onilordasmodeus's forum posts

#1 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@sky_watch: Needs more info...

  1. Which Subzero is this? You have the MKX Sub pictured but we don't even know who he is or what he can officially do. He is officially feat-less at this point due to MKX not having been release at this time yet. So, is this Bi Han, or is this Kuai Liang that we are talking about?
  2. Are we only using feats and abilities from MK Mythologies, the Official MK1 comic, and MK9 only, or can the alt-timeline feats and abilities be used as well.
  3. Can the Malibu comic feats be used (this only really applies to Bi Han if he is the Sub being used here)?

#2 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus: DC Ares doesn't need worshipers. The fight alone would make him stronger, every blow made, the violence and so on. Also Ares can soul steal too and if this is them at full power as you are assuming, then DC Ares has the Godwave in which he just blinkstomps.

Also one hit from this Ares, is gonna do some serious damage as he was able to fell Herakles with a single blow. Also with Ares being the God of War and being able to even outsmart Metron, I'm more than sure he'd be able to work something up in getting close to Kahn and take him out.

That is of course Kahn even decides to stay out of range, he just seems more of a close fighter more than anything, so it seems to me this would come down to H2H.

My understanding of Ares is that he does need worshipers to keep up his power levels, but then again I may be somewhat out of date with my understanding of the character and his feats. Also, I know the battle will strengthen him, but by how much is in question from my perspective. Will the battle strengthen him enough to match the power Kahn gets form Outworld? IDK. But I question his ability to "blinkstomp" Kahn as in Outworld Kahn is characterized as being essentially omnipresent. Couple that with Kahn's ability to read intentions and thoughts, and his immense magical power, and I think he can hold his own against Ares in terms of though processes and magical attacks.

Also, in MK9 when Kahn was pretty fresh went up against Raiden and literally laughed at Raiden's EG empowered lightning attack. At that time Kahn was essentially pushed passed all other levels due to the Outworld / Earth merger being completed, but this is the only time you see Kahn fight while essentially being on Outworld soil, other than MK2 when he fought in the tournament, or the non-canon comics. I have little to no doubt that Kahn, with effort, can block or negate Ares' magical attacks at his normal levels while in Outworld.

#3 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm making these assumptions off the bases that both fighters are at full power, in character, and have no knowledge of each other...

Round one:

In hand to hand I think Kahn and Marvel Ares are equal...though Ares would have the strength advantage. Kahn would have his magic though, which is incredibly powerful, and since his magical skill seriously out classes Ares I think Kahn would have an edge over all in straight up combat. That being said though, this fight takes place on Earth, and on Earth Kahn isn't / can't be at full power as he is somewhat vulnerable.

At the end of the day I think Ares would win this fight just because of his immortality and regen factor. An argument can be made that Kahn's magic is strong enough to take Ares' soul, but seeing as Ares is an extremely strong opponent, very experienced and very skilled, and how Kahn is out side of his realm, I'm not so sure Kahn will get the opportunity needed to take him.

Marvel Ares: 8/10

Round two:

The fact that DC Ares can fight WW straight up says a lot. Against Kahn, Ares definitely has the physical strength advantage and the physical speed advantage too, but I'm not so sure about how their magic stacks up against each other, or his combat reaction times, and his durability / regen factor; BUT...this fight takes place in Outworld.

Seeing as this fight takes place in Outworld, Ares would be the invader in Kahn's realm, and Kahn is the ultimate power in his domain. As such, Kahn is empowered by Outworld, and IF Ares still has his Olympian powers in Outworld, I think it would be a serious fight all around.

First off Kahn would do what he does and straight up attack Ares in h2h combat. At that point Kahn would realize that how fast and strong Ares really is, and he would be forced to use his magic more. If Kahn and Ares had a magic duel I think it would be pretty even. The smart thing to do on Ares' part would be for him to pressure Kahn in close, and try to make his way in to engage in h2h to use his obvious advantage (strength and speed), but with Kahn's reaction time (at least equal to Ares) he'd be able to use his TK and soul manipulation to keep / make distance and deal damage.

As this fight draws on though, Kahn would keep his strength and magical power (if not get stronger as the fight goes on), while Ares would really be loosing power due to having no worshipers, being directly drained by Kahn, and only gaining strength from the conflict at hand. With Kahn's his power to soul suck opponents and read their thoughts and intentions, Kahn should be able to gain a heavy advantage and make this fight pretty one-sided after some time. Overall I think this fight would be a very long and drawn out battle with Kahn gaining the advantage near then end, which would ultimately end with him taking Ares' soul.

Shao Kahn: 7/10

#4 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman wins.

#5 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm kind of leaning towards Ultron as well.

#6 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:

Harley Quinn due to actual feats..

beating Subzero, Raiden(I still question this), and then Kitana and Jade simultaneously aren't feats?

I love Sonya, but to be honest I think those feats are more PIS than anything else. Don't get me wrong, she is amazingly skilled, but she's not beating Bi Han 1v1, nor Raiden, and I think at best she would just survive / hold her own against a combined attack from Kitana and Jade if they were fighting straight up.

On topic, I think Sonya would win just because she is a military trained soldier, who is one of the strongest fighters on her earth. I think Harley's biggest pro in this fight is the fact that she is crazy, and thus very unpredictable, but Sonya has extremely good reaction times in combat, and was said to have a skill level close to Liu Kang specifically in regards to her being able to use a version of the bicycle kick like he can.

#7 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22:

1) liu kang can "hold hold his own" against bats and dick, so could countless other MK characters. Your point / ABC logic is moot.

2) again, I don't need to define, or rather redefine, terms for you. You're a smart guy. Look them up if you don't know what they mean, or just think about them in context and figure it out.

3) a. You're making stuff up. You don't need to, but for some reason you are making up rules. Please stop.

B. MK mythologies was overwritten? Again, you're making stuff up. Do I really need to screen cap your past agreements with on this? Just stop.

C. Make the thread, or maybe I will. No! I've got an idea, let's do a cav and let people vote! Are you down?

D. :o) sure.

E. Shang has beaten kenshi (off panel), and fought Shujinko to a draw pre-MK9. I don't have time to post links at the moment, but ehh...maybe I'll take the time. There's more examples, I just don't have the time.

Finally... LOLOLOL! I'm making empty assertions (??), when it has been you who has offered no proof...rather hasn't even attempted to make a real argument FOR the side you represent? Stop being the contrarian you so love to be, and start actually debating the substance of the thread rather than...really...arguing for nothing of substance at all.

#8 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

You just refuses to take the OP and Battle Forums rules into consideration when making an argument. I shouldn't respond to you but I'm going to get you the benefit of a doubt, but as soon as you start behaving inappropriately I'm out of this thread.

1. We are using Shang Tsung in his current incarnation, and based off his most recent bio he is alluded to being several centuries in age. So, they have been alive for comparable number of years, but we have no reason to believe that longevity has conferred to either of them a substantial increase in skills especially when both have been defeated by fighters who have only a small fraction of their experience.

2. You need to provide some definition of the words "strength" and "ability" because they can have multiple connotations, so saying that this gives him peak human capabilities which is 1) a stretch because we don't know the increments in which his physical stats are increased per soul, 2) the words have multiple connotations, therefore, making them a little ambiguous, and 3) you are equivocating with the term peak human. What I mean by the Point #3 is that just because the Mortal Kombat Universe has there own category for peak humans doesn't mean that the criteria for deciding which category to put something in is the same as how the DC Universe categorizes them.

"It is true that he doesn't get someone's skill by simply mimicking them, but when he actually takes there soul he can access their fighting abilities, skills, powers, strengths, memories, experiences, and whatever else; he essentially becomes them." If this is true why would Smoke say that he wouldn't have Sub-Zero's skills by morphing into him. The Elder Sub-Zero was a causality in the Tournament meaning that Shang Tsung would have had access to his soul, and he never disputed Smoke's claim either.

3. a) As I have stated before PIS and CIS isn't a term applicable to the video game genre, and even if that was the case what about that showing against Kung Lao makes it PIS? Shang Tsung hasn't shown anything in the way of capabilities that would make us question the merits of that showing, so the only justification in my opinion someone would have for making that assertion is a presupposition in Shang Tsung's favor before the outcome of the fight.

b) Pre-Mortal Kombat 9 isn't relevant to this battle since we are using Shang Tsung's most current incarnation, so talking about a power boost in Mortal Kombat 3 is off-topic here.

c) You couldn't post a single feat to show that Liu Kang is comparable to Batman let alone Kung Lao. Those characters would have trouble fighting a single fodder Talon, and 2 Talons were shown to be skilled enough to do this fight and hold there own against all of the freed metahuman prisoners at Arkham. Liu Kang and Kung Lao have no comparable feats. Batman showings against the Talons from the Court of the Owls is far beyond anything that either of those characters have done.

d) Mortal Kombat 2 isn't relevant to this incarnation.

e) His magic hasn't give him a win over anyone note-worthy, so why doesn't it become an important factor now?

I missed you too Nick. Lol!

1) I'm not 100% sure which version we are using for either character, or what is in or out as the OP didn't state. If you would like to post some feats for Ra's to PROVE that Shang it not in his league though, please go right ahead. Regardless though, Shang's MK9 bio says "centuries", where the MK Mythologies story alludes to millennia. Both are relevant, both are official, and both are canon under CV rules as is. So yeah...his age and thus amount of experience is ultimately in question.

2) I don't need to further define those terms as they mean what they mean. Shang is at least peak human in speed and strength at base, and depending on the form he can out class Ra's physical stats at least 5 times over (most likely much more than that though).

"It is true that he doesn't get someone's skill by simply mimicking them, but when he actually takes there soul he can access their fighting abilities, skills, powers, strengths, memories, experiences, and whatever else; he essentially becomes them." If this is true why would Smoke say that he wouldn't have Sub-Zero's skills by morphing into him. The Elder Sub-Zero was a causality in the Tournament meaning that Shang Tsung would have had access to his soul, and he never disputed Smoke's claim either.

Shang never took Bi Han's soul as Bi Han died in the Netherrealm where Quan Chi twisted his soul into Noob Siabot. Shang never "became" Subzero, he simply mimicked Bi Han's look and powers, but did not have his skill as he did not take his soul.

3) a. blah, blah, blah. PIS and/or CIS be applied to any medium of story telling. Videogames are not a special case in this regard.

b. Shang Tsung's actions pre-MK9 are wholly relevant as they are a part of his character. Shang was a champion of Mortal Kombat, he was the leader of Shao Kahn's sorcerers (goes to magical skill), and he has defeated and absorbed thousands of warriors in his extended lifetime. You cannot disregard these things, even though you may want to.

c. Depending on the timeline and the circumstances of the fight, I most definitely could. :o)

d. :o) MK2 Shang and MK9 Shang are the same / equal. You may not like that, but it is a fact.

e. Shang Tsung's magic IS him; he and it are one in the same. You can't divorce him from his sorcery and say it hasn't given him any wins, as Shang Tsung physically strengthens his body, expands his mind, and replenishes his soul, through to magic. It is central to his character and accomplishments. To say Shang Tsung's magic hasn't given him a win is wholly inaccurate.

Regardless, at the end of the day an MK battle is far different than a Bat-family battle with Ra's. MK characters hit harder, move faster, have lived longer, and experienced more on average...on top of just being more powerful than the levels which you are trying to limit them to here.

Shang would kill Ra's in the end. Hmmm...my vote goes for Shang making him rip his own head off...

#9 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

1) Shang Tsung has been around for a few centuries, while Ra's Al Ghul has been around for some millenia.

2) He doesn't get a physical enhancement in general from those souls, and he has to morph into those respective souls in order to use their abilities if they have any at all. Shang Tsung doesn't get their skills by consuming their souls either from what I recall in his fight with Smoke, where Shang Tsung morphed into Sub-Zero and Smoke told something along the lines that morphing into Sub-Zero won't give him his skills. I'm sorry, but I call BS in regards to Shang Tsung's strength and speed. Outside of gameplay mechanics and non-canon mini-games Shang Tsung has been portrayed as having the physical stats of a normal human when it comes to cutscenes in the game, while on the other hand Ra's Al Ghul has been able to fight both Batman and Nightwing who are the pinnacle of human fitness (they have the feats to back that up).

3) It's PIS if there are others feats that show the contrary of the feat in question, but no such feats exist for Shang Tsung. He was a punching bag for most of the cast in the game, and the only feat he really has is invading the Wu Shi Academy with a small army of Tarkatans and briefly fighting Raiden in hand-to-hand combat before running away. The terms PIS and CIS aren't really applicable to the video genre since creative teams don't rotate around unlike comics where different creative teams come in and out of different series.

Shang Tsung loses pretty soundly here, but if he utilizes his sorcery well there is a chance he could give Ra's some work.

1) It is unclear how old Shang Tsung is definitively as some mediums allude to him being around before Kahn took Edenia, which would mean he is more than 10,000 years old, where some other instances would suggest that he is only a few centuries old as you said. Bottom line though is that through Shang's soul absorption he has "lived" thousands of lives, and had many more life experiences than Ra's has.

2) "The Sorcerer Shang Tsung is cursed to consume the souls of defeated warriors in order to stay alive. From these souls he attains greater strength and ability. It could be said that his fighting skill is the culmination of those he has conquered."

http://www.mksecrets.net/mkda/eng/mkda-konquest.php#Shang Tsung

Shang Tsung's magic makes him peak human in normal form, and in certain forms he becomes superhuman. It is true that he doesn't get someone's skill by simply mimicking them, but when he actually takes there soul he can access their fighting abilities, skills, powers, strengths, memories, experiences, and whatever else; he essentially becomes them. If Shang chose to fight by just mimicking another fighter to attempt to get into his opponents head, that is him dicking around. When Shang fights for real, he uses all his tools, which includes using multiple fighting styles, the various souls he's taken, mimicking other people abilities, on top of reading your soul, and mimicking and using your own tactics/abilities against you.

I have no doubt in my mind that Ra's is incredibly adept in combat, and would probably give Shang a helluva physical fight, but like was said earlier in this thread, Shang's magic is what nets him the win here.

3) Shang Tsung and Quan Chi loosing to Kung Lao in MK9 was wholly PIS, just like how Sonya "defeated" Raiden, on top of beating both Kitana and Jade simultaneously. MK9 did that a few times where they went off the MK lore rails in order to just make a fight. That being said, during that fight both Quan and Shang were not at their most powerful forms in the series. When Shang beat Liu in the OG timeline he had the boost that Kahn gave him in MK3, the boost Kahn gave Sindel near the end of MK9, on top of the fact that Quan had Shinnok's Amulet which increased his power.

Also, Kung Lao (depending on at which point in the timeline you are talking about), could take Batman in a physical fight. Sure Bats would outsmart him by using the environment if the fight was just anything goes, but in terms of h2h skill, and natural ability, Kung Lao alone blows the "Bat-family" out of the water.

Regardless, at what power level Shang is at in this fight is up to the TC, but if we are just going of the pic that he TC included then Shang is capped at his MK2/MK9 power level...which is still very strong and beyond a "normal" human at base.

- Official MK2 comic

...on top of his magic being extremely potent...

Again, I just don't think Ra's has the ability to contend with Shang on this level.

#10 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2544 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1:

Mac has more raw strength than Hanzo, but Hanzo has WAY more striking power than Mac. Both of them have superhuman durability, though Mac is outright more durable, where Hanzo relies more on regeneration. Regardless, if Mac can get a clean shot on Hanzo, Hanzo will be "hurt" but not out of the fight; but if Hanzo lands a clean shot on Mac...he'd be dead. Couple that with Hanzo's speed and I think Hanzo wins this in a fairly one-sided fashion. Still though, I have to say that I think Mac, with his enhanced reflexes and "scorpion sense" could probably keep up for a bit, but I think in the end Scorpion would just overwhelm him.

This is all without even bringing up the fact that Hanzo can just teleport Mac to the Netherrealm and just leave him there, thus netting an easy BFR win.

Round 2:

Same as round one really. Scorpion's sword I don't think makes much difference here, as it's his overall skill and powers that make him a threat. At the end of the day though, I don't know what Mac feats against cutting weapons are, and further more, I don't know what magical properties Hanzo's sword really have, and thus what effect that would have vs. Mac's durability. Again, I see this as just a repeat of round 1.

Round 3:

I think Mac and Hanzo win this 10/10 times. Mac could just crush the Albino Radscorpions, where Hanzo could definitely just slice through them. Not a real fight or challenge if you ask me.