petes12

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@TheSwordsman:

How is that even possible? Although one one I do know is that some institutes tend to pocket the cash for themselves....and not all who do that are Republicans. It's like the issue with school; despite the media stating that schools need more cash and "think of the children", all the money goes straight to paychecks. Very little flows to children supplies and teaching.

Teachers pay is significantly lower than jobs that require similar levels of education, so of course they should get more money. Or else we won't have good teachers.

Seriously, it amazes me how dumb you are.

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@WillPayton said:

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@WillPayton:

Unlike most, I actually do try to inform myself. It's just that it's very difficult to find media outlets that aren't biased (on both sides. I' not picking just one and sticking to it). Plus it's just not my field. I've always hated politics; it's easier to listen to scientists butt heads over the existence of God than to have to decipher mud from trash when it comes to politicians.

Plus, I may sound ranting, but I'm writing this as professionally as I can. And I highly doubt Romney will bankrupt people. He has a multimillion dollar business of his own. If he wanted to bankrupt something by now, his whole business would be in the toilet.

And this comes from someone who thinks Romney is squishy soft and that Ron Paul is strange.

I come from a science background too, I have a degree in Astrophysics. If you dont pay attention to politics, then you'll be a pawn in other people's game to make you do what they want you to do.

There are plenty of news outlets that aren't too biased... I read Reuters and watch CNN. I like NPR and BBC. Even MSNBC does a decent job of having conservatives on, even though it's a liberal network. The worst is Fox News... almost everything on there is lies and propaganda. All Fox News does is attack Obama and promote the Republicans. "Fair and Balanced" my ass!

If you actually look at what Romney wants to do, and look at Paul Ryan's budget ideas, they are terrible. Sorry, I don't care if Romney made a lot of money being in private equity, that's not the same thing as running a country. The guy is a total flip-flopper, he'll only tell people what they want to hear. He's already changed his stance on multiple issues. He wont even talk about his record as governor... wonder why? And, he'd rather take the heat of people wondering what's in his tax returns than actually disclosing them. Again, wonder why?

Look at what Romney and Ryan actually want to do... lower taxes on the rich, raise taxes on the poor, cut social programs, spend more money on the military... and, why? Mostly because they believe in things like trickle-down economics, that's been demonstrated to NOT WORK. All they'd actually do is increase the wealth gap between the poor and rich, giving tax breaks to other rich people. Hell, by Ryan's budget, Romney would pay something like less than 1% in income taxes. How about you, do you pay less than 1% in taxes? Do you think it's fair that someone who makes $100 million/year would pay 1% and you'd pay like, what, 20 - 30%?

No I don't. In fact, most of the "crazy Republicans" never want that level of taxation in the country to begin with. (so tempted to make a Bush Sr. joke about that) I don't like Romney at all. Ryan seems okay to me, maybe a little young. But there is a thing that millionaires like Trump do that , while it cuts back their taxes significantly, still dishes out a ton of cash. Charity. I know that it's not really a "big deal", but when the percentage a millionaire pays in comparison to a middle class house, it's genuinely shocking.

Let's say taxes get pushed to 30 % for average Joe's. I know that equals to a good chunk from the annual total, but different per person. Now a millionaire that gives a good chunk of change to charity gets it dropped to 15 percent. Sounds unfair.

But then, the annual net income they get in is greater. While on average it would be roughly 10-20,000 dollars a middle class family, a millionaire or billionaire would be forced to pay a huge chunk of change. Oftentimes several million dollars. Now I don't have millions of dollars to give to the government, so I don't know if its penny's for a millionaire.

So I never "get" why people get upset at millionaires for charity and paying millions in taxes every year/few months. Because if I want to get rich one day, I'll have to go through the same exact thing myself.

And I was never born rich.

what are you even talking about? its a % of your money, if he pays 30% and you pay 30%, you're paying the same amounts relative to how much you make.

and middle class and poor people actually give larger amounts of their own money, in %, to charities than rich people do so I don't understand why you're bringing that up at all.

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

@AtPhantom said:

@VercingetorixTheGreat said:

But I do like the name republican because a republic is a better system then a democracy (mobocracy)

Uh... you live in a democracy.

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope: Having a giant army is good, but America is taking it to the point of absurdity. You could probably cut the military by half and still have enough to protect all the global interests the US has at the moment. You don't need eleven aircraft carriers when the next carrier power can afford only two.

uh no I do not... I live in the US a constitutional Republic.

it's not a direct democracy but it is the common understanding of a democracy

@WillPayton said:

@petes12 said:

Because republicans keep damaging the economy and killing Obama's job growth bills?

The Republicans said it years ago... their main purpose was to make sure Obama didnt get re-elected. Not to improve the economy, not to help make more jobs, not to lower the deficits,... Then, in Congress, they do everything possible to not get anything done and keep Obama from doing anything productive. Sure, I can understand that hey might have legitimate differences of opinion with Obama and specific legislation, but their intent is obviously to make sure things get as bad as possible and then blame Obama. Even when things go ok, they just find something else to blame Obama for. Hell, if someone dies in a lightning strike, you can bet Fox News will blame Obama for it... somehow.

BTW, Congress's approval ratings are still around 10%... lower than at any time in history. Obama is at around... what, 48%? Also, I believe this last Congress was the least productive one in a long, long time. They basically did not much other than try to pass a lot of anti-abortion laws. I'm sick and tired of all that shit.

actually least productive in history I believe.

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@WillPayton:

I do still blame Obama. People worship him like its the 2nd coming of Christ. The last I heard about the economy ratings was that it's still right around 7.5-8 percent of people without jobs and stuff.

I'll admit, the notion of Desert Storm was a bit foggy (Hell I don't know what was the cause of it in the first place outside of Saddam Hussein), but we got into Iraq because the US lost innocent people in an unprovoked attack that killed not only citizens and children, but also foreign visitors.

The first war (Desert Storm I guess?) was I think around the time of the Clinton administration, well before G.W. got elected. The 2nd war, or the war that I do know, was to find the cell that orchestrated 9/11 and bring them to justice. Then people say it was to prevent non-existing nuclear bombs. (for crying out loud I was in elementary school when this happened. I only vaguely remember any of this)

Ah! My brain hurts!

But the fact of the matter is , at least from what I know or "claim to know", is why are we still recessed? If the president is doing such kick ass job, why is everything re-tarded? (not the name calling word, the original definition of the word. It means to "hold back")

It may not be as bad in other states, but California is in deep Hell. More and more taxes increase, gas prices hitting 4 dollars plus in places.

I just want this to be over. Now. I've listened to promises from a politician, been yelled at that his word is gold and that I'm full of manure to doubt. But I want a return to the Regan era. An era that I've never experienced, and most likely never will again. I want to live in a united states. Not a divided nation.

Because republicans keep damaging the economy and killing Obama's job growth bills?

also,i'd rather vote for romney than ron paul. ron paul is just that terrible

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@petes12:

I got it because the moment anybody says something a liberal doesn't like, the name calling starts.

But who was it that was one of the first documentary directors that did a biopic on how evil the US medical system is? Was it Michael Moore?

And I'm not faking anything. When it comes to politics, I don't lie.

I just have zero problem insulting people I find morally reprehensible, and especially people who lie and buy into lies in the face of obvious facts.

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@petes12 said:

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@petes12:

Huh. I just took a look at the websites you showed me. All of them the exact same website, or sections from the same website. I may be a "biased racist bigot" as you love to acknowledge anybody who doesn't bow down to your own views, but at least I read multiple websites, each with different opinions.

Canada is no country of conservatives. I say this because a few of my teachers last semester where from Canada, and the way they talked about their country, it was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard, far beyond anything a patriot would talk about. The reason why FOX was outlawed wasn't because of "lies". It was because FOX doesn't submit to peer pressure.

The mentality some guys still have is that if its different, kill it or change it.

Ha. Domestic violence has never been a thing for the hospitals to care about. Not unless there's direct evidence, ad we sure don't need the government to tell us what to do. And Roe vs. Wade is an abomination of legislature because it doesn't benefit women at all. Just abortions.

Hmm. Do you know anything about socialized medicine? Anything at all? It's free, yes....but that's about all. You need to wait multiple hours in line to register for an appointment. The surgery is done at leisure in rooms without proper sterilized gear. There are often times mistakes done and repeat procedures, killing patients alot.

No ventilation at all. The patients are moved without notification to the families. Instead of a speedy recovery, they lock you in a room for weeks, where no doctor goes until they absolutely have to.

Plus emergency operations are often times delayed for several months, because doctors go on strike, or are on vacation. Some don't even go to work at all, just going shopping and telling their secretaries to tell the waiting patients that they'll be there soon.

And infections run rampant. You can have a baby by c-section, then die a week later because a cut was made by an unclean knife.

So yes, social medicines is a wonderful thing. It's so much better to let people wait, slowly getting worse and worse before a doctor bothers letting them in to re-check stitches or something, or to see when to schedule for heart surgery or whatever.

Oh, and the rooms aren't prepared. They never prepare the rooms. They dump you in a room and say to you "Get your own sheets". It happened to my grandpa.

I use multiple sources too. However, thinkprogress is easy to search and find the stuff I wanted, and I'd love to see you try and disprove any of the articles I linked. They themselves use sources that are bipartisan and factual. Unlike Fox heh. Tbh, the second you try to pretend Fox news is a legitimate news source, you've already lost. You're already obviously nuts.

Also, it's clear you've bought into the ridiculous propaganda about how terrible 'socialized medicine' is, which the ACA is not btw, it's not run by the government at all. Before and after the healthcare bill kicks in, you'll be using the same health providers, the only difference is in 2014, if you get terribly sick then your healthcare provider won't be allowed to drop you, they'll actually have to do their job that you pay them for.

All I hear is the ramblings of a child that didn't get their way when they were growing up. The moment you start name calling someone that doesn't share your opinions, YOU sir, have lost the battle.

And I didn't buy into the propaganda, as you call it. All that I stated is genuine and it happened...mainly because that's what is going on in the hospitals in Italy where my relatives go. And they hate every inch of the politics I believe in.

How do you get child who didn't get their way out of my 'liberal' lack of utter disdain for other human beings? But lets move away from the childish labels and get right to the facts. Your most likely fake anecdote aside, Italy's healthcare beats the sh*t out of America's. http://www.commonwealthfund.org/News/News-Releases/2011/Sep/US-Ranks-Last-on-Preventable-Deaths.aspx

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@petes12:

Huh. I just took a look at the websites you showed me. All of them the exact same website, or sections from the same website. I may be a "biased racist bigot" as you love to acknowledge anybody who doesn't bow down to your own views, but at least I read multiple websites, each with different opinions.

Canada is no country of conservatives. I say this because a few of my teachers last semester where from Canada, and the way they talked about their country, it was one of the most disturbing things I've ever heard, far beyond anything a patriot would talk about. The reason why FOX was outlawed wasn't because of "lies". It was because FOX doesn't submit to peer pressure.

The mentality some guys still have is that if its different, kill it or change it.

Ha. Domestic violence has never been a thing for the hospitals to care about. Not unless there's direct evidence, ad we sure don't need the government to tell us what to do. And Roe vs. Wade is an abomination of legislature because it doesn't benefit women at all. Just abortions.

Hmm. Do you know anything about socialized medicine? Anything at all? It's free, yes....but that's about all. You need to wait multiple hours in line to register for an appointment. The surgery is done at leisure in rooms without proper sterilized gear. There are often times mistakes done and repeat procedures, killing patients alot.

No ventilation at all. The patients are moved without notification to the families. Instead of a speedy recovery, they lock you in a room for weeks, where no doctor goes until they absolutely have to.

Plus emergency operations are often times delayed for several months, because doctors go on strike, or are on vacation. Some don't even go to work at all, just going shopping and telling their secretaries to tell the waiting patients that they'll be there soon.

And infections run rampant. You can have a baby by c-section, then die a week later because a cut was made by an unclean knife.

So yes, social medicines is a wonderful thing. It's so much better to let people wait, slowly getting worse and worse before a doctor bothers letting them in to re-check stitches or something, or to see when to schedule for heart surgery or whatever.

Oh, and the rooms aren't prepared. They never prepare the rooms. They dump you in a room and say to you "Get your own sheets". It happened to my grandpa.

I use multiple sources too. However, thinkprogress is easy to search and find the stuff I wanted, and I'd love to see you try and disprove any of the articles I linked. They themselves use sources that are bipartisan and factual. Unlike Fox heh. Tbh, the second you try to pretend Fox news is a legitimate news source, you've already lost. You're already obviously nuts.

Also, it's clear you've bought into the ridiculous propaganda about how terrible 'socialized medicine' is, which the ACA is not btw, it's not run by the government at all. Before and after the healthcare bill kicks in, you'll be using the same health providers, the only difference is in 2014, if you get terribly sick then your healthcare provider won't be allowed to drop you, they'll actually have to do their job that you pay them for.

Personally I think Lobbyists are the biggest problem. If you subtracted what's essentially bribes from the equation, you'd suddenly see a lot more sanity, and more serving the voters directly rather than corporate benefactors.

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@petes12 said:

Put frankly I can't see why anyone would agree on current republicans on a single thing. People saying both parties are corrupt are using some serious false equivalency nonsense. There is a significantly more guilty party.

Republicans:

want tax breaks for richest americans

want tax hikes on middle class

want to lower minimum wage

want to decrease spending on education substantially

and increase spending on the military, and subsidies for the corporations that least deserve or need them

support racist bills like sb1070 despite immigrants, illegal or not, boosting the economy

want to roll back women's rights

want to keep discriminating against gay people

want to keep gun control at an absolute minimum

want to repeal healthcare reform

are demonizing intelligence itself, trying to revise history and science

and in some cases trying to erase the separation of church and state

are trying to win the election with racist voter suppression laws

and massively sabotaged our economy just to make obama look worse

and straight up propaganda masquerading as news

can anyone please tell me why anyone would vote for these scumbags? they're like supervillains! and there's not one issue they're right about, morally or factually. frankly anyone saying republicans have a better grasp on economics have no idea what they're talking about.

All of the things I've bolded are exact complete opposite to what Republicans believe in.

Tax breaks are for everyone that has a job, not the "richest". The rich capitalists only get tax breaks because they give out more than half of their earnings in donation to charities and good causes for impoverished people. Plus they pay up the butt more in taxes than most. So next time the beloved president says that rich people don't pay their share, think this: all the money THEY worked for is now taken away by force for somebody else, leaving them with scraps. How I know this? Because Greece, France, Spain and Italy are doing the exact same things.

Tax hikes of middle class? Far from it; they're trying to decrease taxes across the board. No exceptions. The Democrats in DC and California increase taxes every year for middle class, leaving the "poverty level" people to go get money checks that come directly from the people that pay excessive taxes to begin with.

Racist bills? I went to a Tea Party once near my house. What did I see? Every race you can think of there, all together to support a belief they had in common. There was no thing about race, none at all. The economy is in shambles because many illegal immigrants who come to the US expect handouts instead of work (not all, since a few are escaping virtual battlefields.) A work program like Switzerland has is a good idea to implement, with an added bonus that after a period of time, the workers can get a visa to help them become US citizens.

And how can Republicans be the evil racists....if there are a good majority of black conservatives?

It was Democrats in the 60's that wanted to delay rights to women and people of other ethnic groups. There hasn't been a severe case of sexism in the workforce since at least the 90's/early 2000's, and only the cases represented where those of whom the pro-bono lawyers thought could further their media image.

I for one am a 20 year old FEMALE Republican. So far nothing politically discriminative has hit me just because I've got boobs.

Republicans initiating gay discrimination is bull . I'm sorry, but it is. While a lot have had issues in the past, Republicans only disagree with gays in terms of marriage. For me, I'd just give it a different name. Marriage has always been man and woman. Never anything else. Republicans didn't make the definition of it. And why is it that Republicans are the gay haters? I heard a horrible story about extremist Muslim states in the Middle East. There if they catch you being homosexual or even think that you're gay, they kill you. I've never seen Republicans lynch people because of their sexuality. Never.

Healthcare reform. WHAT HEALTHCARE REFORM? All we have is a Grecian healthcare system and threats to shutdown church-sponsored hospitals because their faith doesn't agree with the politicians that want condoms stitched into ever facet of our daily lives. If you think that a European style healthcare system is so great, I dare you to walk into one in Europe. People die there waiting for a chance to even glimpse a doctor. Not here in the US with our systems.

Intelligence is never demonized. Never. The one thing I keep on hearing from Republicans is the good that going to college is. The issue is when you have Professors who think its chill to force students to obey their own biased opinions, rather than keep an objective stance. Just because a Republican believes in God doesn't make them stupid hicks.

Nobody wants the church on our backs. Just a more traditional family oriented society. Instead of dressing like a hooker and aborting babies back and forth they wish a more stable environment that doesn't endanger their children.

There it is again with racism. The laws in the Deep South implemented by DEMOCRATS to prevent blacks from voting where thrown out post Dr. King assassination. The only thing there is is that you have to be a US citizen to vote. That's not racism, that is a LAW.

Our economy was sabotaged by the party at hand. E.G. Democrats. Bush is GONE. His presidency is over. These 4 years have been all democratic offices and positions. Stop blaming the people who are not part of the political group at hand. Everyone in the president's circle are people HE chose. Go blame them, and not the Republicans that have absolutely nothing to do with regressing the US into a 3rd World Country.

Have you listened to yourself? All facets of news media is liberal, the only different one being FOX. And because FOX lists both sides of the argument, the liberal media tries to get rid of it so as there's a monopoly on what kind of news gets broadcast to the people.

I've given my piece to as best as I can from what I've seen, heard and know. I will be willing to give proof of my statements. Because everything you stated is exactly what I believed in when I was younger...before I learned how biased the situation at hand really is.

Talk about not knowing what you're talking about.

-As I said just now in the other post, the Ryan/Romney plan raises taxes on middle class families by $2000 a year, to pay for continued cuts for the richest americans, who pay lower tax rates already. The democrat plan does not. Just because Republicans CLAIM to be against tax raises, period, no matter how many economists say that's totally insane and unmanageable, they've actually just been lying. Comparing the democrats raising taxes on the rich here to what countries like France do is totally insane. France wants to tax their richest at a federal income rate of 90%. Here, democrats just want the richest to pay more than 13%, like everyone else. The private sector is making record profits, and the average CEO is richer than they've ever been in history. While the average american is the poorest they've been since the 30s, when the same exact stuff was going on, which led to the great depression.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/08/01/620561/tpc-romney-study-taxes/

-SB 1070 is a bill to chase illegal immigrants out of Arizona. It works by forcing cops to engage in racial profiling, the idea being to make life miserable for illegal immigrants so they leave on their own. Romney called it a model for the nation. Illegal immigrants however provide the country with more money than they cost, and do jobs that are otherwise totally untaken. They are undoubtedly a boon to the economy. So why chase them out? Well, several of the bill's sponsors and writers have said, and then were later also caught saying in emails, that the motivation is to keep America 'white'.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/07/20/554471/aclu-emails-from-author-of-sb-1070-prove-racial-motivation/

-You might be a women, and you might not care that Republicans have vowed to overturn roe v wade, or that Romney wants to defund planned parenthood (most of what they do is not abortions btw, they provide protection from spousal abuse, do mamograms, etc, generally provide a lot of important services), maybe you don't care that conservatives found competitors to planned parenthood that explicitly lie to their patients about health risks, or that republican laws would compel doctors to do the same, and maybe you don't even care that they want women's healthcare to remain more expensive than a man's. But just because you dont care, that doesn't mean these are not attacks on women's rights.

-Also despite a lot of black people, and hispanic people, holding conservative views, they overwhelmingly vote democrat because they recognize the racism in the right for what it is and they know only the democratic party is looking out for them at all.

-gay discrimination is more than just the marriage issue, although that is discrimination itself, there's a lot of important rights that come from marriage, like how you're taxed as a family, or hospitals allowing only family members to visit patients in certain circumstances. Republicans also almost across the board oppose anti-discrimination laws that would prevent people from being fired for their sexuality, just like current laws that prevent the same discrimination based on race or sex. They want to repeal DODT. And they've signed into law bills that protect soldiers who discriminate against homosexuals, as well as soldiers who rape women in the army.

-The ACA not only would save millions of lives but also saves tons of money, America has one of the absolute worst healthcare systems in the world. It's great if you're rich, this is true, but on the whole we have more deaths due to lack of care than pretty much any other first world country, and our system is the most expensive in the world too. It's terrible. All the ACA does is make it so that companies cant jack up their rates or drop coverage when people actually get sick, and forces everyone to get healthcare. The result is going to be healthcare is a lot less expensive because people get their checkups regularly, meaning our preventative care, which currently is absolute garbage, will catch a lot of problems before they become serious- and expensive. You say people die in Europe waiting for a doctor, but many many more people die here than there.

-Trying to teach theology in science class absolutely makes you a stupid hick, that's not science. But just go look at the Texas GOP's official platform: they oppose teaching children critical thinking and multiculturalism, and would replace it with faith based teachings and nationalism. In other words, indoctrination. The texas GOP board of education has also been revising textbooks to be more pro-republican, avoid using words like democracy to describe america, and have stripped textbooks of teaching about important historical founding fathers of America such as Ben Franklin, because they want to propagate the myth that the country was founded 'as a christian nation', and avoid teaching the absolute fact that it was basically the exact opposite of this. And then, just look at the global warming issue! Every scientist in the friggin world agrees its real, and agrees its caused by man, and republicans have been denying it anyway, trying to undermine the credibility of the science.

-Do you know what voter fraud laws are? Clearly you don't.

-4 years ago, before Obama even took office, Boesner said the house's priority would be to make him a one term president. Not fix the economy, or the deficit, but to make sure Obama lost the next election. They've done so by stonewalling every bill they can to make sure democrats can't get anything done. They've done serious harm to the economy, on purpose, because they know it makes him look bad and people just blame Obama without looking at the real causes for our slow growth, just like you are

http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/320-80/12313-focus-5-ways-republicans-have-sabotaged-job-growth

-The idea of the news being predominantly liberal is a myth propagated by Fox news so they can continue to pretend to be 'fair and balanced' when everyone knows what a bad joke that is. Conservatives in Canada, where Fox is banned because in Canada it's against the law to lie on public broadcast news, have called it appalling fear mongering and state sponsored domestic terrorism. That's conservatives. They're absolutely accurate, and if you want to learn more about it, you can watch 'Outfoxed' on netflix, or read all about the carefully crafted narrative Fox uses to propagate conservative views just about anywhere. Google search it.

Everything I've said here is supported factually, and everything you've said is in fact totally false. So good luck proving anything.

@Vaeternus: being against gay marriage is being against granting equal rights to people who are different from yourself. I can't say whether you hate them or not, but your position oppresses them. and Job creation has shown steady growth under Obama's 4 years in office, and would have seen more had republicans not been actively sabotaging job growth because they want the white house- voting down the jobs plan and gutting the stimulus that still managed to save tons of jobs, and would have saved more, and in their own states doing what they can to cut back on spending in ways that get a lot of people laid off- because it lets them pretend they're trying to be responsible and then they can blame all the layoffs on Obama. Furthermore, the idea that there is any liberal bias in the news, outside of MSNBC, is totally ridiculous. There have been studies done on it, and they show stations like CNN actually generally say more negative things about democrats than republicans, albeit not by much. NPR was totally 50/50 I believe.

Finally, taxes are some of the lowest they've ever been and in these past 4 years Obama has only lowered them for the middle class and smaller businesses. But the truth is that there will have to be some tax hikes- the difference in the parties is that the Ryan Plan raises taxes on middle class families while the democratic plan raises them on people making more than, I want to say it was 3.5 million a year? And while no one likes paying taxes (even though, again, lowest they've been in decades right now), they're needed to pay for things absolutely crucial to our society. Education, which keeps seeing cuts from republicans in the worst ways, is crucial to the country's future. Romney would cede the future of the world to China's hands with his budget. Unemployment benefits, food stamps, etc, necessary safety nets for people who badly need help in the country, designed to give them a chance to recover, get their heads above water, and then working again. And basic infrastructure, roads etc. And I'm sure you'll want to say what about healthcare, but, in addition to saving lives Obamacare also saves money and is expected by the CBO to reduce the deficit over time.