okayla's forum posts
I think DC needed less Bruce Wayne books and more diversity in gender, sexuality, and race. But oh well, I might as well wish for a pony.
Anyway, for what it's worth - let's hope DC hires some good PR machine from now on out. I like comics, and I want the reboot to succeed, but they need to refresh their attitudes like they're refreshing their books!
Nope. I said it wasn't necessarily progressive since traditional sex appeal and stuff holds true, it'd be more 'progressive' of them to have a gay male character.You were saying that Les/Bi leads dont count as female perspective characters
And I was continuing with this:
Im pretty sure Voodoo has always been Bisexual don't know much about her but I'm pretty sure they aren't afriad to do a lesbien female hero lead (Batwoman ^^) If you mean bisexual male characters then you have a point.
That was my point, DC isn't really progressive with female bisexuality/lesbians because that's pretty much all they have. They might have one or two gay male characters, but they certainly don't ever really highlight them and the numbers certainly compare to their female versions.
Alch, dude, you're were not being necessarily being clear yourself in the post that confused me.
The what-on-earth-where you saying bit from me was because i could not understand what you were trying to say. You weren't 'clearly talking about' anything.
I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I never said straight characters rock the boat more, I said:I think your assuming of the Bi/Les characters is flat out wrong, Its stupid to assume that straight characters 'rock the boat' more and thats why they stay away from them, your looking for a fault that isn't there. Traditional sex appeal is your other reasoning for Bi/Les?
I think they're more comfortable with pushing bi/les females because they tend to have more traditional sex appeal and don't rock the boat that much.
To break that down for you, bisexual and lesbian women are easier to market because they have more traditional sex appeal and are not as controversial as their male counterparts, and I think that's why they have less gay or bisexual male characters.
I'm getting really sick of Jim Lee's idiotic impractical boot designs.
But other than that, this is like the least offensive of his redesigns.
I don't like the spiky gloves, nor the Bat-ended boots. Getting a little sick of the body armour detailing on so many costumes.
I'm not a big fan of Jim Lee's designs tbh.
Gay men characters do rock the boat more than lesbians do in terms of general media, yes. That's why we have songs like "I Kissed a Girl" but guys can't hug without screaming no-homo at each other.
Traditional sex appeal is your other reasoning for Bi/Les? Just because they like other women doesn't make it the same as straight men, not at all, your generlizing the sexuality of a group of women, its slightly appauling that you'd do that
What on earth are you saying? It's not my idea that bi/lesbian characters should be used for sex appeal, but they often are in Western media and it's a little naive to think otherwise. It's considered more acceptable and 'hot' to have two girls together, where there's an 'ew' mentality that I see on these very boards if you talk about gay guys together. If you think DC isn't aware of that, you're incredibly innocent.
What kind of response did you want from "why isn't there more female creators involed in this relaunch?" (by my count asked each time at these panels, so 3) Did you expect "We tryed" "We got rejected" "They we're busy" ? What can you say without making your product that your trying to sell sound sub-par?
Um, any sort of blanket PR statement would have been better than being rude. Jesus, how hard is it to say:
"You know, that's something we could improve upon and we're looking to do so! We've talked to several women creators, including A, B, and C, and while they're not involved with our September reboot (Which is gonna be fantastic, guys), we look forward to having a more diverse team in the future. In fact, we'd love to see more submissions at our portfolio reviews from female artists! You can find out information on how to apply on the DC website, just check under submissions 00 We know you're out there guys, and I know that I've personally seen some fantastic work online from our female readers. Hopefully in the future that'll translate to an even more diverse team than ours right now, but we're working on that. In the meantime, why don't you check out Gail Simone's Batgirl? We know it's a bit of a controversial book, but Gail Simone is outstanding and I think this book might surprise you."
Dang, I mean, I thought of that in five seconds. It's not that hard to not be a jerk and dismiss someone at the same time.
I think they're more comfortable with pushing bi/les females because they tend to have more traditional sex appeal and don't rock the boat that much.
You cut out my Red Hood bit showing that they do like getting responses like when they wanted female creator names the fans wanted a few questions back.
Yeah, I did, I didn't gt your point. That they were being cute alluding to the upcoming reboot when we didn't know? And the 'wanting female creator names' sound more like them coming back at her rudely in every report i've read, not a genuine desire for her answer. Every report I've read has made it clear they weren't actually looking for her to respond, they just wanted her to shut up.
he doesn't do the hireing and he probably assumed they did take submissions (they might be now, its not the first time i've heard that at these Dc Panels)
As far as I am aware, as someone going into the comic industry and who is going to university for it - you either know somebody, or you have to know somebody.
On their website (for several years);
Submissions By Mail and Email
At this time, DC Comics does not accept unsolicited artwork or writing submissions.
Only artists get a chance, and that's for a limited space portfolio review at certain conventions. For writers, there's nothing.
Grant would know how it goes, because that's how it's always gone.
I'm sorry you feel like they were acting like jerks, could they have done the PR better? Sure. But I think they did a solid job with it, they're just writers. But it does get annoying when people want to talk about hiring when they're on a PR tour for the comics they're creating.
Yes, but I want comics to do well and they suck at fighting their own stigma. The report of their dismissive attitude towards that lady has gotten 500 notes (comments, reblogs, likes) in less than 24 hours on Tumblr. When your superhero comic books are hitting the middle 30k, and your top-sellers barely cracking 100,000 these days -- you can't afford to piss off hundreds. It might be annoying, but it's your job to play nice and soothe fears - not irritate and infuriate. These are your paying customers, and it's bad business to act like you are doing them a favour.
Im pretty sure Voodoo has always been Bisexual don't know much about her but I'm pretty sure they aren't afriad to do a lesbien female hero lead (Batwoman ^^) If you mean bisexual male characters then you have a point.
That was my point, DC isn't really progressive with female bisexuality/lesbians because that's pretty much all they have. They might have one or two gay male characters, but they certainly don't ever really highlight them and the numbers certainly compare to their female versions. For what it's worth, I do think they've done a fantastic job with those female characters; the handling of Renee's outing in Gotham Central and the whole DADT part of Batwoman's history was really well-researched and interestingly shown, and I have huge respect for Greg Rucka. It's just painfully inequal and their attitude about it is a little bit dismissive and illhandled.
It's sexist to assume males use comics as "fap fodder", its offence, degrading and immature, I think I was pretty clear before
I wasn't saying that all guys use comics for is to masturbate, but at the same time it's not true to pretend that there aren't people buying it for just that reason. Just like there is some stupid fangirl buying it to see if Tim and Kon are going to make out. Cheesecake is the female equivilant of beefcake, that is, pin-up art, that is, why Catwoman's breast is out on the interior pages! It's okay to do this sort of thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with it- hell, some of my favourite comic artists are those from the old Playboy days. But you can't be so naive to think that those pictures are not meant to entice and cause sexual attraction rather than for story-purpose. Now, Is every comic like this? Of course not. Does every dude read comics for that reason? Nope, not even close. I wouldn't count Supergirl's cover as cheesecake at all, even if she's skimply dressed - it's nothing about her pose and stuff that suggests it. But everything we've seen of Catwoman is well in that territory. Is that okay? Yeah, of course. But when someone like that is asking about female characters on cover, she's not really talking about pin-up art.
I guess they could of clearly stated that they did talk to a bunch of female creators but as you said they're on a PR tour, they want to make it sound like they're involving their customers in these choices.
You mean actually make a point instead of needlessly pissing off a selection of your ever-shrinking fanbase? They're on a PR tour, which means playing nice and informing people. It's not really involving customers to say "GIVE US WORK (even though we don't accept work like that...)" and to be rude to them.
I'm sure your buddies like alternative comics for the simple fact that they like them, I dont believe for a second that they aren't trying to break into Caped Comics because people are meanies, If you wanna do Caped Comics you set out and make it happen no matter what people say, you have to remeber there was a time when comics were looked down on (still are to a lesser degree) but creators didn't give a shit (they were embressed alittle lets be real).
Reread what I was saying, please. I said women tend to do alternative comics and don't actually tend to go for capeds in as big numbers, I was saying that they probably do not have as many women applying for caped positions by far. But at the same time, it's well known that comics are a boy's club and while they do have less women applying, it's also pretty much well-known that women aren't taken as seirously in caped comics and responses like that in panel are part of the reason a lot of women don't even considering it. It's lack of interest combined with publicized disrespectful attitudes/comments, and a bit of preconceived notions.
If you're on a PR tour then yeah, you should probably be giving PC answers and not pissing off a faction of your ever-shrinking fanbase. Good answers? Perhaps in general, but not by Didio who has forever seemed personally offended people dare question the reboot. It's more mature to be graceful about your answers, and not be dismissive or annoyed at your customers. Jesus, they're making a big change and people have asked respectful questions. Even Gail Simone herself has said it was a valid question about female characters, but you wouldn't think it from their response.
First of all 8 books starring women is a cool amount, I wish they're is more, hopefully in the second wave. When a book stars a women it usual has it in their perspective. I find that comment strange cause you should assume that that's the case for an ongoing,
Something like Catwoman, while totally fine, is NOT made with a female perspective - it's clearly made to be cheesecake for the guys, especially with the way that Judd has described it. I don't give a damn, it's okay to have books like that, but at the same time ranting about how great and progressive you are does not click with these sort of books.
Lets not have sexist comments here. Its beneath you. No one reads comics to jerk off, nor would I assume you read comics to look at buff men in tight spandex. If a guy looked good in short shorts (Original Robin), i'm sure they would of kept that style.
It's not sexist to acknowledge when something is cheesecake, nor did I say anything is wrong with that. Catwoman has forever been sexy, and that's okay. You want a book that's 'dirty' and 'sexy', that's fine. Ain't no issue with it. But mocking a girl because she politely asked why there aren't more female books (Clearly meaning with a female-reader perspective in mind) and then applauding yourselves over cheesecake is not the way to go about it.
This was addressed before, they did ask alot of popular women creators to work on this project (go look it up its there) but they were busy. It was hinted that they'd be on the second wave. So keep your hopes up.
It's a pretty valid question because they aren't there, and hey, if that's the answer - say it like that, don't just whine; "WHO SHOULD WE HAVE HIRED". That's not cool. Say it like you have, that's reasonable. You're on a PR tour, don't be jerks, is it really that difficult? I suppose so for them. Especially the dismissive 'submit yourself' from Morrison, when DC doesn't accept submissions. I don't personally think they're going out of their way not to hire women, I've studied comics and I know that most of my female creators buddies are going into alternative comics. But in part, that's due to dismissive, rude responses and attitudes like this. While there aren't as many women going into caped comics, it's also a little ridiculous to pretend that in terms of hiring it's a bit of a boy's club. I don't agree with all her questions, but at the same time, their responses pissed off a bunch of people. There isn't anything wrong with sugar-coating when you are trying to get people to read/enjoy your things.
First of all in the relaunch the amount of Women leads and members in teams have inceased, current women creators are still working for them, they're busy and like most newer plans its hush hush till the time is right. Supergirl in a leotard? how is that worse? If its skin your worried about, the new suit shows less skin. I dont see why we have to tell our women to cover up, doesn't seem very progressive of us. Hot bisexual girl? Everyone in comics look good, everyone (unless they were made to look ugly) there is no averge looking character. Did not know she was bisexual. I dont have a problem with that nor should you. Catwoman was created to be sexy, its true to the character, she should act sexy and do sexy things, she stole the Bats heart for god sakes (hard to do).
I understand that all characters in comics are attractive, I don't have a problem with that - but I think it's sort of funny you say it's 'changing a character too much' to make them gay when compared with the huge changes we see in character like Babs and Superman. And of course, there's always room for more lesbians in DC. It's not problematic to have bi female characters, but it's problematic when it seems like you're terrified to do the opposite. It's not about telling a 'woman to cover up', but when you look at Kal-El's costume and then look at hers , and look at Kara's personality, it makes you roll your eyes. Perhaps Kara has had a personality change, but it's pretty amusing when her male equivalent has covered every square inch of skin. Independently are these things wrong? Nope, not really. But when combined with recent statements, attitude, and compared with other things, it comes across as problematic. Especially when you combine it with their statements about female characters mysteriously missing from this new DCU, and statements they've made within the years. Basically, these things aren't really anything to raise your eyebrow at individually but when you line them up it's certainly intimidating.
I don't think she was necessarily right about everything, but they sure as hell mishandled their responses in a way that came across as offensive and made me rethink how much money I want to give them. I'm basically disappointed in them, because it's this attitude that permeates comics.
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