OrionStarlancer

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OrionStarlancer

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#1  Edited By OrionStarlancer

The main thing I got out of the trailer was that Xavier and Magneto age terribly while Emma Frost, Mystique, and Hank age incredibly well.  In fact, in the 30-40 yr gap between the settings of the first x-men to this movie, it looks like the two elderly gentlemen quadruple their age, and the rest might actually get younger.  SIGH.   
 
And in light of this bizarre sense of time, I am left with one main question: in the absolutely enormously populated Marvel universe, WERE THERE NO OTHER CHARACTERS WHO ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN YOUNG IN THE 60'S????

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#2  Edited By OrionStarlancer

I wonder if The Cape is already on its way out and they're looking to fill the spot with something similar to capture the same type of audience but with a better character (and hopefully a much much better show too).

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#3  Edited By OrionStarlancer

Please do more of these.  This is very helpful.  Thanks!

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#4  Edited By OrionStarlancer
@jakob187: @jakob187 said:
" A lot of these pages need a little more love than just some headings.  I went through the Catwoman page and tried to pretty it up some with some general formatting, spelling and grammar, and such.  I didn't comb it with a fine tooth comb or anything, and I really need to work on some of the stuff at the bottom of that page.  However, there are pictures down there which can be difficult to work around without deleting and reuploading and such.  If it's one thing that I hate on my own wiki pages that I've put a lot of time in, it's when people delete stuff and then re-add it or whatever.  I will say, however, that people need to make sure they are not MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ON WIKI PAGES!!!  The Catwoman page specifically said that Catwoman was going to be in The Dark Knight Rises.  However, no one...not Nolan, Bale, Hardy, Hathaway, NOBODY...has stated that Catwoman will be in the movie - only Selina Kyle.  I changed up the piece in Catwoman's film history that stated "Anne Hathaway is signed on to play Catwoman and Bane is the main villain being played by Tom Hardy".  If I'm wrong on that, then hey...let me know, but that type of stuff doesn't work on some of the other Whiskey sites (like the Infamous ice-powers scandal). "
I absolutely agree.  This is partially why I think it would help to integrate some level of citation, which could have cleared up the Selina Kyle / Catwoman issue by saying something like the following:  
 
According to recent news sources, Anne Hathaway has been chosen to play Selina Kyle in The Dark Knight Rises, though no official statement has been issued regarding whether or not her character while take up her alter-ego, Catwoman.  Although Nolan has issued no official statement, some worry that this may echo Tim Burton's use of Billy Dee Williams as Havey Dent in Batman without ever later using him as Two-Face. 
 
After the first sentence there would be a superscript number that would refer to a reference at the bottom of the page (likely a link to some news source, ET, CNN, or Nolan's blog, etc) and the second sentence would also end with a superscript number that would coordinate to a reference likely to IMDB.  That way, as you've mentioned, if writers are projecting incorrect information, the readers can look it up for themselves and make their own judgements on the legitimacy of the source. 
 
Also, when it comes to the copy editing, I don't know if it has been fixed yet, but one of the things that turned me towards speaking about plagiarism was a wiki entry on Venom that was horribly written because the writer had completely copied the Marvel entry on Venom and then incorrectly changed every third word or so making it a jumbled mess.  I thought about correcting the English, but then realized that would probably just make it exactly like the Marvel entry and didn't feel like I had the time to re-write the entry from start to finish considering all the research I would have had to do to make sure it was both right and in my own words.  In the end, I felt like without citation, it just wasn't going to cut it.
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#5  Edited By OrionStarlancer
@Red L.A.M.P.: @Red L.A.M.P. said:
" @OrionStarlancer: We don't want people going to Wikipedia and re-wording or plagiarizing them for articles here.  Besides I'd say at this point we have more detailed info about comic books than any wiki/database.   Anyone who writes articles for the wiki should be reading the comics they are writing about. "
RedLAMP,  you presented some important arguments here so I want to take a moment to address all of them so I can explain why I think a citation function is important and how it could keep Whiskey media from getting in lots of legal trouble down the road while simultaneously helping to legitimize your site and teach the users an important lesson on how to handle such information. 
  
 I absolutely agree that people should not be going to Wikipedia, Marvel.com, DC.com, DC or Marvel encyclopedias, etc and re-wording or plagiarizing in any way that doesn't properly give credit to the original source, but that doesn't mean it's not happening and it doesn't mean that wanting it not to happen is going to prevent it.  I agree that there is a lot of information here, but I also think it is a little unrealistic to assume every wiki editor will do research by buying or renting every single comic necessary to edit or create a page.  Additionally, using comics themselves as a source is fine, but it's still information the reader didn't necessarily know previous to writing the entry, thus making it plagiarism if the information is referenced without proper citation. 
  
COMMON KNOWLEDGE
When you say "Anyone who writes articles for the wiki should be reading the comics they are writing about," you are referring to the use of common knowledge to a specific field. For instance, if you and I hang out and read Spider-Man comics together and talk about them all the time to the point you and I know this stuff down pat and don't need to reference any books to discuss it, it becomes common knowledge to our group.  The same can be said of a certain scientific fields where certain concepts, like the formula for calculating the acceleration of an object as it falls due to gravity, is something the students or lab techs no longer to find sources for if they wish to discuss it in a paper. 
 
WHY THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR COMICVINE 
I think why this is a problem here, is simply because we can't expect 100% of the editors to be comic scholars in this fashion.  It's a nice idea, but it limits your writer base in a way you shouldn't.  For instance, if I were to add a detail to the Scarlet Spider wiki, but couldn't remember whether or not Ben ever ended up sleeping with Mary Jane in any of the plot lines and decided to look it up on an official Marvel source or in one of their encyclopedias, I'd like to and should show that I used a source to find that tidbit of info, even if it came from a specific comic.  It might  be as simple as making a reference to the issue number, or it might be a reference to Marvel.com.   
  
SO MANY COMICS.
If I'm expected to know all of this info prior to writing anything, however, it limits how and what I can write.  Not to mention, researching the info is healthy since what I remember from reading so many different comics might be wrong or the history might have shifted so research is necessary to gather and use the facts (and that is, after all what wiki entries are--research papers).  This idea is particularly highlighted by a wiki entry on, say, Spider-Man where there must be literally thousands of different comics all creating different stories, plot-lines, and relationship dynamics.  Of course, I can always edit what I already know and leave the rest for someone else, but that leaves an incomplete product where a complete product could have been finished with some research and properly showing where the sources came from. 
 
LEGAL IMPLICATIONS 
Plagiarism is the intentional or unintentional use of any one else's words or ideas without proper citation whether or not the ideas are summarized or used in exact language.  This is largely an academic offense which gets students bad grades or, in extreme examples, thrown out of college.  The same kind of ethic in the work place could get a person fired or severely reprimanded through litigation.  Comicvine probably isn't at that risk, but considering that you now charge for some memberships, it is possible that a big publisher like Marvel might see a heavily plagiarized page as a copyright violation and determine that you're selling their ideas and then demand a portion of the earnings.  It might sound like a stretch, but Marvel has a specific link on their website to report the improper use of their material and as big of a company that they are (especially considering their owners, Disney) just assume that they have waaaaaaaay more resources to pour into a killer team of lawyers than you do.  In essence, just don't tempt them. 
 
FINAL REQUEST 
So here's my final request.  There's nothing wrong with people referencing other sources to help legitimize the nature of the information in their entry, in fact, having sources to back up an argument or story are the staple of good work in the work place and in academia every day, so long as the information is somehow properly cited.  Wikipedia cites sources, so there's no reason people should be upset if you do too (and Wikipedia also does it to keep from getting sued, though the population that could sue them is much much bigger so it's even more important).  Wikipedia uses footnotes to avoid cluttering up the article itself, and to provide the sources at the bottom of the page for people to reference for additional reading.  Comicvine is a fantastic place to get all sorts of info on just about every comic ever written, but there's no reason why people shouldn't be able to learn where everyone else is learning about comics.  Lastly, showing sources actually makes your wiki stronger because it shows outside sources that the editors aren't just making it up and they consulted move official sources in the process.
 
So, anyway, I agree that people should have a general knowledge of these things before diving in, but there should be both realistic and legal room to let them learn more and immediately use that information to improve the feel and presentation of the wiki entries on this site.  
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OrionStarlancer

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#6  Edited By OrionStarlancer
@Red L.A.M.P.: Do you think you could take a moment (and admittedly I didn't read the entire thread) to address how you want people to use borrowed information since realistically, everyone is going to have to use some borrowed information in order to complete this task.  I mentioned citation as a way to avoid plagiarism before, but you'd have to be pretty clear on how you want that done and whether or not you want any foot notes at the bottom listing sources as wikipedia does or in-text citations, etc . . . .  I can explain this more fully if you like, otherwise I'd like to hear your thoughts.  Thanks.
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#7  Edited By OrionStarlancer

OMG.  This video was made for me, I swear.  I love it.  I should show this to my students this summer. 
 
Oh and Carmina Burana.  Where would soundtracks be without you?

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#8  Edited By OrionStarlancer

The worst part of this episode by far was when Gregor so easily ripped the Cape of Vince and started using it for his own.  If that thing is so easily stolen, I foresee major major problems.

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#9  Edited By OrionStarlancer

Dammit, Sara.  I've been planning on writing on this very thing for months!!!  You just beat me to it.  :) To answer the question, I would imagine that comics, like all written works, are in danger of going extinct from the print world. I think comics will hold out longer than books because of the visual aspects of the art, but eventually, they too will inevitably be on readers or on computers.  This, I think, is sadder for comics than for only textual based writing because the beautiful two page drawings or even fold out illustrations as shown in the last installment of The Ultimates by Mark Millar or even Witchblade or The Darkness, would be minimized and lose their effect.  An ipad simply can't replicate this visual effect in size or in texture. Perhaps one element of hope actually comes through the visual aspects of comics considering that we would be unlikely as a community to close museums and galleries with visual arts and paintings and substitute a data file in their place, yet thinking of comics encased in a museum or art gallery has its own set of frightening implications.
 
I did notice, however, that if people go onto Amazon.com and look up a comic they would enjoy reading, there's a button that says "I'd like to read this on a kindle." If you click it, the site will remember.  Perhaps with enough votes, Amazon will consider making a color Kindle more friendly to comic readers, yet the reading screen of the Kindle remains to be considerably smaller than a page of a comic book.   Otherwise, there is a color nook, but that only works with books bought through Barnes and Noble, a company suffering similarly to Borders and therefore, perhaps a risky buy. Then there's the ipad, which is a fantastic toy, but it's backlit which will make it hard to look at for hours and hours (unlike the Kindle) and it's a whopping $500-$700.  Yikes!  Additionally, reading comics on a computer screen often gives you a zoom option to remedy the size difference, but this is largely awful and difficult to navigate when just looking at a print copy would suffice.
 
Ultimately, I don't know what will happen to comics and I would imagine a Kindle is probably in my future since my library of books is too enormous to continue moving different places.  For comics, however, I'm willing to hold out and continue to buy hard copies until that is no longer practical or a digital option becomes close enough in presentation to read though I'm very interested in what the rest of you are planning.

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#10  Edited By OrionStarlancer

Have you all seen this original trailer for Rare Exports that inspired the current movie about Santa Claus?  You have to check it out because it's so well made.