nickzambuto's forum posts

#1 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain_batman_ftw: So the way I see it, Arrow and Ezio have almost identical skillsets. Close quarters combat, stealth, parkour, range; I think you would agree with me that there are no wildcards here. The fight will come down to simply who is better at the same things. And while I believe that each of Ezio's skills are enough to give Arrow a run for his money, at the end of the day, he doesn't hold any legitimate advantages in anything that he can really push. The Arrow universe is both more modern and more over-the-top than Assassins Creed, Oliver Queen has seen more and been tested against more than Ezio has ever experienced, despite the assassins greater age. More advanced weaponry, metahumans, ninjas, super soldiers, the Arrow universe as a whole is more dangerous than the Assassins Creed universe, meaning, by default, Oliver would need to be better than Ezio in order to survive.

Simple example; bullets. On a regular basis, Oliver is pitted against whole squads of experienced gunmen and must dodge all their bullets in close range just to survive. Meanwhile the only firearms Ezio has ever encountered are extremely primitive, basically less than prototypes for modern weapons, and he's never dodged them the same way Oliver does. As early as the very first episode, it was shown that Oliver is fast enough to run through a whole clip of assault rifle fire while chasing down one of his kidnappers. Assault rifle fire, that's about 10 steps above any projectile Ezio has ever had to deal with.

Call it "aim dodging" if you want, but the fact remains that Ezio has never displayed this speed anyway. Then to add to this raw speed, Oliver's reflexes are similarly advanced enough to sidestep lower-caliber gunshots after they are fired, even when caught by complete surprise.

There are numerous other instances of Oliver bullet timing in the show, such as against Shrapnel, Kyle Reston, and another instance against Mr. Blank, but it's difficult finding every clip on YouTube. Luckily, that's what the comics are for.

Not only does the ability to bullet time prove that Oliver is faster than Ezio, but it also means that Ezio's hidden gun weapon will be all but useless. I mean Ezio is skilled, but Oliver has dodged bullets from a real master marksman in Deadshot, so I doubt Ezio's gun can do much, doubly so considering its technical inferiority.

Oliver on the other hand? His mastery of the bow and arrow is going to create serious, serious problems for Ezio since the guy can barely dodge arrows from regular people. Oliver in the show is only a couple notches below his comic book counterpart in terms of archery, his very first feat involved lighting an arrowhead on fire and shooting it into a pile of branches half a mile away in order to make an explosion which attracted the attention of a nearby boat.

In terms of speed, Oliver is able to draw and fire his arrows rapidly enough to pin six tennis balls to the wall before any of them could finish bouncing. He can also fire up to three arrows simultaneously each with pinpoint precision, so I'm unsure if Ezio will even be capable of closing the distance.

If Ezio DOES clear the distance, he still can't beat Arrow. Oliver might be less experienced, but he has much more in-depth training from a multitude of masters, each of whom have feats in their own right. He's a master of at least seven different martial arts styles, including Ninjitsu, Wing Chun, Hapkido, Jujitsu, Eskrima, Boxing, and Wrestling, not including armed combat and pressure point/nerve strikes, and unlike Ezio, Oliver has proven his skills against other notably skilled fighters instead of just canon fodder, such as Nyssa al Ghul, who is an assassin just like Ezio, and has been trained her entire life to the point where she was shown defeating LoA ninjas when she was still a child. Keep in mind that even the fodder LoA ninjas can dodge bullets at point blank range, yet when Oliver faced Nyssa he defeated her within seconds using a submission maneuver.

And also unlike Ezio, Arrow has even tested his skills against superhumans. Solomon Grundy had Mirakuru in his system, making him stronger than an industrial forklift. He could bash through giant titanium doors, and also had superhuman speed. Yet when Oliver was motivated, he absolutely manhandled Grundy in close quarters combat, countering every move he made and outmaneuvering him at every turn. Grundy was SO powerful than despite all his skill, Oliver couldn't actually injure him with just his bare hands, but this actually just makes the feat even more impressive because it shows how large the gap between Oliver and Grundy's stats were. However Oliver was tactical enough to use his martial arts to maneuver Grundy over towards the Mirakuru centrifuge before blowing it up with an arrow, showering Grundy in various chemicals and acids, thus defeating him. I'm inclined to believe that if Ezio were in this situation, he wouldn't have been able to win.

Simply put, Oliver is superior in every category because he has been tested and proven against far more overwhelming odds and challenging opponents than Ezio has.

#2 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Krause did not have Spider Sense, Webbing, Wall Crawling, Invisibility, Venom Sting, or 6 ton strength.

No but he had the same training as Leon and much more experience, so his skill is likely superior to spider sense. Bullets are a far more dangerous projectile than webbing, wall crawling isn't really a combat ability, Krauser used flash bangs to vanish on Leon and then ambush him using stealth, and his mutated arm is even more dangerous than the venom sting. Krauser also had prep time and outfitted the entire area with traps, explosives, and robots to try and wear Leon down. This was a LOT going against Leon, and Krauser isn't much weaker than Miles.

#3 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@strawhatluffy said:

@nickzambuto said:

@strawhatluffy said:

@nickzambuto:

Not necessarily. Kind come from strength and will power among other things, not just fighting skill.

Goku trained Uub to become a better fighter but Uub already pretty much had Buus power.

Likewise Gohans power boosts never made him a better fighter, just stronger

Hence "most of the time."

Most transformations in the show do not come from or boost fighting skill...

And your point is?

The point is that having a higher Ki level doesn't mean you are a more skilled fighter like you stated before

It doesn't but more often than not the stronger fighter ends up being the better fighter as well. The Ginyu Force was Freeza's most elite squad of fighters, then Freeza himself was more skilled than everyone in the Ginyu Force, then Cell was better than Freeza, than Buu was even better than Cell.

#5 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@strawhatluffy said:

@nickzambuto:

Not necessarily. Kind come from strength and will power among other things, not just fighting skill.

Goku trained Uub to become a better fighter but Uub already pretty much had Buus power.

Likewise Gohans power boosts never made him a better fighter, just stronger

Hence "most of the time."

Most transformations in the show do not come from or boost fighting skill...

And your point is?

#6 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

But... Grodd has barely made a cameo appearance so far...

#7 Edited by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

With only manga feats, they would be lucky to defeat the Ginyu Force, and that's only because of the Daizenshuu's listed power level for Krillin as 75,000 against Freeza. Besides that, neither of them showed very much improvement since the Saiyan arc. I mean Tien did hold down Cell, but that's because the Tri-Beam itself is one of the most powerful techniques, at that time he still got oneshotted by Android 17. I mean it's definitely possible that they became very strong, they just never had the opportunity to show it because the next antagonist was always in another league.

Anime feats though? Tien solos the Ginyu Force since he already defeated Jeice and Burter simultaneously while still early on in King Kai's training. With Yamcha's help, Tien was even able to briefly overpower a Cell Jr, and later in the Buu arc Yamcha defeated Olibu almost easily who was arguably Cell-level, then immediately after he and Krillin stalemated in a spar, so major points to Krillin as well.

With anime feats, they definitely clear.

#8 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

Not necessarily. Kind come from strength and will power among other things, not just fighting skill.

Goku trained Uub to become a better fighter but Uub already pretty much had Buus power.

Likewise Gohans power boosts never made him a better fighter, just stronger

Hence "most of the time."

#9 Edited by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@thehunter: Yes. That is the inconsistency caused by filler, both Piccolo and Vegeta have one instance of being portrayed as stronger than the other. Watch the Cell Jr. fight again, Piccolo was kicking all kinds of ass and instructing everyone on what to do.

#10 Posted by nickzambuto (17331 posts) - - Show Bio

@44orhsaj: Sure jash, whatever makes you feel better.