onilordasmodeus

@aystarr:I conceded mass, that was all.

now that there's an agreement there, that means he would have a harder time trying to defend or evade her attacks , as they can overwhelm his power and the scale would require him to put more effort into evading it.

This right here, is a HUGE leap in logic. Again, Sub defeated Fujin AFTER he created a huge tornado. Sub has defeated armies...meaning he has no issue defending from multiple angles. Sub has far more experience on the battlefield, and has WAY more battlefield awareness that she does. Katara can do LITERALLY NOTHING that Sub hasn't seen before on multiple occasions or has mastered himself.

Furthermore, his power is beyond her. Sure she can move a large mass of water, but what will she do when the literal air she's breathing is frozen?

1. AOE Attacks. You seems lack a true understanding of why I conceded the "mass" point with Katara...becasue it literally doesn't matter. Subzero can literally drop the temperature in the area...drastically, and as far as I know, Katara can still freeze.

In the new MK movie (and I hate to go here, but composite right?) Subzero made it snow...in July. He affected an entire city street from hundreds of feet away. He made the restaurant windows freeze, and then made an outdoor restaurant table freeze over (a precise target mind you).

Subzero can control the cold with in his general vicinity. Not water, not air, but the actual thermodynamics of the space surrounding him.

Sub is immune to the cold, meaning his body can function with no to minimal heat. Can you say the same for Katara? Beyond just making it so cold that her body cannot function, he can literally flash freeze EVERYTHING in his general vicinity.

Katara has no concept of how his powers work, or how to contend with them. And again, he can use the air to form his weapons (dry ice) which Katara has no ability to bend.

2. Back to speed. Katara aim-dodged one lightning strike, while MK characters react to and block Raiden's lightning casually.

And FYI, Raiden's lightning is legit...

The general speed of MK characters is beyond Katara. And while you can try and down play Subzero's teleportation (and thus other MK characters as well), as I displayed in my previous post, he is too fast for her.

3. Durability. You can say whatever you want about the factory feat, regardless, it happened. So how would she contend with his shield? Blades, whips, whatever she throws at him he can block. Sub's defense is beyond her.

But even if she does connect, she lacks the attack potency to do any real damage. Again, Sub was caught point blank in the explosions of multiple missiles, not to mention the other explosives he was hit with, and there was no shield there.

Again, those missiles were seen blowing up buildings, shipping containers, and even caused a cave in (which Sub was caught in, and his ice shield was able to protect him and Scorpion from).

3. I'm skipping over Combustion Man. He is irrelevant, and your comments about general bending in Avatar vs powers in MK is equally benign. Sure there are plenty of powerful benders in Avatar, but they hold nothing to the top line in MK.

4. Did you actually just type that "who subzero beat doesn't really matter"? Really? Ok.

To end this, Katara is human...Subzero is more than human. At base (because keep in mind, all the strength, energy projection, and durability feats I've shows were of him PRIOR to him receiving the Dragon Medallion and his Cryomancer Armor) he is more powerful than any human shown in Avatar.

@aystarr: I want to start this post off by first saying that I conceded in my first post that Katara can move more mass than Sub can. She is a water bender, so making large waves and the like is kind of her thing. That being said, Katara looses in MANY areas when up against Sub.

Just think about this...if Scorpion wanted to kill Katara, could he?

1. CQC (combat skill and physical strength)

Some people are conceding that Katara would loose up close to Sub and I appreciate that (you all can see the facts here). Up close it is not a contest. I literally don't think she can physically hit hard enough that Sub would feel it. On the other hand, if Sub lays one hand on her the fight is over. Straight facts.

2. Speed and mobility

You showed Katara surfing on the water, both over a large body of water, and over land with a limited supply of water. Both decent showing of her mobility. That being said, she is too slow. Subzero can slide both on land, and through the air (like Iceman).

This is on top of being able to teleport.

...but Sub also fights other teleporters on the regular, reacting to them and attacking accordingly.

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Katara has NEVER fought someone with Sub's skill set, let alone his speed and reaction time.

3. Durability

*clears throat* Subzero has literally stood in the middle of an exploding Lin Kuei factory/facility, and walked out unscathed...

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You say that "Combustion Man" would easily destroy Subzero's constructs...what about destroying subzero?

Subzero has stood up to 3000 degree heat with no issue, been hit point blank with multiple missiles (see previous post), been cut, stabbed, and skewered, and at best it has all slowed him for a time. Katara CANNOT keep Sub at bay. When he wants to get in, he will.

30 feet away? He'll blitz her and there is literally NOTHING she can do about it.

4. Experience

Notable Subzero victories:

• Scorpion
• Earth's Water God
• Earth's Fire God
• Earth's Wind God
• Cyrax and Sektor

This is just a VERY short list of characters that Sub has defeated. As much as you may want to praise Katara, she'd die in any battle against any of these characters. She doesn't have the speed and reaction time to keep up, the durability to stay alive long enough to even come up with a plan, nor the training or experience to win.

Katara looses a battle against Subzero in astonishing fashion.

Edit:

One other thing, if you had to explain how Katara creates ice, how would you do it? I mean, essentially she can control all forms of water right? So she just shifts the molecular structure of the water or something right? You do realize that Subzero's powers are different do you not? Subzero controls the element of COLD, or rather, he can push the heat out of any object, and can also throw cold energy (he's an cold energy bender, lol!).

People are trying to say that Katara can use his ice against him and I'd propose she cannot. Sub can essentially use any type of ice...including dry ice, over which Katara has NO ability to bend. Subzero is hella versatile with his abilities, able to flash freeze whole areas...

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and, again, even freeze the air.

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@jdogg: Subzero has more control than she does. He can actually turn himself in to ice...not COVER himself in ice, but become ice.

Katara doesn't have that type of control.

I'm willing to go with this train of thought, if it goes both ways. Katara can his ice as water, and he can use her water as ice.

@killianduclark: @aystarr: @syncroniam: @scarlet_wiccan: @king_isshiki:

Give me one feat that would put Katara over Subzero. Pleeeease!!!

Edit:

I kind of want to help this along as I REALLY want someone who actually believes that Katara could win, to actually post something to prove their case.

Sub beats Katara in speed, durability, skill, experience, versatility...just about every category. About the only thing I may give to Katara is the amount of mass she can move at one time, but honestly, that is neither here nor there. On just speed and durability alone she looses this match...and it isn't even a contest.

Speed:

In Subzero's Injustice 2 super (below @ 1:18), you can see him hit his opponent so hard that they fly horizontal to the other side of the screen, but he is so fast that he can teleport to the opposite side (DBZ style) and have enough time to reappear, summon more ice, and pelt his opponent with enough icicles to slow them down in mid air, and then hit them again.

Durability:

In the Battle for the Realms movie, in just about every fight that Subzero is in he is hit with a missile either point blank, or in his general vicinity...

These missiles are seen destroying buildings, shipping containers, stone walls, bridges, and pillars. And at one point they cause a cave in. Subzero shrugs each blast off with ease and continues the hunt for his prey.

Strength:

This is more for fun, as Katara has NO CHANCE of defeating Subzero up close in CQC. He is just on a different level than her in physical strength. Couple that with his speed and she dies before she knows the fight has even started.

Honestly, there is to much to post, but to get started...

LOL! Subzero easy. No contest. Any version.

My money would be on Oro.

This is a mismatch.

Shang is awesome, but Thor is just a different level of strength and durability. Shang MIGHT be able to punch Thor hard enough to make him think twice, but Thor would just turn Shang into paste if he was actually serious.

@uchihaghost: The new chapter comes out in a few hours. There may be more to discuss in the afternoon.

Agreed.