Owie's forum posts

#1 Edited by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

Jessica Jones vs Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel

Battle takes place in a depopulated FAO Schwartz toy store, starting at 30'.

In character, but both are motivated to fight. Win by any means.

Who wins and why?

Jessica Jones
Kamala Khan

#2 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I think the disagreement is mostly just over what it means to be a stomp. Again, I can see how you might call their first Spider-Island fight a stomp. But the second one, while I can again arguably see how you could say Black Panther had the upper hand, I can't see as a stomp. To me a stomp is a situation where one character takes down the other without the other character being able to do anything about it. For instance in this fight, he DID stomp Typhoid Mary, but he sparred with Lady Bullseye for quite some time without being able to take her out the way he did to Typhoid. He did land more blows on LB than she did to him, but none of them seemed to affect her much, any more than hers did to him. The dialog tends to add emphasis to his side, in that he's talking down to her about how she's losing control. So to that extent, I'd say he's perhaps winning, but not stomping, and it's unclear what would have happened if the fight went to its end, although I'd guess he'd eventually win. My point was mostly about terminology.

In terms of Elektra, I tend to not see BP's fight against LB as being all that much better because while Panther avoided most of Lady Bullseye's attacks, he also didn't do any lasting damage to her (she's still easily jumping around buildings when she left), while on the other hand Elektra did get wounded by Lady Bullseye, but then was able to clearly defeat and mortally wound her. Panther probably would have won too, if his fight continued, but he didn't, so it's a little hard to compare them. I see it as two different approaches to a fight--Panther was taking a longer term and somewhat safer approach, trying to take her down bit by bit with more jumping around, while Elektra kind of waded in there and put herself in more danger of being hurt in order to go for the reward of a quicker take-down. She got more hurt, but had a more decisive win. Kind of six of one, half dozen of another.

Honestly I don't what my point with Kingpin was going to be. I had a couple different approaches I was going to make in my post and Kingpin had to do with one of them, and then I got rid of most of it and left the Kingpin stuff in there. Just ignore it, sorry.

Anyway like I said I basically agree with your major points, I think Panther is more skilled than Deathstroke and his Man Without Fear fights support that.

#3 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

I am on a snail-slow internet right now and won't be home for a few days so I haven't watched any of the Xena videos, and I'm not sure if I'd have time in any case unfortunately. This also means that while I read almost all of the Sonja scans, I couldn't read the final post's scans (I'll get to them eventually). So if you don't want to count my vote that would be totally understandable. However, based on the written debate, and the scans that I did see, I would give my vote to Wyldsong. I think his arguments were more detailed and specific and he made his points better.

Whoever the winner is, the debate was great from both sides and I totally agree with the spirit of gojira's final comment about how hopefully this debate will bring a lot of needed respect to both characters. Anyone who needs convincing about either character's abilities should get pointed to this thread.

#4 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

I dunno, Marv probably wins 10/10 based on what I know of current Magneto, but then I think he'd take a solid majority over regular Magneto as well.

Really? The old-school 10-tonner Mar-vell? I'm curious, are you thinking his durability or speed or energy blasts would too much against standard Mags? I'd think standard Magneto would beat him relatively easily, between his shields and ability to just constantly pummel Mar-vell with high-velocity shrapnel while holding him in place with more metal. I don't think his durability was that great, excepting a few fights against Drax that seem a little outside his norm. Magneto could conceivably just pull the nega-bands right off him.

Current Magneto has been kind of creative with his powers. For instance he killed Arclight and Blockbuster by using some liquid metal stuff that he made flow in their noses and go into their brains. (IRRC...maybe their hearts...anyway same basic point.) Anyway it was that kind of thing that made me think he's got some options against Mar-vell at this power level.

#5 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cable_extreme said:

The comparison with lady Bullseye is kinda irrelevent in my honest opinion. I don't find her as skilled nor as physically impressive as black Panther (or Deathstroke). Even without his herb he blitzes people, and outmatches people physically.

Except he never blitzed lady bullseye. And sure she may not be a top tier fighter but she does have feats of her own. She beat black widow recently, and if you compare how she did against elektra vs how she did against black panther, black panther did much better. Yes Elektra did beat lady bullseye but she acknowledged lady bullseyes skills and also got some hits in on elektra where as black panther was handling lady bullseye effortlessly.

Meaning based on fights without his enhancements we can say black panther is better than elektra. Slade on the other hand doesn't even have showings without his enhancements.

I'm going to slightly disagree with your take on his fights with Lady Bullseye. I know we differ on his first fight with her when they had their Spider-Island powers; I'm assuming that's the one you're referring to when you say he blitzed her and stomped her and handled her easily. I'd say she did better than that but for the sake of argument let's just say I agree on that fight. In their next real fight, however (not counting the brief scene in the hospital where they didn't really fight)--the one with Luke Cage,Falcon, Typhoid Mary, and tons of Hand--I think she did pretty well against him; the fight between them lasts several pages and numerous punches and kicks and dodges from both combatants, with neither significantly hurt. She eventually makes a tactical retreat when it's clear Panther's team has the overall advantage. Point being that he could arguably be said to have beaten her the first time, but in the rematch she held her own. And in that rematch, I would say that he did not do all that much better against her than Elektra did. However, I would at the same time agree with your overall point that Black Panther is a better fighter than Lady Bullseye overall. (In fact, his one-shotting of Typhoid Mary in that same fight was a nice feat.)

BP also more or less fought to a draw against Kingpin a couple times around that point. Kingpin does often do well against DD etc., but still I felt like it was less than what I expected from BP. It is arguable that Panther let Kingpin do so well against him so as to position Kingpin for a longer-term strategic loss. But my overall feeling was that they were kind of equally matched. So Panther has had some lows along with his highs.

But in any case I think BP's matches against Cap, Karnak, Iron Fist, Wolverine, Kraven, and others put him at a very high skill level, one of the very highest in Marvel, and probably slightly above Deathstroke.

#6 Edited by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice Peace vs Death's Head (I), two time-jumping peace-keepers.

Standard gear, in character. Battle takes place in a warehouse liquor store, starting at 30' Win by any means. But no time travel. Or bikes, despite the pics :)

Who wins and why?

Justice Peace
Death's Head

#7 Edited by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Magneto (powers weakened as they are these days) vs Classic Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell, we're talking back before he died of cancer)

Battle takes place in an auto wrecking yard, starting at 40'. Win by any means. In character.

Who wins and why?

Current Magneto

Old-School Mar-Vell

#8 Edited by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

Kamala Khan, the new Ms. Marvel, vs Toad

Battle takes place in a depopulated farmer's market, starting at 30'.

In character. Win by any means.

Who wins and why?

My theory here is that Kamala's powers are better, but Toad is more experienced. How does that work out?

Kamala Khan

#9 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Black Panther in a very close fight. I'm kind of drunk and won't get into why.

But as an aside, @k4tzm4n since I don't think this has been brought up, does BP have his personal force field, since I believe that's part of his standard gear these days? I just ask since most of his other gear is spelled out in the OP.

#10 Posted by Owie (3631 posts) - - Show Bio

I was all set for this until Land.

Land is pretty much the opposite of what a Spider-Woman comic needs.

Actually Land is pretty much the opposite of what any comic needs.