the bloodlusted thing. bloodlusted flash is like the new jesus, he would merc the justice league.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: You got any proof that he was retcon? I mean the guy was taking punches from SA Superman. I don't think a special bullet from batman should have done that.

Posted by Saren

@SlimJ87D said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: You got any proof that he was retcon? I mean the guy was taking punches from SA Superman. I don't think a special bullet from batman should have done that.

A special bullet from Batman wouldn't have done that. It did so because prior to Final Crisis, Darkseid had been beaten nearly to death by Orion and was using Dan Turpin's body as a host for his essence.

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Posted by TifaLockhart

@SlimJ87D: He orchestrated events that lead to the Post-Crisis Parasite's creation from his memories of the Pre-Crisis Parasite. Orion has referenced Pre-Crisis. The Fourth World exists in a separate dimension from DC proper and IIRC was cloaked from the Anti-Monitor.

Also, he never fought Pre-Crisis Superman (the closest was BFR'ing Pre-Crisis Superboy with some power from Highfather's ghost) and the bullet Batman shot Darkseid with was Radion - essentially Kryptonite to New gods. And Super Powers isn't canon.

Posted by Nefarious

Superman wins.

Posted by SlimJ87D

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: I see, interesting. Thanks for the lesson on Darkseid. I don't know too much about him. Frankly, I'm still not interested haha. but thanks.

Thanks to you too Citizenbane.

Posted by CapitolPunishment

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: @SlimJ87D: I'm not sure why everyone says Batman killed him. He shot him with the radion bullet that killed Orion and just injured his physical body. After the bullet he took I direct hit from the black racer (who is the new gods incarnation of death itself) and then was finished off by that silly "old god" machine that was created by the old gods eons ago which played some kind of music when Superman was talking/singing into it. All that to kill off his physical body. Yet people keep with the whole "Batman killed Darksied with a gun lol"..

Posted by TifaLockhart

Ehh, I prefer personally not to try to understand Morrison's ideas (I love his work, but it goes over my head).

And Slim, I'm agreeing with you that Hulk wins. I just offered my theory as to why people say WBH as opposed to WWH.

Posted by mcbean

@HolySerpent: Superman is not a beast Shazam is magic and he can beat sup and how many times did Batman beat Sup sorry again not a beast .

Posted by mcbean

HULK

Posted by TifaLockhart

@mcbean: I'd still say pre-reboot he's a beast.

Posted by YOUDONTKNOWWHOIAM

superman stomps. I dont care what version of hulk superman wins.
Posted by Saren

@mcbean said:

@HolySerpent: Superman is not a beast Shazam is magic and he can beat sup and how many times did Batman beat Sup sorry again not a beast .

Shazam is one of the most powerful beings in DC, that's like arguing Hulk is weak because Dormammu would beat him up.

How many times has Batman beaten up Superman? Zero times.

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Posted by TifaLockhart

@CitizenBane: I'm The Last Son of Czarnia and I approve this post.

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