Sin's Past

Just to be clear...i wanted to say that a long time ago.

To ALL of you bitching about Sin's Past.To all of you who are "insulted" by the storyline.

For starters,if you are 15-30 yrs old,just......go back the way you came,will ya?.....

Gwen is a character who died several decades ago,and you were born when she was gone several decades ago,too.......you cant be mad or not pleaed about this!!....i didnt like the fact Norman did this with Gwen,not because of Gwen,but because of Peter and his pain....i was sharing Peter's pain.

If you read Spider-Man when Gwen was alive,you'd realise she was a typical superhero girlfriend.Boring to the bone.She was calling Peter and if he was telling that he cant go out she would start crying!.....this is typical 60's superhero girlfriend!!!!....to be fair we would not know how she would've been written nowadays.I give you that.But we have this history.We must respect history,but not having it as a 100% standard!....i mean,in 2003 we read that Felicia started doing what she was doing,because a dude,raped her in college!.....after 20 years,we "learned" why the Black Cat was stealing!.....you think that it's bad?....at first,yeah,me too,but then she said that she was prepared to never trust another man,and Spider-Man got her out of this "cage" by showing that true men exist!...that gave another escense to the character both of Felicia AND Peter!...

I cant say anything to people who read Spider-Man while Gwen was alive.NOTHING.Cause they lived her.And probably thought of her as a family.

For me Peter was always an older brother,and Mary Jane was his wife,so like a very very close sister-like character to me also.......if Mary Jane and Norman would have done such a thing,i would gladly read an issue with Peter cutting Osborn's junk off.You know why?....cause MJ was Peter's companion all my life,and i cant imagine Peter with anyone else!!.....and i respect people who were burning their issues of ASM #121 because we, who are bitching and whining about Superior now,in comparison with their tragedy,are some dirty little rats!!.....Imagine someone killed MJ that way,without they being married or even knowing that Peter is Spider-Man!!

All i'm trying to say is that we cant feel for characters that we didnt know for real the time they existed.........you can feel fro Peter when he got extra arms,or when he lost MJ to the plain crash or when he lost May,OR WHEN GWEN DIED,even if you didnt live when these stuff happened!!!!....why?....because it's Peter the main character of the book!!....he is and he will always be!!....and our grandsons will feel for Peter when they read Superior cause it's Peter who got the trouble....!!.....

I wasnt sad,never,about uncle Ben..or his loss,or whatever.When i read Ultimate,where you get to know him,and he dies issue 6-7(i dont remember) you really understand the whole "great power great responsibillity" lesson....because you're SAD that a character you LIKED for 6 months is dead!!....

Hope i made myself clear enough.

22 Comments
22 Comments
Edited by Ninjablade09

Starting a blog I see, nice. As much as I hate Sins Past I couldn't give a damn about it anymore. While it grosses the hell out me, it's whatever. And I believe Ult Ben died at the end of issue 5. And I didn't know Felicia started stealing because she was raped in college. Wow, she better watch out cause SpOck may want to rock her world.

Posted by PunyParker

@ninjablade09: No,i just wanted to post that opinion,and it was very long.I decided to post it on the "blog" section of my profile :)

I dont hate Sin's Past,cause it shows how evil Norman is and that he will do everything to hurt Peter!!....that's the general idea of the story!......and because of what i wrote above...

"Spider-Man & Black Cat:The Evil THat Men Do." mini-series.

Kevin Smith and Terry Dodson.

Excellent mini-series....the best interaction between Pete and Felicia you can find.

Posted by superior_slot

I don't hate the core concept of Sins Past. The timeline is wonky, but yeah, it's superhero books you can forgive that sort of thing. It's the sloppy resolution and bad villains that annoy me, namely the Goblin Twins, that's what really makes it a terrible story, not that it's sacrilege against Gwen Stacy.

Edited by PunyParker

I don't hate the core concept of Sins Past. The timeline is wonky, but yeah, it's superhero books you can forgive that sort of thing. It's the sloppy resolution and bad villains that annoy me, namely the Goblin Twins, that's what really makes it a terrible story, not that it's sacrilege against Gwen Stacy.

On that we agree.

Edited by Baron_BJ

Because this was listed as a blog post I'm going to get all anal retentive up in this house. If you're going to blog then please, for the love of god, learn how punctuation works. I'll even give you a run down on some of the basics that you don't seem to understand, don't worry, the first time is free:

1.After you place a period, or any other form of punctuation in your sentence, you should place a space after it if you're going to continue on from it. Here's an example:

I like dogs.I don't like cats. - WRONG

I like dogs. I don't like cats. - CORRECT

I love dogs!I don't care for cats. - WRONG

I love dogs! I don't care for cats. - CORRECT

2. Don't abuse exclamation points. Using them often devalues them and they're annoying to read, for example in journalism there's an unofficial rule that says you should only use an exclamation point once every 10,000 words, I say this as a journalist and with 100% sincerity. Also, when you do use them, for ****'s sake, only use one, an example that might help you to understand why this is a poor practice (outside of it just looking tacky and downright stupid): 99/100 when the Hulk says "Hulk Smash!" he'll only use one exclamation point, so ask yourself, are you saying anything that warrants more than "Hulk Smash!"? No, no you are not, cut that shit out.

3. Stop abusing periods. Period. That thing you're doing, with the multiple periods in a row, that's called an ellipsis, the way you're using it makes no sense whatsoever and I notice you do this with every post you've ever made, rather inexplicably might I add. The proper usage of an ellipsis is rarely used because people don't bother to learn proper English skills anymore, however in common vernacular people have come to use it more as a period of dramatic/emphasized/prolonged silence, allowing the statement to sink in more (which I presume is what you're doing, because you're not using it in the context of a quote), which appears to be what you are TRYING to do. This method of communication does not prescribe that the use of the ellipsis (...) has an actual period of time, the pause is for as long as the reader requires or chooses to take (we all read at different speeds after all). This means that you use 3 periods in an ellipsis (like so: ...), no more, you've already communicated your meaning, using more only makes you look foolish. Another note, you DO NOT use an ellipsis after you've already used other punctuation, least of all a damned exclamation point.

The ellipsis is something that should also not be abused, it loses its effectiveness when used more than maybe once, it also should only be placed when appropriate, normally this is only when you're at the very end of your final statement, using it to give your readers the impression that you're done, perhaps you said something deep, some people use it to imply that they're trailing off. It should not be used in the middle of a paragraph. Ever.

A final addition to this portion; you've not used the ellipsis correctly in your entire post, nowhere was it ever appropriate, it looks like you have some sort of nervous tick that compulsively forces you to hold down the period key for no reason.

Don't do that!... - WRONG

4. You ramble and repeat yourself a lot, you should really proof-read what you're about to post, make sure that you haven't repeated yourself. Everything you wrote I could easily edit down to less than half the size of what you have posted and give across just as much information.

You're probably going to say "Ease off, it's the internet", but no, if you cannot communicate clearly and concisely with your text when on a forum, where it is your only way of expressing your thoughts to another person, then you cannot reasonably be irritated when a person chooses to ignore your illiterate statements and discount you entirely because you type like a small child, whether it be because you're so lazy that you can't be bothered to learn and fix your post (if you don't put any effort into speaking clearly then you obviously don't think what you have to say is important and if you don't think what you have to say is important then why should I bother to listen/read it?) or you're some sort of person who suffers some sort of extreme mental retardation (in which case your intelligence will be exceedingly low and I wouldn't care for your opinion anyway).

----------------------------------------------------------------

Putting my venomous diatribe aside I've also got a few bones to pick with what you've said, in fact, rereading my thoughts (some advice I gave you as well, I'm bringing this full circle) I've noticed that I have a problem with everything you've said:

1. Yes, because nobody has ever read the old comics in recent times. All those TPB's and Hardcover book collections Marvel prints? Yeah, people only buy those to burn, no one reads them. This line of thinking is absurd. With this same line of thinking you'd have to say that nobody could ever have any of the works of Mark Twain as their favourite books because they weren't alive at the time. That's like saying that no one could have a favorite run on the Spider-Man books that came before they were reading, for ****'s sake, how many people on this forum alone say that their favorite run on the books was the original Lee/Ditko run? Not to mention that you completely contradict yourself in your closing statements:

....and our grandsons will feel for Peter when they read Superior cause it's Peter who got the trouble....!!.....

Oh, I'm sorry, how could our grandchildren feel for the character? they weren't alive at the time and according to you if they weren't alive at the time of writing then their opinions are invalidated.

2. The story is still bad because it butchers the characterization of the character of Gwen Stacey, you may think that she was rather generic and boring, but that doesn't change that generic characterization is still characterization. Whether you thought the character was interesting in any way changes nothing about the situation.

3. The story you mentioned regarding the Black Cat in the story "The Evil That Men Do" is an apples an oranges situation, What happened to Gwen fundamentally altered her character, completely changing almost everything we knew, turning her from loyal to liar. In the case of the Black Cat nothing changed about her previous characterization, we see what shaped her into the person we would later meet in the earlier Spider-Man stories.

4. These characters are not your relatives, no sane individual would think of any fictional character as such, they may like them, but that's where it ends. Especially the way you put it, with you thinking that MJ and peter are both your siblings and they're humping. I don't know where you come from that siblings are humping each other openly but where I come from they tend to frown on that (I'm nitpicking on your poor communication skills but I don't care, we've already established that I'm a jerk).

----------------------------------------------------------------

TLDR: I'm a a cruel jerk, but I communicate well and sound intelligent whilst doing it.

Posted by JetiiMitra
Posted by JetiiMitra

It just annoys me to no end how it was treated. I feel like it could have been a good story, but just wasn't. I already knew Norman was a sick bastard, I don't need this to convince me. But even so, it might have been alright if not for her reasoning:










That's just not good enough for me. She couldn't help herself? Just no. I'll admit I can't think of a better alternative. The only alternatives I can think of period is that the whole thing was non-consensual (and pretty much nobody wants that), or that it was something she was convinced of over a period of time (which would carry its own problems). Just not handled right. And then the fact that MJ knew for so long doesn't sit right with me, though it's not that huge of a gripe comparatively.

The good to come out of it, though, was Sarah Stacy. I found her a sympathetic character who came out of a true mess. I really, really wish we could have seen more of her than Sins Past and Remembered, as she's one of the only Osborns who hasn't gone crazy, she doesn't go with Norman's plan even though he's her father and her whole world besides Gabriel, and she's a painful reminder to Peter of what he lost, while he has to remember that it's not her fault for anything that anything happened. Gabriel's okay too, I guess, though the whole Goblin thing was too predictable.

Also I really want her to beat up SpOck, but of course I'm over complaining about him.

Edited by spider11211

@punyparker said:

@ninjablade09: No,i just wanted to post that opinion,and it was very long.I decided to post it on the "blog" section of my profile :)

I dont hate Sin's Past,cause it shows how evil Norman is and that he will do everything to hurt Peter!!....that's the general idea of the story!......and because of what i wrote above...

"Spider-Man & Black Cat:The Evil THat Men Do." mini-series.

Kevin Smith and Terry Dodson.

Excellent mini-series....the best interaction between Pete and Felicia you can find.

Yes! My wife loves this mini. Black Cat and Spider-man are her favorite characters.

.....Now if I could just get her in a Black Cat costume again......hmmmmmm

Also what if your over 30?

Posted by Ninjablade09

@punyparker said:

@ninjablade09: No,i just wanted to post that opinion,and it was very long.I decided to post it on the "blog" section of my profile :)

I dont hate Sin's Past,cause it shows how evil Norman is and that he will do everything to hurt Peter!!....that's the general idea of the story!......and because of what i wrote above...

"Spider-Man & Black Cat:The Evil THat Men Do." mini-series.

Kevin Smith and Terry Dodson.

Excellent mini-series....the best interaction between Pete and Felicia you can find.

Yes! My wife loves this mini. Black Cat and Spider-man are her favorite characters.

.....Now if I could just get her in a Black Cat costume again......hmmmmmm

Also what if your over 30?

You're talking about your wife right? lol

Posted by PunyParker

@baron_bj: I appreciate your corrections.But i want to tell you something.I am not starting a blog!...

It was originally a post,but,as you can see,it ended up being long,i posted it as a blog post......i never had or have the intention to start,and CONTINUE, a blog.Maybe that's why it's a bit careless,and plain.

@mitran said:

It just annoys me to no end how it was treated. I feel like it could have been a good story, but just wasn't. I already knew Norman was a sick bastard, I don't need this to convince me. But even so, it might have been alright if not for her reasoning:

That's just not good enough for me. She couldn't help herself? Just no. I'll admit I can't think of a better alternative. The only alternatives I can think of period is that the whole thing was non-consensual (and pretty much nobody wants that), or that it was something she was convinced of over a period of time (which would carry its own problems). Just not handled right. And then the fact that MJ knew for so long doesn't sit right with me, though it's not that huge of a gripe comparatively.

The good to come out of it, though, was Sarah Stacy. I found her a sympathetic character who came out of a true mess. I really, really wish we could have seen more of her than Sins Past and Remembered, as she's one of the only Osborns who hasn't gone crazy, she doesn't go with Norman's plan even though he's her father and her whole world besides Gabriel, and she's a painful reminder to Peter of what he lost, while he has to remember that it's not her fault for anything that anything happened. Gabriel's okay too, I guess, though the whole Goblin thing was too predictable.

Also I really want her to beat up SpOck, but of course I'm over complaining about him.

Yeah,i totally agree.I bitch about the main plot point,and not the structure of the story which is poor.....i made myself clear,when i said how i would feel if they had done this to MJ,a character i love and care for.

Also what if your over 30?

If you're there's a possibility you read the comics while Gwen was alive and living.That way you maybe cared for her,and i respect that.I cant love and bond with a character of a comic i never read.

Posted by 8008S

I'm just gonna say, just because Gwen made an (admittedly) awful mistake it doesn't make her a heartless bitch. She wanted to take responsibility for the twins and wanted Peter to raise them with her; that must mean something in the strength of character and goodness scale, imo.

Posted by PunyParker

@8008s said:

I'm just gonna say, just because Gwen made an (admittedly) awful mistake it doesn't make her a heartless bitch. She wanted to take responsibility for the twins and wanted Peter to raise them with her; that must mean something in the strength of character and goodness scale, imo.

Whoa whoa.....i never said something bad about Gwen.....(if that's reffering to me)

Posted by 8008S

@punyparker: It isn't. But I see most people scream character assasination at this and figured it'd be fun to play devil's advocate once.

Then again maybe it's the JMS run fanboy talking. *Fades away*

Edited by PunyParker

@8008s said:

Then again maybe it's the JMS run fanboy talking. *Fades away*

You're the second biggest after me,bro....

Posted by 8008S
Posted by PunyParker
Posted by spider11211

@baron_bj: I appreciate your corrections.But i want to tell you something.I am not starting a blog!...

It was originally a post,but,as you can see,it ended up being long,i posted it as a blog post......i never had or have the intention to start,and CONTINUE, a blog.Maybe that's why it's a bit careless,and plain.

@mitran said:

It just annoys me to no end how it was treated. I feel like it could have been a good story, but just wasn't. I already knew Norman was a sick bastard, I don't need this to convince me. But even so, it might have been alright if not for her reasoning:

That's just not good enough for me. She couldn't help herself? Just no. I'll admit I can't think of a better alternative. The only alternatives I can think of period is that the whole thing was non-consensual (and pretty much nobody wants that), or that it was something she was convinced of over a period of time (which would carry its own problems). Just not handled right. And then the fact that MJ knew for so long doesn't sit right with me, though it's not that huge of a gripe comparatively.

The good to come out of it, though, was Sarah Stacy. I found her a sympathetic character who came out of a true mess. I really, really wish we could have seen more of her than Sins Past and Remembered, as she's one of the only Osborns who hasn't gone crazy, she doesn't go with Norman's plan even though he's her father and her whole world besides Gabriel, and she's a painful reminder to Peter of what he lost, while he has to remember that it's not her fault for anything that anything happened. Gabriel's okay too, I guess, though the whole Goblin thing was too predictable.

Also I really want her to beat up SpOck, but of course I'm over complaining about him.

Yeah,i totally agree.I bitch about the main plot point,and not the structure of the story which is poor.....i made myself clear,when i said how i would feel if they had done this to MJ,a character i love and care for.

@spider11211 said:

Also what if your over 30?

If you're there's a possibility you read the comics while Gwen was alive and living.That way you maybe cared for her,and i respect that.I cant love and bond with a character of a comic i never read.

Even that was a little before us older farts.....but we still cared.

Posted by PunyParker

@spider11211: I care for Peter.And his pain for the loss of the character.I dont care for Gwen.

Posted by spider11211

@spider11211: I care for Peter.And his pain for the loss of the character.I dont care for Gwen.

I like Gwen but to be fair I like MJ much more.

With that said Black Cat will always hold a special place in my heart and in my pants.

Edited by PunyParker

@punyparker said:

@spider11211: I care for Peter.And his pain for the loss of the character.I dont care for Gwen.

I like Gwen but to be fair I like MJ much more.

With that said Black Cat will always hold a special place in my heart and in my pants.

eew,c;mon,stop.

Posted by spider11211

Black Cat makes Spider-man happy.

photo tumblr_mbpfw9kww91rg7q18o1_500.gif

Posted by daredevil21134

@baron_bj said:

Because this was listed as a blog post I'm going to get all anal retentive up in this house. If you're going to blog then please, for the love of god, learn how punctuation works. I'll even give you a run down on some of the basics that you don't seem to understand, don't worry, the first time is free:

1.After you place a period, or any other form of punctuation in your sentence, you should place a space after it if you're going to continue on from it. Here's an example:

I like dogs.I don't like cats. - WRONG

I like dogs. I don't like cats. - CORRECT

I love dogs!I don't care for cats. - WRONG

I love dogs! I don't care for cats. - CORRECT

2. Don't abuse exclamation points. Using them often devalues them and they're annoying to read, for example in journalism there's an unofficial rule that says you should only use an exclamation point once every 10,000 words, I say this as a journalist and with 100% sincerity. Also, when you do use them, for ****'s sake, only use one, an example that might help you to understand why this is a poor practice (outside of it just looking tacky and downright stupid): 99/100 when the Hulk says "Hulk Smash!" he'll only use one exclamation point, so ask yourself, are you saying anything that warrants more than "Hulk Smash!"? No, no you are not, cut that shit out.

3. Stop abusing periods. Period. That thing you're doing, with the multiple periods in a row, that's called an ellipsis, the way you're using it makes no sense whatsoever and I notice you do this with every post you've ever made, rather inexplicably might I add. The proper usage of an ellipsis is rarely used because people don't bother to learn proper English skills anymore, however in common vernacular people have come to use it more as a period of dramatic/emphasized/prolonged silence, allowing the statement to sink in more (which I presume is what you're doing, because you're not using it in the context of a quote), which appears to be what you are TRYING to do. This method of communication does not prescribe that the use of the ellipsis (...) has an actual period of time, the pause is for as long as the reader requires or chooses to take (we all read at different speeds after all). This means that you use 3 periods in an ellipsis (like so: ...), no more, you've already communicated your meaning, using more only makes you look foolish. Another note, you DO NOT use an ellipsis after you've already used other punctuation, least of all a damned exclamation point.

The ellipsis is something that should also not be abused, it loses its effectiveness when used more than maybe once, it also should only be placed when appropriate, normally this is only when you're at the very end of your final statement, using it to give your readers the impression that you're done, perhaps you said something deep, some people use it to imply that they're trailing off. It should not be used in the middle of a paragraph. Ever.

A final addition to this portion; you've not used the ellipsis correctly in your entire post, nowhere was it ever appropriate, it looks like you have some sort of nervous tick that compulsively forces you to hold down the period key for no reason.

Don't do that!... - WRONG

4. You ramble and repeat yourself a lot, you should really proof-read what you're about to post, make sure that you haven't repeated yourself. Everything you wrote I could easily edit down to less than half the size of what you have posted and give across just as much information.

You're probably going to say "Ease off, it's the internet", but no, if you cannot communicate clearly and concisely with your text when on a forum, where it is your only way of expressing your thoughts to another person, then you cannot reasonably be irritated when a person chooses to ignore your illiterate statements and discount you entirely because you type like a small child, whether it be because you're so lazy that you can't be bothered to learn and fix your post (if you don't put any effort into speaking clearly then you obviously don't think what you have to say is important and if you don't think what you have to say is important then why should I bother to listen/read it?) or you're some sort of person who suffers some sort of extreme mental retardation (in which case your intelligence will be exceedingly low and I wouldn't care for your opinion anyway).

----------------------------------------------------------------

Putting my venomous diatribe aside I've also got a few bones to pick with what you've said, in fact, rereading my thoughts (some advice I gave you as well, I'm bringing this full circle) I've noticed that I have a problem with everything you've said:

1. Yes, because nobody has ever read the old comics in recent times. All those TPB's and Hardcover book collections Marvel prints? Yeah, people only buy those to burn, no one reads them. This line of thinking is absurd. With this same line of thinking you'd have to say that nobody could ever have any of the works of Mark Twain as their favourite books because they weren't alive at the time. That's like saying that no one could have a favorite run on the Spider-Man books that came before they were reading, for ****'s sake, how many people on this forum alone say that their favorite run on the books was the original Lee/Ditko run? Not to mention that you completely contradict yourself in your closing statements:

....and our grandsons will feel for Peter when they read Superior cause it's Peter who got the trouble....!!.....

Oh, I'm sorry, how could our grandchildren feel for the character? they weren't alive at the time and according to you if they weren't alive at the time of writing then their opinions are invalidated.

2. The story is still bad because it butchers the characterization of the character of Gwen Stacey, you may think that she was rather generic and boring, but that doesn't change that generic characterization is still characterization. Whether you thought the character was interesting in any way changes nothing about the situation.

3. The story you mentioned regarding the Black Cat in the story "The Evil That Men Do" is an apples an oranges situation, What happened to Gwen fundamentally altered her character, completely changing almost everything we knew, turning her from loyal to liar. In the case of the Black Cat nothing changed about her previous characterization, we see what shaped her into the person we would later meet in the earlier Spider-Man stories.

4. These characters are not your relatives, no sane individual would think of any fictional character as such, they may like them, but that's where it ends. Especially the way you put it, with you thinking that MJ and peter are both your siblings and they're humping. I don't know where you come from that siblings are humping each other openly but where I come from they tend to frown on that (I'm nitpicking on your poor communication skills but I don't care, we've already established that I'm a jerk).

----------------------------------------------------------------

TLDR: I'm a a cruel jerk, but I communicate well and sound intelligent whilst doing it.

Damn